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Multiples
I have a bully - need a discipline book
I swore I would never need/use parenting books but twins have a way of making you do things you thought you would never do. I have already been through the sleep books with these guys and now I think I need a discipline book.
Since the time he was mobile my little guy has been a bully. I don't know where he learned it from, my oldest is the most easy going laid back guy. D would bite his brother bad enough that you could see his teeth in the bruises that would last 1+ week. Lately he has been into hair pulling, yesterday he managed to pull out a few of W's hairs. I have been putting him in time out, not sure if that works for his age but I feel like I have to do something. I am not sure it is helping, yesterday after timeout D got off his chair went looking for W and gave him a push like Elaine from Seinfeld (that was a new one). D has 2 very obvious triggers; jealously over toys or attention and frustration we he can't/isn't allowed to do something. He will take his anger out on who ever is closest, adult or kid. Usually it is my poor W.
Since we know his triggers we try to head off any retaliation but we can already tell that D is going to be a tough nut and want to implement a consistent discipline plan. Any recommendations?
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Re: I have a bully - need a discipline book
I had to start timeouts with my son around 14 mo of age. He was doing things that were potentially dangerous to him (climbing up on the tv table to push the back side of the tv. Slamming toys into the tv, pulling on the fireplace doors,etc. So, we implemented 1 minute timeouts in the pnp (we didn't really use it for naps anymore). He still gets them, but after several weeks of being consistent (and it's hard, sometimes he was in timeout 10 times a day), he finially understands the if you keep doing ABC, you are going to get a timeout. He'll stop the behavior now about 8 or 9 times out of 10.
I do not have experience with bullying yet, as I only have the one outside, but whatever you choose to do be consistent. If he gets out of timeout and immediately attacks whoever is closest, put him right back in. Explain that if he hits, bites, pushes, he will get a timeout. Eventually he'll get it. The starting point however is really exhausting.
Good luck lady, it's no fun once you have to start discplining.
TTC since May 2006. After 3 failed Clomid cycles, 2 failed Injectibles/IUIs, 2 failed IVFs and 1 failed FET, we moved on to adoption!
Last ditch FET resulted in BFP, and identical twin girls!
Does he show a steady development of empathy? That's one of the first things to pin point, to see which course of discipline might be the most effective. Does he actively try to give things to other kids/share things (i.e. initiates - kids trying to take things from him doesn't count toward this)? Does he try to comfort people when they get hurt/cry?
My oldest started experimenting with hitting around 9mo, my youngest started biting people at a year old. Both of them had moderate empathy levels.
My approach was to immediately direct their attention right to me by gently holding their faces in my hands, kneeling on their level, making eye contact, and telling them - very loudly and firmly, and with dominance - "NO. That is NOT OK. YOU DO NOT HIT/BITE. That HURTS. It's MEAN. It's NOT OK".
I spoke my words with a lot of power, no softness, no tolerance. They both cried over my reaction, but they both learned very quickly that it was absolutely unacceptable behaviour. We never used a time outs, we never spanked, we never forced apologies. Both the hitting and the biting behaviours took less than a week to eliminate per child, for us.
My approach wouldn't work for all kids - it definitely does not work for children who have not developed a sense of empathy (common with children who fall within the autism spectrum).... but it worked very well with my own children and with a good number of children I've cared for. I don't believe in physical discipline and I do not believe that redirection is a very helpful solution in the long run if it isn't coupled with reforming the actual behaviour.
Right ovary removed 09.04.2012 via vertical laparotomy
Essure implant placed on remaining tube 06.13.2013; successful followup scan 09.30.2013
Rynleigh, your post really interests me. Olivia has become a hitter, and both pull hair. She does it when she's happy and excited. Natalia will get excited and give lots of kisses, but Olivia just starts hitting. If I'm holding her I grab whichever hand she hit with and say "No! We don't hit!" and then she'll usually do it with the other hand so I'll do the same and if she tries to do it again I put her down and say "I can't hold you if you're going to hit". It doesn't seem to faze her at all.
I feel like they both know when they do something wrong to an extent because when they go to pull each others hair if I'm around they look at me first like they're waiting for me to say no. A couple of weeks ago when I would say no they wouldn't do it, now they do it anyway so I tell them no and separate them. I have no idea what I'm doing wrong and why they used to listen when I said no and now don't anymore.
The pack and play is a good idea b/c he can't escape but we have been using it as a ball pit so he thinks being in there is fun.
I totally do the super nanny technique with him. Telling him in a loud stern voice NO HIT OR BITE, GENTLE. Sometimes he laughs but he ususally will ignore me and won't look me in the eye when I am reprimanding him ('if I don't look at you this isn't really happening') After timeout (which never lasts more than a minute) I will take him to his brother and say 'sorry.'
Interesting point about empathy. The other 2 clearly show empathy but my D does not (he is also not nearly as verbal). After things have settled down he will come over for a cuddle, it feels like he is trying to say sorry and get reassurance that I still love him but I can be cuddling him and W will come over and quick like a cat he will reach out and give W a good tug on his hair.
Recently I will play with D by naming the parts of my face and he will point to them. As expected he got over excited and tugged my hair. Quickly I said OUCH and tugged his hair. I told him NO OUCHIE FOR MOMMY GENTLE and showed him how to gently stroke my hair. It definetely seemed like he was processing that and now will gently stroke my hair when I tell him Gentle. I definetely don't want to retaliate everytime he breaks the rules but that seemed to make an impression on him.
@Jen, every baby is totally different, and some even see it as a game. It may just be that your kids don't take it seriously because they are having fun or they don't really feel that you are upset with them. I'm generally a very happy and casual person with my kids, and when I'm genuinely upset with my kids, I don't hide it - so they have always had a very good sense of whether "Mom means it!" or not.
@Hopeful, definitely watch those signs - reduced empathy, verbal delay, and lack of eye contact are all good observations to bring to his pedi, as they all fall into the classic symptoms of mild autism. The autism spectrum is very wide, and it is so much better to catch any sign of it early in life because there are so many wonderful tools out there to help children with those struggles really take control of their lives.
Some other signs to watch for would be if he starts doing anything similar to hitting himself, if he stacks/sorts/lines up toys regularly, if he prefers to play alone more than with the other boys, if redirection or change in schedule make him angry or distressed, etc.
Autism isn't "growing" or becoming more common, but diagnosis and treatment are so much more prevalent now because parents are learning what to look for and don't waste as much time, now, pretending that their children are just stubbourn or rebellious. Early intervention and learning can make such a huge difference for kids.
Have you tried similarly showing him to kiss instead of bite? If he's responding better to replacement behaviour than he is to emotion, that could be another tool to add. My approach with cradling my girls' faces in my hands is less effective with children who are less empathetic - but something you can try is taking *his* hand, and putting it on your face - to help him redirect his own attention through physical empathy - similar to how you would have done with your hair. Possibly do the same with his siblings and place his hand against their faces when he's taken a toy from them or pushed them, to direct his attention to their faces and help him focus on their distress - move the toy back toward the other child and ask "Can we play with the toy please?", and encourage the other child to release the toy back to him. Little things like that may help him understand that there are other options besides just taking and pushing and hitting.
Right ovary removed 09.04.2012 via vertical laparotomy
Essure implant placed on remaining tube 06.13.2013; successful followup scan 09.30.2013
At his 15 month appt his pediatrician said he was a little behind in his verbal so of course I did a bunch of autism self diagnosis questionairres for toddlers and for all of the questions he scored perfect. In the moment of conflict he will withdraw (like Daddy...) but at other times he is fine. My gut tells me I don't have to worry about autism.
Your last paragraph resonated. It seems to me that he fights fire with fire. When he gets in trouble he will often look for another naughty thing to do. I think rather than remove him from a situation when he has misbehaved I will have him act out the correct way that he should have responded and see how that goes. Great suggestion, thanks!
That's probably true. I try to use a firm tone of voice, but I could probably be more severe with it. H isn't very good at his firm voice yet, and I keep telling him he needs to work on that. And both of us sometimes have a hard time not laughing. They're just so tiny and adorable and sometimes it's just really funny to watch them, but we want to nip this in the bud as quickly as possible and need to be better about it.