Sleep Help

TAGSL710 · November 2012

Someone tell me what I haven't tried. The following applies for naps and nighttime.

We've attempted:
Rnp, pnp, bouncy, swing, swaddle, heating pad, noise machine, crib, putting down drowsy, juliane's spacing, easy routine

None of it has worked.

He HAS to be in our arms w a paci and walked around the house until he falls asleep. Putting him in any of the above awake or drowsy results in him crying until picked up. If we put him down once asleep it has to be on his belly or he wakes up instantly. If its nighttime then whenever I get him to fall asleep, I have to go to bed too [we co sleep] or he'll wake back up. The most I ever get at night is a2.5 hr stretch.

I'm not going to CIO ever, so please don't tell me I can do that soon.

Any idea on what I'm missing? I've got 2 weeks until I go back to work and officially lose my sanity with this little sleep.

ETA: I EBF and yes he gets enough, I have oversupply. He's 11w on Tuesday.

dmfan897 · November 2012

Try browsing through this page..DD1 was a holy terror high needs baby for a long time. We had all of the same issues that you did. After many months she did outgrow it but I distinctly remember not being able to put her to bed unless I layed down next to her. I was able to get a little break by laying her tummy down on the couch and rubbing/patting her back until she fell asleep. It only worked for naps but it at least offered me a break to do housework or give dh and I time to be intimate. Big hugs..I know how rough it can be when your baby is high needs. She did get better though we had to do a very minimal amount of cio around 18mths because she wasn't getting enough sleep.
https://www.askdrsears.com/topics/parenting/fussybaby/highneedbaby

dmfan897 · November 2012

Ugh sorry I can't make it clicky

ArtificialRed · November 2012

Do you have a bedtime and routine you try to stick to every day? Some babies thrive on that predictability. What kind of white noise is it? I'm assuming you've tried the soothing wind/rain/ocean style and the obnoxious vaccuum style? What kind of swing do you have? If it goes side to side could you borrow/try one that goes front to back, or vice versa?

My only other suggestion, something I've had to do as a nanny to avoid CIO, is lay the baby down in her bed and just pat, pat, pat her back. It's terrible for your back but it can help them learn that you mean business about bed time, while you're still there with them. And if there's screaming while you're doing that you should definitely give the obnoxiously loud vaccuum noise a try while you're doing it.

I'm not sure any of this is very original advice, but I really hope something works out for you soon so you can get some rest. Good luck!

km3 · November 2012

Gosh, that sounds rough. I hope you find something that works soon! There's a certain lullaby app that is an instant sedative for my kid. It's call SleepySounds and its free for iPhone. This might just be my son's "thing" and it may not work the same way for other babies but it's worth a shot. Good luck!

Holly_1007 · November 2012

the only other thing i can think of is baby wearing... load him in and sleep in a recliner with him on your chest? who will be watching him when you go back to work?

eta: sorry had to change colby. im in the same boat, although he is a little younger. im being persistent though, strict bedtime routine at roughly the same time every night, consistently putting him in the same place. but i also dont have to go back to work. ds just started doing 4-5 hour stretches for the first part of the night, but that starts at 7.30, i cant go to bed anytime before 9.30 because i still need to get ds1 to bed, deal with my dogs etc. after he gets up from that stretch he is up every hour for the rest of the night. it is exhausting.

have you tried putting him on the boppy on your bed? if i had to guess he likes your warmth, smell and can sense when you are near, that is why you need to sleep with him. you cant side-lie to nurse because of the oversupply right? im wondering if the over supply has him eating too much foremilk and not enough hindmilk, which is the fattier milk that helps him sleep longer. what do his poops look like? can you pump and give him a bottle before bed to make sure he is getting enough of both?

thats all ive got. i hope you figure something out soon tags

gingerfamily · November 2012

Try a sleep positioner with him laying on his side. It has worked for both of my kids.

KellersPrag · November 2012

First of all, I'm sorry you're going through this.
The first thing I will say is if he will sleep alone on his belly, why not let him? Invest in a video or movement monitor for your peace of mind, and let him sleep on his belly.
Next... some babies/kids are just high needs babies. Some won't sleep longer stretches for a very long time. It sucks, but it is what it is. Just make sure at night when he wakes, you keep it pitch black and quiet. No playful touching, no talking or singing. And put him right back to sleep, or keep trying. Eventually he will get the idea
Also curious... is he waking hungry?

Mom2Mack1 · November 2012

Both of my LO's love sleeping in the Boppy. DS sleeps in it at night laying on his side. Also, do you use a sound machine. We just got one for DS and he loves it. The first night he slept 8 hrs, and it makes putting him to be easier. When I put him to be he always woke up when his musical seahorse stopped playing music unless he was sound asleep. Now, he typically doesn't and just falls asleep on his own.

numb3rMel · November 2012

Tags! Your nights sound awful. I'm so sorry.

I was thinking of you in the shower (oh yea) and thinking about how he likes to sleep snuggled up next to you. I would try laying him down or next to the shirt you wore all day. Better yet, getting one of those microwave bean sacks for warmth and wrapping your shirt around it for him. Maybe that'll help wean him from needing to sleep with you.

TAGSL710 · November 2012

Thanks for the responses ladies.

I have tried the shirt I wore idea, he will fall asleep babywearing but once he's out hell wake up, we've tried only organic cotton pjs, he hates his boppy, we tried giving a pumped bottle, the white noise is how we get 2 hours of sleep otherwise it'd be shorter [ive got about 6 apps on my phone we've tried], the only time hell sleep on his belly is nap times bc it has to be on a cushy surface like our bed or couch and I'm not comfortable doing that at night.

I have a bedtime routine. He still hates it. Lol

kristyand · November 2012

So I'm right there with ya so this doesn't come from someone who has got it figured out. Our babes have different needs for sure, but the lack of sleep going BSC thing I get.

It sounds to me like LO might prefer tummy due to gas likely due to your overproduction. Is that what you think?

And why do you co-sleep? I started out doing so, and really wanted to, still want to... but she is TOO light of a sleeper for any of us to get any sleep that way. Yes, I do end up more awake I think due to having to get up, but I don't have a LO that can just nurse and fall asleep at this point any how. We bounce her to deep drowsy or asleep on a physio ball, she will have nothing to do with being walked or rocked to sleep at this point... not enough motion I don't think for her to settle to sleep, even though she sleeps in the crib at night. So even if we did co-sleep I would have to nurse then get up and bounce beside the bed I guess, then put her in bed and get in, at which point I bet she would wake up...

On my better days I'm trying to accept that I have something I kind of always feared, a light sleeper/sleep fighter, and just trying to ride that wave. On all the rest of the days I feel like I'm doing it wrong and like there MUST BE some special magical something that would change it all.

ETA: Sorry. Should have read all the responses and your reply before writing my own. So... I'm no help.

BakerMommy · November 2012

DD2 needed the walk around the house routine, too. One day I swaddled her for the routine and then had to go help DD1, so I put DD2 in her crib with her mobile going for a few minutes. When I came back, she was out! Now I watch for her to get the spacey look in her eyes [she honestly doesn't seem tired yet, and if I wait for tired it's too late], then swaddle her and put her in her crib. Works about 75 of the time.

Hope that helps [or you find the random fluke that will]!

cmumama · November 2012

I'm so sorry you're dealing with this Tags.

Are you opposed to trying a bottle of formula just before bedtime? I'm just wondering if your oversupply is part of the problem??

I know you are opposed to CIO, but would you be willing to let him cry for even 10 min? My ped said to let M cry 10-15 min TOPS when we transitioned him to the crib about 2 weeks ago. The first night we put him in there, he cried for 10 min and then was out like a light. I know that doesn't work for all babies, but maybe try giving him 10 min to see what happens. M sometimes still cries when we put him in there, but it's usually only for a couple of min.

We have M swaddled in a Halo sleep sack, have the mattress elevated with a pillow, have a little "nest" around him (towel rolled and covered in a blanket, which will be removed when he starts rolling or starts getting out of the swaddle) and we turn the FP aquarium on.

I really wish I could just give you a magical answer. This is just what has worked for us.

((hugs))

Holly_1007 · November 2012

just talked to DH (who pretends he's a baby expert, *eyeroll*) when he isn't sleeping, is he crying/ fussing because he is tired? have you tried colic calm or gripe water? do you think he has an allergy that is making his belly upset so he can't sleep? or does he just not like sleeping and is otherwise content? have you done the EASY method?

I know you are against CIO, so take this with a grain of salt: I was against CIO with DS1 too, and honestly, still am, but sometimes, DS2 cries and I just can't get to him. for instance: I cannot leave me 2 year old unattended in the bath tub to go across the house and up a flight of stairs to put a binky back in. sometimes, he cries for a minute or two and then just zonks out, other times, I get to him as soon as I possibly can. there are definitely different degrees of CIO: letting your baby scream bloody murder to the point of hysteria for 20 mins is cruel and unusual punishment if you ask me, but fussing/ whining for a minute or two while I finish what I'm doing (or put DS1 in a safe place) isn't the end of the world. just my 2 cents on that, but you have to do what works for you.

Nita2603 · November 2012

I am more or less in the same boat, even though it seems to get better the last couple of days. We take shifts at night he will only sleep on one of us. We have started to make him nap on his own but that just results in 20 minute naps. I keep telling myself that he will grow out of it.

TAGSL710 · November 2012

Thanks again ladies. :]

He hates the swaddle and screams. If I try to sit and rock him he kicks and punches until I stand up. Once I get him to sleep, if I lay him down he's up. I have let him cry when I'm laying next to him so I can hold his paci and shhhh him but he just gets very, very upset and I have to end up nursing him to calm him down. During the day he's quite happy but would MUCH rather be held than put down so we babywear a lot.

linzeek44 · November 2012

It sounds so rough, Tags. I hope you find the magical solution soon.

We had trouble with putting him down and getting him to stay asleep and not start crying for a while. And then one day he magically fell asleep, despite the fact that we did not do anything different. So confusing.

With the oversupply, does he empty your breast during a feeding? Do you block feed at night? I would think hind milk would fill him up and make him more tired, but with oversupply it is hard to get that hindmilk.

TAGSL710 · November 2012

linzeek44:
It sounds so rough, Tags. I hope you find the magical solution soon.We had trouble with putting him down and getting him to stay asleep and not start crying for a while. And then one day he magically fell asleep, despite the fact that we did not do anything different. So confusing.With the oversupply, does he empty your breast during a feeding? Do you block feed at night? I would think hind milk would fill him up and make him more tired, but with oversupply it is hard to get that hindmilk.nbsp;nbsp;

I tried to block feed last night but it didn't help. I tried block feeding for a few days a while ago and it didn't reduce my supply at all. I might try it again. I never really feel full or empty. They feel the same all the time.

kristyand · November 2012

TAGSL710:
linzeek44:
It sounds so rough, Tags. I hope you find the magical solution soon.We had trouble with putting him down and getting him to stay asleep and not start crying for a while. And then one day he magically fell asleep, despite the fact that we did not do anything different. So confusing.With the oversupply, does he empty your breast during a feeding? Do you block feed at night? I would think hind milk would fill him up and make him more tired, but with oversupply it is hard to get that hindmilk.nbsp;nbsp;
I tried to block feed last night but it didn't help. I tried block feeding for a few days a while ago and it didn't reduce my supply at all. I might try it again. I never really feel full or empty. They feel the same all the time.

I have block fed from birth pretty much. She has only taken two boobs in a 5 hr period once. Sometimes I think I'm empty and that I need to start offering two and when I do the issues get worse. I highly encourage round the clock block feeding if you still think you have an oversupply. What happens when you pump? I don't pump hardy ever so as to not increase my supply but it's a nice little test just to see. Then you may see if you can get them to feel more empty maybe if you pump after a feed until the milk stops.

linzeek44 · November 2012

TAGSL710:
linzeek44:
It sounds so rough, Tags. I hope you find the magical solution soon.We had trouble with putting him down and getting him to stay asleep and not start crying for a while. And then one day he magically fell asleep, despite the fact that we did not do anything different. So confusing.With the oversupply, does he empty your breast during a feeding? Do you block feed at night? I would think hind milk would fill him up and make him more tired, but with oversupply it is hard to get that hindmilk.nbsp;nbsp;
I tried to block feed last night but it didn't help. I tried block feeding for a few days a while ago and it didn't reduce my supply at all. I might try it again. I never really feel full or empty. They feel the same all the time.

One of the benefits of block feeding at night is that it would up the hindmilk he is getting. It may or may not reduce your supply overall. It took a week or so before I noticed a difference during the day, and the night has been slower to change.

Anyway, what I do to ensure he gets hindmilk is a few pumps with the manual pump (the Medela harmony is seriously awesome) or hand express a little foremilk beforea feeding. Then massage the outer part of the breast you are feeding on ( LC told me that, idk if it works but I've been doing it). That ensures more hindmilk during a feeding. Then if you block feed and put him back on the same breast, the foremilk is already lessened due to the pumping and first feeding, and he will get more of the good stuff.

Hyaline · November 2012

Just wondering--because I would never say to go for CIO--but when you put him down, does he fuss cry or does he truly break out and cry? DD will fuss, and half the time if I don't go to her right away she settles back down in a couple minutes. Sometimes she ramps it up, and then I pick her up. I'm just curious if you give him a chance to try to get himself back to sleep. My instinct is to go to DD as soon as she starts to fuss, but if I did that, we'd disrupt her own back to sleep process. I might try giving him a few minutes of fussing before picking him up if you haven't given that a shot.

AppleMomma · November 2012

So sorry you're dealing with a crappy sleep routine. I don't have much advice, my parents tried tons of methods and I would not sleep for a year without being held and walked around at night Sad

TAGSL710 · November 2012

Hyaline:
Just wonderingbecause I would never say to go for CIObut when you put him down, does he fuss cry or does he truly break out and cry? nbsp;DD will fuss, and half the time if I don't go to her right away she settles back down in a couple minutes. nbsp;Sometimes she ramps it up, and then I pick her up. nbsp;I'm just curious if you give him a chance to try to get himself back to sleep. nbsp;My instinct is to go to DD as soon as she starts to fuss, but if I did that, we'd disrupt her own back to sleep process. nbsp;I might try giving him a few minutes of fussing before picking him up if you haven't given that a shot.

It's a full on cry with tears.

L8kissie · November 2012

I'm so sorry, Tags. That sounds terrible. Can SO do a shift and then you do a shift? I know you ebf, but pumped milk is still breastmilk. GL. I hope he gets into a different groove soon.

mrsbhk22 · November 2012

Your situation sucks. Ds2 was the same way. Super high needs. He eventually got better and is a great sleeper in his own bed now. We tried it all too with no luck. Hopefully your situation gets better soon.

No new advice here. Just internet stranger hugs. I've been there, working full time and it sucks but it does get better.

Edit: we even tried a formula bottle before bed and it did nothing. I do vaguely remember round 6 months and solids it go better. Like 5 hrs versus 2 but it still took a lot of rocking to get him asleep.

Hyaline · November 2012

TAGSL710:
Hyaline:
Just wonderingbecause I would never say to go for CIObut when you put him down, does he fuss cry or does he truly break out and cry? nbsp;DD will fuss, and half the time if I don't go to her right away she settles back down in a couple minutes. nbsp;Sometimes she ramps it up, and then I pick her up. nbsp;I'm just curious if you give him a chance to try to get himself back to sleep. nbsp;My instinct is to go to DD as soon as she starts to fuss, but if I did that, we'd disrupt her own back to sleep process. nbsp;I might try giving him a few minutes of fussing before picking him up if you haven't given that a shot.
It's a full on cry with tears.

Oh man, that stinks--I'm sorry Hope you find something that works for you guys!

TAGSL710 · November 2012

tabbob2008:
Hugs, tag. This book has helped me some:nbsp;https://www.amazon.com/NoCrySleepSolutionGentleThrough/dp/0071381392. However, I'm not sure if there's anything you haven't cried. I replied about CIO in other thread. Again, here's to hoping he starts sleeping better for you and him.

I've read it and tried it all :[. Thank you though!

VineyardMel · November 2012

I saw this yesterday and didn't get a chance to reply. I just wanted to say that I'm right there with you--she freaks out if she's not being held. From the first night in the hospital she screamed until DH put her in my arms to sleep and for the past 10 weeks she's been held for all naps and we gave into bed sharing at 3wks.

BUT--I wanted to post to just offer a tiny bit of hope. After trying everything with no results something amazing happened. Last week she was laying in the PnP awake "playing" while I blow dried my hair and she fell asleep. It only lasted 30 min but it was something. I also got her to sleep in the swing (which she HATED until 2wks ago), but still that magical 30 min and she wakes up. Like your LO she's always hated the swaddle but yesterday I decided to put her in the escape proof swaddle for a nap and holy hell--she slept for 2.5 hours. I put her in the PnP (heated her space first), swaddled, with paci after rocking her to sleep. She woke up as soon as I put her down and I just leaned over her and stroked her head and chest for a few minutes. I also used the glow worm thing. She stared at it and eventually fell asleep. I can't tell you how many times I checked on her to see if she was still alive in there. AND--I just did the same thing and she's in there asleep. I have no idea why it's suddenly working. (Should add that tried it for two other naps and overnight last night with zero luck and she managed to escape from the swaddle. My little Houdini.)

Good luck. I love my little Diva and I love our snuggles but it is HARD to function when you don't have anytime in the day to yourself to get stuff done. Hopefully something is going to click for him and he'll start sleeping alone.

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