All this sleep training talk...

FancyFrenchie · October 2012

We never sleep trained DS. From birth to 3 months, he slept like a dream - seriously a 2 months, he would sleep 10-11 hrs and I wouldn't hear a peep from him. He was happy, rested, growing well, etc. At 3 months, he got really sick and was in the hospital for 2 weeks. I never left his side, we continued BFing, but his sleep went out the window. He would wake 8-12 times a night. He would not fall asleep without me. A few weeks after having gone back to work, I gave up trying to get him to sleep at least a part of the night in this crib and we went to full-time bed-sharing. At 18 months, we got him a big boy bed. He was happy with it, BUT: we did and still have to lay down with him until he is complately asleep. This takes minimum an hour and can take 2 hours. He has a calm bedtime routine, he just loves to keep talking, singing, rolling around, etc. Then, around 1am he wakes up crying for us and comes to our bed.

I get frustrated many nights because I know he needs more sleep. We have to wake up at a certain time for me to get to work, so he should be asleep by a certain time. But it doesn't make a difference. If I lay him down at 7:30pm, he falls asleep at 9pm. If I lay him down at 8pm, it's 9 or 9:30pm, if I lay him down at 6:30pm, it's 9pm... if it's after 8pm, he'll fall asleep at 9:30pm or later and he's a bear this next morning.

So, I love the cuddles, but it's so much time and it's not like I can enjoy it because I'm worrying about him not getting enough sleep and then I can't have dinner, take a shower, get anything done until later and then since I'm going to be woken up at 1am, it's only a few hours of un-interrupted sleep...

Any advice, thoughts, etc.?

aglenn · October 2012

I had to stop laying down with DD because, (1) she would take forever like you are describing by singing and talking and carrying on, and (2) I had her brother on the way and knew that wasn't going to be an option, especially when DH travels (which is a lot). I started by just getting up after a while and telling her I had to go to the bathroom, or go put on my PJs, or whatever and I would come back in a few minutes. I did come back, and often she would be asleep. If not, I'd lie back down for a little while and then go do something else again, and come back and check. Most of the time she would be asleep if I left her alone for 5 minutes or so, so we did that for a while and worked gradually towards staying less and less time before getting up to leave. Now I am able to just read her stories, tuck her in, and say goodnight. If she is not sleepy she can read a book or play her musical aquarium thing in her bed until she goes to sleep. She still asks me to lie down with her all the time, but she doesn't get upset when I don't.

Angela814 · October 2012

What time do you have to wake him up in the morning?

I found that DD1 would only sleep 10 hours at night. No matter what I did, she slept 10 hours. In bed at 9pm - she woke up at 7am. In bed at 8pm - she woke up at 6pm. Whatever sleep she wasn't getting at night, she made up for with her naps. She was never unhappy or crabby because she was tired. Her growth has always been good. She's always on par with or ahead of her peers for milestones.

As soon as she started climbing out of her crib (at 22 months), I had to start laying down with her to get her to sleep. We tried so many different things, but for some reason she still needed me to be there.

Have you read Sleepless in America? I really enjoyed the book. There's not a lot of black and white solutions, but it's a good book about how sleep works. There's a window of time when a child should be able to fall asleep relatively quickly. If you miss that, then bedtime is much more difficult. There are also a lot of things that we do that tend to disrupt sleep or make sleep more difficult. Watching TV before bed is one of them. Certain foods can make sleep more difficult. It was really eye opening for me.

I also learned the importance of having a good solid bedtime routine. It doesn't have to be long, but it's helpful to do the same things in the same order every night.

DD2 is at the point now where she generally just wants me to lay her in her crib at bedtime, but I need to sit next to her and hold her hand while she falls asleep. I figure it's a good step in the right direction for us. Usually I fall asleep in the bean bag next to her bed. ;-) I've just learned to get ready for bed while DH does bath time so that I can just go to sleep with her if I need to.

ETA: I did the same approach as aglenn with DD1. I tried when she was around 3 yo, but it didn't work then. At 4 yo it worked sometimes, and by 5 yo I could just tuck her in and tell her I'd check on her after her sister was asleep.

FancyFrenchie · October 2012

He has to get up at 7am, but since he feels DH and I start stirring around 6:30am, he's usually up by 6:40am.

I know he needs more sleep because on weekends he'll sleep until 7:20-7:40am and wake up much happier! During the week, he wakes up fussy and every little thing sets him off.

I've tried longer naps, shorter naps, earlier naps, later naps, no naps and the only thing that works is no naps (and not even then always!), but he'll fall asleep easier but then be up 2 hours later thinking it's time to get up.

If I try to get up, say just "I'm going to the bathroom", sometimes he'll stay in bed, but if I'm not back in 2-3 mins, he'll start calling for me; and other times he won't stay in bed and he'll follow me to the bathroom. If I close the door to his room, he just gets hysterical.

So it's just a question of waiting till he's older? :-( I've been waiting a year! And we plan on having #2 next year and I just don't know how it would be doable then!

Angela814 · October 2012

FancyFrenchie:
He has to get up at 7am, but since he feels DH and I start stirring around 6:30am, he's usually up by 6:40am.

I know he needs more sleep because on weekends he'll sleep until 7:20-7:40am and wake up much happier! During the week, he wakes up fussy and every little thing sets him off.

I've tried longer naps, shorter naps, earlier naps, later naps, no naps and the only thing that works is no naps (and not even then always!), but he'll fall asleep easier but then be up 2 hours later thinking it's time to get up.

If I try to get up, say just "I'm going to the bathroom", sometimes he'll stay in bed, but if I'm not back in 2-3 mins, he'll start calling for me; and other times he won't stay in bed and he'll follow me to the bathroom. If I close the door to his room, he just gets hysterical.

So it's just a question of waiting till he's older? :-( I've been waiting a year! And we plan on having #2 next year and I just don't know how it would be doable then!

For DD1, yes, that's the only thing that worked. I'm hoping that since DD2 will be sharing a room with DD1, that will help us get her to sleep when the baby comes.

DD2 wakes up for the day whenever I get out of bed too. Luckily I work 2 days/week at the most, so she usually gets up at 7:30 when I have to wake up DD1. DH's alarm clock wakes her up some days, but usually she'll nurse and go back to sleep for a little bit. That's really our only problem with cosleeping. I think I'm just lucky that she'll nap as long as she needs to to make up for any lack of night time sleep.

ncbelle · October 2012

Have you read the No Cry Sleep Solution (she has a toddler version too) - I think it's worth a look because she addresses some ways you can move away from sitting with kiddo as he falls asleep if that's what needs to happen to prevent the bedtime stalling. Callum went through a phase of doing that as well. I'm honestly not sure what changed finally but now he goes to sleep in a few minutes most nights even if we sit with him.

What's his nap schedule like? Maybe that needs to be changed up so he is sleepy for bedtime. Does he get lots of physical activity in the afternoons?

sadsadie · October 2012

I'd put a time limit on how long he can be in bed with you. My parents always did this; if I came to them in the night in need of comfort, I got that, but thenI got put back in my own bed after about half an hour or so. You need to explain that you want to comfort him, but you also need your sleep and don't want him in your bed all night. If all goes well he will eventually get the message and just stay put in his big boy bed.

Good luck!

nosoup4u · October 2012

What time does he get up for the day? Does he still nap? Do you have some sort of noise machine so he can't hear you and your DH when you guys get up? We swear by noise machines for everyone in our family...

I think "Good Night, Sleep Tight" by Kim West talks about moving yourself physically away from the kid gradually - they eventually fall asleep with you sitting right outside the door. I think her method can be slowed down quite a bit for the kid's comfort, too. Maybe try to start a limit on how close you'll be near him - first patting his back, then work your way out to only holding hands, etc.

As for the night waking, I'm no help. My younger son wakes up between 1-3 am without fail almost every night, and it's killing me. He does stay in his room, though, will your DS go back to sleep in his own bed after he wakes up?

bandwife · October 2012

One thing that worked for us was sitting in a chair by our son's bed. We read stories in the bed and then moved out of it to a chair right within arms length

I actually brought my laptop in and worked while DS rolled around, sang to himself and then asked me for water a half dozen times. It took a few weeks but he slowly started going to sleep quicker and quicker. Now it's usually about five minutes for him to go to sleep and he usually asks that whomever is in the chair hold his hand while he falls asleep.

Our son really needed the security of one of us being there as he fell asleep but my DH and I were really burned out on laying in bed with him for 1-2 hrs to get him to sleep. I was also super touched out, DH too, because DS always wanted to put a hand down our shirts while he was falling asleep.

Just an idea for you. I know how frustrating the super long bed time is. Been there and, probably, about to be there again. Wink

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