Let's get political...

esmemehl · December 2012

Mobile: Let's get political...

I think we need to spice this board up a little. It's been a while since we really got into it.

Today, the NRA proposed putting armed guards in every school. Do you think this would solve the problems and keep our children safe? Or do we need better gun control and mental health assistance? Any thoughts welcome.

CnAnA · December 2012

Oh this should be fun. LOL I say forget the armed guards and let teachers/principals concealed carry. And in high school, if there's an 18 year old still there, let them carry. Personally, I cannot wait to get my new holster so I can carry. I feel a lot safer when I have my gun with me.

That said, yes, there does need to be more options for mental health assistance. No idea what to do or how to do it, but it needs to be there.

Mrschica · December 2012

See my FFFC.

esmemehl · December 2012

My personal initial response was.. We seriously need to put armed guards on our schools to keep our children safe? WTF. Honestly, even though it would probably deter anyone from just showing up to a school to harm children on teachers...is this really what we are coming to?

I believe in constitutional rights, but do think that weapons meant for war should not be sold to civilians. Done gun control needs to be put on place to make it harder for these people to get their hands on them.

Also, mental health needs to stop being a stigma. I think a lot of us understand what PPD can do and understand the importance of getting help without feeling like we have failed. The same should go for all people with mental illness.

irish city girl · December 2012

I think there definitely needs to be better mental health care. I work in mental health and am continually appalled. I also think that mental health is becoming the scapegoat and not all of these people are mentally ill or not treatably mentally ill.
I hate guns and would love for them to be banned. I think it would only cause more problems to allow school staff to carry weapons. You're just asking for upset students to find a way to get a hold of the gun. And no way of locking them up is going to be fool proof. Having a police liaison would be okay. We had one at my high school.

esmemehl · December 2012

Mrschica:
See my FFFC.

I totally agree that states would rather not invest on mental health. I live in Utah, were gun laws are very lax and the mentality is that we are entitled to have whatever we want. I don't know how much we invest on mental health though... Probably not that much.

ktbee33 · December 2012

mrs.ike:
Oh this should be fun. LOL I say forget the armed guards and let teachers/principals concealed carry. And in high school, if there's an 18 year old still there, let them carry. Personally, I cannot wait to get my new holster so I can carry. I feel a lot safer when I have my gun with me.

That said, yes, there does need to be more options for mental health assistance. No idea what to do or how to do it, but it needs to be there.

Woo!!!! Yeah Mrs. Ike! I'm with you!

esmemehl · December 2012

I was just thinking that we usually had a police officer at our school... Isn't there already something set in place like this... Or is it state to state.

I like what was said about mental health not always being the culprit, but do believe it is most of the time.

I absolutely do not agree that students in school should be allowed to carry weapons.

ChrisG83 · December 2012

My husband and I are responsible gun owners and I do not think banning guns will solve the problem. I think there should be stricter laws however people who want a gun so they can harm someone will find a way to get one no matter what. When theres a will theres a way. Honestly I am not even sure how the laws should be stricter and I think that is what people are struggling with. There are millions of responsible gun owners and then there are the stupid people who f**k it all up and hurt people and make it seem that anyone who owns a gun is a bad person, that bothers me.

alyson686 · December 2012

mbm1983:
Mental healthcare should be just as accessible and affordable as physical healthcare. More employers and insurance companies should offer
these kind of services.

Absolutely.

Sarelnad · December 2012

esmemehl · December 2012

ChrisG83:
My husband and I are responsible gun owners and I do not think banning guns will solve the problem. I think there should be stricter laws however people who want a gun so they can harm someone will find a way to get one no matter what. When theres a will theres a way. Honestly I am not even sure how the laws should be stricter and I think that is what people are struggling with. There are millions of responsible gun owners and then there are the stupid people who fk it all up and hurt people and make it seem that anyone who owns a gun is a bad person, that bothers me.

I'm not a gun owner and absolutely do not think anyone owning a gun is a bad person. My dad was a law enforcement officer and I grew up with guns in the home. However, do you really think someone should be able to but a weapon that can shoot 6 bullets a second? What is the point of that in any scenario? Safety or hunting? I just don't get why people are so protective of keeping theses types of weapons available to anyone.

ETA: just to clarify, the 'you' on this post is not pointing directly at you Chris...just generalizong

I had to fix some errors too...damn phone.

ellcore · December 2012

esmemehl · December 2012

ellcore:

This made me smile. Damn that spoon for making me eat that pint of ice cream!

CnAnA · December 2012

Of course the staff at schools who would choose to carry should be trained! I'm not saying pass out 9mm with the ID cards. Just allow them to carry their personal guns should they so desire. I'd even be good with having them tested before allowing them to carry. But lets be honest. Would Bad Guy have gotten to so many kids if even one of those staff members was comfortable enough with a gun to carry and be prepared to use it? Not even close.

And again, I wholeheartedly agree that mental healthcare desperately needs to be more accessible. IMO this issue is NOT about guns. Or it shouldn't be, anyway.

jlr1988 · December 2012

ellcore:

You make me happy.

Also, the title of this post made me think of Olivia newton johns "lets get physical." And now I can't get it out I my head.

Ok back to your regularly scheduled debate.

navyandviolet · December 2012

My mom is a teacher and would quit after all these years if there were guns in the schools. There are plenty a wonderful teachers who have family with issues (my brother for one) who could gain access to those guns and hurt themselves and others with those guns intended to protect. After all this is what Nancy Lanza thought her guns were for, instead she was shot 4 times in the head with them by her own child whom she once cradled as a baby.

More guns means more people who should not have guns will have access to them. Period.

I want strict gun laws. No semi automatic weapons, no more long clips. Only very limited places to buy guns, all private party sales would have to go through these strictly controlled and monitored places. Bullet sales would be closely monitored and limited. All gun owners would need to be licensed to own a gun. This would include home visits to check on gun storage safety, safety classes, thorough background checks, drug tests, Including mental illness and also including checks for persons living in the same home.You guns can be taken away and you be awarded a fine if you fail licensing requirements.

I grew up with guns, I know how to shoot, I've taken safety classes, my dad is a gun collector, I still feel this way. On a side note so does my dad, who is in law enforcement and knows that even a well trained person is much more likely to be shot with their own gun. And know first hand how difficult it is to protect yourself with a gun. The perp always has the upper hand due to the power of surprise.

To add, my cousins 4 year old son was just killed last summer when he picked up a gun that a visitor with a conceal and carry permit brought into the home. The that sweet baby shot himself. I believe the more people you give guns to=the more idiots you give guns to.

milkandhoney77 · December 2012

mrs.ike:
Oh this should be fun. LOLnbsp; I say forget the armed guards and let teachers/principals concealed carry.nbsp; And in high school, if there's an 18 year old still there, let them carry.nbsp; Personally, I cannot wait to get my new holster so I can carry.nbsp; I feel a lot safer when I have my gun with me.nbsp;
That said, yes, there does need to be more options for mental health assistance. No idea what to do or how to do it, but it needs to be there.nbsp;

Have you met an 18 year old lately?!!!!??

badkitty2012 · December 2012

navyviolet:
My mom is a teacher and would quit after all these years if there were guns in the schools. nbsp;There are plenty a wonderful teachers who have family with issues my brother for one who could gain access to those guns and hurt themselves and others with those guns intended to protect. nbsp;After all this is what Nancy Lanza thought her guns were for, instead she was shot 4 times in the head with them by her own child whom she once cradled as a baby. nbsp;More guns means more people who should not have guns will have access to them. Period.I want strict gun laws. nbsp;No semi automatic weapons, no more long clips. Only very limited places to buy guns, all private party sales would have to go through these strictly controlled and monitored places. nbsp;Bullet sales would be closely monitored and limited. All gun owners would need to benbsp;licensednbsp;to own a gun. nbsp;This would include home visits to check on gun storage safety, safety classes,nbsp;thoroughnbsp;background checks, drug tests, Including mental illness and also including checks for persons living in the same home.You guns can be taken away and you be awarded a fine if you fail licensing requirements.I grew up with guns, I know how to shoot, I've taken safety classes, my dad is a gun collector, I still feel this way. On a side note so does my dad, who is in law enforcement and knows that even a well trained person is much more likely to be shot withnbsp;theirnbsp;own gun. nbsp;And know first hand how difficult it is to protect yourself with a gun. The perp always has the upper hand due to the power of surprise.To add, my cousins 4 year old son was just killed last summer when he picked up a gun that a visitor with anbsp;concealnbsp;and carry permit brought into the home. nbsp;The that sweet baby shot himself. I believe the more people you give guns to=the more idiots you give guns to.nbsp;nbsp;

Well said. I am so sorry about your cousin. I just read a great editorial on this that called out our culture of violence and that people will kill if they want to, but boy there would be a lot less carnage with knives and baseball bats. You can't stop a killer but if they didn't have easy access to war weapons they wouldn't be as deadly.

AJKayakMomma · December 2012

I work in a gun shop, I see dozens of guns leave everyday. Quite a few people I know carry concealed, and I absolutly feel safer with them around. I know the training they need to get the permit, I even know the instuctors. I know that me or anyother employee has the right to rufuse a firearm to anyperson we feel is unfit or is acting agitated, and we have. A background check is called before any firearm is sold, handguns need a permit from the sheriff of the county you live in. Ammo cannot be sold to anyone under 18 and handgun ammo under 21. Automatic weapons are banned, no one needs full auto. Banning other guns, rifles, shotguns and handguns is just plain unconstitutional. There is nothing wrong with buying ARs. Maybe instead of blaming the guns and their sellers, we should go after the people who are selling the parts to make them fully automatic. Even if you ban them people will still find a way. My hunting rifles might not unload as quickly but can still do alot of damage. Shotguns could do more damage in a crowd than an AR, you could take out 10 people with one round of buckshot. As sad as it is tragedies will always happen as long as there are evil people in the world. No gun ban will ever stop it.

nickell5 · December 2012

ChrisG83:
My husband and I are responsible gun owners and I do not think banning guns will solve the problem. I think there should be stricter laws however people who want a gun so they can harm someone will find a way to get one no matter what. When theres a will theres a way. Honestly I am not even sure how the laws should be stricter and I think that is what people are struggling with. There are millions of responsible gun owners and then there are the stupid people who fk it all up and hurt people and make it seem that anyone who owns a gun is a bad person, that bothers me.

This.
Both DH and I have CCW permits, we are responsible gun owners. I carry almost all the time, except at work, I wish I could there, and no one would ever know. I don't do this for my self confidence, this is for the protection of us and our family. Why should you not be able to put up a fight against someone determined to cause you harm.
Illegal or not, people will get their hands on whatever kind of weapon they choose. Drugs are illegal, you don't see that problem going away anytime soon due to new laws.
As Americans, we live a pretty sheltered life. We take advantage of our freedoms and feel we are safe from harm, both from foreign enemies and those who walk the same streets. We place a lot of faith in our governments to protect us. Many of us have not, thank God, seen what can happen when those types of protections turn on their own citizens. Please don't think that I'm some conspiracy crack pot but when you look at places like Bosnia, Macedonia, those places unarmed their citizens and they were no longer able to protect themselves from the people they trusted. Horrible crimes were perpetrated against their own people.
As for mental health, there does need to be reform. But, even with increased money and services, you can't make these people take their medications or follow up with services.
Do I think there should be armed officers in a school? My only answer is that there probably would have been a different outcome to last Fridays tragedy if there would have been one present. Is it sad that we have come to that? Absolutely.

nickell5 · December 2012

There is a school district in Texas that is allowing their teachers to conceal carry in school. Their board passed this prior to last Friday. They have to go through extra training and classes.

esmemehl · December 2012

navyviolet:
My mom is a teacher and would quit after all these years if there were guns in the schools. nbsp;There are plenty a wonderful teachers who have family with issues my brother for one who could gain access to those guns and hurt themselves and others with those guns intended to protect. nbsp;After all this is what Nancy Lanza thought her guns were for, instead she was shot 4 times in the head with them by her own child whom she once cradled as a baby. nbsp;More guns means more people who should not have guns will have access to them. Period.I want strict gun laws. nbsp;No semi automatic weapons, no more long clips. Only very limited places to buy guns, all private party sales would have to go through these strictly controlled and monitored places. nbsp;Bullet sales would be closely monitored and limited. All gun owners would need to benbsp;licensednbsp;to own a gun. nbsp;This would include home visits to check on gun storage safety, safety classes,nbsp;thoroughnbsp;background checks, drug tests, Including mental illness and also including checks for persons living in the same home.You guns can be taken away and you be awarded a fine if you fail licensing requirements.I grew up with guns, I know how to shoot, I've taken safety classes, my dad is a gun collector, I still feel this way. On a side note so does my dad, who is in law enforcement and knows that even a well trained person is much more likely to be shot withnbsp;theirnbsp;own gun. nbsp;And know first hand how difficult it is to protect yourself with a gun. The perp always has the upper hand due to the power of surprise.To add, my cousins 4 year old son was just killed last summer when he picked up a gun that a visitor with anbsp;concealnbsp;and carry permit brought into the home. nbsp;The that sweet baby shot himself. I believe the more people you give guns to=the more idiots you give guns to.nbsp;nbsp;

That is so sad! My heart goes out to your family for such a tragic loss.

nealbl · December 2012

I personally do not want my children in a school where all the teachers have guns.. A teacher could snap too and that is just too many guns in one area with so many children. I don't know how I feel about gun control but I do think assault rifles should not be allowed. Why does anybody need one of those. I like the idea of a security guard in the school.

CnAnA · December 2012

amelianickel:
mrs.ike:
Oh this should be fun. LOLnbsp; I say forget the armed guards and let teachers/principals concealed carry.nbsp; And in high school, if there's an 18 year old still there, let them carry.nbsp; Personally, I cannot wait to get my new holster so I can carry.nbsp; I feel a lot safer when I have my gun with me.nbsp;
That said, yes, there does need to be more options for mental health assistance. No idea what to do or how to do it, but it needs to be there.nbsp;

Have you met an 18 year old lately?!!!!??

My 17 year old cousin is more responsible with the guns in my sisters house than some adults. Once he is of age I will have no problem with him carrying. Same goes for my 15 year old nephew. If it were legal, I'd have no issue with either one carrying now.

Sarelnad · December 2012

meganole25:
A gun in the desk of every teacher. No way. Scares the hell out of me.
An armed resource officer/police officer on each campus - totally cool with.

i agree with this

CnAnA · December 2012

What's the difference in a teacher who is trained and qualified with their gun carrying and an armed guard?

sparklem · December 2012

Have to come out of lurking for this one.... Have we all forgotten about Fort Hood so quickly? 13 dead and 29 wounded on an American army base. Clearly more guns is not the solution.

Furthermore, the people committing these horrific crimes become famous through the "news" media. This just causes more and more people to try and top what the last person did. So let's say we put armed guards in the elementary schools... do we then put them in every nursery school? How about the children's wing of the hospital? Considering how many teachers are being laid off and how many programs are being cut in schools due to lack of funding, I also doubt the resources are really there to hire armed guards.

Lastly, as a student graduating soon with a degree in education, I can assure you I have NO desire to carry a gun. Knowing that my students or colleagues were carrying guns would seriously make me reconsider my decision to become a teacher.

sparklem · December 2012

mrs.ike:
What's the difference in a teacher who is trained and qualified with their gun carrying and an armed guard?

I imagine an armed guard would be stationed near entrances and exits and would be focused on protecting the school, where a teacher would be isolated in one classroom and would be focused on teaching. I still do not support this idea though.

projectbaby2012 · December 2012

At who's expense? The NRA's? Since school's have such deep pocket budgets - not.

milkandhoney77 · December 2012

I can't believe people think a country full of guns is safer than one without. That is just batsht crazy logic to me.
But not as crazy as arming 15 y olds

milkandhoney77 · December 2012

Of course

jessican08 · December 2012

I'm all for constitutional rights but let's not forget that the 2nd amendment (when it was written) referred to people living on the frontier that was the majority of North America who used muskets that fired one shot (with horrible accuracy) and took 2 minutes to reload (if you were quick).

IMO, conceal carry is a joke. Take a few minutes to watch this segment from ABC news - unless you're specifically trained to fire and handle a weapon in high stress situations, you're kidding yourself if you think you're going to do much good with the gun you shoot off at the range every weekend.

jessican08 · December 2012

Brea16:
With a country so far in debt it can barely afford to fund education period, how in the hell can we afford police officers at every school? Seriously, who is going to pay for any of these suggestions? Even having teachers trained and armed will get expensive. I'm sorry, but that is a b.s. solution. And impossible to institute. Additionally, I agree that there is never any need for semi automatic weapons. No where near that many people would've died if all he had was a hand gun. There is never any need for a civilian to have that kind of fire power. And while I agree, this country will never be without guns, that scenario last week would've been much different without the guns. A man in China stabbed 22 kids at a school that same day as the Newtown tragedy...guess what, 22 kids lived. I also don't buy the argument that arming everyone will solve everything. Should we give everyone nuclear weapons then? Because as long as good people have them, they can stop the bad ones. Where is the logic in that?

Sure it will - then we could be a peaceful country like Israel...or Palestine...or Somalia ::please detect sarcasm::

milkandhoney77 · December 2012

https://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/21/themoregunsargument/

expectingnugget · December 2012

amelianickel:
I can't believe people think a country full of guns is safer than one without. That is just batsht crazy logic to me. But not as crazy as arming 15 y olds

Agreed. Thinking that the answer to gun violence is more guns is insane to me. This will seem crass, but hopefully Sandy Hook and Columbine are isolated incidents (although they're becoming less isolated), so to me it seems like an overcompensation to say that all teachers should be armed and that teenagers, who rip each other's hair out if some girl even looks at their boyfriend, should get to bring guns to school. It's along the lines of people on TB who last Friday said they were going to homeschool their kids and never leave their house because of the shooting. Yes, it's scary and tragic, but that's overreacting in my book. I'm also completely pro-mental health improvements.

expectingnugget · December 2012

Ummm...apparently during the NRA's speech there was another senseless shooting Pennsylvania, at least that's what this link says.

https://gawker.com/5970497/while-the-nra-was-on-tv-talking-about-the-need-for-more-guns-some-guy-was-walking-up-and-down-a-road-in-pennsylvania-shooting-people?utm_campaign=socialflow_gawker_twitter&utm_source=gawker_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

esmemehl · December 2012

amy052006:
Columbine had an armed guard.VT Tech had an armed policy force.Fort Hood was obviously crawling with military.Clearly armed guards is a bullshit response from a bunch of people that are too careless to forfeit their own misguided hobby or interests even when being stared in the face of a tragedy like this one.nbsp;nbsp;

This is a great point. I don't believe arming more people is the answer.

jillybean800 · December 2012

badkitty2012:
navyviolet:
My mom is a teacher and would quit after all these years if there were guns in the schools. nbsp;There are plenty a wonderful teachers who have family with issues my brother for one who could gain access to those guns and hurt themselves and others with those guns intended to protect. nbsp;After all this is what Nancy Lanza thought her guns were for, instead she was shot 4 times in the head with them by her own child whom she once cradled as a baby. nbsp;More guns means more people who should not have guns will have access to them. Period.I want strict gun laws. nbsp;No semi automatic weapons, no more long clips. Only very limited places to buy guns, all private party sales would have to go through these strictly controlled and monitored places. nbsp;Bullet sales would be closely monitored and limited. All gun owners would need to benbsp;licensednbsp;to own a gun. nbsp;This would include home visits to check on gun storage safety, safety classes,nbsp;thoroughnbsp;background checks, drug tests, Including mental illness and also including checks for persons living in the same home.You guns can be taken away and you be awarded a fine if you fail licensing requirements.I grew up with guns, I know how to shoot, I've taken safety classes, my dad is a gun collector, I still feel this way. On a side note so does my dad, who is in law enforcement and knows that even a well trained person is much more likely to be shot withnbsp;theirnbsp;own gun. nbsp;And know first hand how difficult it is to protect yourself with a gun. The perp always has the upper hand due to the power of surprise.To add, my cousins 4 year old son was just killed last summer when he picked up a gun that a visitor with anbsp;concealnbsp;and carry permit brought into the home. nbsp;The that sweet baby shot himself. I believe the more people you give guns to=the more idiots you give guns to.nbsp;nbsp;
Well said. I am so sorry about your cousin. I just read a great editorial on this that called out our culture of violence and that people will kill if they want to, but boy there would be a lot less carnage with knives and baseball bats. You can't stop a killer but if they didn't have easy access to war weapons they wouldn't be as deadly.

ITA. I am a teacher, and if someone made me have a gun in my home with my children just to protect my students I would go batsh!t crazy.

Oh, and how long before a disturbed student jumps me, and wrestles me to the ground, takes my gun and shoots me in the face? I teach high schoolers. They are big and I'm small.

Oh yeah, but by all means, let's add more guns to the mix. F**king stupid.

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