- Pregnancy
- Baby & Toddler
- Parents
- Getting Pregnant
- Baby Names
- Product Reviews
-
Registry
- Community
-
More
Want a personalized experience?
Download the free app
Special Needs
Social Communication Disorder ???
DS 3 years 4 months is being evaluated both privately and via our state Ed dept. Our private evaluater conducted a psychoeducational eval and was supposed to provide a report and feedback appt next week. She just called to suggest that DS be administered the ADOS prior to our feedback. She said she was specifically looking to evaluate his social communication and speech and said she was interested determining whether Social Communication Disorder was at play here.
I looked into this topic and find it a little confusing. It appears to be a sub category under ASD but I have also read that for a child to receive this dx, autism must be ruled out. I am confused and had never before heard of SCD.
Our state provided school psychologist believes DS is not autistic. She conducted an IQ test and scored his verbal IQ at 120. A behavioral pediatrician has also stated that DS does not fit into ASD.
I am trying to understand a little more about what SCD looks like, and if pragmatic language could be an issue for a child who is very verbal and has mature speech capabilities. I am also trying to decide if I want to have the ADOS done and what I might expect the results to show.
The reasons for our concerns about DS have always been behavioral. He have severe meltdowns, can't deal with frustrations, transitions poorly, is a rigid thinker and responds to limits and discomfort with SCREAMS. He shows some soft neuro signs, low tone, and sensory issues.
I looked into this topic and find it a little confusing. It appears to be a sub category under ASD but I have also read that for a child to receive this dx, autism must be ruled out. I am confused and had never before heard of SCD.
Our state provided school psychologist believes DS is not autistic. She conducted an IQ test and scored his verbal IQ at 120. A behavioral pediatrician has also stated that DS does not fit into ASD.
I am trying to understand a little more about what SCD looks like, and if pragmatic language could be an issue for a child who is very verbal and has mature speech capabilities. I am also trying to decide if I want to have the ADOS done and what I might expect the results to show.
The reasons for our concerns about DS have always been behavioral. He have severe meltdowns, can't deal with frustrations, transitions poorly, is a rigid thinker and responds to limits and discomfort with SCREAMS. He shows some soft neuro signs, low tone, and sensory issues.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Social Communication Disorder ???
Social communication disorder is a brand new category in the DSM 5 - I'm not suprised you are confused trying to look up info - its very confusing. Its for kids who have delays in pragmatic or social communication, but don't fit any of the other PDD's or an ASD diagnosis.
https://www.dsm5.org/proposedrevision/pages/proposedrevision.aspx?rid=489#
Yes, pragmatic language could be an issue even for a kiddo who has a wide vocabulary, good articulation etc.
The ADOS will give the practioner a score that she'll be fit onto a scale and will tell you which category (if any) your child falls in. Personally, I don't see any reason not to do the ADOS - if anything it gives you a bigger more complete picture of your kiddo and another data point for reference now and in the future.
Based on your last paragraph though I'm kind of suprised the school psych isn't seeing red flags - minus the screaming and tantrums you describe my DS, who is diagnosed as PDD-NOS. Is his behavior at school very different from what you see at home? that wouldn't be uncommon, and could explain why the school psych is unconcerned while the private evaluator is.
I didn't understand exactly what the ADOS was meant to show. Based on your and aunties reply, I realize that we will likely learn quite a bit.
The school psych spent three hours with my son on a great day. He is like a light switch. Despite everything that I described, he behaved very typically during the eval and intake. His time with the private psych was just the opposite. He was tough from the beginning, so she only saw the defiance and rigid thinking and none of his cute and sweet behavior. She also conducted the parent portion on a separate visit, so she spent far less time with or near him. She observed me with DS for 10-15 minutes behind a two way mirror, then sat with him for the remaining 45 minutes.
Given the behaviors you report in your last paragraph, why is she just now doing ADOS? Frankly, it's the first place I would expected her to look. I suggest the Vineland as well, if not now, once DS is school aged.
We had our first private eval last week. She said she was reviewing my son's data with a colleague in order to prepare her report. That conversation led to recommending the ADOS. The school eval was done yesterday and I know she did, in fact, use the Vineland. I believe this was completed during my portion of the interview. Does that sound right? I wont know for two weeks when we expect our report and feedback appt .
Well for one thing, SCD isn't one of the classifications under which a child can be classified for special education services under IDEA. This could make getting meaningful support and services harder to impossible. It would also relieve the district of the burden of a manifest determination should the child have behavioral issues in school.
I may have been late to accept it, but I know my son will need special education services to be able to thrive in school. Would a conversation about how a SCD dx would negatively affect DS schooling be considered by an evaluator? Would you mind explaining what you mean in the bolded section? Behavior is my son's biggest issue.
Now, about that IQ. Sounds like you're reporting his VIQ which is actually a subset score. How low is his performance IQ? And where did they place him on the full scale IQ? Most kids who would get an AS dx have a higher, sometimes considerably higher, VIQ which is the opposite of what one would see in a kid with classic autism. The difference can be as high as a standard deviation or more which means you can't really expect him to be able to access that 120 effectively without major interventions.
His PIQ was 80. I believe that number is not indicative of DSs actual abilities. The school psychologist who performed this agrees. He was able to do the verbal portion while bouncing off the furniture and walls. Constructing puzzles and using blocks wasn't so easy to do when bouncing around. She stated that his score was affected by his being easily distracted and unfocused. FS IQ is 100.
JMHO, I don't think you can R/O Aspergers (AS) at 4. I know too many people who get screened early only to get the dx at 7, 12 or even as adults. On what basis did he say this? Did he run an ADOS already? M-CHAT doesn't count.
This guy was an idiot. That appointment was the reason I began setting up new evals via private university and state committee.That info aside, he did MCHAT and something else. He told me DS has "low frustration tolerance." Ya think!?
Pragmatic speech can be a huge issue for kids with Aspergers/PDD-Nos who make up the bulk of the folks who are assumed to getting re-named SCD. Typical glitches include being overly literal- as in struggling to make sense of irony, sarcasm, hyperbole whether in spoken or written form. They can't do the non-verbal piece either which impacts facial expression, body language, prosody, tone. Often these types of kids have what is described as a flat affect in speech and facial expression. Moms are usually the last to pick up this clue; I think it's the rose-tinted mommygoggles that come with our kids.
That really doesn't sound like my kid at all. I wonder if it's my mommygoggles though.
This is the very definition of a child with an ASD.
I didn't know this.
I can't imagine why you would pass on the ADOS, the more you know about your child the more effective a parent you can be. And the greater your shot at getting him the specific help he needs to be his best self. If his speech is good, I would also insist on GADS. Unfortunately, there is no good pragmatics scales normed for your son's age group. TOPL-2 is usable at age 6 if he's still struggling with pragmatics and social language. I really like the Vineland and BASC for getting to the social and emotional pieces, too.
I didn't understand what the ADOS was meant to show. I plan to take the doctors recommendation and have it done. Just to be clear, you would ask that both the ADOS and GADS be done?
ETA:
The school psychologist is requesting that PT and OT evaluations be done as well. Because of recent changes to the policies regarding the evaluation process is NYC, she cannot request a third supplementary eval until these other two are approved and completed. DO you think I should push for a speech eval? Also, she suggested we seek out a pediatric neurologist. Any thoughts on that?
She didn't push him and I do believe that my son perceived the experience exactly as you describe.
This is me : /
Although, at his best and much of the time, he is kind, gentle, and well behaved and mannered.I am struggling a LOT to reconcile these two different and opposing sides of my boy.