What I hate about sleep training

Angela814 · October 2012

I understand it works for some families. I don't really care who chooses to sleep train/CIO and who doesn't.

I hate the notion that if your 1 yo or 2 yo or 3 yo doesn't STTN, you MUST sleep train them.

Why?

I keep seeing more and more advice like that, and it makes me so upset. Sometimes people just want to know they're not alone; they don't want to be told that they're a bad parent for not sleep training.

Emerald27 · October 2012

My mom has never understood our parenting philosophy and has asked me several times at what age we'll think it is appropriate to let our son cry...because at some point we'll want to end bed-sharing, and CIO in his own room in his bed is how that's done, right? I've heard so many times, "is it at 4 months that it is ok to leave your baby to cry?", "at 6 months?" etc etc

My mom still disapproves of the urgency with which I respond to my son, as though I am overburdening and inconveniencing myself while simultaneously creating a spoiled brat. :P

aglenn · October 2012

The popular wisdom seems to be that sleep is a skill you have to teach, or else the child will never ever sleep on his/her own. I give that a huge side eye, as sleep is a basic bodily function and I'm pretty sure humans were sleeping long before Ferber wrote a book about it.... Plus I don't get what the connection is between crying and healthy sleep in the first place. But what do I know, my kids are not early STTNers by any means, so I have no cred.

bandwife · October 2012

aglenn:
The popular wisdom seems to be that sleep is a skill you have to teach, or else the child will never ever sleep on his/her own. I give that a huge side eye, as sleep is a basic bodily function and I'm pretty sure humans were sleeping long before Ferber wrote a book about it.... Plus I don't get what the connection is between crying and healthy sleep in the first place. But what do I know, my kids are not early STTNers by any means, so I have no cred.

All of this.

DS started STTN at 2.5 yrs. He had some breathing issues that we think were preventing him from STTN (surgery fixed them) but even before that getting him to sleep was a long, long process.

Now we read a book in bed, I or DH sit on a chair next to his bed and hold his hand, and he is asleep in 5 mins. He STTN 5 or 6 nights a week and if he does wake up at 11pm or 3am he is usually pretty easy to get back to sleep.

It's very NORMAL for young children not to STTN. Some people luck out with good sleepers, some people sleep train and a lot of people don't talk about how their kids don't STTN.

acbfreire · October 2012

aglenn:
The popular wisdom seems to be that sleep is a skill you have to teach, or else the child will never ever sleep on his/her own. I give that a huge side eye, as sleep is a basic bodily function and I'm pretty sure humans were sleeping long before Ferber wrote a book about it.... Plus I don't get what the connection is between crying and healthy sleep in the first place. But what do I know, my kids are not early STTNers by any means, so I have no cred.

I have been gravitating towards this board more and more. I do not like to see my daughter uncomfortable or crying. If she is crying, she must need something. Why is the need of physical closeness so "bad"? It is almost as if they hit a magical age and we go "no, you don't need a hug, you are spoiled". I am not into sleep training either. Pedi told me to CIO. DD is 4 mo, I won't. She sleeps like a baby: some nights are great, some are not.

I just hate the pressure to have an independent baby - I believe she'll do it when she's ready. Sorry, venting here!

alliecat1234 · October 2012

I just hate the whole line that you are doing a disservice to your child by not teaching them to be able to fall asleep on their own. That is what makes me think twice about my approach (co-sleeping after first wake up at night) because sometimes I do question whether I am taking the "easy way out" by just bringing him into bed with me. But then I think again that he is only 4 months old -- why is it important for him to know how to get himself back to sleep in the middle of the night right now? I am 33 and wake up sometimes in the middle of the night and can't get myself back to sleep, so how can I expect for him to learn that at this age?

chardonnay24 · October 2012

We sleep trained because he wasn't sleeping. At all. No amount of rocking, cuddling, or soothing could get him to sleep. He was tired, cranky, and getting sick a lot. Since he hadn't needed to eat during the night since 3 months, that wasn't the issue and we tried EVERYTHING before we sleep trained. I think some people forget that uninterrupted sleep is good for the child, too.

aglenn · October 2012

chardonnay24:

We sleep trained because he wasn't sleeping. At all. No amount of rocking, cuddling, or soothing could get him to sleep. He was tired, cranky, and getting sick a lot. Since he hadn't needed to eat during the night since 3 months, that wasn't the issue and we tried EVERYTHING before we sleep trained. I think some people forget that uninterrupted sleep is good for the child, too.

Like the OP said, I am sure there are times when sleep training makes sense and is in the best interests of everyone involved. I just don't like that it is viewed as a mandatory step for everyone when that is not really the case.

chardonnay24 · October 2012

aglenn:
chardonnay24:

We sleep trained because he wasn't sleeping. At all. No amount of rocking, cuddling, or soothing could get him to sleep. He was tired, cranky, and getting sick a lot. Since he hadn't needed to eat during the night since 3 months, that wasn't the issue and we tried EVERYTHING before we sleep trained. I think some people forget that uninterrupted sleep is good for the child, too.

Like the OP said, I am sure there are times when sleep training makes sense and is in the best interests of everyone involved. I just don't like that it is viewed as a mandatory step for everyone when that is not really the case.

I don't think most parents sleep train because they want to STTN. Like I said, sleep training is good for the child, too. I think most APers forget that AP is really about "meeting the child's needs". When I said that we were sleep training because he was "such and such age and needed to STTN", it's not because STTN was a milestone for that age that he needed to meet, it's because he was old enough to sleep train and needed to STTN. I don't actually know any parents who sleep trained because it was the right age.

Angela814 · October 2012

Is there a certain age a child *needs* to STTN? Obviously waking all night long isn't good for development. But is waking once hurting anything? DD1 didn't STTN until she turned 5. She's completely on track physically and developmentally. Waking once a night to climb in bed with us didn't hurt her. When she was ready, she started staying in her bed all night. DD2 wakes up once, comes into bed with us, and goes right back to sleep. She's not being hurt by not STTN.

chardonnay24 · October 2012

Angela814:
Is there a certain age a child *needs* to STTN? Obviously waking all night long isn't good for development. But is waking once hurting anything? DD1 didn't STTN until she turned 5. She's completely on track physically and developmentally. Waking once a night to climb in bed with us didn't hurt her. When she was ready, she started staying in her bed all night. DD2 wakes up once, comes into bed with us, and goes right back to sleep. She's not being hurt by not STTN.

I don't know anyone, ever, who sleep trained because their kid was waking once and going right back to sleep. I think most people end up resorting to sleep training because their kid is waking all.night.long for no reason.

Angela814 · October 2012

alliecat1234:
I just hate the whole line that you are doing a disservice to your child by not teaching them to be able to fall asleep on their own. That is what makes me think twice about my approach (co-sleeping after first wake up at night) because sometimes I do question whether I am taking the "easy way out" by just bringing him into bed with me. But then I think again that he is only 4 months old -- why is it important for him to know how to get himself back to sleep in the middle of the night right now? I am 33 and wake up sometimes in the middle of the night and can't get myself back to sleep, so how can I expect for him to learn that at this age?

Yes

pepomntpat · October 2012

chardonnay24:
Angela814:
Is there a certain age a child *needs* to STTN? Obviously waking all night long isn't good for development. But is waking once hurting anything? DD1 didn't STTN until she turned 5. She's completely on track physically and developmentally. Waking once a night to climb in bed with us didn't hurt her. When she was ready, she started staying in her bed all night. DD2 wakes up once, comes into bed with us, and goes right back to sleep. She's not being hurt by not STTN.
I don't know anyone, ever, who sleep trained because their kid was waking once and going right back to sleep. I think most people end up resorting to sleep training because their kid is waking all.night.long for no reason.

I am sure there are some, but I agree that isn't the case with most families. And I do agree with the OP that sleep training is something that is expected at a certain age just like weaning and starting solids and potty training.

I also think that sometimes babies cry because they are tired and need to go to sleep. So for the poster who was questioning the association between crying and sleep, here is how it worked for us. DD wanted to nurse ALL NIGHT LONG. I could not live with that. She cried because I upset her routine. It isn't so much that she had to cry in order to sleep, but that she cried because she didn't like the way I was doing it. I didn't care if she slept through the night. She still doesn't STTN. 2 or 3 wakings were fine by me, but 12 or more were not.

I think there are huge misconceptions on both sides of this issue. If you let your baby cry, you hate your baby and aren't meeting his needs! If you don't let your baby cry he'll never ever sleep. Neither statement is true and I'm pretty sure everyone falls somewhere in between. I needed to sleep. DD needed to sleep. We had to let her cry to do that. It was painful but brief, but now she adores her bed, her pillow, her lovies and we are all happy and rested.

That's what I hate about this argument. No one ever gives anyone the benefit of the doubt.

aglenn · October 2012

I think we are all basically in what my old boss would call "violent agreement" on this issue.

Bottom line, sleep train or don't sleep train; it is highly unlikely that anyone here is doing anything in this regard that will cause any damage to their kid. Both sides of the argument are way overblown and no solution is right for every family all the time. You know your kid better than any authors, pediatricians, or random posters on internet message boards do. Do what feels right to you.

ncbelle · October 2012

I agree! My problem isn't that people choose to CIO but that they feel pressured to CIO. It's normal for babies to wake and certainly they don't need to be "trained" to sleep (and in any case there's lots one can do that promotes good sleep that doesn't involve leaving baby to cry alone). It's also a bogus argument that "waking is bad for babies" - ok, if you kid is waking up and staying up for hours at a time and therefore not getting enough sleep overall. But most babies wake to eat and go back to sleep or wake and need a bit of rocking and go back to sleep - adults wake in their sleep all the time!

In the end the issue is definitely with a society that seems to think babies should come out independent sleeping little creatures. Every family should make the choice that's best for them, should keep in mind what "normal" infant sleep is really like, and should never feel pressure to do something that goes against their gut instincts.

RedRose87 · October 2012

My family seems to think I am doing something wrong as well by "spoiling him". They define this spoiling as allowing him to sleep the entire night with me and I respond to his cries immediately. I do not plan on letting DS cry it out at any age. I do not see how I can go from nurturing him and being so attentive to his needs to letting him cry alone in his crib. I've never cried myself to sleep and woken up feeling happy and refreshed, so how can I expect my baby to do so?

When we do decide to "sleep train" it will definitely be a no-cry method. Right now DS wakes up about 6 to 8 times a night, so I am exhausted, and I'd like to get to where we only wake once or twice. I don't expect him to STTN any time soon, and I really don't care if he does, I'd just like at least one stretch that is longer than 1.5 hours.

sadsadie · October 2012

I would think you would want to encourage your kid to STTN so that you can sleep and be the best, most well-rested parent you can be. But how you go about doing that (or not) is your business.

TiffanyBerry · October 2012

theresat858:

This.
My husband keeps asking me 'when can we let her cry it out?'. My response so far has been not until 6 months... and now I am adding 'but only if there is good reason to'. Right now there is not a good reason to - DD wakes up once or twice a night and goes right back to sleep after I feed her. She sleeps a 7-8 hour stretch consistently, then 3-4 more hours. I do not see these sleep patterns as a problem. We might need to sleep train at some point for naps, but for night sleep, if things do not change, I will not sleep train.

She already is sleeping through the night. She sleeps far longer in a stretch than my 2.5yr old daughter, who still generally doesn't go more than 3 or 4 hours without waking up.

Angela814 · October 2012

TiffanyBerry:
theresat858:

This.
My husband keeps asking me 'when can we let her cry it out?'. My response so far has been not until 6 months... and now I am adding 'but only if there is good reason to'. Right now there is not a good reason to - DD wakes up once or twice a night and goes right back to sleep after I feed her. She sleeps a 7-8 hour stretch consistently, then 3-4 more hours. I do not see these sleep patterns as a problem. We might need to sleep train at some point for naps, but for night sleep, if things do not change, I will not sleep train.
She already is sleeping through the night. She sleeps far longer in a stretch than my 2.5yr old daughter, who still generally doesn't go more than 3 or 4 hours without waking up.

Mine too. I swear I got kicked all night long last night. I really posted this vent more about toddler sleep issues anyway. I don't understand why it matters that my 2 yo needs me to fall asleep or that she wakes up at night. It's all still normal, and I hate the implication that I'm going to damage her by not sleep training.

PrincessPeach13 · October 2012

I also think a lot of people forget that, technically, sleeping a 5-hour straight is considered STTN.

chottomotto · October 2012

alliecat1234:
I am 33 and wake up sometimes in the middle of the night and can't get myself back to sleep, so how can I expect for him to learn that at this age?

So true. My daughter sleeps better and longer than I do, and I attempted CIO once. Longest 3 minutes of my life, I really couldn't go through with it. I sleep when I'm tired and so does she. That's something my family can live with.

JessieJH · October 2012

Sleep training was a miracle for us. I don't really care if my daughter STTN (she definitely does not), but for awhile she was waking hourly to nurse (we co-sleep). I was a mess, she was a cranky kiddo- none of us were happy. So, we finally did modified version of Ferber (not really leaving her alone much at all, but stroking her while she was in the crib until she was soothed.) It actually wasn't so bad and the crying wasn't very long. I think she was just ready to do it. Now she starts the night off in her crib and it's fantastic to see her sleep for hours in a row in her crib. Later in the night, when she wakes up she comes into bed with us, but the nursing isn't nearly so constant anymore and we are all a lot happier. We also noticed a significant improvement in her daytime naps both at home and daycare.

I think this is just one of those issues where you have to do what is best for you and your baby- sleep training may be great for some and terrible for others.

Jenny952 · October 2012

I tried sleep training my DD but I failed miserably b/c I couldn't stand hearing her cry... and not just cry, it was all out screaming. Then I realized that DD was sleeping better and longer when I rocked her to sleep instead of letting her cry in her crib... so that's what I do.

If you feel like you need some help, I'd recommend you try the No Cry Sleep Solution. I've been reading it and I like a lot of what she talks about. I would consider the author to be AP - she co-sleeps, bf, and bw, and what I really liked was the routine for putting baby down.

jvu0215 · October 2012

I am attachment parenting/co-sleeping all the way but what I'd like to hear from y'all is how you got through it? How did you get baby to wean and/or sleep without you and/or your breast? I'm afraid to go back to work or leave DS with a babysitter because he won't sleep without me!

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