Needing Support from other MoMs (Long)

Venuschild · November 2012

I usually post on the 12-24 month board, and don't come on here other than to lurk!

I have been off this week for Thanksgiving break, so I am home with the twins' all week, (My siggy doesn't work and they are 15 mo. b/g twins) and I feel like I am slowly losing it! We have two of the most opposite children in the world. One is a good eater one isn't, one is a good sleeper one isn't, one is good at being out in publin one isn't etc....Being home this week has made me see things more clearly, and is freaking me out!

Freak out #1- My normally good eater has turned into a pill...every time I try to spoon feed him anything he waves his hands and says no. I always feed him oatmeal with prunes to keep his BM movements regular. At that point he is mad that I tried to spoon feed him and throws all table food on the floor...this has been happening for 4 days.

Freak out #2- Bedtime...Our DD has always been a good sleeper we give her a bottle and she is put down awake in her crib and falls asleep within minutes. Well DS has never been able to self-soothe, we've tried paci and stuffed animals and nothing works. So we rock him in the swing at night, in our living room. He usually cries for about10-15 min every night in the swing and then I put him to bed in the crib after 20 min. FWIW he used to cry in the middle of the night but we let him CIO and he can self-resolve without waking his sister up. They share a room and we have a small 2 bedroom where we share our walls in the townhouse.

I think we have a semi consistent bedtime routine, dinner between 5:30 and 6 watch one episode of Peep, playtime until about 7, baths, bottle quiet time and swing/bed. Bedtime is usually between 7:30 and 8...But I am starting to have all this anxiety that he is still rocked to bed/swung every night. I read these posts on the 12-24 month board about routines and bedtime being easy, but none of them have twins...

Do you think it's "okay" to still rock/use swing?? I know every kid is different and has different needs, but I don't think we can do CIO, plus he does it every night in the swing anyway...WWYD? I don't want to post this on the other board because I don't think singleton mom really get it....

Just feeling like if I had only 1 kid life would be so much easier and I could concentrate on the baby that really needs it and I am coming up short. Like working on feeding or bedtime/CIO.

Temp123197812503460 · November 2012

Have you tried giving hiim the spoon? I think it's very normal for kids to start refusing to be fed and asserting independence! It might be messy but it's a nor al PArt of learning.And as for rocking, if it's working for you then I would stick with it. You won't be rocking forever, they are only little for a short time.

Temp123197812503460 · November 2012

But on the rocking thing, have you tried recently to put him straight in the crib? His crying could also be a sign that he doesn't want the rocking anymore, again things are always changing with these little guys!

kgs0505 · November 2012

For the spoon thing, ditto pp, he probably wants to just fees himself. We transitioned that by giving our son a spoon in addition to our spoon, so we could get some food into him as well. Definitely messy. At 20 months my ds absolutely refuses to let me spoon feed him anything anymore. Although he has a spoon and can use it, he prefers his hands, so it is messy, but most of the food goes into him at this point.
The sleeping I won't comment on since my twins aren't here yet.

HisGirlCridey · November 2012

Our girls are almost 17 months, so close to the same age.

As far as the oatmeal and prunes, could he be getting tired of eating oatmeal and prunes every morning for breakfast? There are lots of things that he can pick up and eat that would ensure that fiber (small bits of apple, multigrain waffles, etc.) is getting into him.

As far as the rocking, we have had to rock one of ours a little more than the other. We started giving a blanket now that it's getting cold (a crocheted afghan) and tuck them in, which she really loves. Maybe that's an idea is that he wants to get "snuggly"?

Venuschild · November 2012

HisGirlCridey:
Our girls are almost 17 months, so close to the same age.
As far as the oatmeal and prunes, could he be getting tired of eating oatmeal and prunes every morning for breakfast? There are lots of things that he can pick up and eat that would ensure that fiber (small bits of apple, multigrain waffles, etc.) is getting into him.
As far as the rocking, we have had to rock one of ours a little more than the other. We started giving a blanket now that it's getting cold (a crocheted afghan) and tuck them in, which she really loves. Maybe that's an idea is that he wants to get "snuggly"?

Do you still rock them though, and then put them to bed with blankie? I was thinking of asking MIL to knit a blankie that's breathable for Christmas he could get attached to that and self soothe with it.

HisGirlCridey · November 2012

Nope. I put her in the crib, lay the afghan on her tummy, and then she takes a corner of it and holds it to soothe. She doesn't cry because she knows she has her blanket.

BananaPancake · November 2012

#1 - No, you should not be spoon feeding him. It really sounds like your twins are ready to start growing up and are very frustrated. I would give him diluted apple juice for regularity and leave a spoon and fork on his tray for him o do it himself. Once they establish a pincer grasp I'm usually done spoon-feeding. Give him a few bites of a VERY varied diet and leave him alone. 15m is also a great time to start letting them "help" around the house. Let them "do laundry" by moving socks to the dryer, expect them to use cloth napkins at dinner, teach them to put their shoes away when they walk in the door, etc. Google montessori for small children and you'll have plenty of resources. The book, "Mommy, Teach Me!" by Barbara Curtis is fantastic for figuring out what to do with tiny kids. When you expect a lot, they will truly surprise you. Kids at their age are dying to "be big." Doing everything for them and babying them can REALLY mess up a lot. They need to experience the chance to do things themselves. Just this alone can mess up sleep cycles. They're falling asleep thinking at this age. The 4-month-wakeful period? They're thinking about mobility. The reason they get totally screwed up and can't sleep the same every few months? They're hitting milestones. Think about how much you can't sleep before you're about to leave on a trip or do something new and exciting. It's exactly the same for toddlers, only on a much grander scale. Using a spoon by himeself is a HUGE deal! Putting himself to bed is a HUGE deal!

#2 - the swing/rocking needs to stop. I know "they're only small for awhile," but you're robbing him of a a chance to really own his space and learn to DO this. We using rocking when they're feverish or having nightmares, period. The fever breaks, they're back in bed. The nightmare is over, they're back in bed. At 6 months we pick a random night to stop the Mommy/Daddy bed-sharing. And we do let them nurse all night long until then. One night we just pop them into the crib, turn on the noise machine, hand them a paci and a blanket and say, "Goodnight! I love you!"

Some kids completely lose it. Others just roll over and go to sleep. Whatever they do, you need to shut the door and let him deal. It sounds harsh, but this is coming from the mother of three incredibly confident awesome sleepers. At 15 months it sounds like he's also going to bed too late. 7 should be the absolute latest at this age, and we've had the girls going to bed as early as 6:30 at 15 months. Putting them down overtired isn't going to do them any favors in the self-soothing department.

15 months is late for sleep-training, to be honest. You have some backtracking to do, but I promise that if you stay strong and cheerful, he'll have it down in a week. Go in, replace the paci/blanket/lovey and say, "I love you! Goodnight!" no matter WHAT he's doing or how loud he's screaming. Reassuring him by staying confident and happy is key. If he sees that you're fine with him being in his crib, he'll follow suit. Patting his back, cuddling him and putting him back, acting sad, saying things like, "I know its hard!' etc, that's what will mess him up. Show him that you know he can do it. When you leave his room, shut the door and go OUT of the house altogether for ten minutes. He'll be fine! You can do this, mama!

Venuschild · November 2012

BananaPancake:

#1 - No, you should not be spoon feeding him. It really sounds like your twins are ready to start growing up and are very frustrated. I would give him diluted apple juice for regularity and leave a spoon and fork on his tray for him o do it himself. Once they establish a pincer grasp I'm usually done spoon-feeding. Give him a few bites of a VERY varied diet and leave him alone. 15m is also a great time to start letting them "help" around the house. Let them "do laundry" by moving socks to the dryer, expect them to use cloth napkins at dinner, teach them to put their shoes away when they walk in the door, etc. Google montessori for small children and you'll have plenty of resources. The book, "Mommy, Teach Me!" by Barbara Curtis is fantastic for figuring out what to do with tiny kids. When you expect a lot, they will truly surprise you. Kids at their age are dying to "be big." Doing everything for them and babying them can REALLY mess up a lot. They need to experience the chance to do things themselves. Just this alone can mess up sleep cycles. They're falling asleep thinking at this age. The 4-month-wakeful period? They're thinking about mobility. The reason they get totally screwed up and can't sleep the same every few months? They're hitting milestones. Think about how much you can't sleep before you're about to leave on a trip or do something new and exciting. It's exactly the same for toddlers, only on a much grander scale. Using a spoon by himeself is a HUGE deal! Putting himself to bed is a HUGE deal!

#2 - the swing/rocking needs to stop. I know "they're only small for awhile," but you're robbing him of a a chance to really own his space and learn to DO this. We using rocking when they're feverish or having nightmares, period. The fever breaks, they're back in bed. The nightmare is over, they're back in bed. At 6 months we pick a random night to stop the Mommy/Daddy bed-sharing. And we do let them nurse all night long until then. One night we just pop them into the crib, turn on the noise machine, hand them a paci and a blanket and say, "Goodnight! I love you!"

Some kids completely lose it. Others just roll over and go to sleep. Whatever they do, you need to shut the door and let him deal. It sounds harsh, but this is coming from the mother of three incredibly confident awesome sleepers. At 15 months it sounds like he's also going to bed too late. 7 should be the absolute latest at this age, and we've had the girls going to bed as early as 6:30 at 15 months. Putting them down overtired isn't going to do them any favors in the self-soothing department.

15 months is late for sleep-training, to be honest. You have some backtracking to do, but I promise that if you stay strong and cheerful, he'll have it down in a week. Go in, replace the paci/blanket/lovey and say, "I love you! Goodnight!" no matter WHAT he's doing or how loud he's screaming. Reassuring him by staying confident and happy is key. If he sees that you're fine with him being in his crib, he'll follow suit. Patting his back, cuddling him and putting him back, acting sad, saying things like, "I know its hard!' etc, that's what will mess him up. Show him that you know he can do it. When you leave his room, shut the door and go OUT of the house altogether for ten minutes. He'll be fine! You can do this, mama!

Since this post is already flamed I might as well respond to what I think is a rather condescending tone of voice in this post. I wrote this post last night on the verge of tears...so hearing how perfectly you do everything is no help to me. If you would have read it carefully you would have seen that the twins share a room, and there is no place to put the "good sleeper." I was asking for advice of how to CIO with one in there and how to wean him off the swing and get him into the crib. By the picture on your siggy I can see that you have 3 other children and are pregnant with twins. That means you have already had a singleton to learn and grow from something I do not have. I am also a full time working mom with twins. So sleep is something that I value, I have to leave by 7:15 and get home around 4. So if rocking in a swing was what we needed to do as a family and worked my son up until now then that's what we did.

I came on here asking for advice from other MoMs of how to get my son to eat oatmeal, a table food that needs to be spooned in order to keep him regular. They also eat yogurt, curious how you do it without a spoon. And yes I tried giving him the spoon many times to feed himself but he just throws it. At our last pedi appointment (On Monday) she said go ahead and spoon feed, that she did that until her own son was 2.5yo. I think there is a minsunderstanding that I do not give table food...While trying to give oatmeal he is eating fruit and waffles..for lunch he is eating table foods in addition to the yogurt...

I do not feel that they are babied simply because they are rocked and eat oatmeal/yogurt...we clean together, and help with laundry already, and when I get their meals read they help in the kitchen with tupperware...obviously we come from different point of view, which is OK. I just think it's sad that I come here looking for friendly advice and feel like I was demeaned...

jennyfur211 · November 2012

My first thought on the oatmeal thing is to spoon a little bit on his tray and let him eat it with his hands, yes it will be messy but it is amazing how much they acutally will get in their mouth. Then spoon some more until the bowl is empty.

As for the sleep and rocking thing, twins and even other children will learn to sleep through another child's crying. My DD, who is a 2 years old & a twin, sleeps with her younger brother, who is 1, and she sleeps right through his crying. Also, what if you weaned him off the rocking. Do a few days of your normal routine, then start taking time off the rocking until you eventually get to no rocking at all. I also think maybe giving him a blanket for comfort might help too. All of my children have had blankets since they were babies because that was the only way I could get them to go to sleep. I would just give him the blanket and let him sleep with it. At 15 months, he knows about breathing and what not and if you are nervous about it just give him a small blanket and keep checking on him.

I hope this helps. I had sleep issues with my twins too so I know where you are coming from.

ShopperKristi · November 2012

My babies are much younger but I have sleep issues too and it is SO hard! I Feel for you! and i cry every other day so you are not alone

. I actually appreciated the advice given here and no one was flaming you darling. These ladies are very helpful and experienced and I'm sure they didn't intend to come across as rude if that's how you interpreted it. The bottom line is, do what works for you. No one is telling you that you are bad for swinging baby to sleep but you even said yourself it isn't working. I would recommend checking out healthy sleep habits happy twins, the no cry sleep solution, or the baby whisperer solves all your problems. Have heard good things about all those books! Good luck love, I hope you get it all sorted soon!

BananaPancake · November 2012

I'm sorry if you felt like I was flaming you goodness knows I don't have it all down, but you really sound like you're at the end of your rope, and many times weaning and cajoling make it much, much harder to get your point across to toddlers. I have three kids sleeping in the same room. One is a sleepwalker, one has nightmares, one throws fits when she goes down, one likes it dark and one wants all the lights on. Kids are very, very adaptable and they'll handle what you give them. I'd really try putting them in there together and giving it at least a week. It can take time to mesh different styles, but I think he's ready to surprise you. 15 months sucks, because they can't talk and they think they're 12. I'm not trying to tell you you're a bad mother. I'm just saying that it's okay to let your kids think you are in order to do something that will give the entire family more peace in the long run. Again, I'm sorry if you were offended we've done this many times and when people ask for advice I tend to offer it. Just listen to your gut and it'll be fine!

Jen0204 · November 2012

DD2 hits the spoon every night. What I've started doing is saying "okay, I guess you don't want to eat!" and I leave her in her highchair while I go about feeding DD1. Every time DD2 gets annoyed and yells and I say I'll feed her if she doesn't hit the spoon, hold down the hand that she hits with while I give her one spoonful and then she's good for the rest of the meal. When I would get annoyed or fight her it became a game; when I started saying "oh well" and ignoring her while focusing on DD1 it stopped being a game and it never turns into a fight because I won't bite.

With sleeping I can honestly say that sleep training was a lifesaver. H and I both work full-time, so I feel you on the importance of sleep. I also empathize with you because my nephew is 15 months and is a terrible sleeper. He doesn't nap well, won't go down for naps or bedtime without an hour long fight and doesn't stay in his bed. My sister started crying when she saw me put the girls down for a nap on Thanksgiving because I just put them each in a PNP and walked away and she can't imagine it being that easy. The girls go down easily for bed and STTN, although they get up at 6am, which is tough (though they're usually down between 6:30-7pm). We did CIO around 8 months to help with getting them to go down without a fight and after their 9 month appointment weaned from the MOTN bottle and they started STTN shortly after. My point with this story is that getting them to be good sleepers took a conscious effort on our part, and if we had just tried to let them grow out of their habits I think we would be in rough shape right now. On my BMB a lot of women believe that babies only wake up if they need to and that rocking to sleep is fine because they're only young once. With one baby maybe I would agree, but with two my H and I felt that for us sleep training was important to do.

I would suggest asking your pediatrician for advice about the sleep issues. I would strongly recommend trying to break the rocking/swing habits now because I would be scared that as he gets more vocal it will be tougher to break any bad habits. And I'm only on this board sporadically, but from what I've seen the women on here are all great and a fantastic source for support and advice. I think it can be tough to read tone across the Internet sometimes and I hope you continue to post here with any questions or vents. Good luck!

outnumbered · November 2012

Sorry, I am not a mom of multiples so I should not be replying. My second child was a horrible sleeper so I felt compelled to answer. If the swinging and rocking are working for you it is not wrong to use them, but if you want to make a change you can. You do not need to leave the room and make him do it on his own. There is more than one way to create incredibly, confident, awesome, sleepers. 15 months is not too late to sleep train and depending on your son's routine 7:00 pm might not be the ideal time to put him to bed. You have no backtracking to do only moving forward if you want to make changes. We used the Sleep lady shuffle when my second child was about 15 months old and was sharing a room with his sister. It worked for him and there was no screaming and crying to prove that he could do it own. It even used patting him on the back and he really is not messed up (yet). Good luck. I know sleep things are hard with only one so I am sure with two it is incredibly difficult.

Venuschild · November 2012

Thank you for all your responses, especially to BananaPancake I really did appreciate your second post....As an update here's what our game plan is...my DH and I decided to gradually wean him off of the swing first, so tonight we held him and rocked him instead of putting him in the swing. I know to some that might not be a big deal, but he's never really fallen asleep on us very well so we were happy when he did, after that we put him down. He woke up fussed for a minute and then fell asleep within 5 minutes. We're going to do that until things go more easily then hopefully he'll get used to falling asleep in his crib more often. I know everyone has a different position on rocking or not rocking...we have always been on the fence about it. I am getting a knit blankie that my MIL uses for his naps and hopefully that will get him to bond with it to soothe him too. I think as long as he's happy being rocked on us and not in the swing as he gets older he can come to understand its nighttime and bedtime in the crib.

ShopperKristi · November 2012

Sounds like a plan! Good to hear it went well the first night! Good luck!

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