Who is in the wrong? Long

NM86 · October 2012

Background: DH an BM have SD 5 50/50 everything and equal nights a week. They do the 2/5/5/2 thing. But I watch SD all week while BM and DH are working. DH works early and so is able to come home early enough to pick SD up from school every day. So we have SD just about every day. Plus BM works weekends so DH has her even on Bm's weekends.

Okay so this past Sunday BM said she had to work. Since she is going out of town for a week and we will miss 2 of our overnights, she suggested we keep SD Saturday night to make up for one of the nights and that she gets off work at 4 on Sunday and will pick her up at that time.

So all is going good. We keep SD on BM's night which means we will have had SD every weekend in October then on Sunday planned to go to a little fall fest thing at the local garden center. We went to the pumpkin patch the previous weekend and plan to go to an early trick or treat thing for a charity at a local park this upcoming weekend.

Anyway, while we were on our way to the fall fest BM texts DH and says she is getting off work early and will be at our house at 3. DH said we will be home at 4 since that is when she told us she is of work and we have plans. Well BM threw a fit saying it was her day and so she is getting SD at 3. DH told her our plans and she said she will meet us there at 3. DH said that it wasn't fair because he already told SD and we were just about at the fall fest. BM said she had plans as well and she would get her at 3. So it went back and forth and DH finally said fine. He texted her, 'it's fine. You can get her at 3 we will meet you outside. It's okay. I'm used to being the bad guy in SD's eyes so now that we told her she was going to have fun and play games she won't.' We were able to pick out a pumpkin to carve and took a few pics of the kids, but BM showed up even earlier than 3 and demanded that DH meet her out front.

Needless to say it was horrible and made us upset.

Now it was BM's day so I guess she could argue that she can come get her no matter what our plans were.

But on DH'a side he is like a free babysitter to BM. He and I watch SD on Bm's days all the time. She never thanks us or is greatful. She acts like it's expected. He said he wants to tell her to get her own child care on her days and that will be the end of it.

But SD had issues with consistency and we've noticed that she is doing well in school now that I watch her full time. Before that both sets of grandparents watched her for a day each during the week and she struggled with being shuffled every where.

We could just not go anywhere when we watch her for BM, but that's not realistic. DH thinks that BM was fine to let us have SD every weekend this month and that when SD told her our plans and what we did during our time she got jealous and realized she couldn't do anything like that because she already gave us all her weekends. Guess where they went after BM picked up SD? The pumpkin patch. It's a far drive and SD said they couldn't do much because BM didn't bring SD's jacket and it was cold and closing soon.

Ugh. It's just annoying. But I get it WAS BM's day.

So what's your take on the situation? How do we prevent it from happening again?

UberBiz · October 2012

Even though it was technically her weekend, I think she was in the wrong for changing plans at the last minute like that when you had agreed that you would have SD for that weekend and that she'd pick her up at 4. You made plans to be back by 4, I don't see anything wrong with that. I would have made her wait til 4. It was only an hour difference. And it wasn't your fault she was out of work early, so yeah it was probably inconvenient for her, but realistically, 4 was the agreement and she shouldn't get bent out of shape when last minute changes don't work out.

blush64 · October 2012

NM86:
But on DH'a side he is like a free babysitter to BM. He and I watch SD on Bm's days all the time. She never thanks us or is greatful. She acts like it's expected. He said he wants to tell her to get her own child care on her days and that will be the end of it. But SD had issues with consistency and we've noticed that she is doing well in school now that I watch her full time. Before that both sets of grandparents watched her for a day each during the week and she struggled with being shuffled every where. We could just not go anywhere when we watch her for BM, but that's not realistic. DH thinks that BM was fine to let us have SD every weekend this month and that when SD told her our plans and what we did during our time she got jealous and realized she couldn't do anything like that because she already gave us all her weekends. Guess where they went after BM picked up SD? The pumpkin patch. It's a far drive and SD said they couldn't do much because BM didn't bring SD's jacket and it was cold and closing soon. Ugh. It's just annoying. But I get it WAS BM's day. So what's your take on the situation? How do we prevent it from happening again?

First, you can't babysit your own child. He is not a free babysitter, he's her father. I know where you're coming from but I think it would be wrong to refuse to watch her when he can just to spite BM. What he would be doing is hurting his daughter. Rather than a thank you from BM, which probably won't happen I think the reward is what you just mentioned, she is doing better now that you watch her more.

I think it was wrong for BM to do that. There were plans made because she gave up the day. I don't know how to prevent it from happening. Maybe your husband could just tell her if she gives up a day and he is watching her then he will not be able to drop all your plans if BM changes her mind last minute.

NM86 · October 2012

On BM's days that we watch her, it's usually from 85:30 or 6. That's what was so weird about Sunday her only working until 4 and then saying she was done early and ended up getting her at 2:30.

DH thinks she wasn't working at all. Which happens all the time. BM says she works almost every day, yet more often than not if DH needs to call her at work he is told she isn't working that day.

Holly_1007 · October 2012

your DH is kind of a pushover to be honest.... he shouldn't have told BM where you guys were, and should have told her he had plans and to stick to the original time. nothing you can do about it, your DH needs to stand up to BM when she makes ridiculous demands like this. I agree, it was her day technically, and had she said a week prior "hey, I need to change pick up to 3 instead of 4" that's not a big deal, but a few hours before? no way.

NM86 · October 2012

I didn't mean that he babysits her. I meant that I do. I care for her when they are working. Sorry for my wording.

Of course he should have her when he can and he does. He is her father, so when he has her it's not babysitting, it's being a parent.

But BM treats him like a free babysitting service too.

She always 'works' and drops her off here and then we find out later she was out at a bar. That's fine for her and she can do whatever she wants, but she acts like it's expected and we have to drop everything we are doing to mett her needs. And then it's irritating when we are doing something or are out and about and BM decides she is ready to have her daughter.

blush64 · October 2012

NM86:
I didn't mean that he babysits her. I meant that I do. I care for her when they are working. Sorry for my wording. Of course he should have her when he can and he does. He is her father, so when he has her it's not babysitting, it's being a parent. But BM treats him like a free babysitting service too. She always 'works' and drops her off here and then we find out later she was out at a bar. That's fine for her and she can do whatever she wants, but she acts like it's expected and we have to drop everything we are doing to mett her needs. And then it's irritating when we are doing something or are out and about and BM decides she is ready to have her daughter.

Don't rearrange everything to meet her needs. Watching SD when there's nothing going on is one thing. Cancelling plans to watch her isn't necessary and you don't have to do that.

Don't give in anymore. If you are out and doing something let BM know you won't be able to bring her back early. Don't let her ruin plans anymore. If you are sitting at home, fine. But if you are out somewhere let her know you will have her back at the time you agreed on.

NM86 · October 2012

blush64:

NM86:
I didn't mean that he babysits her. I meant that I do. I care for her when they are working. Sorry for my wording. Of course he should have her when he can and he does. He is her father, so when he has her it's not babysitting, it's being a parent. But BM treats him like a free babysitting service too. She always 'works' and drops her off here and then we find out later she was out at a bar. That's fine for her and she can do whatever she wants, but she acts like it's expected and we have to drop everything we are doing to mett her needs. And then it's irritating when we are doing something or are out and about and BM decides she is ready to have her daughter.

Don't rearrange everything to meet her needs. Watching SD when there's nothing going on is one thing. Cancelling plans to watch her isn't necessary and you don't have to do that.

Don't give in anymore. If you are out and doing something let BM know you won't be able to bring her back early. Don't let her ruin plans anymore. If you are sitting at home, fine. But if you are out somewhere let her know you will have her back at the time you agreed on.

Maybe it's a DH problem. He is a pushover. I will talk to him about it and see what he says. I'm not going to tell him, 'hey you're a pushover stop doing that" but more along the lines of 'This isn't working. What happend Sunday was wrong. Let's discuss how to approach it in the future". Poor DH. I feel bad for him.

NM86 · October 2012

MelRC117:

NM86:
On BM's days that we watch her, it's usually from 85:30 or 6. That's what was so weird about Sunday her only working until 4 and then saying she was done early and ended up getting her at 2:30. DH thinks she wasn't working at all. Which happens all the time. BM says she works almost every day, yet more often than not if DH needs to call her at work he is told she isn't working that day.

This is ridiculous. She is using you guys and knowing that since its the best interest of SD, that it would look bad if you refused. I would not watch my SC on days that are not my DH's if she wasn't working when she said she was. If it happened one time, DH would have to tell her that we will not be a free drop off daycare for her. If it happened again, that's it we are done. Essentially your DH is having more time, which is good, but its all revolving around HER schedule and convenience. If she feels like having SD she will, if not she will "work" and use you and your H. If any type of child support is exchanged from DH to BM I would not be happy since it seems you guys have more like 75/25. Its sad it gets down to money, but BM is seriously taking advantage of you guys.

I agree! But it's like you said, DH would feel guilty if he did anything to change it.

But we don't owe her any child support. DH pays for SD's medical insurance and when he got divorced he would have only had to pay like $75 a month. Instead they said he could just provide her insurance and not have to pay BM child support. But last year DH might have had to move to another state for his job and he asked BM for her tax information so he could calculate the child support if he didn't have SD. Well we ended up not having to move. But he was curious what he would owe BM if they redid the child support now and she would actullay owe him money. Only like $65 a month, but still. BM made sure to let DH know that she would take him to court for the 'full amount' if we did have to move. So once he did the child support calculator for how things are now, he let her know that he 'won't make her pay him'. It was funny. BM did not like that one bit. DH makes more than her but since I am a SAHM and DH has our DS too and pays for SDs medical insurance she ends up owing him.

Plus, we keep a log of all the time DH has SD so if she did ever try to take him to court or get things changed we have proof that he has her more than BM. It's supposed to be 50/50 and the courts only count the nights (which BM makes sure to have her on her nights even if she drops her off to us at 8am and then picks her up with only enough time to eat dinner and go to sleep) but I'm pretty sure whoever has the most parenting time (days included) is considered the custodial parent.

J&A2008 · October 2012

BM gave you the day, she set the time at 4. She can ASK you if she can get SD earlier if her plans change, but in no way are you and DH in the wrong to continue your day as you had planned and get SD back to her at the agreed upon time.

Most COs that I know give the EOW or whatever plans, but give a clause that says "or other dates to which BM/BF agree" or something. You should check yours, but even if it's not in there, I can't imagine a judge siding with her on this one day.

J&A2008 · October 2012

To address PP's criticisms that you and DH should not take so much parenting time - I say DO IT. And document, each and every time BM voluntarily gives up parenting time. If you ever end up back in court, it will be useful.

Littlejen22 · October 2012

I have not read the replies. She was wrong doing that to her kid. But he is her father and not child care and is lucky to get extra time. He could have just asked BM to join you, she might have said no but he could have offered. And I do not understand the coat situation, it was cold so didn't you guys have a jacket for her? If you did not have a jacket and it was getting too cold wouldn't you have to leave too?

NM86 · October 2012

Littlejen22:
I have not read the replies. She was wrong doing that to her kid. But he is her father and not child care and is lucky to get extra time. He could have just asked BM to join you, she might have said no but he could have offered. And I do not understand the coat situation, it was cold so didn't you guys have a jacket for her? If you did not have a jacket and it was getting too cold wouldn't you have to leave too?

Yes, I worded it funny. I meant to say I am the childcare/babysitter but DH is not and we understand that. He is a parent. He loves all the extra time he gets to have with SD. (was addressed in the replies, sorry for the bad wording)

As far as the coat thing. We went to a fall fest at a garden center in town where we live and it was in the mid 70s. So we didn't need a coat. But BM took SD to the pumpkin patch (the same one which we had been to the weekend before, we were not there when all this happend, it was at the falll fest) an hour away and by the time they got there it was getting dark and it as chilly up near there all day and windy.

socloudy99 · October 2012

Yeah she was wrong to get mad.

If she found out she was getting off early it is fine to ask. You guys may have been hanging around the house and it would be no big deal.

Since you were out at the most I would offer for her to pick up at 3:30 assuming you would have started packing up by then to make it home by 4.

When she starts having a fit your DH needs to state "we are adult parents and lets discuss this as such" everytime she starts throwing a fit. Maybe it will sink in at some point.

Littlejen22 · October 2012

NM86:
MelRC117:

NM86:
On BM's days that we watch her, it's usually from 85:30 or 6. That's what was so weird about Sunday her only working until 4 and then saying she was done early and ended up getting her at 2:30. DH thinks she wasn't working at all. Which happens all the time. BM says she works almost every day, yet more often than not if DH needs to call her at work he is told she isn't working that day.

This is ridiculous.  She is using you guys and knowing that since its the best interest of SD, that it would look bad if you refused.  I would not watch my SC on days that are not my DH's if she wasn't working when she said she was.  If it happened one time, DH would have to tell her that we will not be a free drop off daycare for her.  If it happened again, that's it we are done.  Essentially your DH is having more time, which is good, but its all revolving around HER schedule and convenience.  If she feels like having SD she will, if not she will "work" and use you and your H.  If any type of child support is exchanged from DH to BM I would not be happy since it seems you guys have more like 75/25.  Its sad it gets down to money, but BM is seriously taking advantage of you guys.

I agree! But it's like you said, DH would feel guilty if he did anything to change it.

But we don't owe her any child support. DH pays for SD's medical insurance and when he got divorced he would have only had to  pay like $75 a month. Instead they said he could just provide her insurance and not have to pay BM child support. But last year DH might have had to move to another state for his job and he asked BM for her tax information so he could calculate the child support if he didn't have SD. Well we ended up not having to move. But he was curious what he would owe BM if they redid the child support now and she would actullay owe him money. Only like $65 a month, but still. BM made sure to let DH know that she would take him to court for the 'full amount' if we did have to move. So once he did the child support calculator for how things are now, he let her know that he 'won't make her pay him'. It was funny. BM did not like that one bit. DH makes more than her but since I am a SAHM and DH has our DS too and pays for SDs medical insurance she ends up owing him.

Plus, we keep a log of all the time DH has SD so if she did ever try to take him to court or get things changed we have proof that he has her more than BM. It's supposed to be 50/50 and the courts only count the nights (which BM makes sure to have her on her nights even if she drops her off to us at 8am and then picks her up with only enough time to eat dinner and go to sleep) but I'm pretty sure whoever has the most parenting time (days included) is considered the custodial parent.

Stop saying you are babysitting and then calling it parenting time when it is convenient.

NM86 · October 2012

If you have nothing helpful to post, then please don't.

I already explained that I worded it wrong.

When talking to BM and in our daily interactions, she does not see my taking care of SD as parenting time. She sees it as me being her caregiver until either her or DH is with SD. The courts are the same way. My watching SD has nothing to do with BM or DH's parenting time, and as such...I refered to it as 'babysitting'. Just because I happen to be DH's wife, does not make it his parenting time when he is at work and I have her.

It is considered parenting time when her father or mother has her. Since I am neither, in the courts eyes, and BM's eyes, my having her and caring for her alone when DH is not home does not 'count'.

So next time please read the entire thread (yes I know it is long...I tend to ramble and write a lot of background into my posts) before you respond. And again, I would appreciate it if it was helpful.

twister22 · October 2012

NM86:
......Okay so this past Sunday BM said she had to work. Since she is going out of town for a week and we will miss 2 of our overnights, she suggested we keep SD Saturday night to make up for one of the nights and that she gets off work at 4 on Sunday and will pick her up at that time. So all is going good. We keep SD on BM's night which means we will have had SD every weekend in October then on Sunday planned to go to a little fall fest thing at the local garden center. We went to the pumpkin patch the previous weekend and plan to go to an early trick or treat thing for a charity at a local park this upcoming weekend. Anyway, while we were on our way to the fall fest BM texts DH and says she is getting off work early and will be at our house at 3. DH said we will be home at 4 since that is when she told us she is of work and we have plans. Well BM threw a fit saying it was her day and so she is getting SD at 3. DH told her our plans and she said she will meet us there at 3. DH said that it wasn't fair because he already told SD and we were just about at the fall fest. BM said she had plans as well and she would get her at 3. So it went back and forth and DH finally said fine. He texted her, 'it's fine. You can get her at 3 we will meet you outside. It's okay. I'm used to being the bad guy in SD's eyes so now that we told her she was going to have fun and play games she won't.' We were able to pick out a pumpkin to carve and took a few pics of the kids, but BM showed up even earlier than 3 and demanded that DH meet her out front.........So what's your take on the situation? How do we prevent it from happening again?

I think if you guys would have been hanging out at home, then BM would have been in the right to come pick SD up. But, you guys had made plans and were headed out, so I think it was unfair of BM to expect you to drop everything because her plans had changed. If I were in this situation, I would have ignored the text and then sent her a text when you were on your way home "Sorry, I just got your text, we were at the pumpkin patch. We're headed home now, we'll see you at 4, as planned."

fellesferie · October 2012

NM86:

I agree! But it's like you said, DH would feel guilty if he did anything to change it.

But we don't owe her any child support. DH pays for SD's medical insurance and when he got divorced he would have only had to pay like $75 a month. Instead they said he could just provide her insurance and not have to pay BM child support. But last year DH might have had to move to another state for his job and he asked BM for her tax information so he could calculate the child support if he didn't have SD. Well we ended up not having to move. But he was curious what he would owe BM if they redid the child support now and she would actullay owe him money. Only like $65 a month, but still. BM made sure to let DH know that she would take him to court for the 'full amount' if we did have to move. So once he did the child support calculator for how things are now, he let her know that he 'won't make her pay him'. It was funny. BM did not like that one bit. DH makes more than her but since I am a SAHM and DH has our DS too and pays for SDs medical insurance she ends up owing him.

Plus, we keep a log of all the time DH has SD so if she did ever try to take him to court or get things changed we have proof that he has her more than BM. It's supposed to be 50/50 and the courts only count the nights (which BM makes sure to have her on her nights even if she drops her off to us at 8am and then picks her up with only enough time to eat dinner and go to sleep) but I'm pretty sure whoever has the most parenting time (days included) is considered the custodial parent.

First, I think BM was wrong to insist on getting SD back after asking you guys to take care of her. You would have been 100% right to make her wait until 4pm.

Second, I'm kind of confused by what you said here. Are you saying you have SD more than 50/50 not including the time when you babysit her? Because I don't think including that time would be appropriate.

I also think you're wrong about child support. If you moved, wouldn't BM be the custodial parent by default? I've never heard of a state requiring the custodial parent pay the noncustodial parent child support.

NM86 · October 2012

fellesferie:

First, I think BM was wrong to insist on getting SD back after asking you guys to take care of her. You would have been 100% right to make her wait until 4pm.

Second, I'm kind of confused by what you said here. Are you saying you have SD more than 50/50 not including the time when you babysit her? Because I don't think including that time would be appropriate.

I also think you're wrong about child support. If you moved, wouldn't BM be the custodial parent by default? I've never heard of a state requiring the custodial parent pay the noncustodial parent child support.

Let me clarify. DH does have SD 50/50. But that only goes by the overnights, as the courts would do it. He has SD about 70/30 during the day time, not including the time I watch her.

I know the day time that DH has SD has nothing to do with anything. In our state if they have SD 50/50 everything, the custodial parent is the one who has residential responsibility for SD. Like whose address is used for medical and school related things. That is DH. So technically he is the custodial parent. We never say it or bring it up because it doens't affect anything. But let's say BM took us to court for some reason to try and get more days or to try and move and take SD with her or whatever. Then we could bring up the fact that we have SD more often and how she 'works' but is actually out and we have SD instead. Then we would have a good defense of why she couldn't/shouldn't. (Not sure how it all works since DH has never been back to court since their divorce 4 years ago, so I am going by what I've seen/heard on here and from friends/family experience. But having proof of everything doesn't hurt right?)

And yes, if we had moved he would have had to pay her child support and she would be the custodial parent. But we didn't end up having to move. I said we then used the information she gave us (when DH asked for it originally to see how much he would have to pay had we moved) to calculate how much we would owe her if she took us to court to ask for child support now. That's when he found out that she would end up paying him child support if things stayed the way they are right now.

I know it's confusing...I rambled a lot in my original post. Sorry Tongue Tied

Littlejen22 · October 2012

After my post you explained, "He has SD about 70/30 during the day time, not including the time I watch her." Without this information it appeared you were including the time you are with the child as part of his parenting time, at the same time as saying it is babysitting when the child is you. Sorry for my assumption.

SueBear · October 2012

holly71087:
your DH is kind of a pushover to be honest.... he shouldn't have told BM where you guys were, and should have told her he had plans and to stick to the original time. nothing you can do about it, your DH needs to stand up to BM when she makes ridiculous demands like this. I agree, it was her day technically, and had she said a week prior "hey, I need to change pick up to 3 instead of 4" that's not a big deal, but a few hours before? no way.

Ditto this. Your DH is a pushover. You KNOW what BM is like. Why do you "share" your fun plans with her? Why tell her "we are at the XYZ pumpkin farm right now....."?

He should tell her "we are out and won't be back until 4 pm. We are not revolving our family (including you and LO) plans around you. We will meet you at the agreed upon time at our home."

I also think he is passive aggressive "Oh, sure, make ME the bad guy." You know what? He IS the bad guy, because his lack of b*lls is the reason that the plans of YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY was messed up. He needs to learn to keep his mouth shut AND stand up to BM. If BM gets angry - what is she going to do? Stop leaving SD with you when she "needs a break" and doesn't feel like watching SD? Start paying for a regular sitter? Doubtful.

You can't change BM, but your H can change his actions / reactions.

SueBear · October 2012

dup

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