I just want to say thank you to everyone for their advice. It actually helped with the talk that my husband and I had last night. We are now both firmly behind our original promise not to baptize, and my husband called his mother to confirm this with me giving very stern looks when I could hear her crying... she's a crier.nbsp;Hubby and I did discuss if his views had changed, and his reasoning behind agreeing with his mother was that in the long run it would have been easier to just have the baby baptized than to listen to his mother's nagging for the duration of baby's childhood. I had him read the forum here to see just how people view meddling MIL's and family and he could see from peoples responses that it never really just stops when you give in once. I know I can see this in his mother and mine for that matter, but I think it kind of gave him the slap in the face that he needed to let him know that we, together, make the decisions, and not his mother. I also mentioned how he was married to me, and not his mother, and going behind my back and giving his mother power over something that he knows I feel so strongly about is not how we "compromise", and how if I cried to get what I wanted he would ignore it. Needless to say I hope his mom gets the point now.I really do want to thank everyone for opinions. I do not believe that baptizing just to silence my MIL would have been appropriate at all, and really undermines the values of the church that so many people, including those on here, respect.
Thanks for the update. I'm really happy to hear you had a happy ending!
I just want to say thank you to everyone for their advice. It actually helped with the talk that my husband and I had last night. We are now both firmly behind our original promise not to baptize, and my husband called his mother to confirm this (with me giving very stern looks when I could hear her crying... she's a crier).
Hubby and I did discuss if his views had changed, and his reasoning behind agreeing with his mother was that in the long run it would have been easier to just have the baby baptized than to listen to his mother's nagging for the duration of baby's childhood. I had him read the forum here to see just how people view meddling MIL's (and family) and he could see from peoples responses that it never really just stops when you give in once. I know I can see this in his mother (and mine for that matter), but I think it kind of gave him the slap in the face that he needed to let him know that we, together, make the decisions, and not his mother. I also mentioned how he was married to me, and not his mother, and going behind my back and giving his mother power over something that he knows I feel so strongly about is not how we "compromise", and how if I cried to get what I wanted he would ignore it. Needless to say I hope his mom gets the point now.
I really do want to thank everyone for opinions. I do not believe that baptizing just to silence my MIL would have been appropriate at all, and really undermines the values of the church that so many people, including those on here, respect.
Thank you for the update! Congrats on making a unified decision!
I just want to say thank you to everyone for their advice. It actually helped with the talk that my husband and I had last night. We are now both firmly behind our original promise not to baptize, and my husband called his mother to confirm this (with me giving very stern looks when I could hear her crying... she's a crier).
Hubby and I did discuss if his views had changed, and his reasoning behind agreeing with his mother was that in the long run it would have been easier to just have the baby baptized than to listen to his mother's nagging for the duration of baby's childhood. I had him read the forum here to see just how people view meddling MIL's (and family) and he could see from peoples responses that it never really just stops when you give in once. I know I can see this in his mother (and mine for that matter), but I think it kind of gave him the slap in the face that he needed to let him know that we, together, make the decisions, and not his mother. I also mentioned how he was married to me, and not his mother, and going behind my back and giving his mother power over something that he knows I feel so strongly about is not how we "compromise", and how if I cried to get what I wanted he would ignore it. Needless to say I hope his mom gets the point now.
I really do want to thank everyone for opinions. I do not believe that baptizing just to silence my MIL would have been appropriate at all, and really undermines the values of the church that so many people, including those on here, respect.
Thanks for the update! Good for you and your DH to talk through it and come to an agreement. And good on your DH for being the one to tell his mother and not putting you in that position.
But what if in his conversation with his mom, he came to realize that baptism is important TO HIM? Because if it is, your "not budging on this" is not fair. Good luck...it's a hard situation.
"Hello, babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. At the outside, babies, you've got about a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies. God damn it, you've got to be kind."
- Kurt Vonnegut
I am Catholic and we had our LO baptized last year. However, you should know that you can NOT baptize your child in the church without attending a Baptism class, submitting paperwork, authorizing Godparents, then the Godparents have to submit their OWN paperwork, yada yada. It's a bit of a process and yes, it is takes a while to complete because it actually is the start of all religious sacraments that your child will ever experience. If your child would go on to receive their first communion, reconciliation, or even want to get married in a Catholic church one day, their "home church" (aka the church they got baptized in) would have to resubmit their Baptismal forms, etc, to prove that the baby had received their sacraments and when/year/church. And just a side note, there are nuns and priests in my family, so I can promise you that this information is correct!
Obviously, I chose to Baptize my child and believe in what it stands for. However, all parents have the right to make the decisions that they believe are in their child's best interest. If you do not believe in God, I don't see the point in making a formal declaration of intent to raise the child to be a Christian (which is the point of Baptism). Even the point of a Godparent is to technically help be a spiritual leader for the child in the parent's faith, so again, I don't see the point. I am not condemning your beliefs in ANY way, just saying that I don't see the point and agree with what you're saying.
I think you need to sit down with DH and have a serious talk about this. It sounds like he truly has changed his mind since talking to him mom, and perhaps wants to Baptize the baby now on his own accord. If this is the case, then you need to come to a family compromise between the two of you. Maybe you could baptize at another denomination's church, etc.
However, if he has NOT changed his beliefs on the subject and only wants to do it because of his Mom, then you need to b*tch slap that mofo upside the head. Ha! No, not really, but he needs to be put in his place asap. As for mommy dearest, I would not say a word to her about it in person unless she brings it up. She will only blame YOU, not her son. DH needs to be the one to stand up to her because she clearly believes that she can manipulate him (which she actually did). GL!
Sorry for the long quote, but this is where I'm coming from, too. DH and I are both Catholic and baptized our baby last year. But, the parents have to attend prep classes, etc, and it surprises me that your MIL was able to make these arrangements with the church without you or DH's involvement.
Like most everyone else, how you raise your child in regard to religion is the decision of parents, not grandparents. If you let MIL get involved, it will set a precedent for years to come. If I were you, I'd have a LNG talk with DH!
I'm a bit late to reply to this but I'm going through the same thing (only with my mother). The kid is not even born yet and she's threatening secret baptism. My husband and I are both agnostic and we've chosen to raise our child without religion (we want them to make that choice for their self.) We plan to stand together on this. Just want you to know you're not alone in your dilemma.
Married: August 2008 DS born: February 2013 TTC #2: Nov. 14 Chemical pregnancy 09/16/15 BFP: 12/25/15 EDD: 09/04/16
This is not (entirely) about religion. This is about you and your dh raising a baby the way you want to, not the way your mil wants you to. This could be any decision, baptism, circumcision, naming the baby, any major life decision regarding your baby. Your mil has no right to tell you how/what to do. I would talk to your husband about it. YOU are this baby's mother, his mother is not. She was able to make decisions for her own children, it is your duty and right to make decisions for your baby, with your husband. Not with your husband and mil. There are two parents. I understand it takes a village to raise a child, but the village gives advice and help, the village does not make a decision for you. Good luck and hopefully all goes well!
I think I am caught up. It doesn't matter if this was about whether your kid would watch Disney or Nickolodean or about Baptism or Not Baptism... the fact is, your husband changes what you both agreed upom because his mother turned on the water works.
Your husband needs to stand up to mommy and tell her that you both already made a decision. Period. If he truly is giving a second thought about baptism for your joint child, then he needs to come to you with his second thoughts so you can both discuss it.
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This is a challenging situation and I am sorry. I think her heart is in the right place, but she is out of line with this. And honestly, if she is a Christian, she knows that baptism in and of itself does not save (though I realize Catholics have very specific beliefs on the importance of this with regards to babies...I don't share those or feel like they are Biblical, but those that hold then usually do so pretty strongly).
I don't really have any advice other than that you and your husbands are the ones who need to make this choice and the MIL should realize that it has no effect on the eternal destination of her grandbaby.
One thing I will point out from one of your comments is that you seem to imply that science and faith are in conflict....and they are not. In fact, as I study more, I see how complementary they are. I would encourage you to read something by John Lennox, I have been enjoying his rebuttal to Stephen Hawking's last book, but he has other one called "God's Undertaker: Has Science Buried God" that might be of interest to you. Anyway, I just thought this was worth noting as it is a common misconception that the 2 must be mutually exclusive, and that is just not so.
Good luck to you with this sticky situation!
We are so thankful that our second daughter, Lillian Elizabeth "Lily", was born healthy and happy on February 11, 2013. We love her to pieces.
We lost our first daughter, Hannah Grace on May 4, 2011. She was buried on May 14 during a beautiful service at my home church. We are grateful that if she could not be here with us, that she is healed and whole with the Lord. We look forward to the day when we will get to meet her. We love her so much.
One thing I will point out from one of your comments is that you seem to imply that science and faith are in conflict....and they are not. In fact, as I study more, I see how complementary they are. I would encourage you to read something by John Lennox, I have been enjoying his rebuttal to Stephen Hawking's last book, but he has other one called "God's Undertaker: Has Science Buried God" that might be of interest to you. Anyway, I just thought this was worth noting as it is a common misconception that the 2 must be mutually exclusive, and that is just not so.
This is a completely different debate for a completely different venue. There is a very vast array of perspectives people can take on this - but many of us disagree completely on the compatibility of faith and fact..
*Spontaneous* OHSS diagnosed 08.06.2012 Right ovary removed 09.04.2012 via vertical laparotomy Essure implant placed on remaining tube 06.13.2013; successful followup scan 09.30.2013
If you do not believe in God, I don't see the point in making a formal declaration of intent to raise the child to be a Christian (which is the point of Baptism).
While that is often part of the traditional infant baptism ceremonies, it is not the point of baptism. It is the point of a baby dedication. Baptism in the Bible is the first act of obedience for a new believer in Christ.
I am not trying to start an infant/adult baptism debate. There are valid points and good people on both sides
We are so thankful that our second daughter, Lillian Elizabeth "Lily", was born healthy and happy on February 11, 2013. We love her to pieces.
We lost our first daughter, Hannah Grace on May 4, 2011. She was buried on May 14 during a beautiful service at my home church. We are grateful that if she could not be here with us, that she is healed and whole with the Lord. We look forward to the day when we will get to meet her. We love her so much.
One thing I will point out from one of your comments is that you seem to imply that science and faith are in conflict....and they are not. In fact, as I study more, I see how complementary they are. I would encourage you to read something by John Lennox, I have been enjoying his rebuttal to Stephen Hawking's last book, but he has other one called "God's Undertaker: Has Science Buried God" that might be of interest to you. Anyway, I just thought this was worth noting as it is a common misconception that the 2 must be mutually exclusive, and that is just not so.
This is a completely different debate for a completely different venue. There is a very vast array of perspectives people can take on this - but many of us disagree completely on the compatibility of faith and fact..
I am well aware of the views on both sides, but there is a rational, reasonable case to be made for the Christian faith and my point was and remains that you do not have to throw out accepted science (not philosophy masquerading as science) to have faith in Christ.
We are so thankful that our second daughter, Lillian Elizabeth "Lily", was born healthy and happy on February 11, 2013. We love her to pieces.
We lost our first daughter, Hannah Grace on May 4, 2011. She was buried on May 14 during a beautiful service at my home church. We are grateful that if she could not be here with us, that she is healed and whole with the Lord. We look forward to the day when we will get to meet her. We love her so much.
I am well aware of the views on both sides, but there is a rational, reasonable case to be made for the Christian faith and my point was and remains that you do not have to throw out accepted science (not philosophy masquerading as science) to have faith in Christ.
Yes. If you can't let go of mythology, you can still compartmentalize your beliefs and accept science or modify your interpretation of your theology to fit science. That doesn't make mythology compatible with science.
/walkingaway
*Spontaneous* OHSS diagnosed 08.06.2012 Right ovary removed 09.04.2012 via vertical laparotomy Essure implant placed on remaining tube 06.13.2013; successful followup scan 09.30.2013
I am well aware of the views on both sides, but there is a rational, reasonable case to be made for the Christian faith and my point was and remains that you do not have to throw out accepted science (not philosophy masquerading as science) to have faith in Christ.
Yes. If you can't let go of mythology, you can still compartmentalize your beliefs and accept science or modify your interpretation of your theology to fit science. That doesn't make mythology compatible with science.
/walkingaway
Clearly this is not something you can respectfully debate so I think walking away is wise. Using the term "mythology" to describe Christianity demonstrates a limited understanding of the case for support that exists, in my opinion. You can disagree with that which is put forth as the reasonable case for belief, but to put it on the same level as mythology is just intellectually dishonest.
I have debated with plenty of unbelievers and am familiar with the typical arguments. I strongly disagree with them, but I always try to do so respectfully - I am not sure why this seems to have struck a cord with you like it has, and if offended you, I apologize. Regardless of our personal opinions, the fact remains that there are brilliant scholars all over the world who hold to faith in Christ, and it is not because they are blind idiots who cling to mythology over reason. And again, I am well aware that there are brilliant scholars on the other side too...but I don't believe that they are driven only by genuine facts. They have a worldview, and it affects their beliefs as well....and they have their own kind of faith. A perfect example would be the two most recent heads of the human genome project - both have access to the same information, one is a believer, one is not. There is more than factual information at play there.
We are so thankful that our second daughter, Lillian Elizabeth "Lily", was born healthy and happy on February 11, 2013. We love her to pieces.
We lost our first daughter, Hannah Grace on May 4, 2011. She was buried on May 14 during a beautiful service at my home church. We are grateful that if she could not be here with us, that she is healed and whole with the Lord. We look forward to the day when we will get to meet her. We love her so much.
Not to sound snarky but if you don't believe in god, what is the harm in having water placed on baby's head? It's not going to cause any harm... I do understand the principal of it but at the same time your husband does believe in God. Idk for me I'd allow the baby to be baptised butndont have a big ceremony or party.
Re: MIL interfering with our decisions about religion (long)
Thanks for the update. I'm really happy to hear you had a happy ending!
Thanks for the update! Good for you and your DH to talk through it and come to an agreement. And good on your DH for being the one to tell his mother and not putting you in that position.
Sorry for the long quote, but this is where I'm coming from, too. DH and I are both Catholic and baptized our baby last year. But, the parents have to attend prep classes, etc, and it surprises me that your MIL was able to make these arrangements with the church without you or DH's involvement.
Like most everyone else, how you raise your child in regard to religion is the decision of parents, not grandparents. If you let MIL get involved, it will set a precedent for years to come. If I were you, I'd have a LNG talk with DH!
DS born: February 2013
TTC #2: Nov. 14
Chemical pregnancy 09/16/15
BFP: 12/25/15 EDD: 09/04/16
OP and H decides on something.
MIL changes the plan.
H gives in to MIL.
OP is mad.
I think I am caught up. It doesn't matter if this was about whether your kid would watch Disney or Nickolodean or about Baptism or Not Baptism... the fact is, your husband changes what you both agreed upom because his mother turned on the water works.
Your husband needs to stand up to mommy and tell her that you both already made a decision. Period. If he truly is giving a second thought about baptism for your joint child, then he needs to come to you with his second thoughts so you can both discuss it.
This is a challenging situation and I am sorry. I think her heart is in the right place, but she is out of line with this. And honestly, if she is a Christian, she knows that baptism in and of itself does not save (though I realize Catholics have very specific beliefs on the importance of this with regards to babies...I don't share those or feel like they are Biblical, but those that hold then usually do so pretty strongly).
I don't really have any advice other than that you and your husbands are the ones who need to make this choice and the MIL should realize that it has no effect on the eternal destination of her grandbaby.
One thing I will point out from one of your comments is that you seem to imply that science and faith are in conflict....and they are not. In fact, as I study more, I see how complementary they are. I would encourage you to read something by John Lennox, I have been enjoying his rebuttal to Stephen Hawking's last book, but he has other one called "God's Undertaker: Has Science Buried God" that might be of interest to you. Anyway, I just thought this was worth noting as it is a common misconception that the 2 must be mutually exclusive, and that is just not so.
Good luck to you with this sticky situation!
We are so thankful that our second daughter, Lillian Elizabeth "Lily", was born healthy and happy on February 11, 2013. We love her to pieces.
We lost our first daughter, Hannah Grace on May 4, 2011. She was buried on May 14 during a beautiful service at my home church. We are grateful that if she could not be here with us, that she is healed and whole with the Lord. We look forward to the day when we will get to meet her. We love her so much.
This is a completely different debate for a completely different venue. There is a very vast array of perspectives people can take on this - but many of us disagree completely on the compatibility of faith and fact..
Right ovary removed 09.04.2012 via vertical laparotomy
Essure implant placed on remaining tube 06.13.2013; successful followup scan 09.30.2013
While that is often part of the traditional infant baptism ceremonies, it is not the point of baptism. It is the point of a baby dedication. Baptism in the Bible is the first act of obedience for a new believer in Christ.
I am not trying to start an infant/adult baptism debate. There are valid points and good people on both sides
We are so thankful that our second daughter, Lillian Elizabeth "Lily", was born healthy and happy on February 11, 2013. We love her to pieces.
We lost our first daughter, Hannah Grace on May 4, 2011. She was buried on May 14 during a beautiful service at my home church. We are grateful that if she could not be here with us, that she is healed and whole with the Lord. We look forward to the day when we will get to meet her. We love her so much.
I am well aware of the views on both sides, but there is a rational, reasonable case to be made for the Christian faith and my point was and remains that you do not have to throw out accepted science (not philosophy masquerading as science) to have faith in Christ.
We are so thankful that our second daughter, Lillian Elizabeth "Lily", was born healthy and happy on February 11, 2013. We love her to pieces.
We lost our first daughter, Hannah Grace on May 4, 2011. She was buried on May 14 during a beautiful service at my home church. We are grateful that if she could not be here with us, that she is healed and whole with the Lord. We look forward to the day when we will get to meet her. We love her so much.
Yes. If you can't let go of mythology, you can still compartmentalize your beliefs and accept science or modify your interpretation of your theology to fit science. That doesn't make mythology compatible with science.
/walkingaway
Right ovary removed 09.04.2012 via vertical laparotomy
Essure implant placed on remaining tube 06.13.2013; successful followup scan 09.30.2013
Clearly this is not something you can respectfully debate so I think walking away is wise. Using the term "mythology" to describe Christianity demonstrates a limited understanding of the case for support that exists, in my opinion. You can disagree with that which is put forth as the reasonable case for belief, but to put it on the same level as mythology is just intellectually dishonest.
I have debated with plenty of unbelievers and am familiar with the typical arguments. I strongly disagree with them, but I always try to do so respectfully - I am not sure why this seems to have struck a cord with you like it has, and if offended you, I apologize. Regardless of our personal opinions, the fact remains that there are brilliant scholars all over the world who hold to faith in Christ, and it is not because they are blind idiots who cling to mythology over reason. And again, I am well aware that there are brilliant scholars on the other side too...but I don't believe that they are driven only by genuine facts. They have a worldview, and it affects their beliefs as well....and they have their own kind of faith. A perfect example would be the two most recent heads of the human genome project - both have access to the same information, one is a believer, one is not. There is more than factual information at play there.
We are so thankful that our second daughter, Lillian Elizabeth "Lily", was born healthy and happy on February 11, 2013. We love her to pieces.
We lost our first daughter, Hannah Grace on May 4, 2011. She was buried on May 14 during a beautiful service at my home church. We are grateful that if she could not be here with us, that she is healed and whole with the Lord. We look forward to the day when we will get to meet her. We love her so much.