so much for a safe place to post... or is it?

Gabgaps · October 2012

Well, I posted a link to an article today. That Newsweek article. I guess there had been some drama about it earlier. I didn't know that. I just know I'm falling apart for the 6 month anniversary of my son's death and that article made me feel good for five minutes. I'm an atheist by the way. I don't believe in heaven. It just felt good, thinking of the possibility of something else. To think my son is happy somewhere. Hearing the story of someone who was on their way to dying and felt nothing but peace and love.That is why I posted it, thinking if it helped someone like me to smile for 5 minutes it was worth it. I read a lot but I have just posted once or maybe twice before that. Then I was told to erase it because I upset people. WELL, NOW I'M UPSET. I haven't talked to anyone other than my husband, sister, parents and in-laws for six months. I moved to this country two years ago so my friends are not here. The only times I have talked about my son's death have been here, this last post being one of them. And what do I get back? Oh, please shut up, you are upsetting people.

I'm sorry if everyone or anyone was upset. I know how you all feel. I am going through the same.

I WON'T BE POSTING ON THIS SITE ANYMORE.

Well I am editing the post a little because things are nor the same. I won't delete it so anyone can see what happened and then what happened after that. It will be a good thing for anyone who wants to check the outcome of this soap opera.

THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR CLEARING THE WATER AND MAKING ME FEEL BETTER. TODAY WAS A BAD DAY BUT NOW I FEEL BETTER. THANK YOU FOR THE KIND COMMENTS AND FOR ASKING ME TO STAY. I HOPE AT THE END EVERYONE FELT A LITTLE BETTER. I GAVE A BIGGER ANSWER AT THE END OF THE TREAD.

jbranden12 · October 2012

Gabgaps, I sent this to you in a pm, but you may not have seen it:

I'm sorry you had a rough time with Liam's anniversary, we just passed 6 months as well and it was really difficult. Regarding the article and what LoveofMikesLife said, someone posted it yesterday who was not a late loss mama and she made comments along the lines that our babies are in a much better place and said some other things that were hurtful to many of our mamas. It was another example of someone who probably meant well but who didn't understand how hurtful it can be to tell a mother who has just lost her child that the best place for her baby was not with her, even if the intention is to give comfort for where the baby is now. Additionally, though we all know this is a public message board, it made some of the mamas feel strange to have people watching us, reading our stories, and jumping in to give unsolicited advice.

I'll say that I agree with you, I want to believe that my daughter is happy somewhere. But even now, 6 months later, I don't have the ability to wrestle with working through my beliefs right now. I did begin reading Heaven is for Real, and I actually had to put it down. It made me angry that God might save some people and not my daughter. Again, I'm just not ready.

But I'm glad that you found some peace by reading this article. We all have to take it when/where we can!

ETA: Ultimately, It was the poster's comments that caused the drama, not as much the article. I hope you don't stop posting because the ladies here are amazing and really do want to give and get support!

ILoveRedVino · October 2012

I didn't see the other person's post yesterday, but I did read the link that you posted.

I liked the article. I almost even posted it to my FB page.

I've battled a lot with my religious beliefs and knowing where my son is, and that article did make me feel a bit more at peace.

pb127 · October 2012

I think this might all be a bit of a misunderstanding. I think the article that was posted was not too upsetting (we all have our beliefs/views and we are respectful of that) but rather, it was the OTHER poster (not you!) implying that our children were better off elsewhere than with us. So it was more her commentary that hurt.

also, she is not a late loss mom and it was upsetting to be reminded that people lurk here without good reason (not including loss parent, friend of recent loss parent, etc) like we are some sort of sad zoo. That was also upsetting.

i am really sorry about the misunderstanding, and I hope you don't go. We all need support and you are already dealing with such a tough milestone right now. Big (((hugs)))

Mrs Nice · October 2012

I am so so so sorry this happened! As the PPs mentioned, it was the original posters comments that was upsetting not the article itself! I am glad that you found some peace reading it. We all deserve to share what makes us happy without judgement from others.

I really hope that you will continue to post here. We need to support each other during these difficult days.

Big huge hugs to you!

LoveOfMikesLife · October 2012

I'm so sorry if you took my post as you hurt people. What I said was that someone else posted the same thing and it caused pain. I also had no intention of hurting your feelings. I'm sorry if I did that.

This is a very tight knit group please stay and participate more and you will see that we just try to protect one another. The first poster of this article made some "added" comments that is what upset people and I misunderstood. I never meant to run you off and I truly apologize for that. Don't let my misunderstanding take away from a great community of ladies that are all in different stages of grief that can possibly help you on this horrible path.

I really am sorry about my misunderstanding and for hurting your feelings. PLEASE stay.

BronwynJaede · October 2012

I am struggling so much with the six month anniversary too. I am also an atheist. I am also far, far away from my family and friends in Australia.

I'm sorry you are hurting and that this has upset you too. Please stick around, and please let me know if you would like to talk.

Hugs and very best wishes to you.

ally2011 · October 2012

I am incredibly sorry this happened to you! There was a non-loss mom poster this morning/yesterday who posted the article, which was not the issue....she also had an awful lot of commentary for someone who had a living son and no late losses. That is what upset people. It caused a panic attack in at least one poster and various reactions in others.

Please know that any knee-jerk reactions you received were a result of left over hurt feelings and people being upset from that....the posts (or at least them getting attention) happened literally within hours of each other.

I beg you to not leave this board. Grief is a long, long process and you will continue to need support. Please see this for what it was, a terrible, terrible misunderstanding. The timing was just awful and if you had posted any other day there would have been no reaction at all.

We have a late loss Facebook group, I would love for you to join. Please email me at jenn (dot) craver (at) yahoo (dot) com and I will get you added. It is a wonderful resource and I would really love for you to have access to at least see if it is helpful to you.

Please don't let this situation ruin your experience with our board. We are all very supportive of each other, and want to be supportive of you too. Today was just a terrible misunderstanding and I am so very sorry that so many feelings were hurt.

I am so very sorry for the loss of your sweet baby.

Hugs,

Jenn

Carolee · October 2012

Gabgaps, I am just now catching up on everything and piecing things together - I'm sorry you were hurt. Yesterday, a random person who hadn't experienced a loss posted the article, and it offended a lot of people. I don't think you posting offended anyone - there is a big difference between a loss mama coming on and posting something that was helpful and someone who hasn't experienced such a loss coming on and posting it as a way to "help" us "poor women." I hope you will reconsider your decision to leave - this really is a great board.

ally2011 · October 2012

LoveOfMikesLife:
I'm so sorry if you took my post as you hurt people. What I said was that someone else posted the same thing and it caused pain. I also had no intention of hurting your feelings. I'm sorry if I did that.

This is a very tight knit group please stay and participate more and you will see that we just try to protect one another. The first poster of this article made some "added" comments that is what upset people and I misunderstood. I never meant to run you off and I truly apologize for that. Don't let my misunderstanding take away from a great community of ladies that are all in different stages of grief that can possibly help you on this horrible path.
I really am sorry about my misunderstanding and for hurting your feelings. PLEASE stay.

And I will vouch for the fact that LoveofMikesLife is a caring, sweet person with a big heart. She was very upset by the other post and was just being quick to try to protect others from what happened earlier. Please accept her apology, I know without a doubt in my mind that it is sincere and genuine, and please stay here with us, and/or come on the Facebook group.

Hugs,

Jenn

LoveOfMikesLife · October 2012

Great so now I'm going to make Jenn look bad too

I've had time to think and find a way to articulate what I want/ need to say.

I am truly sorry that I hurt your feelings.

While I know it wasn't your intentions, that article causes me pain. It's not just you hurting from this. I know that I didn't have to read that article when you posted it, and I didn't. However I already know what it says and to see it being mentioned causes the pain for me.

I don't believe that my daughters death was happy and positive. Or a peaceful, go toward the white light situation. I think my daughters death was horrifying and painful. My daughter basically suffocated in side of me. Do you know what it's like to not be able to breath? I do, I have sever food allergies. It's terrifying. My body failed me and killed my baby. And I have to re-live that ever time I see that article.

Every one here has had a bad year, 6months whatever! Your situation is not worse or better than anyone else's here. We ALL lost our baby's. and it sucks! Emotions can run high on a loss board and understandably so. We all have different triggers, some you wouldn't guess. My point is that you are not the only one that was hurt by your post.

I am immensely sorry for hurting your feelings. I was hurt too and I think it's obvious that neither of us meant to hurt the other. Please stay and get to know us, we can and will be your friends that you can talk to about your baby when ever you want.

Im sorry for your losses

pottermommy · October 2012

Hi, I am the panic attack from yesterday Huh?

I don't want you to leave. Not at all. I don't agree with that article not at all. But that doesn't mean you can't.

I think what to take from this is that we are ALL grieving and differently. What is great for you is terrible for someone else and what is peaceful for someone else is highly painful for you. We are all going to have bad days and bad things, and yes sometimes we are going to get hurt because even though we all know what it is like. No one else here is me, and no one else her is you.

I understand that you are hurting, but I don't know how, and I don't understand how you are coping because we are different and we are in different places.

That being said, we can't leave or try and cope alone just because we have different oppinions. We have to bind together and hold each other up or we will ALL fall down.

Gabgaps · October 2012

WOW I'M NOT SURE WHAT HAPPENED THERE I WILL POST IT AGAIN. LOOK DOWN

LuckEinLuv · October 2012

I am glad you came back. That is all. I hope tomorrow is a better day, but if it isn't, we are all here for you.

Gabgaps · October 2012

I?ve had one of the worst days since everything happened. I am so close to the edge it scares me. I am so worn out I have a hard time typing right now. I want to say I hate drama, especially when it?s unnecessary. I guess this was all a misunderstanding and I see now no one had bad intentions. Well, I ALWAYS knew there were no bad intentions but I felt judged when I posted something from my heart and that?s what made me snap. I know the feeling of seeing something that hurts you, it happens to me like 10 times a day when I see a baby, or something on TV, or anything that reminds me of Liam (which is pretty much everything). I have not talked to anyone in 6 months to avoid questions and hurtful (not on purpose) comments. I get it. But there was also a person (ILoveRedVino) who said it gave her peace. So to me, it was worth it. This is what a support group is all about. Sharing our thoughts, vents and tools to help each other. I never thought for a second my pain is greater than anyone?s or that my year was worse or I am the only one suffering. I just felt like the only one being judged, that is different. That said, no harm done or hard feelings.

LoveOfMikesLife, I?m sorry for the chain of ?you hurt me I hurt you we all hurt everyone? Let?s put that behind us. I?m sorry for posting an article that hurt your feelings. I understand reading was painful. We can all choose to see it how we want to see it and this article helped me choose a view that worked for me. I know too how it feels to suffocate, I almost drowned once (like really) and I too have allergies that will make my throat close. Just take into consideration that is the feeling you get when you can?t get air. Our babies were not breathing air, they were getting oxygen through blood and that blood flow stopped . That happens to grown ups too. When that happens to a person that breathes (losing oxygen because the blood is not flowing right) they pass out, not suffocate. If you were sleeping while this happened, you would just not wake up. You would die peacefully in your sleep. Remember that game that teenagers used to play (and I guess still do), where one does squats or something to get their heart rate going and then someone presses the side of their throat? Well they think it?s cool because you pass out and they think it?s funny. I even did it once when I was 15 and then a teacher explained to us that we were passing out because we were stopping the blow flow, thus oxygen and that was why we passed out but it was very dangerous because the vein could stay closed after pressing it and there could be bad complications or even the risk of death. My point with this game story is that I played it and experienced passing out because of it. It was painless, we were laughing (not that this is funny at all. I?m just illustrating the fact that we didn?t feel anything bad) and yes, we were incredibly stupid. I know that now. I hope this brings you a little peace. About the body issue, I?m struggling with the same thing myself so I just hope it gets better for both of us, and everyone else in here.

BronwynJaede: Love that we have so much in common. I would love to talk! I will PM my info and we can get in touch.

And to clarify (not that it even maters) , I don't even believe what that article says. I just flirted with the thought of death being full of peace and love and it made me smile.

Thank you everyone for your comments they were a good end for a very crappy day. Sorry for the drama.

I don't even know if I made sense while I wrote this, I'm very tired and I'm usually more eloquent in my own language.

pottermommy · October 2012

I just wanted to say, before I exit...I think that it is wrong to compare a fellow LOSS mama's baby's death to a highschool game. I doubt that made anyone feel any better and infact I know that it made them feel like crap.

No one meant to hurt you I can promise that, it wasn't intentional, but that whole part of your response just basically told LOML that her fears and devestations was stupid b/c it isn't scientifically possible. I for one have never suffocated until I died (my duaghter did though, she DID drown) and I have never cut off the blood to my body until I died..never spoken to anyone that did so I am not going to demean her fears on something that I don't know b/c no one living can know if it hurts to die, no matter how it happens.

Now I don't want her to focus on that at all, I love LOML, adore her, am friends with her away from here and I know that all of this has pretty much been a huge clusterfuk of a tailspin as it has been for me, so I hope that the board moves past it and I hope we all can learn from this and take from it that we all need support but we still don't know everything the other women are feeling.

I am glad you are staying and that you understand it was all a misunderstanding, or rather a difference of opinion.

Again I am sorry you were hurt and I am glad the article helped you and others I hope you all continue to find words of support from here and other places but telling LOML that her baby couldn't have suffocated was not supportive. Not at all.

Gabgaps · October 2012

OK, IT TOOK ME FIVE MINUTES TO HURT EVERYONE AGAIN.

OMG, I really can't get anyhing right here.

TO CLARIFY: I posted about that game to illustrate the fact that you don't suffocate when you can't get oxygen because of an obstruction in the blood flow. like it is the case of a lot of stillbirths and IT WAS THE CASE OF MY SON. A lot of mamas here struggle with that fact. I was one of them until I did some reserch. I only mention the game BECAUSE I PLAYED IT so I know for a fact how does it feel to not get the oxygen you need from blood I was sharing a personal experience. I am talking about a specific situation. I was trying to help but I guess we have established by now I suck at it. I compared two events to illustrate the way the body woks. It's not about a high school game, it is about me having been there.

PLEASE DON'T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH I DIDN'T SAY. I NEVER CALLED ANYONE STUPID. I DIDN'T CALL ANYONE'S FEELINGS STUPID AND I NEVER SAID WHAT SHE THINKS IS STUPID.

My mistake here was thinking (because she said it happened inside her) that it had been the most common cause of which is an event stopping the blood flow. I don't know what happened and I guess I should not talk. I'm sorry.

The only thing I can do here is share my story. Say my views on this terrible and confusing thing. Try to explain what we are all trying to figure out.

LOML: I am sorry if I offended you. (or anyone else). I thought your situation had been like mine and I was saying something that helped me through it. I shouldn't have just assumed.

(To everyone): I'm sorry I assumed something that was wrong. But I'm not sorry I shared something that helped me. Please instead of reading "OMG she thinks this is like a high school game" read what it says. It is just an example, the only example I have to compare that particular medical issue. To anyone who thinks I'm talking too much about high school games, think first that this is how my son died and it happened in front of my eyes. I have never shared my whole story but I was in front row when my son started to die. I didn't even know what was going on until my doctor got hysterical. I had a very traumatic c-section and it was too late. He died two days later in my arms. Don't treat me like the insensitive selfish girl who doesn't get any of this. I might not always sugar coat what I say but I never say things to hurt people.

ONCE AGAIN: LOML, I'm sorry I assumed we were in the same situation. That whole concept fits my personal issue and I thought you were in the same situation. My bad.

weddedwife · October 2012

Hi,

Missed the drama today but I saw yesterday's post from a lurker and it definitely was her comments, plus the fact that she was here lurking, that set people off. You are welcome here. This is a supportive group of women and we have ALL been through a lot.

ruthymusney · October 2012

Nobody said anything you said was stupid, nor did they say that you said something was stupid.

It's normal to have terrible days, everything you are feeling is normal.

The truth is, some of us were given answers about what happened and some of us have no idea, and for the majority, none of us know what our children felt when they left this world.

If you feel like everything was painless, then we would love to hear about it and we are here to support you, but people like me, my daughter also died of a chord accident don't fully believe that it was just that easy and that painless. I was never told that, because my doctors don't know of she was in pain or not.

It's hard to be a part of a group if you are constantly defending yourself. If you say something, and someone doesn't agree, it is okay, we can all still get along, we just have to apologize and move on.

These ladies did an awesome job at welcoming you with open arms and hearts, there were many apologies and people letting you know that they are here for you.

It's okay to start over, no one dislikes you, or thinks you are rude or upsetting, etc. We all just need to put on our big girl panties and realize that we are all here for the same reason, and it sucks.

Gabgaps · October 2012

Thank you Ruthymusney. I was told I called her feelings stupid in the comment on top of my second answer where I apologize again. But I am grateful for all the comments. I know not everyone believes the same. I was telling what I believe and I gave the reason why I believe it. I'm not expecting anyone to like it or believe it, just giving one more choice to the million we have to choose. Mine is a thought it brings me peace and I shared it in the hope someone out there might feel better.

Once again, Thank you everyone for your words.

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