Pretty interesting. I wonder if anyone on here has had trouble getting their LO citizenship official. DS1 was stateless for about 3 months. DS2 was stateless for less than one month. It's amazing how many Aussies just assumed that our sons would have dual citizenship because they were born here. When DH and I tell them no they look at us like we're crazy and don't know the law.
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IDK, I can see a couple of Americans abroad who were themselves born and raised abroad with an unplanned pregnancy on their hands not even realizing that they couldn't pass on their citizenship to their kid unless one of them had actually lived in the US for a period of years. It's the United States. Everyone born there is a citizen. It doesn't enter people's minds that it wouldn't be that easy to pass the citizenship on to your kid.
Since DD was born in the US her US citizenship was obviously easy (I was already naturalized at that time so she had 2 US parents).
I got her Dutch passport last December. I had been wanting to do that but was going to wait until my passport expired since we now have to travel to San Fran to get our Dutch passports. Then the Dutch government threatened to change the laws so then I hurried up and did it (I lucked out that they were doing a pilot program in Denver for the biometrics so I didn't have to travel to San Fran, but I would have). It ended up not getting changed (yet) but at least I got it done.
i think DD can only hold two passports (dictated by Dutch government not US) until she is 18 and then she has to make a choice which sort of sucks. It would be ice if she could hold 2 passports forever since it would making studying/living in Europe (potentially anyway) so much easier. Maybe the laws will have changed in 16 years...one can always hope
It does seem sort of odd though that even when you are born abroad that you couldn't just automatically get your parents' nationality. I sort of agree that just living somewhere shouldn't necessarily give you that country's nationality (like they do here) but not to be able to get your parents' nationality seems just weird. Maybe countries will start looking at changing this since it is much more common for people to live abroad and both be of different nationalities.
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IDK, I can see a couple of Americans abroad who were themselves born and raised abroad with an unplanned pregnancy on their hands not even realizing that they couldn't pass on their citizenship to their kid unless one of them had actually lived in the US for a period of years. It's the United States. Everyone born there is a citizen. It doesn't enter people's minds that it wouldn't be that easy to pass the citizenship on to your kid.
yea true, I admit I was surprised I had to prove that I had lived in the states for a number of years in order to pass on citizenship. And weirdly it was easier for me to pass on UK citizenship to her than dh because he was born in SA and got citizenship by descent cause of his father, but wasn't allowed to pass it on unless he could proved he had lived there. He had, but it was just easier for me to pass it on cause I only had to show my naturalisation papers.
i think DD can only hold two passports (dictated by Dutch government not US) until she is 18 and then she has to make a choice which sort of sucks. It would be ice if she could hold 2 passports forever since it would making studying/living in Europe (potentially anyway) so much easier. Maybe the laws will have changed in 16 years...one can always hope
Look into this. That's what everyone told me about German-US dual citizenship, too, and I believed it until I looked into it myself and found out through official German and US government websites that no, she can keep both citizenships forever. As far as the US is concerned, I could apply for German citizenship and keep my US citizenship as well, but the Germans would make me give up the US citizenship, so I'll just keep my permanent resident status forever, I guess.
For us, getting DD's German citizenship was absolutely no problem because DH is German (Germany's citizenship is based on heritage and not where you live, which is a problem for the 3rd generation Turks living here who still don't have citizenship). Getting her US citizenship was a pain only insofar as I had to get my high school transcripts (to prove how long I'd lived in the US) and we had to go to Frankfurt and stay in a hotel because of when the appointment was. So logistical problems, not the-government-being-difficult problems.
BFP1: DD1 born April 2011 at 34w1d via unplanned c/s due to HELLP, DVT 1 week PP
BFP2: 3/18/12, blighted ovum, natural m/c @ 7w4d BFP3: DD2 born Feb 2013 at 38w4d via unplanned RCS due to uterine dehiscence
I know that people get confused in the UK because up until a few years ago (could be as long as 10 years ago, but think it was more like 7 or 8 years ago) if your child was born in the UK they could get automatic citizenship, but that is no longer the case. DS only got a passport when he was 9 months old. He had a SA birth certificate, but we weren't in any hurry because we weren't planning on going anywhere and with kids passports only valid for 5 years, it has worked out cheaper for us to wait. DS can apply for his British passport now that we have indefinite leave to remain.
I know that people get confused in the UK because up until a few years ago could be as long as 10 years ago, but think it was more like 7 or 8 years ago if your child was born in the UK they could get automatic citizenship, but that is no longer the case. DS only got a passport when he was 9 months old. He hadnbsp;anbsp;SAnbsp;birth certificate, but we weren't in any hurry because we weren't planning on going anywhere and with kids passports only valid for 5 years, it has worked out cheaper for us to wait. DS can apply for his British passport now that we have indefinite leave to remain.
The law changed at the end of 1982, I know because I was born in 1983 and when I get a new passport have to send in proof that I am a UK citizen, it's a PITA. This is one of the reasons I'm going to get Lux nationality and DD doesn't have a UK passport.
Our LO will get 3 passports! She will be eligible for UK citizenship since we are permanent residents, she will get US citizenship since both DH and I are and she will get Israeli citizenship through me, I was born there. Israeli citizenship is interesting, you don't have to be born there or ever live there bt if either parent is a citizen you are automatically. And you can't travel to Israel without your passport, my brother found this out in a really roundabout way.
Thanks for the reminder, I have been meaning to get all our paperwork in order so we can be as organised as possible!
TTC #1 since Aug 2010 * BFP Aug 2011, EDD April 16 2012 * MMC @ 7w5d, D&C @ 10w5d BFP Apr 2012, EDD Dec 19 2012 * twin h/b at 6wk, 9wk scan * Baby A lost at 12wks Baby B was my rainbow born at 36wks on Nov 27 2012
I worry about the girls, because they were born outside of Canada. So if they have their children in Canada, they will be Canadian. But if they have them outside of Canada, they won't be.
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Thanks for the article. I need to start researching citizenship issues soon. DH and I are assuming that LO will have UK (DH is UK national) and US citizenship (based on my US citizenship), but I need to figure out the details, forms, fees, etc.
As long as you lived in the US for a certain period of time your LO will have US citizenship and with your dh your LO will get the UK citizenship. You are living in the UK? You have to apply for the US one at the Embassy and get a certificate of birth abroad, and you have to apply for the UK one through the mail. If you are in the US you have to do the US one in person with both parents present and the UK one goes through the Embassy in DC.
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I worry about the girls, because they were born outside of Canada. So if they have their children in Canada, they will be Canadian. But if they have them outside of Canada, they won't be.
Does Canada allow for children of citizens to become citizens themselves even if they don't otherwise qualify if the citizen parent moves to Canada to live with the child?
I ask because as annoying as it is, if you don't make the residency requirement for the US to pass on your citizenship you can still get your kid a Green Card and move together to the US to live. The second the kid sets foot on US soil it becomes a citizen.
I worry about the girls, because they were born outside of Canada. So if they have their children in Canada, they will be Canadian. But if they have them outside of Canada, they won't be.
Does Canada allow for children of citizens to become citizens themselves even if they don't otherwise qualify if the citizen parent moves to Canada to live with the child?
I ask because as annoying as it is, if you don't make the residency requirement for the US to pass on your citizenship you can still get your kid a Green Card and move together to the US to live. The second the kid sets foot on US soil it becomes a citizen.
Not sure on that yet.
I would certainly imagine, though, that the Canadian citizen parent could bring their non-citizen child to Canada as a dependent with a route to citizenship, just like nearly any other immigration route.
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I finally got a chance to sit down and read this article. Very interesting, thank you for posting. DH and I will be TTC starting this winter/spring, so in all likeliness, we will be having another baby in the UK.
My little sister was born in Marshall islands when we lived there. She had dual citizenship (US and Marshallese) until she was 18, and had some difficulty with paperwork when she was trying to get her DL. Everything is okay now though.
I finally got a chance to sit down and read this article. Very interesting, thank you for posting. DH and I will be TTC starting this winter/spring, so in all likeliness, we will be having another baby in the UK.
My little sister was born in Marshall islands when we lived there. She had dual citizenship (US and Marshallese) until she was 18, and had some difficulty with paperwork when she was trying to get her DL. Everything is okay now though.
You and your husband are both Americans, right? Unless one of you has Indefinite Leave to Remain your baby will only have US citizenship.
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Geez, this thread made me realize that I haven't done any research into this. I'm an American, married to a south African, living in SA. Luckily, my assumption was correct: baby will be a dual citizen.
To the PP who can't believe at people don't do any research - well, it has never been an issue for any of my expat momma friends. Both of my parents were born abroad. I assumed (rightly) that the child of a us citizen who grew up in the usa would be an American.
Fyi, from the embassy website, I need to provide..
If only one parent is an American citizen, evidence of the U.S. citizen parent?s physical presence in the United States for five years, two of which are over age 14. This evidence may include, but is not limited to, elementary, middle, high school, college, university and/or graduate school transcripts, military or other government service records, employment verification letters, etc.
Minor pain in the butt, but honestly, after so many years of stupid visa requirements, us expat ladies are usually pretty good at that stuff. (I have to have a goddamn syphilis test every two years for my visa. WHY?! I live here. I don't go back to the USA often. If I caught syphilis, it would be here in SA, not abroad where I'd bring it in. Sigh.)
Publius, as long as one parent was born in Canada or naturalized in Canada, the citizenship is passed on by descent automatically. There is a one-generation limit to this rule. The foreign born grandchildren of a Canadian citizen does *not* become a citizen automatically.
Re: expat baby limbo - interesting article
yea I found that article interesting, dd wasn't stateless because she got aussie citizenship at birth cause we were permanent residents
but I find it hard to believe that people would have a baby overseas before looking into this sort of thing?
I just know I did a LOT of research when I was pg to know how to get dd's american & UK citizenship too....
IDK, I can see a couple of Americans abroad who were themselves born and raised abroad with an unplanned pregnancy on their hands not even realizing that they couldn't pass on their citizenship to their kid unless one of them had actually lived in the US for a period of years. It's the United States. Everyone born there is a citizen. It doesn't enter people's minds that it wouldn't be that easy to pass the citizenship on to your kid.
Since DD was born in the US her US citizenship was obviously easy (I was already naturalized at that time so she had 2 US parents).
I got her Dutch passport last December. I had been wanting to do that but was going to wait until my passport expired since we now have to travel to San Fran to get our Dutch passports. Then the Dutch government threatened to change the laws so then I hurried up and did it (I lucked out that they were doing a pilot program in Denver for the biometrics so I didn't have to travel to San Fran, but I would have). It ended up not getting changed (yet) but at least I got it done.
i think DD can only hold two passports (dictated by Dutch government not US) until she is 18 and then she has to make a choice which sort of sucks. It would be ice if she could hold 2 passports forever since it would making studying/living in Europe (potentially anyway) so much easier. Maybe the laws will have changed in 16 years...one can always hope
It does seem sort of odd though that even when you are born abroad that you couldn't just automatically get your parents' nationality. I sort of agree that just living somewhere shouldn't necessarily give you that country's nationality (like they do here) but not to be able to get your parents' nationality seems just weird. Maybe countries will start looking at changing this since it is much more common for people to live abroad and both be of different nationalities.Look into this. That's what everyone told me about German-US dual citizenship, too, and I believed it until I looked into it myself and found out through official German and US government websites that no, she can keep both citizenships forever. As far as the US is concerned, I could apply for German citizenship and keep my US citizenship as well, but the Germans would make me give up the US citizenship, so I'll just keep my permanent resident status forever, I guess.
For us, getting DD's German citizenship was absolutely no problem because DH is German (Germany's citizenship is based on heritage and not where you live, which is a problem for the 3rd generation Turks living here who still don't have citizenship). Getting her US citizenship was a pain only insofar as I had to get my high school transcripts (to prove how long I'd lived in the US) and we had to go to Frankfurt and stay in a hotel because of when the appointment was. So logistical problems, not the-government-being-difficult problems.
BFP1: DD1 born April 2011 at 34w1d via unplanned c/s due to HELLP, DVT 1 week PP
BFP3: DD2 born Feb 2013 at 38w4d via unplanned RCS due to uterine dehiscence
Our LO will get 3 passports! She will be eligible for UK citizenship since we are permanent residents, she will get US citizenship since both DH and I are and she will get Israeli citizenship through me, I was born there. Israeli citizenship is interesting, you don't have to be born there or ever live there bt if either parent is a citizen you are automatically. And you can't travel to Israel without your passport, my brother found this out in a really roundabout way.
Thanks for the reminder, I have been meaning to get all our paperwork in order so we can be as organised as possible!
BFP Apr 2012, EDD Dec 19 2012 * twin h/b at 6wk, 9wk scan * Baby A lost at 12wks
Baby B was my rainbow born at 36wks on Nov 27 2012
As long as you lived in the US for a certain period of time your LO will have US citizenship and with your dh your LO will get the UK citizenship. You are living in the UK? You have to apply for the US one at the Embassy and get a certificate of birth abroad, and you have to apply for the UK one through the mail. If you are in the US you have to do the US one in person with both parents present and the UK one goes through the Embassy in DC.
I ask because as annoying as it is, if you don't make the residency requirement for the US to pass on your citizenship you can still get your kid a Green Card and move together to the US to live. The second the kid sets foot on US soil it becomes a citizen.
Not sure on that yet.
I would certainly imagine, though, that the Canadian citizen parent could bring their non-citizen child to Canada as a dependent with a route to citizenship, just like nearly any other immigration route.
I finally got a chance to sit down and read this article. Very interesting, thank you for posting. DH and I will be TTC starting this winter/spring, so in all likeliness, we will be having another baby in the UK.
My little sister was born in Marshall islands when we lived there. She had dual citizenship (US and Marshallese) until she was 18, and had some difficulty with paperwork when she was trying to get her DL. Everything is okay now though.
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sibling love
You and your husband are both Americans, right? Unless one of you has Indefinite Leave to Remain your baby will only have US citizenship.
Thanks! Yes, we are both Americans. I was pretty sure that this would be the case.
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sibling love
Geez, this thread made me realize that I haven't done any research into this. I'm an American, married to a south African, living in SA. Luckily, my assumption was correct: baby will be a dual citizen.
To the PP who can't believe at people don't do any research - well, it has never been an issue for any of my expat momma friends. Both of my parents were born abroad. I assumed (rightly) that the child of a us citizen who grew up in the usa would be an American.
Fyi, from the embassy website, I need to provide..
If only one parent is an American citizen, evidence of the U.S. citizen parent?s physical presence in the United States for five years, two of which are over age 14. This evidence may include, but is not limited to, elementary, middle, high school, college, university and/or graduate school transcripts, military or other government service records, employment verification letters, etc.
Minor pain in the butt, but honestly, after so many years of stupid visa requirements, us expat ladies are usually pretty good at that stuff. (I have to have a goddamn syphilis test every two years for my visa. WHY?! I live here. I don't go back to the USA often. If I caught syphilis, it would be here in SA, not abroad where I'd bring it in. Sigh.)
Home in the bush.
Publius, as long as one parent was born in Canada or naturalized in Canada, the citizenship is passed on by descent automatically. There is a one-generation limit to this rule. The foreign born grandchildren of a Canadian citizen does *not* become a citizen automatically.
https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/publications/proof.asp#gen
Scroll down to: "first generation limit to citizenship by descent"