Maternity Leave - U.S. vs the rest of the developed world.

ReeceFamily · December 2012

Here's an interesting article on what it might cost for the U.S. to provide some sort of paid maternity leave.

https://kellymom.com/blog-post/cost-maternity-leave/

I find the graphic (showing us compared to other developed countries) really shocking.

I'm pretty liberal/progressive and believe that the wealthiest nation in the world would benefit by doing more to allow mothers (or fathers) to spend more time with new infants...but I'm not sure how it would work or how we could fund it.

What do you all think? Is this something the government should provide? Is the U.S. in the wrong, or is it in keeping with our independent/capitalistic values? Should we provide it only to working women, or also to SAHMs?

CocoR04 · December 2012

This makes me really sad. I'm struggling emotionally with coming back to work after baby. I have no choice but to come back to work, but if I had more time, perhaps it would be a bit better?

Wild_flower25 · December 2012

While it would be nice, no way this country or employers could afford it. Taxes in those countries are outrageous. People already complain here that we pay too much.

drpayne · December 2012

Wild_flower25:
While it would be nice, no way this country or employers could afford it. Taxes in those countries are outrageous. People already complain here that we pay too much.

Exactly. There is no such thing as "government funded." It's taxpayer funded.

ReeceFamily · December 2012

drpayne:
Wild_flower25:
While it would be nice, no way this country or employers could afford it. Taxes in those countries are outrageous. People already complain here that we pay too much.

Exactly. There is no such thing as "government funded." It's taxpayer funded.

I agree this would probably be politically impossible. But in reality, tax rates in Canada are actually pretty similar to the U.S., and they offer a full year of maternity leave. So it's partly about how we allocate the tax funding we do have and what our national priorities are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates

bandwife · December 2012

drpayne:
Wild_flower25:
While it would be nice, no way this country or employers could afford it. Taxes in those countries are outrageous. People already complain here that we pay too much.

Exactly. There is no such thing as "government funded." It's taxpayer funded.

True. But your government decides how your tax dollars are spent. Healthcare, family support, military, etc.

In the US maternity leave/allowance is not valued by tax payers or the government.

I'd also like to add that while there is government support in these countries a lot of them, Canada and the UK at least, do not provide a maternity allowance that is equal to your salary.

In Canada it is at most 55% of your wage for a year and that 55% is capped out at a certain income (used to be $48,000/year). Similar system here in the UK - think it is actually a bit less.

While I think the government support is nice and helpful for me the bigger benefit is that it creates a culture where there is value placed on spending the first year at home with a new baby for the mother or father. It's family centred support and policy.

Lots of families, most families, still save and make sacrifices to have a parent home for the first year, even with maternity benefits.

kenna_4 · December 2012

Wild_flower25:
While it would be nice, no way this country or employers could afford it. Taxes in those countries are outrageous. People already complain here that we pay too much.

I'm not going to get into a debate, but we had this come up on my other BMB and we figured out that our Canadian taxes really weren't that much higher than those in the U.S. when we broke things down. The money is clearly spent on different things as us Canadians have most of our health care covered and a year of mat leave. Mat. leave is the same as unemployment here, you get 80% of your pay or you max out (nobody in Ontario anyways gets more than $850 every 2 weeks). You have to work a certian amount of hours to qualify for this as well. You can split it anyway you'd like with your babies father. Many companies used to "top up" the womens pay so she'd make 100% of what she did before, but that doesn't happen as much anymore.

I think everybody should get at least 6 months off with at least some pay!

jobiann · December 2012

Wild_flower25:
While it would be nice, no way this country or employers could afford it. Taxes in those countries are outrageous. People already complain here that we pay too much.

I agree 100%. I have no issue being given 12 weeks of maternity leave...if I want more I'd be a SAHM. But at this time I want to work.

drpayne · December 2012

ReeceFamily:
drpayne:
Wild_flower25:
While it would be nice, no way this country or employers could afford it. Taxes in those countries are outrageous. People already complain here that we pay too much.

Exactly. There is no such thing as "government funded." It's taxpayer funded.
I agree this would probably be politically impossible. But in reality, tax rates in Canada are actually pretty similar to the U.S., and they offer a full year of maternity leave. So it's partly about how we allocate the tax funding we do have and what our national priorities are.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates

No argument here Big Smile Our government has no clue how to manage money, clearly. Of all of the things our government thinks people should be entitled to (ahem, cell phones), it's funny that maternity leave isn't one of them. But I won't get started on that.

I also have to point out that a lot of people get no paid maternity at all (including me). That's really only a luxury afforded to those working for bigger corporations.

ReeceFamily · December 2012

PrivacyWanted:
kenna_4:

Wild_flower25:
While it would be nice, no way this country or employers could afford it. Taxes in those countries are outrageous. People already complain here that we pay too much.

I'm not going to get into a debate, but we had this come up on my other BMB and we figured out that our Canadian taxes really weren't that much higher than those in the U.S. when we broke things down. The money is clearly spent on different things as us Canadians have most of our health care covered and a year of mat leave. Mat. leave is the same as unemployment here, you get 80% of your pay or you max out (nobody in Ontario anyways gets more than $850 every 2 weeks). You have to work a certian amount of hours to qualify for this as well. You can split it anyway you'd like with your babies father. Many companies used to "top up" the womens pay so she'd make 100% of what she did before, but that doesn't happen as much anymore.

I think everybody should get at least 6 months off with at least some pay!

And even if we can't "afford" 6 months or a year, surely we can do better. Some states like CA and NJ offer disability payments for a certain period (60% for 4 weeks prior to EDD, 6-8 weeks after, and then 50% for an additional 6 as family bonding time). While CA may be a state with a messed up budget system, I've yet to hear anyone blame it on the 16 weeks of disability pay new moms get. And we all pay into CASDI, and it's really not that much per paycheck

Totally agree - I'm not necessarily advocating for 100% paid leave for everyone...but I think we could find some way to do better by our kids than we currently are. I'm grateful to live in CA for this pregnancy.

bennikki · December 2012

I think our system works just fine in that it puts the responsibility on the citizen. I've saved money, paid for a short term disability package, and prepared for this child, so we would be more than comfortable whether I go back to work or not. We live in a home we can comfortably afford with only one of us working, and we budget each month, so we can live debt free (with the exception of our mortgage). I wouldn't have gone off birth control if I hadn't taken these steps, and I don't agree with my tax dollars paying for someone's inability to plan or prepare for a child. Are there special cases, absolutely, but we already have programs to help people with that such as WIC, medicaid/medicare, supplemental housing, and EBT/Snap food programs. I don't think the answer is more unfunded government programs. Having a child is an adult decision, and if you think you're adult enough to make it, then you have to put your big girl pants on and make the tough cuts to your lifestyle.

Now, I would agree with a program where employees (not the employer) can opt to put money in a program such as the unemployment insurance program mandated by the states (employers currently make the payments based on an experience rating up to a max. gross wage per employee). The money can grow, and it can move with them from job to job, and if/when they take a maternity leave, they can withdraw the money just as they would if they were laid off, but in my experience as an accountant, way too many people live paycheck to paycheck and the idea of saving or cutting back is inconceivable for them, so I don't know how many would participate.

Also, as a woman who suffers from infertility, I could not accept other IF women's tax dollars to fund my lifestyle for a year when they could never experience it.

Smiley-1980 · December 2012

I am in Canada and I just could not imagine going back to work so soon. I will get 55% of my pay plus the child care benefit which is $100 per month and then there is another benefit that depends on how much money you make so I'm not sure if Ill get that or not. We figured it out that DH only has to make $400 extra per month for us to be making exactly what we bring home now. DH's job is very flexible with overtime so that will be very easy for him to do. We will also be saving a lot of money with me being home and not commuting to work since I drive over an hour each way normally. My SIL said they were actually better off financially with her being on maternity leave.

Personally I have always wanted to be a SAHM over working so it's ideal for me.

bandwife · December 2012

bennikki:
I think our system works just fine in that it puts the responsibility on the citizen. ....
Also, as a woman who suffers from infertility, I could not accept other IF women's tax dollars to fund my lifestyle for a year when they could never experience it.

Yep, this is why you don't have maternity leave in the US.

The US may be in that developed nation graph but the social and cultural expectations for families are miles away from those countries with gov funded maternity.

Grew up in Canada, have lived in the US and now I'm in the UK.

I have absolutely no problem with, in fact I am happy to, pay taxes that support other parents staying at home or people that are unable to work. Or healthcare for everyone.

When I help my neighbour I create a better community to live in.

Necack · December 2012

bennikki:
I think our system works just fine in that it puts the responsibility on the citizen. I've saved money, paid for a short term disability package, and prepared for this child, so we would be more than comfortable whether I go back to work or not. We live in a home we can comfortably afford with only one of us working, and we budget each month, so we can live debt free (with the exception of our mortgage). I wouldn't have gone off birth control if I hadn't taken these steps, and I don't agree with my tax dollars paying for someone's inability to plan or prepare for a child. Are there special cases, absolutely, but we already have programs to help people with that such as WIC, medicaid/medicare, supplemental housing, and EBT/Snap food programs. I don't think the answer is more unfunded government programs. Having a child is an adult decision, and if you think you're adult enough to make it, then you have to put your big girl pants on and make the tough cuts to your lifestyle.
Now, I would agree with a program where employees (not the employer) can opt to put money in a program such as the unemployment insurance program mandated by the states (employers currently make the payments based on an experience rating up to a max. gross wage per employee). The money can grow, and it can move with them from job to job, and if/when they take a maternity leave, they can withdraw the money just as they would if they were laid off, but in my experience as an accountant, way too many people live paycheck to paycheck and the idea of saving or cutting back is inconceivable for them, so I don't know how many would participate.

Amen! It's time for people in this country to grow up and behave as adults and stop expecting the government to hand them everything. Time to take responsibility for our actions and make the required sacrifices. Even if your LO is a surprise, you get 9 months to prepare and sacrifice and change your lifestyle to make things work.

By the way, OP, I hope you weren't referring to the US as the wealthiest country. Have you seen our national debt lately? Our country does not have a positive net worth.

ReeceFamily · December 2012

Necack:
bennikki:
I think our system works just fine in that it puts the responsibility on the citizen. I've saved money, paid for a short term disability package, and prepared for this child, so we would be more than comfortable whether I go back to work or not. We live in a home we can comfortably afford with only one of us working, and we budget each month, so we can live debt free (with the exception of our mortgage). I wouldn't have gone off birth control if I hadn't taken these steps, and I don't agree with my tax dollars paying for someone's inability to plan or prepare for a child. Are there special cases, absolutely, but we already have programs to help people with that such as WIC, medicaid/medicare, supplemental housing, and EBT/Snap food programs. I don't think the answer is more unfunded government programs. Having a child is an adult decision, and if you think you're adult enough to make it, then you have to put your big girl pants on and make the tough cuts to your lifestyle.
Now, I would agree with a program where employees (not the employer) can opt to put money in a program such as the unemployment insurance program mandated by the states (employers currently make the payments based on an experience rating up to a max. gross wage per employee). The money can grow, and it can move with them from job to job, and if/when they take a maternity leave, they can withdraw the money just as they would if they were laid off, but in my experience as an accountant, way too many people live paycheck to paycheck and the idea of saving or cutting back is inconceivable for them, so I don't know how many would participate.
Amen! It's time for people in this country to grow up and behave as adults and stop expecting the government to hand them everything. Time to take responsibility for our actions and make the required sacrifices. Even if your LO is a surprise, you get 9 months to prepare and sacrifice and change your lifestyle to make things work.
By the way, OP, I hope you weren't referring to the US as the wealthiest country. Have you seen our national debt lately? Our country does not have a positive net worth.

I totally understand why some people don't support the idea of maternity leave, and I'm interested to hear well-thought-out arguments against it. But I find it really offensive to suggest that I'm not a grown up because I do see societal value in helping people raise their children. I have been working and paying taxes since I was 18, I pay high taxes as a resident of California...and maternity care for me and others is one way I'd like to see my taxes spent. The name calling has to stop in this country, and we all need to learn to listen to all sides of an argument and compromise.

I can buy that the U.S. is not the wealthiest nation, but we still rank up there pretty high.

court115 · December 2012

drpayne:
Our government has no clue how to manage money, clearly. Of all of the things our government thinks people should be entitled to (ahem, cell phones), it's funny that maternity leave isn't one of them. But I won't get started on that.
I also have to point out that a lot of people get no paid maternity at all (including me). That's really only a luxury afforded to those working for bigger corporations.

This.

Also, the only thing that really bothers me are people that sort of "play" the welfare system. My H and I are responsible. We've both have had jobs and paid taxes since we were 16. It's not the end of the world that I have to take an unpaid leave but we could use a little extra help during those weeks. We don't qualify. We aren't even close.

However, he has a cousin who is the same age as we are who just had a baby. She has never worked a day in her life - nor does she plan to - and lives off of welfare, WIC and purchase of care (free daycare). This is where our system annoys me. It almost feels as though we are being punished for being responsible yet she is being rewarded for being irresponsible.

So while I agree with everyone who says "put your big girl panties on and deal with it", I think that everyone should be held to the same standards. Don't get me wrong - there are people who legitimately need the help of welfare, WIC, purchase of care, etc. and I strongly believe that those people should get that help that they need. But then I think about someone like H's deadbeat cousin and I just get mad about it.

weddinginbloom · December 2012

I find it ironic that the U.S. claims to be so pro-family but doesn?t support new families policy-wise. It?s crazy with the big push on women to breastfeed that there is no government-mandated paid maternity leave to support such a goal. Doing the best for your children should not just be for the rich who can afford time off for mom. For me it boils down to does paid maternity leave make families and society better off??and I say yes! I think following the model of Canada, for instance, and tacking it onto unemployment or disability insurance is a reasonable way to do it. How about a few weeks as a start at bare minimum?!! I think that welfare fraud is a different issue that happens in Canada and other countries too.

st.augbride · December 2012

Wow, that's just so sad and pathetic. My son came early, and if I didn't have a ton of leave saved up and a really understanding boss, I just don't know what I would have done. I had 6 months with him and there was no way we were ready before then. This time I have less leave, but will still have about 4 months (again b/c my boss rocks and she lets me stretch it out by working from home one day per week). I am just hoping we don't face special needs this round since at "4 months" my son was 2.5 months adjusted age and not even close to ready for daycare! Luckily, we have a great home daycare now, so I will hopefully feel more comfortable leaving #2 there then.

st.augbride · December 2012

drpayne:

Wild_flower25:
While it would be nice, no way this country or employers could afford it. Taxes in those countries are outrageous. People already complain here that we pay too much.

Exactly. There is no such thing as "government funded." It's taxpayer funded.

Yes, but our country also wastes money on a lot of crapola in my opinion, and yet we cite family values and prioritizing family left and right. Seems pretty hypocritical to me. It's not a matter of increased taxes as much as it is a matter of better fiscal management by an out-of-control, spend-happy government.

2PuppiesHon · December 2012

weddinginbloom:
I find it ironic that the U.S. claims to be so pro-family but doesn?t support new families policy-wise. It?s crazy with the big push on women to breastfeed that there is no government-mandated paid maternity leave to support such a goal. Doing the best for your children should not just be for the rich who can afford time off for mom. For me it boils down to does paid maternity leave make families and society better off??and I say yes! I think following the model of Canada, for instance, and tacking it onto unemployment or disability insurance is a reasonable way to do it. How about a few weeks as a start at bare minimum?!! I think that welfare fraud is a different issue that happens in Canada and other countries too.

This exactly!

dulcemariamar1 · December 2012

bandwife:
drpayne:

Wild_flower25:
While it would be nice, no way this country or employers could afford it. Taxes in those countries are outrageous. People already complain here that we pay too much.

Exactly. There is no such thing as "government funded." It's taxpayer funded.

True. But your government decides how your tax dollars are spent. Healthcare, family support, military, etc.

In the US maternity leave/allowance is not valued by tax payers or the government.

I'd also like to add that while there is government support in these countries a lot of them, Canada and the UK at least, do not provide a maternity allowance that is equal to your salary.

In Canada it is at most 55% of your wage for a year and that 55% is capped out at a certain income (used to be $48,000/year). Similar system here in the UK - think it is actually a bit less.

While I think the government support is nice and helpful for me the bigger benefit is that it creates a culture where there is value placed on spending the first year at home with a new baby for the mother or father. It's family centred support and policy.

Lots of families, most families, still save and make sacrifices to have a parent home for the first year, even with maternity benefits.

Yes This. If I had to sit through the election and having to hear everyone talking about "family values" then I dont understand why people cant get behind ML. I dont think we need a year off but at least 3-4 months for the mom to recover and to bond with their LO.

sekura · December 2012

bennikki:
I think our system works just fine in that it puts the responsibility on the citizen. I've saved money, paid for a short term disability package, and prepared for this child, so we would be more than comfortable whether I go back to work or not. We live in a home we can comfortably afford with only one of us working, and we budget each month, so we can live debt free (with the exception of our mortgage). I wouldn't have gone off birth control if I hadn't taken these steps, and I don't agree with my tax dollars paying for someone's inability to plan or prepare for a child. Are there special cases, absolutely, but we already have programs to help people with that such as WIC, medicaid/medicare, supplemental housing, and EBT/Snap food programs. I don't think the answer is more unfunded government programs. Having a child is an adult decision, and if you think you're adult enough to make it, then you have to put your big girl pants on and make the tough cuts to your lifestyle.
Now, I would agree with a program where employees (not the employer) can opt to put money in a program such as the unemployment insurance program mandated by the states (employers currently make the payments based on an experience rating up to a max. gross wage per employee). The money can grow, and it can move with them from job to job, and if/when they take a maternity leave, they can withdraw the money just as they would if they were laid off, but in my experience as an accountant, way too many people live paycheck to paycheck and the idea of saving or cutting back is inconceivable for them, so I don't know how many would participate.
Also, as a woman who suffers from infertility, I could not accept other IF women's tax dollars to fund my lifestyle for a year when they could never experience it.

Great thoughts! I agree--you can plan for money during maternity leave just as you (should) plan for retirement. The US provides for anyone to take job-protected time off with FMLA--you just don't necessarily get free money to do it. Each of us has our own financial priorities (for some of us its paying for IF, or cancer, or an ailing relative)--why should we have a one-size-fits-all gov't approach?

Bride-hilda · December 2012

PrivacyWanted:
kenna_4:

Wild_flower25:
While it would be nice, no way this country or employers could afford it. Taxes in those countries are outrageous. People already complain here that we pay too much.

I'm not going to get into a debate, but we had this come up on my other BMB and we figured out that our Canadian taxes really weren't that much higher than those in the U.S. when we broke things down. The money is clearly spent on different things as us Canadians have most of our health care covered and a year of mat leave. Mat. leave is the same as unemployment here, you get 80% of your pay or you max out (nobody in Ontario anyways gets more than $850 every 2 weeks). You have to work a certian amount of hours to qualify for this as well. You can split it anyway you'd like with your babies father. Many companies used to "top up" the womens pay so she'd make 100% of what she did before, but that doesn't happen as much anymore.

I think everybody should get at least 6 months off with at least some pay!

And even if we can't "afford" 6 months or a year, surely we can do better. Some states like CA and NJ offer disability payments for a certain period (60% for 4 weeks prior to EDD, 6-8 weeks after, and then 50% for an additional 6 as family bonding time). While CA may be a state with a messed up budget system, I've yet to hear anyone blame it on the 16 weeks of disability pay new moms get. And we all pay into CASDI, and it's really not that much per paycheck

What!?!? How come every time someone talks about CA mat leave its always different! Ohhhhhhhhh, wait, it's because I haven't called state disability yet!!! Omg. I need to!

Want a personalized experience?

Maternity Leave - U.S. vs the rest of the developed world.

Re: Maternity Leave - U.S. vs the rest of the developed world.

Choose Another Board

Search Boards