I am finally calm enough to tell you all what happened in the Ilumine HH
Ilumine
member
I know I mentioned the incident from 6 weeks ago, where SS said that the only reason why I got a new car and phone (after stating that he deserves his own car because we are equal in this house) is because I "put out".
This was said about me not 2 hours after I ran all over town looking for specific book he needed for school the next day (I ONLY did that because it truely was not SS's fault).
Now, I was not even part of that conversation (not even in the same room), but it was purposefully said loud enough to be heard throughout the house. He knew I heard and DH called him on it at once.
I told DH that until I got both an apology and change of attitude, I would no longer do a single thing for his son. That was the ONLY way I would be able to handle living in the same house with his very rude, self-centered and entitle 17 son.
And I didnt and my resentment of both SS and DH dropped exponentially. Becauase I no longer had to DO things for people who did not appreciate me. DH even commented twice about all I actually DID and thanked me for it.
FF to two weeks before Thanksgiving. SS comes home on Thursday and tells us that his Satruday HomeComing Dance is formal. Granted, he should have realized this earlier, but both DH and I (from two different states) never had formal homecoming dances so it never crossed OUR minds that it would be formal. SS does not have formal clothes.
DH begs me to take SS shopping because he is teaching TWO online classes and needs to grade 31 papers by Saturday Morning. I do it for my DH. SS gets his new slacks, shirt and jacket. Then we take him to pick up his GF and then onto the Dinner and the dance. We both get thank yous.
Now, SS's ONLY chore (which he gets paid for) is to load and unload the dishwasher. He did not do his one chore on Monday because we got takeout. ALL DH did was remind SS that he needs to remember to turn on the dishwasher even if there arent dinner dishes.
And as usual, SS flips out. DH, who has been much FIRMER with SS when he DOES flip out, calmly, quietly tells SS to either calm down, because asking him to remember to start the dishwasher is not somethign big enough to scream about, or to go to his room.
SS goes to his room and then comes out TWICE to continue to scream at DH. After the second time coming out DH tells SS that he either goes to room, calms down or he will be put on restriction for a week because his TT is not going to be tolerated.
SS goes to his room, slamms the door so hard a picture falls off the wall and shatters and THEN we hear things being slammed around.
DH goes into his room to tell him that if he breaks anything, the replacement will come out of his money and that he will be restricted to the home and do massive chores to EARN the money to replace things (SS refuses to get a job and I refuse to drive him anywhere....).
DH opens the door and SS immediately comes swinging at him with his 7lb handweight. DH grabs the boy long enough to get the handweight out of his hand and grab the rest of theh weights to bring them out of the room. Not more than 60 seconds.
ANd then DH tells him that because of that stunt, he now has a month long restriction.
SO SS decides that if he is getting punished, we would. He called the sheriff's office and told them that DH strangled him.
So on Tuesday night, I get a visit and interrogation by the cops. And on Wednsday morning, Monkey and I get a visit and interrogation from CPS.
Now, we have had SS evaluated by:
1) Neuropsychiatrist (he is considered the best in the state of FL and is used by the courts throughout the state).
2) Two Psychiatrists
3) Three Therapsist
They all say that he does not have a psychological diagnosis, but that his anger issues are learned. ALL of them have given DH different tactics to use with SS, but the majority basically stated that we needed to be firm with the behavioral modification side of it. DH choose to go the soft route....
You know like J&A - giving SS more LOVE and HUGS and ATTENTION and talk through outburst. We were never allowed to hold his actions against him, etc. We were supposed to model how to handle frustrations...
Yeah...5 years later his outbursts may have lessened in number but the strenght of the outburst (be it physical or emoitonal) just got stronger and nastier.
So, I now have an open investigation (because when CPS interviewed SS he was still angry and justified his actions with a long list of negative things he THINKS we have done to him, like bringing up the belief that DH spanked SS until he bled. Mind you even today he will tell you that occurred when he was 5 - he told this to the CPS worker that he remembers it because he was in kindergarden wiht a specific teacher - but DH did not see SS the entire year he wsa 5. DH was in Germany and SS was in Georgia).
As of yesterday, our caseworker thinks the case will be closed/dropped by Monday. We gave her all of SS's medical notes, to include the information on where he attacked his mother in the moving car, where he attacked kids at sc hool, etc.
I am not sure the exact verbiage, but basically the case is not only being closed, but it will state that we ARE NOT at fault, but that it was a malicious attempt by SS to get us in trouble.
Which both of us need if either of us want to get jobs in our fields.
For the first time in the 5 years we have had SS, I told DH that wanted him gone. The two times I have seperated from DH, I always told him that I would never come between DH and his son.
But damn it, why should MY life and DD's life be turned upside down because DH and SS cannot act appropriately? Why should I loose my house, my stuff, my dogs and cat and the abilty to be a SAHM because SS feels that he should get what HE wants, when HE wants it, without any responsibility on HIS shoulders.
Re: I am finally calm enough to tell you all what happened in the Ilumine HH
Anyway, after he called the sheriff's office, he called his mother and told her everything.
Now, the normal response from BM is to call DH and tell him that she is coming to get SS and DH responds with a NO...you want him you go through the courts and we shall see what a judge says. And that ends it because she knows we have enough legal ammunition to keep SS.
But surprisingly to SS, she did not do that this time because, after hearing what he did in response to such a begning request, she knows that THIS is what she will get. And she doesnt want him.
And she told DH that she wont be taking him back.
So now my life is in flux.
DH has imposed some major ass restrictions and punishements on SS. But to me, its too little too late. And given neither of us have jobs yet (DH has a pension and is teaching online courses, but that is not enough), I am stuck.
I have given DH until the New Year to get our house and marriage back on track.
But I did send out two resume's for jobs back in NY, where my parents live. Neither make a ton of money, but I can live with my parents until I save enough to buy a small condo/town house. I walked into my marriage with $60,000. $20,000 went into our house and the rest went into our savings. I will take that back (only that) and child support. I should be able to survive on that, especially since DD will have TRICARE health care.
So folks, this is a cautionary tale on what happens if you allow one parent to NOT parent. Being from a divorced family or having a poor bio-parent does not mean that you should not have REASONABLE EXPECTATIONS of actions and reactions.
If you dont, you will raise selfish, rude, mean, entitled, adults.
Speaking as someone who has had you and monkey come stay in their house, I am f**cking raging for you. That spiteful little sh!t
OMG it would take everything in me not to knock his head off.
OMG Illumine I am so sorry that happened to you. I am so sorry that Monkey has to be a witness to this.
OP's see the pics of Monkey but I know firsthand what an adorable sweet little girl she is. And what a lovely caring mother you are.
I'm almost in tears for you here and I am angry for you. I am also devastated for your DH, jeeze what a thing to happen.
Thank you honey. You have no idea how much that means. I do not talk to my family about my issues with SS or DH because I have never wanted to sour their relationships, especially if we (ie DH and I) work things out.
And I have stopped coming here because I either get newbies who (totally understandably) dont know the whole story and give unsupportive responses OR I get the same old from the oldtimers who have skewered views (as if my going to professionals and trying the professional's ways when the oldtimer's love em more because they are the poor innocent who didnt ask for Mommy and Daddy to divorce DIDNT work was somehow the WRONG thing to do).
But I think that given my responses to others needs clarification. I wont put up with the whinning and handwringing from people when their issues (oh woes is me, I didnt get the level of validation I think I should get) are nothing compared to others OR when others refuse to alter THEIR actions in anyway, but expect changes from others.
I have literally been to 6 different professionals in 5 years and that does not include the marriage counselors. I can honestly say I have tried everything and anything to make things work.
And I get snarky at people who havent tried.
Holy Effing Crap!
I can not.... CAN NOT, imagine what you must be feeling. I am beyond sorry this has happened.
Does he have any idea what a $hitstorm he has caused.
You and your little cutie pie monkey are in my thoughts and prayers. I hope you are able to get your life back one way or the other.
I'm just flabbergasted!
I'm so sorry this happened to you. We had something similar recently. My 11 SS told some things to the school about how he was being treated that were false. He has bipolar, ODD, ADHD. CPS came out and interviewed us with a cop present. While they were there, he recanted everything he had previously told them. They did a follow up phone call but are not pursing any further investigation. That was very stressful and I started counseling after that.
Take care of yourself and your DD. Keep yourselves safe. If your DH feels he can help in that by getting your SS MAJOR help, possibly in an inpatient facility of some sort, fantastic. He needs to be on the same page. You need to be a priority now. You've earned that ten times over.
Also, if your SS doesn't get help, he's going down a scary path. His anger issues could come to the surface toward his future wife or kids. He could do something to land himself in jail. Your DH and BM need to see this.
oh my gosh illumine!! if I were in your position I would leave until SS was 18 and could be kicked out on his little punk a$$. and yes your DH should have called the cops on him when he took a swing at him with the weight. clearly the behavior modification and sweet talks aren't working. I would have let him be carted off to jail.
hugs. I hope you get everything figured out soon!
illumne,
I'm one of the old timers, I'm sure you recognize me. I have followed your story almost from the beginning. I've never agreed w/ the way your H has handled things, I also don't think the professionals have a real idea of what YOU specifically deal with on daily basis.
I think your SS (totally on the armchair psych degree) has boarderline personality disorder.
1. My DD has it.
2. The newest thinking it's a trauma (real or percieved) based pyschosis therefore w/ extensive therapy and treatment it can be over come.
Walking on Eggshells, is a book I read when my DD was diagnosed.
Your SS is a master manipulater, I think you need to take video of the meltdowns, TT and violent behavior and this is shown to the psychaistrists.
But this is only IF you still have enough energy to give it one last push.
I had to have my DD committed to a behavior health facility for 2 weeks, then we began intense and extensive therapy both indiviually and together.
2 years later, my DD finally has the emotional tools and the meds to maintain calm, and realize not everything is about her.
I know that commiting a child is a huge!! emotional and draining experience. But the 2 weeks in the facility really equaled about 6-9 months of intense weekly therapy.
I also got the much needed respite and started to learn to detach myself from owning her emotional health and then learned to support without losing myself.
We both learned to detach from each other and we are much closer now because of it.
PM or page me.
It's an option but if you can get a least 1 doctor or social worker on your side to really understand the warzone you live in, the professionals can actually help him.
You and most parents just don't have the tools you need a professional team to hand this extreme pressure and manipulations.
Ugh, my only question is when does he turn 18?
I hate to say it, but it seems the hard way is the only way he's going to learn.
My ex's inability to not parent his kids did the same thing for his now adult children, and was a large factor that destroyed our marriage.
I am so sorry you are going thru this Illumine. It is not fair, as I know you have tried. I know what you must be feeling.
In a way, I am so thankful becuase my situation could have potentially gotten this bad as well.
As for the "professionals" - they are wrong. They have to be. This is not normal behavior. I read once that narcissists and other people with similar disorders and behaviors have the ability to con even the mental health professionals. They learn what to say and not to say, and they play the system in their favor. It's highly likely that he is doing this and is extremely good at it.
I'd kick him out, or I'd leave. There is no way I'd subject my DD to that. You and Monkey deserve better. Even if it's temporary. Let your DH deal with it. Tell him when SS is out, let you know and maybe you can work things out. That's what I would do, but that is so easy for me to say right now.
I'm thinking about you and I know you'll work it out. Your smart. You'll do what's right and best.
T&P's your way.
Um, I'd be hard pressed to allow him to stay after he turned 18 and graduated, if mom won't take him. I am soooo pissed for you. As someone who is required to have a clean background check for what my H and I do for a living, I can certainly understand being absolutely livid at these false allegations and having a smudge from CPS on your record. The kid is past the point of needing 'love and hugs' to fix this. I'm with you totally on that one.
Side note - SS has a gf now?? I remember you saying when you guys were in the UK that no one would even bother with him because he had no idea how to speak to a girl or treat one. Things have changed I see. Has having a GF set things off in crazy land more do you think? Or is this just par the course he runs?
I'm sorry you and Monkey are having to deal with this. I don't blame you one bit for anything you are feeling. :-( ((hugs))
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Thank you for your support.
Right now, we are all stuck.
1) We have legal custody and if BM doesnt want him we cannot force her to take him and we cannot kick him out until he is 18. And given how the courts are, we would probably have to keep him until he graduates if he presses the point. And given BM, he would.
2) Until I have a job (be it here or anywhere else in the US) I am hardpressed to move. If DH had a full time job, I could concievably move out too. But his retirement pension doesnt cover the expenses for one household. And I am not angry or evil enough to force him to cover two full households.
3) After what happened in January (where SS went after DD for the first and only time) DH HAS actually been 90% better dealing with SS in a firm and appropriate manner. He may tiptoe around SS to not CAUSE a Temper Tantrum, but if there is one, he punishes.
He HAS been doing exactly what I asked of him back then. And to be honest, the number of incidents has dropped in an amazing manner. So much so, I bragged on DH and SS in August.
It makes it very hard for me to punish DH by leaving.
4) And SS has been very very very good at not including me in his TTs. That comment two months ago did not include me. I was not even in the room. So he HAS been keeping to the "promise" of keeping us out of it.
Even now, he will swear that he didnt call the cops to spite me, that it was all about DH "strangling him". Because he didnt MEAN to include me, he should not be punished for affecting DD and I.
And while I cannot keep DD around this craziness, SS has ALSO been keeping to his promises when it concerns DD and I. He just cannot grasp (outside of his self-centered little world) that his actions DO affect others.
So I am stuck.
and DH will not commit SS. My marriage would be over if I were to force that issue and it would be over before I had MY ducks in a row.
I agree that you cannot punish DH if he does what you ask but how certain are you that DD is safe there? Isn't this a whole new level of crazy or is there more that I have not heard about? Swinging at your husband with a heavy object is scary crap and it is great if DH punishes him but that means he is home more with you and monkey and he is angry and has no real impulse control. At this point punishing him is only serving the purpose of telling him your DH means business but it is not going to change his behavior with him wanting to change IMO.
I wish I had some great answers but I really do not except for you to know that I have been there in some level. I hate that when I was going through all my crap with SD you and a few others were dealing with youger kid crap and hoping you never got to the point of needing to kick out a barely 18yo and yet you are here. It sucks and I know you have put everything into not being here. And while I have often thought you were over strict I have always admired your consistency and always believed you would behave the same if it was Monkey as you did/do for SS and that you always want the best for him.
Have you and DH discussed what happens at 18 and/or graduation? And BTW I do not know about the laws near you but the week she turned 18 and pulled the "I am an adult and can do what I want" crap, a cop told SD that she is an adult and we do not have to let her come home. And she got the same speech from the doctors in the hospital too. Good luck, I am always rooting for you.
He could very well have an underlying psychological issue. But he refuses to go to therapy. As in he told us up front that he would not get into the car and if we tricked him, he would not say a single word in the office.
Which brings us back to my first point. We legally cannot kick him out for another 10 months. So the only threat we have is if he pulls physical stunt again.
At that point, one of us (me me me) can call the cops on him. And (isnt it funny how the law works) THEN, he will be treated as an adult.
He swore to DH that he will stay in his room and not say a thing to us ever again, no matter how angry he gets.
THe thing is, he isnt learning how to deal with his issues then. So in 2 school years, he is oiut in the real world. God help his first RA or boss.
A few months ago, DH and SS started talking about colleges. SS ONLY wants to go to Georgia Tech to go into computer programing. Mind you, he has never once done a single programing program EVER. Even when DH offered to sit down and walk through a simple program.
Well, SS realized that his grades and lack of extra-cirriculars precluded his acceptance into GT as a freshman. So HE decided that HE would be going to the local community college and live with US for freshman year. (this was all prompted by BM).
I only addressed this with DH once, when I reminded him that he promised me that SS would be out after graduation. He looked at me and said "what can I do? He needs to do a community college".
At that point, I found the information for the local community college near BM and a technical community college near SD (where they have those all-inclusive dorm like apartments that a student rents a room w/ensuite and share the kitchen). I also found a couple smaller Georgia schools that SS could get into, that he could go to for a year/two and then transfer into GT.
The thing is, as the son of a GA resident, he has access to the Hope Scholoarship that will pay for his entire tuition. He does NOT get that here in FL because FL's scholarship program is different and DH did not do the proper paperwork.
Anywho. After this past incident, I straight out told DH that even if I stay and SS "gets better" he is out of here at graduation. The underlying beliefs and entitlements will not have gone away, it was clear with the last conversation when he stated that I have no right to be upset by having CPS at my door because he didnt intend for it to affect me, so he wont apologize again.
I also stated that since he STILL refuses to get a *** job and that the onloy way he would be able to go to a local community college HERE is if DH buys him a car, pays for his insurance and gas money ON TOP OF his college expenses (which we had previous agreed would not happen - the rule for SD and DD is that they pay their way through college and we provide assistance AFTER the fact, if they get a 3.0).
DH hemmed and hawed a bit, but he knows I am serious. Hell, he knows I sent out those two job apps to NY. He has been kissing my ass (he steam cleaned the sofas for me without my asking).
I have already talked to my parents. If SS has one more outburst; DD, my dog and the cat and I get into the mini and drive north. I may have been a bit Passive-Agressive with this. I have a travel bag packed and right out in the open in my bedroom. I caught DH lookiing at it the other day.
I also know that DH reiterated to SS just last night that if there is any tantrums, cops will be called because "I will choose my wife and daughter over my *** son".
So it is a waiting game...me waiting to see if SS pulls another stunt OR gets his act together before I get a job.
The thing is, I do love my husband. I cannot understand how my resentment of HIS actions (or lack there of) have not totally destroyed my love.
I know that it is because I understand and sympathize for his background. Hell, I just spent extened time with his mother and sisters. I have heard the stories (and hurt) from his uncles (his father's brothers).
I recognize how bad of a BM exwife was/is.
So that, plus how GOOD our relationship is when it is not about SS, how amazing and different DH is with SD and DD, and the man he is with everyone else, I dont want to loose him.
I want my DD to have her parents together because when SS is not in the house, her parents have a marriage that she should emulate and look for. One of communication (we can talk about and through everything but SS), smart compromises, laughter, empathy, and unasked for support (ie we see what the other needs and we help out without waiting to be asked).
ARGGG
They investigated because we have a 4 yo in the house.
This is exactly what I thought about the situation described. I am a newbie so I do not know the whole story. I just see men like this young man all the time through my husband's job. My dh is the director of a homeless mission that doubles as a rehab for men with substance abuse problems(the men in the program actually serve and "run" the soup kitchen portion of the mission...it's part of their rehab and learning responsibility). So many of these men have stunted attitudes toward life like the OP's SS. Nobody owes them anything, but they act like the world does. Many of the men, change their attitudes throughout the 11 month program(unfortunately not all), mainly b/c of the "tough love" that is provided there.
Perhaps SS needs a rude awakening and to experience life as it really is. Cruel and you have to work for things.
I'm so sorry, OP, that you are faced with these decisions.
I just finished reading through all the posts. Man, I do not envy you OP. Your DH sounds like a good man that loves you. I don't know the legality of everything but I hope you can somehow get your SS out of the house, be it juvenile hall...something.
I'm pretty sure if I were in your dh's shoes I would not be offering to pay for any of SS's expenses be it school, phone, car, insurance, whatever. I've told my almost 13 year old when he's acting up that I'm not required to give him anything more than food, water, shelter, basic clothes...then I say "everything else you get is just a bonus"...and then I tell him I'm not about to buy things for some one who disrespects me.
Can you leave until he turns 18 and he gets the boot and then try to work on your marriage?
I'm an old timer, arm chair psychologist, and real time therapist and I would run out of that situation and not look back. With CPS being involved he's now potentially legally impacting your DD future and I wouldn't stand for it.
Yes, I have changed. :
Hey Illumine! Just getting on here after what seems like years. I'm not surprised to see your SS still up to his same antics.
Before my SS left on his own accord he actually attempted to physically confront me. I had to call the non-emergency Sheriff hotline (I too live in Florida). I told them I was a SM & how old he was, and that he would NOT comply with the rules of the house. I asked them to do a courtesy visit because I wanted to know my rights as a parent. They have everything recorded so that's why I did it. The officer reprimanded my SS - told him he should be grateful for the roof over his head, and that the "chores" (cleaning up after himself) are LIFE SKILLS that he's going to need anyway when he gets out in the real world.
You need to cover your ass - SS beat you to the punch in calling the cops. Next time he starts screaming and acting a fool - pick up the phone and call the cops - explain the situation and that he's uncontrollable and they will take over. According to our officer - in Florida the legal age for them to leave home is 18 years old, so you're probably going to have to deal with him until then. You should be calling the cops every time he gets out of hand.
You should have called the cops when the kid came out swinging the weight at his father. It doesn't surprise me that you DH didn't knock his ass out.