SO SAD to hear the news about Mayim Bialik...

SoxFan777 · November 2012

Mayim Bialik is getting a divorce... so sad! I liked her book and I love the way she's raising her kids (AP, Jewish, vegan)... I don't agree with all her choices, but I like that she's a good role model for those of us who make conscious choices about how we raise our kids and what we put into our bodies regardless of what society tells us...

Bummer her marriage didn't work out. Sorry for her two boys especially... Is nine years in Hollywood the new "Hollywood Forever"??

sooner1981 · November 2012

I don't know...to me, one of the most, if not the most important, things that parents can do is be role models for what fulfilling, happy, mature adult relationships should look like.

I bet that if you asked those kids, they would much rather be raised in an intact home than be vegan... I know it is not an "either, or," but I do wonder how much her "extreme parenting" views (and the publicity it brought her whole family) contributed to their marital difficulties? I wonder if her husband was on board with all the choices that she made for their kids. I know we will never know any of this, but it does make me wonder whether there was any resentment over her seeming to make all the choices with the ways that they were going to raise their two sons--and that she seemed (at least in her book and in interviews I have seen) to minimize her husband's role as an equal parent.

blush64 · November 2012

sooner1981:
I don't know...to me, one of the most, if not the most important, things that parents can do is be role models for what fulfilling, happy, mature adult relationships should look like.

I bet that if you asked those kids, they would much rather be raised in an intact home than be vegan... I know it is not an "either, or," but I do wonder how much her "extreme parenting" views (and the publicity it brought her whole family) contributed to their marital difficulties? I wonder if her husband was on board with all the choices that she made for their kids. I know we will never know any of this, but it does make me wonder whether there was any resentment over her seeming to make all the choices with the ways that they were going to raise their two sons--and that she seemed (at least in her book and in interviews I have seen) to minimize her husband's role as an equal parent.

We really don't know anything that went on. He might have helped make all decisions. He might have felt just as strongly about everything. The media would make things all about her because she was the tv personality and she wrote the book. If he was on tv and he wrote a book they would have made it about him. Her views might not have had anything to do with their issues but you can be sure people are going to pin it all on that.

No matter what either of them say we won't know because we weren't in the marriage. It's really unfair to assume anything but you know people will especially because so many people already seem to judge any sort of "attachment parenting".

sooner1981 · November 2012

Yeah, I agree that we don't know everything that went on. It just seems like people who really care about their kids' emotional health shouldn't just throw in the towel on their relationships without seriously trying every. single. thing. they can to make their relationship work. They made the commitment to have two kids in the past 9 years, so it seems to me that their "differences" couldn't have been too "irreconcilable."

Just surprised that someone who has spent the past 9 years researching brain development, kids' emotional health, emotional/physical well-being, etc. would choose this path, which will almost certainly negatively impact their kiddos for the rest of their lives in myriad ways.

Again, no judgment. Just pure sadness and curiosity at what seems like a total break in character on their supposedly "kid-centric" worldview...

nosoup4u · November 2012

sooner1981:
Yeah, I agree that we don't know everything that went on.nbsp; It just seems like people who really care about their kids' emotional health shouldn't just throw in the towel on their relationships without seriously trying every. single. thing. they can to make their relationship work.nbsp; They made the commitment to have two kids in the past 9 years, so it seems to me that their "differences" couldn't have been too "irreconcilable."
Just surprised that someone who has spent the past 9 years researching brain development, kids' emotional health, emotional/physical wellbeing, etc. would choose this path, which will almost certainly negatively impact their kiddos for the rest of their lives in myriad ways.
Again, no judgment.nbsp; Just pure sadness and curiosity at what seems like a total break in character on their supposedly "kidcentric" worldview...

I think having two happy but divorced parents is much better for kids' mental health than having two parents together in an unhappy marriage. And do people sit around speculating that it was definitely CIO that lead to a divorce with a non AP couple? Why is the assumption always that cosleping is not only a sex life killer, but that no "real" man would ever consent to it?

sooner1981 · November 2012

nosoup4u:
sooner1981:
Yeah, I agree that we don't know everything that went on.nbsp; It just seems like people who really care about their kids' emotional health shouldn't just throw in the towel on their relationships without seriously trying every. single. thing. they can to make their relationship work.nbsp; They made the commitment to have two kids in the past 9 years, so it seems to me that their "differences" couldn't have been too "irreconcilable." Just surprised that someone who has spent the past 9 years researching brain development, kids' emotional health, emotional/physical wellbeing, etc. would choose this path, which will almost certainly negatively impact their kiddos for the rest of their lives in myriad ways. Again, no judgment.nbsp; Just pure sadness and curiosity at what seems like a total break in character on their supposedly "kidcentric" worldview...
I think having two happy but divorced parents is much better for kids' mental health than having two parents together in an unhappy marriage. And do people sit around speculating that it was definitely CIO that lead to a divorce with a non AP couple? Why is the assumption always that cosleping is not only a see life killer, but that no "real" man would ever consent to it?

I definitely agree that kids fare better in happy divorces rather than unhappy marriages in cases of addiction, abuse, etc. But I guess I just think that one of the key tenets of AP-ing is putting your kids' needs as paramount during the relatively short period of your overall life when they rely upon you to shape their entire world view on so many important issues.

To me, unless there are the addiction, abuse, or similar issues, it just seems uncharacteristically selfish for parents who claim to be AP to produce two kids in a relatively short time period and then just decide "hey, this whole 'relationship thing' doesn't really make me as happy as I feel like it should." How can you teach secure attachment to your kids when you make the decision to pull them away from one or the other parent at all times for the rest of their childhoods? I don't know. I just don't get it. I think when you have kids, you make a commitment to put their happiness and emotional needs at the very top of yours and your husband's priority list. If that is true, then a divorce for any "convenience" reasons or because you think you might possibly be able to "do better" on a second try, just seems to be a direct violation of AP principles.

KateLouise · November 2012

I've never been divorced, but I don't for second believe that it is ever for "convenience" or an "easy" choice.

danigirl7181 · November 2012

sooner1981:
nosoup4u:
sooner1981:
Yeah, I agree that we don't know everything that went on.nbsp; It just seems like people who really care about their kids' emotional health shouldn't just throw in the towel on their relationships without seriously trying every. single. thing. they can to make their relationship work.nbsp; They made the commitment to have two kids in the past 9 years, so it seems to me that their "differences" couldn't have been too "irreconcilable." Just surprised that someone who has spent the past 9 years researching brain development, kids' emotional health, emotional/physical wellbeing, etc. would choose this path, which will almost certainly negatively impact their kiddos for the rest of their lives in myriad ways. Again, no judgment.nbsp; Just pure sadness and curiosity at what seems like a total break in character on their supposedly "kidcentric" worldview...
I think having two happy but divorced parents is much better for kids' mental health than having two parents together in an unhappy marriage. And do people sit around speculating that it was definitely CIO that lead to a divorce with a non AP couple? Why is the assumption always that cosleping is not only a see life killer, but that no "real" man would ever consent to it?

I definitely agree that kids fare better in happy divorces rather than unhappy marriages in cases of addiction, abuse, etc. But I guess I just think that one of the key tenets of AP-ing is putting your kids' needs as paramount during the relatively short period of your overall life when they rely upon you to shape their entire world view on so many important issues.

To me, unless there are the addiction, abuse, or similar issues, it just seems uncharacteristically selfish for parents who claim to be AP to produce two kids in a relatively short time period and then just decide "hey, this whole 'relationship thing' doesn't really make me as happy as I feel like it should." How can you teach secure attachment to your kids when you make the decision to pull them away from one or the other parent at all times for the rest of their childhoods? I don't know. I just don't get it. I think when you have kids, you make a commitment to put their happiness and emotional needs at the very top of yours and your husband's priority list. If that is true, then a divorce for any "convenience" reasons or because you think you might possibly be able to "do better" on a second try, just seems to be a direct violation of AP principles.

So if two people are unhappy in their marriage they should just suck it up for the kids? Don't you think seeing their parents unhappy would be detrimental to their overall view on relationships? They may grow up to see marriage as a negative thing.

ETA: of course they should try all means possible to reconcile first.

anna7602 · November 2012

sooner1981:

To me, unless there are the addiction, abuse, or similar issues, it just seems uncharacteristically selfish for parents who claim to be AP to produce two kids in a relatively short time period and then just decide "hey, this whole 'relationship thing' doesn't really make me as happy as I feel like it should." How can you teach secure attachment to your kids when you make the decision to pull them away from one or the other parent at all times for the rest of their childhoods? I don't know. I just don't get it. I think when you have kids, you make a commitment to put their happiness and emotional needs at the very top of yours and your husband's priority list. If that is true, then a divorce for any "convenience" reasons or because you think you might possibly be able to "do better" on a second try, just seems to be a direct violation of AP principles.

This is quite possibly the most obnoxious thing I have ever seen posted on this board. No wonder many people think AP=judgy & holier than thou.

sooner1981 · November 2012

I actually am not trying to judge AT ALL! I just think when you hold yourself out to be "the gold standard" of AP, then maybe you have invited a little additional scrutiny when you make decisions that are appear to be so clearly not kid-centric.

I realize that we don't "know her life," but she has profited by hundreds of thousands of dollars by shilling her "AP philosophies" all over talk shows, books, monetized websites, etc. I guess I am just really disappointed. It just seems like almost a waste to devote so much attention to developing "secure attachments" with your kids, only to make a decision that guarantees that you will only get to experience 50% of their future life experiences with them. Only get to respond to their emotional and physical needs 50% of the time.

If their differences truly were so "irreconcilable," don't you think they could have figured that out at least before having their second kid? Again, I would be surprised if there are any addiction/abuse issues going on because she said that they will both continue being integral parts of their children's lives.

nosoup4u · November 2012

sooner1981:

To me, unless there are the addiction, abuse, or similar issues, it just seems uncharacteristically selfish for parents who claim to be AP to produce two kids in a relatively short time period and then just decide "hey, this whole 'relationship thing' doesn't really make me as happy as I feel like it should." How can you teach secure attachment to your kids when you make the decision to pull them away from one or the other parent at all times for the rest of their childhoods? I don't know. I just don't get it. I think when you have kids, you make a commitment to put their happiness and emotional needs at the very top of yours and your husband's priority list. If that is true, then a divorce for any "convenience" reasons or because you think you might possibly be able to "do better" on a second try, just seems to be a direct violation of AP principles.

I take it you sit on the Official AP Council, then? Are you going to be sending her and her ex a bill for violating the sacred principles of "not putting the children first"?

Seriously, get over yourself. No one will ever know the details of their divorce, but I'm going with the assumption that things happen, and that they are smart enough to not take the decision lightly. And I like I said before, it makes a lot more sense for kids to be with two happy parents who don't live together than be part of a dysfunctional, but "together" family.

And serious LULZ over the constant refrain of "I'm not judging her!" from you.

nosoup4u · November 2012

Kimbus22:
Semi-AP lurker chiming in
I'm in this camp. For years she has made a point to repeatedly state how "on board" her husband is with all of the AP choices "they" made. And then in her statement regarding the divorce she felt the need to state that her parenting views had absolutely nothing to do with the break up. For me, that seems like "the lady doth protest too much." I mean, why even bring it up if it's not a factor? That's just fueling the gossip fires...
Divorce sucks for everyone involved. I hope they can get along for the kids.

But she's very obviously the most public face of raising kids AP, though. Of course people are going to assume that AP has something to do with her divorce. If I were her, I'd probably put something like that in a press release, too.

I cannot get over the fact that people just assume that she's the one who decided AP is how they are going to raise their kids. The innate sexism embedded in the idea that no men would ever support or practice AP makes me sorta depressed.

sooner1981 · November 2012

Haha...definitely not on the official AP council. Heck, I don't follow every single AP principle. But then again, I am not the one who has profited hundreds of thousands of dollars on broadcasting AP philosophies. I am not the one who will be used as an example throughout the country of "why AP doesn't work" or "why a family bed leads to divorce," etc. I just wish that people who are so very public with their beliefs gave a lot more thought to how their decisions impact a community.

And you can LOL with my statement that I am not judging her all you want. But the truth is, I really am not judging her. I am definitely very confused about this latest development, and very unclear about how the type of AP that they practiced (i.e., not even having family members babysit their kids, etc.) fits into a divorce situation where each parent only gets to be with the kids for 50% of the time, but this is a forum for discussions, and maybe someone can enlighten me.

TiffanyBerry · November 2012

Sometimes, even if it's not abuse/whathaveyou, it IS better for the kids if the parents divorce. Ask the grown up kids of parents who stayed politely married for the sake of their kids - it's not any better. The kids know this, especially by age 9! The kids instead see their parents less than happy, making choices that make them less than happy "for the kids", and the kids know this too. It teaches the children a lot of parents make honest choices, even when they are difficult ones, and handle them gracefully.

Temp123197812503460 · November 2012

I think she said it wasn't because of the AP because she knew that people would jump to that conclusion.

That said I wonder how she knew that didn't play a role. Makes me want to speculate about what the issue is. I know she is very religious, I wonder if her husband is too.

RioG1978 · November 2012

OP - I can see where you're coming from. I have no opinion on this particular situation as I didn't realize she was so strongly AP. But when we believe strongly in something, and then have someone who we hold to a higher standard and/or feel that they are something of an expert and we somewhat revere them... it is really hard to see them fall from that pedestal, and it makes us question our own strong beliefs.

Whether a divorce really equates a fall from the pedestal or not remains to be determined, in this case. Perhaps she and her husband will continue to be very AP and very good friends, such that there won't be a 50/50 scenario.

kittyh8r · November 2012

sooner1981:
I actually am not trying to judge AT ALL! I just think when you hold yourself out to be "the gold standard" of AP, then maybe you have invited a little additional scrutiny when you make decisions that are appear to be so clearly not kid-centric.

I realize that we don't "know her life," but she has profited by hundreds of thousands of dollars by shilling her "AP philosophies" all over talk shows, books, monetized websites, etc. I guess I am just really disappointed. It just seems like almost a waste to devote so much attention to developing "secure attachments" with your kids, only to make a decision that guarantees that you will only get to experience 50% of their future life experiences with them. Only get to respond to their emotional and physical needs 50% of the time.

If their differences truly were so "irreconcilable," don't you think they could have figured that out at least before having their second kid? Again, I would be surprised if there are any addiction/abuse issues going on because she said that they will both continue being integral parts of their children's lives.

You said this MUCH better than I could.

notkateanymore · November 2012

nosoup4u:
Kimbus22:
Semi-AP lurker chiming in
I'm in this camp. For years she has made a point to repeatedly state how "on board" her husband is with all of the AP choices "they" made. And then in her statement regarding the divorce she felt the need to state that her parenting views had absolutely nothing to do with the break up. For me, that seems like "the lady doth protest too much." I mean, why even bring it up if it's not a factor? That's just fueling the gossip fires...
Divorce sucks for everyone involved. I hope they can get along for the kids.
But she's very obviously the most public face of raising kids AP, though. Of course people are going to assume that AP has something to do with her divorce. If I were her, I'd probably put something like that in a press release, too.
I cannot get over the fact that people just assume that she's the one who decided AP is how they are going to raise their kids. The innate sexism embedded in the idea that no men would ever support or practice AP makes me sorta depressed.

I believe that assumption is based on the fact that she is the one doing the interviews and writing the books...not her STBXH.

sooner1981 · November 2012

Gastro:

You are judging. Nearly every statement you've made has been a judgement. You are absolutely entitled to have an opinion but understand that you don't know what is going on between the two of them or what they went through as a couple and what contributed to them divorcing.

People change throughout their lives. My DH is a different man today than when I first met him. For me and our relationship it has been for the better, but this isn't the case for every relationship.

Who are you to say that the only couples who divorce should be the ones who have to deal with addiction or abuse? Do you know a couple that has stuck it through for the kids? I do. Most of them end up divorcing years later anyway, after dragging their kids through their "relationship". How does it help your kids if you or your DH is unhappy? That transcends into the kids, no matter how you try to mask it or put on a brave face for the kids. Kids aren't stupid. Your statements make me think that you think kids are.

And to say AP is a waste of time if you only get to see your kids 50% of the time is ludicrous too. Maybe the other parent is just as committed to AP, even with separation. Maybe they aren't, but AP isn't just for people who spend every waking and sleeping moment with their child. AP principles work for parents who are separated, work fulltime, etc.

Okay. In my posts, I have clearly stated that I don't know what is going on in their lives. I don't pretend to know what is going on.

I was just expressing my opinion that I was surprised, given her devotion to a 100%, no-holds-barred AP lifestyle, that she and her husband would make a decision that would leave her and him with only half as much time with their kids as they are used to.

I totally agree with your comment re: how it's possible to AP part-time. I work outside the home full time. We don't co-sleep. But I do believe in trying to make child-centric decisions whenever I can, so I read AP-style articles and blogs to get good ideas/perspective, etc.

However, even though I believe it is possible to AP part time, Mayim has made it very clear in prior interviews and in her book that she doesn't subscribe to that philosophy. In their house, she and her husband don't even use babysitters or even family members to watch their children--she believes/believed that she or her husband were the only people who should care for their children, and used neurological and brain studies to try to "prove" that her style of parenting was beneficial to kids' development. That "strict" philosophy will be very hard to implement in two separate homes. I am just curious whether this situation will give rise to an entire new series of books/interviews "How to AP in Divorce," etc. Or whether she will really focus on trying to preserve as much security as she can for her kiddos, who have to be going through a tough time--given how much "family togetherness" has been emphasized in their family.

I can't convince you that I really am not judging. But really, I am not. I just wonder how she could have made the decision she did, if addiction/abuse/something equally as serious was not involved in the relationship. I guess I just can't imagine any scenario (aside from the ones listed above) where i would be okay giving up so much time with my kiddo and control over important parenting decisions with regards to their physical and emotional well being. I just truly can't. It isn't a judgment. Just a total lack of understanding at how her publically-stated views and philosophies mesh with this seemingly out of left field decision. That is all.

HattieLove · November 2012

sooner1981:
nosoup4u:
sooner1981:
Yeah, I agree that we don't know everything that went on.nbsp; It just seems like people who really care about their kids' emotional health shouldn't just throw in the towel on their relationships without seriously trying every. single. thing. they can to make their relationship work.nbsp; They made the commitment to have two kids in the past 9 years, so it seems to me that their "differences" couldn't have been too "irreconcilable." Just surprised that someone who has spent the past 9 years researching brain development, kids' emotional health, emotional/physical wellbeing, etc. would choose this path, which will almost certainly negatively impact their kiddos for the rest of their lives in myriad ways. Again, no judgment.nbsp; Just pure sadness and curiosity at what seems like a total break in character on their supposedly "kidcentric" worldview...
I think having two happy but divorced parents is much better for kids' mental health than having two parents together in an unhappy marriage. And do people sit around speculating that it was definitely CIO that lead to a divorce with a non AP couple? Why is the assumption always that cosleping is not only a see life killer, but that no "real" man would ever consent to it?

I definitely agree that kids fare better in happy divorces rather than unhappy marriages in cases of addiction, abuse, etc. But I guess I just think that one of the key tenets of AP-ing is putting your kids' needs as paramount during the relatively short period of your overall life when they rely upon you to shape their entire world view on so many important issues.

To me, unless there are the addiction, abuse, or similar issues, it just seems uncharacteristically selfish for parents who claim to be AP to produce two kids in a relatively short time period and then just decide "hey, this whole 'relationship thing' doesn't really make me as happy as I feel like it should." How can you teach secure attachment to your kids when you make the decision to pull them away from one or the other parent at all times for the rest of their childhoods? I don't know. I just don't get it. I think when you have kids, you make a commitment to put their happiness and emotional needs at the very top of yours and your husband's priority list. If that is true, then a divorce for any "convenience" reasons or because you think you might possibly be able to "do better" on a second try, just seems to be a direct violation of AP principles.

The way I see it, getting a divorce in an unhappy marriage IS putting your children first. You are a role model for your child, and if they see you settling for a relationship that is unhealthy, or loveless, or even just unhappy, than they will be more likely to do the same. Divorce doesn't ruin kid's lives. It can have negative effects, yes, but that doesn't mean it would be better for the parents to stay together.

That being said, I feel like it's a given that it's best to try and work through rough patches. But if there's no love, then there's no love, and it isn't a relationship that should continue.

InlovewithJHK · November 2012

somewhereincali:

I think she said it wasn't because of the AP because she knew that people would jump to that conclusion.

That said I wonder how she knew that didn't play a role. Makes me want to speculate about what the issue is. I know she is very religious, I wonder if her husband is too.

Her husband converted to Judism before their wedding. It is a lot for a convert to live a basically orthodox lifestyle. Speaking as a Jew. That alone could have caused stress, especially as she has grown more religious over the years. I have no idea what went on in their relationship but many things could have put stress on their marriage; AP, religion, her celebrity, work differences (she works a lot with her TV show and blogging and religious studies). It is a lot to deal with.

Shmogan09 · November 2012

TiffanyBerry:
Sometimes, even if it's not abuse/whathaveyou, it IS better for the kids if the parents divorce. Ask the grown up kids of parents who stayed politely married for the sake of their kids - it's not any better. The kids know this, especially by age 9! The kids instead see their parents less than happy, making choices that make them less than happy "for the kids", and the kids know this too. It teaches the children a lot of parents make honest choices, even when they are difficult ones, and handle them gracefully.

Actually, my parents did exactly this and I am happy they did. They are still married and I can tell they are just friends and don't really love each other much but I am really happy they have stayed together for my selfish reasons. This may sound terrible but I had to be honest because the bold statement is not true of all kids.

I can guarantee that growing up this way I will work a lot harder to keep my marriage together than other people in my life have.

And to squash a potential argument right now, I don't consider parents who are constantly fighting and yelling at each other in front of their kids to be any part of this. As a parent you need to exercise self control in front of your kids, so this should never be an issue. Even if I found out DH had an affair I can promise you my kids would never hear a word of it.

Veritas66 · November 2012

Not surprised - at all. She's kind of a freak and also ugly.

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