Swimming question (as part of preschool)

macchiatto · September 2012

If you've got 30 3-year-olds in a swimming pool (3'6" deep) and they each have a life vest on, what do you think would be a reasonable number of adults present to supervise?

Angela814 · September 2012

I personally wouldn't be comfortable with any more than 3 kids in my care, and that's assuming they have well fitting life jackets that they can actually swim in. So I'd say at least 10 adults, preferably 15.

macchiatto · September 2012

We knew that at my boys' preschool the 3's class goes swimming once or twice a month (I think the 4's class goes either twice a month or every week). Today was their first swim day and my friend whose grandson is in the class stayed to watch to see how the swimming went (I had errands to run). She said they were very organized in how they did it, you can tell they'd done it plenty of times before and all the kids did great ... but there were *two* adults in the water with the kids and one other teacher plus one lifeguard watching them on deck. I was a bit shocked. I guess we should have asked more specific questions about the ratio but they mentioned there would be teachers and lifeguards in with them.

My friend said she was sitting with another mom who expressed concerns to the director, who said the parents are welcome to suit up and join in as volunteers so my friend said she'll definitely do that in the future. It's strange b/c we have twins in that class and I won't even take the two of them swimming by myself; we only go if DH is there and we each take one. I was thinking for this they'd have maybe 3-5 kids per adult but apparently not. (It's a Y preschool.)

Angela814 · September 2012

macchiatto:
We knew that at my boys' preschool the 3's class goes swimming once or twice a month (I think the 4's class goes either twice a month or every week). Today was their first swim day and my friend whose grandson is in the class stayed to watch to see how the swimming went (I had errands to run). She said they were very organized in how they did it, you can tell they'd done it plenty of times before and all the kids did great ... but there were *two* adults in the water with the kids and one other teacher plus one lifeguard watching them on deck. I was a bit shocked.
She said she was sitting with another mom who expressed concerns to the director, who said the parents are welcome to suit up and join in as volunteers so my friend said she'll definitely do that in the future. It's strange b/c we have twins in that class and I won't even take the two of them swimming by myself; we only go if DH is there and we each take one. I was thinking for this they'd have maybe 3-5 kids per adult but apparently not. (It's a Y preschool.)

Indifferent I need a mouth hanging open shocked emotion.

We're members of the Y. For preschool swimming lessons (age 3-5), there might be one instructor in the water for 6 kids, but there's never more than 2 kids in the water at any one time. I wouldn't expect anything less for a preschool group swimming. I'm just shocked that they think a 1:15 ratio is appropriate in the water.

macchiatto · September 2012

Yeah, we've been around the Y a lot since DH and I work out there all the time, our boys were in the preschool there last spring (the 2's class doesn't go swimming though), we've seen lots of group and private swimming lessons going on, we did a WaterBabies swim class with our boys last fall ... I assumed they'd have the kids take turns like with the swimming lessons and bring in more life guards and more of the aides/childcare workers from the ChildWatch. They've been doing this for years so I'm surprised more parents haven't objected ... or maybe a lot of them just end up "volunteering" to help during swim time? It's by far the least expensive preschool in the area so maybe they all figure you get what you pay for and just pitch in? I'll have to talk to DH about it but I'm pretty sure we'll both end up participating in swim days. (He's fortunately off on Fridays so Friday preschool mornings are usually our date time.)

Angela814 · September 2012

Sometimes I wonder if I'm just more paranoid around water than most people. It just takes a split second for something to happen.

DD2 is in the 2s preschool program right now. We've been very happy with it. How do they even have time to do swimming with the kids? The 3s program here is 2 days/week for 2 hours. That doesn't seem like nearly enough time.

macchiatto · September 2012

At our preschool, the 2's class is 2 mornings/wk, the 3's is 3 mornings, and the 4's is 5 mornings. The "morning" is 3 hrs. They swim for 1/2 hr so with changing in and out of suits it takes up about 1 hr and they just do it 1 or 2 mornings a month.

1026pumpkin · September 2012

I used to be a camp counselor for ages 2-4. The 2-3 yr olds always stayed in the baby pool with a ratio of 1:3. If a particular kid was really interested in swimming and we had enough staff, we'd take them in the big pool 1:1.

With 4 year olds, we had a group of 6-8 kids and they would all sit at the side of the pool and wait for their turn to come in. We had one lifeguard/instructor in the water teaching the lesson with one kid, and me and another counselor would be in the water, each with one kid, and there was a 3rd counselor on the deck watching the kids who were waiting, plus a lifeguard in a chair keeping an eye on everyone....

Basically what we did was demonstrate a skill (kicking, blowing bubbles, etc.) and give the kids a few minutes to practice, and then they'd switch places with the kids on deck. We'd switch back and forth for about 30-40 minutes worth of lesson time. Every kid in the water had a designated adult holding them or near them with 1:1 attention at all times, PLUS the lifeguard in the chair who could assist if needed.

FWIW, the lifeguards we worked with didn't like lifevests/floaties because they thought it instilled a false sense of security in both the parents (who might pay less attention) and the kids (who would think they could swim on their own when they couldn't). I wouldn't feel comfortable with the ratio you described. I think AAP recommends 1:1 supervision in arm's reach at all times until kids are 5 (?) and have stronger swimming skills.

Littlejen22 · September 2012

macchiatto:
We knew that at my boys' preschool the 3's class goes swimming once or twice a month I think the 4's class goes either twice a month or every week. Today was their first swim day and my friend whose grandson is in the class stayed to watch to see how the swimming went I had errands to run. She said they were very organized in how they did it, you can tell they'd done it plenty of times before and all the kids did great ... but there were two adults in the water with the kids and one other teacher plus one lifeguard watching them on deck. I was a bit shocked. I guess we should have asked more specific questions about the ratio but they mentioned there would be teachers and lifeguards in with them.My friend said she was sitting with another mom who expressed concerns to the director, who said the parents are welcome to suit up and join in as volunteers so my friend said she'll definitely do that in the future. It's strange b/c we have twins in that class and I won't even take the two of them swimming by myself; we only go if DH is there and we each take one. I was thinking for this they'd have maybe 35 kids per adult but apparently not. It's a Y preschool.

The only issue here is your friend will go and watch HER kid, the rest will be no safer. And being in the water does not let you see a whole lot. Personally i knew I would pull my son from his old daycare before they started swimming because I did not think that was safe.

Also, just because they have done it for years without an accident does not make it safe. You could probably drive without your toddler in a car seat and never get hurt but it still not safe and you would not know until you know.

weddedwife · September 2012

I would not be comfortable with this at all. A 1:1 or 1:2 ratio at the most is all I could stomach. And only if it was a certified swim instructor, not just a preschool teacher or another parent.

I used to be a lifeguard/swim instructor. And yes, the life jackets are a bad idea. It does instill false confidence in both parents & kids. Same thing with the water wings, the swim suits with the built-in life jackets, etc.

NJLH · September 2012

My girls start weekly swimming in preschool in a few weeks. I'm a nervous wreck but I've only heard good things about it. I never thought to ask how many instructors (I know its a group)...good question. They have school 9-1130 3 days a week. Swimming will be Mondays at 11 (then we pick them up from the pool area).

macchiatto · September 2012

Littlejen22:
macchiatto:
We knew that at my boys' preschool the 3's class goes swimming once or twice a month I think the 4's class goes either twice a month or every week. Today was their first swim day and my friend whose grandson is in the class stayed to watch to see how the swimming went I had errands to run. She said they were very organized in how they did it, you can tell they'd done it plenty of times before and all the kids did great ... but there were two adults in the water with the kids and one other teacher plus one lifeguard watching them on deck. I was a bit shocked. I guess we should have asked more specific questions about the ratio but they mentioned there would be teachers and lifeguards in with them.My friend said she was sitting with another mom who expressed concerns to the director, who said the parents are welcome to suit up and join in as volunteers so my friend said she'll definitely do that in the future. It's strange b/c we have twins in that class and I won't even take the two of them swimming by myself; we only go if DH is there and we each take one. I was thinking for this they'd have maybe 35 kids per adult but apparently not. It's a Y preschool.
The only issue here is your friend will go and watch HER kid, the rest will be no safer. And being in the water does not let you see a whole lot. Personally i knew I would pull my son from his old daycare before they started swimming because I did not think that was safe. Also, just because they have done it for years without an accident does not make it safe. You could probably drive without your toddler in a car seat and never get hurt but it still not safe and you would not know until you know.

Right, obviously having one extra adult wouldn't solve all problems. That wasn't my point in mentioning it; just that parents have that option. I think DH and I will start doing that and I'm guessing a lot of the other parents will too. I'm curious if that's what happened in the past b/c if they've been doing it this way for a while with these types of ratios, you'd think parents in prior years would have all brought it up, too, kwim? I think us going in is a better option than finding a way for our kids to opt out of swim times.

And yes, I've heard that about life vests but I've heard mixed things about them from experienced life guards and swim instructors; the rule at our Y is that swimmers under 48" (the pool is 42") must wear a life vest or pass the swim test (swim 1 lap, tread water for 1 min, swim all the way back) to be in the pool, period. That applies to family swim times as well. That doesn't apply to the actual swim lessons but the preschool swim time is just a group swim, not a lesson.

Oh and yes, I didn't say it made it safe. I said (in my following post) "they've been doing this for years so I'm surprised more parents haven't objected." I asked here about a reasonable ratio because I certainly didn't think 1:15 in the water is reasonable but I wasn't sure what is since my own preference is 1:1 but I know group swim lessons usually start at 3.

macchiatto · September 2012

NJLH:
My girls start weekly swimming in preschool in a few weeks. I'm a nervous wreck but I've only heard good things about it. I never thought to ask how many instructors (I know its a group)...good question. They have school 9-1130 3 days a week. Swimming will be Mondays at 11 (then we pick them up from the pool area).

Yeah, definitely ask, because with all that we had seen so far re: the Y and water safety, we had no reason to believe they'd have such crazy ratios for the preschool swim time!

penguingrrl · September 2012

I won't take my kids swimming without another adult, so I would really not be okay with a 15:1 ratio at all. I also will not allow my children to wear a life vest in the pool because of the false sense of security issue. My sister's former fiance was a lifeguard, swim instructor and Div 1 college swimmer and I follow his advice on this stuff and he is strongly opposed to using anything.

macchiatto · September 2012

-auntie-:
Do you know for a fact that all 30 are in the water at once. DS took a cluster-fook swim class at the Y once. 30 kids, 3 dedicated adults in the water plus instructor. Also the pools regular guard staff on duty. 2-3 kids in the water at a time per adult who less than arms length away. The rest were on the wall. Total waste of time, but DS enjoyed it.

You may be surprised that a significant number of the 30 are already swimmers.

I hope so! DH and I are definitely planning to be there next time to see for ourselves. They're only going swimming once in Oct. Our friend said that of the 30 minutes of swim time, all the kids were in the water for about 20 mins of it. She did say a chunk of the kids stayed on/right near the stairs and some of them just went in the water for a little bit and then came out.

Swimming question (as part of preschool)

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