Formula by the bedside of BF baby

missgooseyface · September 2012

I just want to know if I'm being unreasonable. DD is settling into the new NICU me too I guess, I miss my nurses lol and today I went in to visit and there was an open box of formula with 2 bottles missing. I have a GREAT supply of breast milk, half of which is at the hospital with DD so I asked the nurse why it was there and had she been fed formula? The nurse said "I dont know why it's there it shouldn't be. I don't think she was fed formula" and took it away. It's been bothering me so I called to ask if she could please check her chart. Well she asked me to call back because she was in the middle of DDs cares. I said that was fine. When I called back, she was with another baby. I feel like she is brushing this off but it is very important to me that DD only gets breast milk. Am I being unreasonable?? Why else would a box with missing bottles be by her bedside?! At the other NICU, each baby had their own things at their bedsides and things werent shared. Maybe I'm just not used to this nicu? Thoughts?

katie4253 · September 2012

Uh, yeah, you are overreacting. The nurse was probably carrying it, your LO needed something, so she put it down. No big deal.

missgooseyface · September 2012

katie4253:
Uh, yeah, you are overreacting.nbsp; The nurse was probably carrying it, your LO needed something, so she put it down.nbsp; No big deal.nbsp;

I should clarify...it wasn't just on the counter, it was in a bin with other feeding supplies like syringes and lines....

katie4253 · September 2012

Also, is she *was* fed formula. I also don't think it is that big of a deal. If it was really early on, maybe. But, since it looks like she is past 32 weeks, the risk of NEC is very low at this point. So, a small change up is okay.

Also, is your bm being fortified with HMF? If so, that is basically concentrated formula to boost the cals of your milk. A little formula would be even less of an issue (imo) if she is already receiving fortified milk.

missgooseyface · September 2012

I realize that getting formula a couple times is not the end of the world. What concerns me more is that the nurse didn't take the time to check the freezer and/or chart and feed the correct thing. That is more the issue. And I do realize mistakes happen, but this seems like a very basic thing.

katie4253 · September 2012

missgooseyface:
I realize that getting formula a couple times is not the end of the world. What concerns me more is that the nurse didn't take the time to check the freezer and/or chart and feed the correct thing. That is more the issue. And I do realize mistakes happen, but this seems like a very basic thing.

I have a feeling you are stressing about other stuff and this is getting the brunt of your focus. Since you are new to that side of the NICU it seems to have just been an oversight. It was a little thing, which is probably why it was overlooked (if it actually happened).

There were times that things happened in the NICU that I felt shouldn't have happened. All we could do was just address it and move forward. If this becomes a pattern of behavior, then absolutely yes make a bigger deal out of it.

I know it is stressful that the milk you worked so hard to pump might not have been used, though.

missgooseyface · September 2012

katie4253:
missgooseyface:
I realize that getting formula a couple times is not the end of the world. What concerns me more is that the nurse didn't take the time to check the freezer and/or chart and feed the correct thing. That is more the issue. And I do realize mistakes happen, but this seems like a very basic thing.
I have a feeling you are stressing about other stuff and this is getting the brunt of your focus.  

Possible...thanks for your thoughts. I'll let it go and keep my eye on it. I made it very clear today that she's only to get breast milk. So I'll keep watch :

pathfindermon · September 2012

I don't think that your being unreasonable. That seems like a basic thing that the nurse should know. And she should also be able to tell you right away what your DD was fed. I'm sure that having formula a few times won't hurt your lo but it's the point that the nurse should be more on top of things. I'm glad that you brought it up to them and that they won't make that mistake again.

missgooseyface · September 2012

pathfindermon:
it's the point that the nurse should be more on top of things.nbsp;

Yes! This!

missgooseyface · September 2012

I didn't see her chart, but was told over the phone that she has only been given breast milk "by what she could see". She said as Katie mentioned that maybe a nurse had it in their hands and set it down to help my LO if she was crying or something...and I get that that could happen, it's just a little strange that it wasn't just on the counter but in a bin with other feeding supplies. Regardless, I'm going to let it go but will be watching closely for any other incidents for sure. The nurse also said she will let everyone know that I have a good supply and not to feed anything other than breast milk.

pinkeggs · September 2012

katie4253:
Also, is she *was* fed formula. I also don't think it is that big of a deal. If it was really early on, maybe. But, since it looks like she is past 32 weeks, the risk of NEC is very low at this point. So, a small change up is okay.
Also, is your bm being fortified with HMF? If so, that is basically concentrated formula to boost the cals of your milk. A little formula would be even less of an issue (imo) if she is already receiving fortified milk.

:lurker:

I feel like you are being very flippant over something that is a legitimate concern. There are two issues here:

1. This information should be available upfront if OP asked for it, not with a half-assed answer. When your baby is in the NICU, you want to know that they are being cared for to the nurses' utmost ability (as you yourself know, of course)

2. It is a big deal to some people that their babies remain exclusively breastfed with no foreign substance introduced. It was for me. You can google "virgin gut" and see all the support for this. Of course formula won't kill anyone, but if it's important to the mother that the baby not receive it, then it shouldn't even be a discussion.

I don't want to start a FF vs. BF discussion here, but I think everyone can agree that the choice of the mother should be respected.

katie4253 · September 2012

pinkeggs:
katie4253:
Also, is she *was* fed formula. I also don't think it is that big of a deal. If it was really early on, maybe. But, since it looks like she is past 32 weeks, the risk of NEC is very low at this point. So, a small change up is okay.
Also, is your bm being fortified with HMF? If so, that is basically concentrated formula to boost the cals of your milk. A little formula would be even less of an issue (imo) if she is already receiving fortified milk.
:lurker:
I feel like you are being very flippant over something that is a legitimate concern. There are two issues here:
1. This information should be available upfront if OP asked for it, not with a half-assed answer. When your baby is in the NICU, you want to know that they are being cared for to the nurses' utmost ability (as you yourself know, of course)
2. It is a big deal to some people that their babies remain exclusively breastfed with no foreign substance introduced. It was for me. You can google "virgin gut" and see all the support for this. Of course formula won't kill anyone, but if it's important to the mother that the baby not receive it, then it shouldn't even be a discussion.
I don't want to start a FF vs. BF discussion here, but I think everyone can agree that the choice of the mother should be respected.

I am not being flippant. I just stating my opinion. IMO, this wasn't a big deal. The "virgin gut" is almost never true for preemies that need to gain weight. I am sure if a poll was done on here the vast majority of women would say they had to use HMF or something similar to get their babies to gain weight.

Actually, did you have a preemie? If you did I doubt you would have made the "virgin gut" comment...

Mrs. Alice · September 2012

pinkeggs:
katie4253:

Also, is she *was* fed formula. I also don't think it is that big of a deal. If it was really early on, maybe. But, since it looks like she is past 32 weeks, the risk of NEC is very low at this point. So, a small change up is okay.

Also, is your bm being fortified with HMF? If so, that is basically concentrated formula to boost the cals of your milk. A little formula would be even less of an issue (imo) if she is already receiving fortified milk.

:lurker:

I feel like you are being very flippant over something that is a legitimate concern. There are two issues here:

1. This information should be available upfront if OP asked for it, not with a half-assed answer. When your baby is in the NICU, you want to know that they are being cared for to the nurses' utmost ability (as you yourself know, of course)

2. It is a big deal to some people that their babies remain exclusively breastfed with no foreign substance introduced. It was for me. You can google "virgin gut" and see all the support for this. Of course formula won't kill anyone, but if it's important to the mother that the baby not receive it, then it shouldn't even be a discussion.

I don't want to start a FF vs. BF discussion here, but I think everyone can agree that the choice of the mother should be respected.

Except that in this case a 29 weeker should be receiving BM with human milk fortifier (HMF) so the virgin gut doesn't really apply.

My perspective is that it is not a huge deal if she recieved formula, but what is unsettling is the reason why she did if there was BM available and that is what was ordered. If it wasn't documented that she received it, try to just move on from it. NICU moms know how hard it is to leave trust in strangers to care for our babies so I can totally understand your concerns.

From personal experience, my NICU had limited freezer/fridge space so I could never leave a huge amount of BM with them. Nobody had informed me that their stash was low until I received a call early in the morning telling me that I needed to bring some in or they would get formula. It was upsetting because of all the time and effort I put into to pumping and having more than enough BM for them that the thought of them receiving formula because nobody bothered telling me until it was too late made me angry. Looking back, everything is intensfied in the NICU because of the sheer amount of stress you are undergoing.

urbanflowerpot · September 2012

missgooseyface:
pathfindermon:
it's the point that the nurse should be more on top of things.nbsp;
Yes! This!

TBH I think this is what you're looking to hear but you asked, and yes, I do think you're being unreasonable. It's really hard when you're in NICU and you're focused on your baby and full of tension so you're not seeing the full picture. The nurses are terribly busy and their priority is to take care of their charges. You don't know what's going on with other LO's and if there was a need - an emergency, a feeding, a change, whatever - they're going to tend to that before debating formula with you. It was probably left there by accident - maybe on their way rushing to help another baby. Maybe not, but it's unlikely she was given formula. I think you'd be more upset if a nurse was tending to your LO and left to take a phone call about this. Just wait, check the charts, talk to your charge nurse/leave a message, and/or leave a sweet reminder note on your isolette that DD is a BF babe.

urbanflowerpot · September 2012

pinkeggs:
katie4253:
Also, is she *was* fed formula. I also don't think it is that big of a deal. If it was really early on, maybe. But, since it looks like she is past 32 weeks, the risk of NEC is very low at this point. So, a small change up is okay.
Also, is your bm being fortified with HMF? If so, that is basically concentrated formula to boost the cals of your milk. A little formula would be even less of an issue (imo) if she is already receiving fortified milk.
:lurker:
I feel like you are being very flippant over something that is a legitimate concern. There are two issues here:
1. This information should be available upfront if OP asked for it, not with a half-assed answer. When your baby is in the NICU, you want to know that they are being cared for to the nurses' utmost ability (as you yourself know, of course)
2. It is a big deal to some people that their babies remain exclusively breastfed with no foreign substance introduced. It was for me. You can google "virgin gut" and see all the support for this. Of course formula won't kill anyone, but if it's important to the mother that the baby not receive it, then it shouldn't even be a discussion.
I don't want to start a FF vs. BF discussion here, but I think everyone can agree that the choice of the mother should be respected.

Uhm, "lurker", HMF is formula. It's a preemie thing. OP asked for our opinions. I think this is the first (and I hope only) time I see the words "virgin gut" on the preemie board. There will be no FF vs BF debate, either, because we don't do that here.

Bluebird2318 · September 2012

Mrs. Alice:
Except that in this case a 29 weeker should be receiving BM with human milk fortifier (HMF) so the virgin gut doesn't really apply.

This... I was in NICU for a little over two months, spoke to many parents on their way through, heard doctors doing their rounds all the time, and I don't think any babies born that small were on anything less than a 24 cal. mix once they were progressed far enough to handle the fortification. Mine even went up to 30 cal. towards the end and had to have oil added for extra fat calories. That being said, if my baby had been fed straight formula intentionally and repeatedly when my BM was available I would have been upset. "Repeatedly" being the key word there though; I would have tolerated an accidental mix-up as long as it didn't become a consistent issue. NICU life is so hard though, so I really don't blame OP for overreacting at first.

PhillyGal34 · September 2012

OP- I personally do not think that your concern is unreasonable re: wanting to know the truth about what was done. if they made a mistake, and I am sure it would be just that... a mistake and not a mean spirited "haha I'm giving this BF baby formula for fun!" they need to tell you and apologize and move on. it does not mean that they are horrible nurses or doctors but I would be upset as well. the bigger issue, as some PP's mentioned is that they don't seem to know or want to give an answer. that would not sit well with me. I understand that there are other children there and of course I would never want a child ignored but absent an emergency or immediate need for care for another child mine comes first... to me. And I expect that most parents would feel the same way. If I ever called to check on my son and the nurse was busy with another baby they always called me back as soon as they could or I talked to another nurse who had all the information on the chart. Some nurses were better than others and some spent more time talking to us than others but they always had the information there when we asked.

FWIW my NICU also kept separate supplies for every child. They were all labeled. So if there was formula at a station it was for that baby. One day I came in and found formula by his station with his name. I asked why it was there and they advised me that they increased his feeds and he ran out of milk over night (this was before my milk really came in). I had milk with me that I had pumped over night which would have been enough if I had known. I was upset for a second but then realized that the other option was either driving to the NICU at 2 am or my baby not eating. Clearly they made the correct call and I trusted them with that. The formula didn't hurt him and I don't think that is really your concern (if I am reading correctly). I believe that communication is VERY important in the parent- NICU relationship and it seems like your concern is with that... which I find to be very reasonable. If you do not get an answer you are happy with I would talk to a doctor on call. My recommendation would be to look at your child's chart, ours was always accessible to us, and see if there is any reason to be concerned. If not, I'd try to move on. If so, talk to someone.

Best of luck!

katie4253 · September 2012

Since our "lurker friend" didn't return, I going to assume she did not have a preemie and did not know what the heck she was talking about re: the "virgin gut". However, I find it incredibly unsettling that someone would be lurking on the preemie board for fun. Not only that, I find it more unsettling that if you were a true lurker you would have lurked and learned the climate of the board before jumping in (since that's the lurker's motto. Lurk long enough to know what you are talking about before jumping in!)

OPer, I hope you are feeling more settled today. It sounds like yesterday was a day filled with transition and questions weren't answered the way you expected. I hope things are getting better!

urbanflowerpot · September 2012

BostonKisses2:
katie4253:
Since our "lurker friend" didn't return, I going to assume she did not have a preemie and did not know what the heck she was talking about re: the "virgin gut". However, I find it incredibly unsettling that someone would be lurking on the preemie board for fun. Not only that, I find it more unsettling that if you were a true lurker you would have lurked and learned the climate of the board before jumping in (since that's the lurker's motto. Lurk long enough to know what you are talking about before jumping in!)
OPer, I hope you are feeling more settled today. It sounds like yesterday was a day filled with transition and questions weren't answered the way you expected. I hope things are getting better!
You know, I was thinking about this a lot yesterday. There are certain boards on here that I understand people lurk on because they have a need to, but those are also boards that really aren't meant to be lurked on for S&G. It makes me squicky that people are lurking here for funsies. It's almost equivalent to people lurking on the loss boards or CFNBC just for kicks. I don't mind people coming in to ask questions about how to help a friend, and certainly don't mind people looking for help when they think they might have a preemie, but that post yesterday really unsettled and upset me.

^ Ditto, BK2. I was appalled over the "virgin gut" term - just, what? IMO I think a lot of avid EBF'ers troll the whole Bump looking for BF'ing questions. I've seen some evidence of that before and it annoys the daylights out of me. It also bothers me when preemie moms go over there and ask for help and they get read the riot act/feel incompetent/are given poor advice re: prematurity BF'ing which is a totally diff situation (this happened to me a few times before I realized - they're in a different boat and can't understand/help me).

Anyway.

OP, I'm sorry your post kinda got hijacked and I hope you'll update us with how you've been feeling.

I never intend to sound harsh, so I hope my response to you (not Virgin Gut) didn't come across that way. The longer you're out of NICU the more you forget (true story - it will happen!) and I remember being so stressed out that something like that would have set me off like a wildfire. That's also been nagging at me because while I think you overreacted and asked a public forum for an opinion - I didn't give you what I would have felt/thought then. BF'ing is obviously very important to me as we are still going strong at 18 mo. It was the only thing I had planned to do and I kind of lost it when that was taken from me via having him early. When they told me about HMF I was like, wait, you're going to put FORMULA in my BM???!?!?!?!!?! I didn't understand at the time. Once I settled into NICU I realized why it was important. I used to say stuff like "he's never had formula" and somehow feel better about myself. I'm really opening my heart here, so I hope it's not offending anyone. This isn't how I feel anymore. I used to think "Breast is Best" and all that mantra and in a perfect world, sure, but not in NICU. In NICU surviving and thriving is what's best - moms not losing their minds from PTSD/PPD/stress/shock/trauma/all those emotions - those are what's best. If that means giving up pumping/trying to BF I am 100% for it and know it's a very personal decision and not mine to judge.

This ties back into why the BF'ing trolls bother me so deeply. Stay away from the Preemie Board - you have NO CLUE what it means to BF vs FF if you have a preemie. I don't for a second think you came out of "lurking" by chance on a formula-related post. If you were a real preemie parent there are dozens of stories that would have tugged at your heart because you could related and you wanted to help that mom. NOT over this topic.

Anyway.

I hope you got things sorted, OP, and I understand why you were upset.

missgooseyface · September 2012

*UPDATE* The nurse said LO didn't get formula "as far as she could tell" which just isn't a definitive answer to me. It should be in her chart, she either did or didn't. But I realize that my emotions are on edge still from the whole move and getting to know the new rules of this NICU and new nurses, so I let it go. But if I see it again, I will ask to investigate further. LO went from a Level 4 to a Level 2 NICU...and these nurses are just so much more laid back and don't seem as "on the ball" as the nurses at the other hospital. I am sure they are more than competent, I am just used to something else and it is an adjustment. Yesterday, 10-15 mls of my breast milk was just tossed in the trash by a nurse because it was "left over" (meaning...she drew up too much in the syringe). I was furious, but let it go. I don't understand why ANY of my BM should go to waste because LO is being fed a set amount in a feeding tube....it's not like it was in a bottle and she just didn't take it (even when that happens it goes in the tube after feeding). So I don't know why that happened, it seems very careless to me and yet another thing I will be watching closely. They give me bottles to store my milk in 2 oz. portions, so NONE should go to waste for any reason.

With all that said...I am trying to be more understanding and reasonable because I realize that I am hormonal and honestly just tired of my daughter being in the hospital. I can't wait for this part of the journey to end and have my LO home with me. I am trying not to be such a control freak lol I've had to be the strong one and I'm just tired. I want to cry, I want to mourn my pregnancy, I want to be mad that I was robbed of so many "normal" things, I want to be mad that my daughter has to fight to survive even though she is doing so well - I hate that she spent her first weeks of life fighting.

ugh. Sorry, but yea I guess today is a better day.......I'll see when I get to the hospital.

missgooseyface · September 2012

Thank you

She did take almost a full feeding by bottle yesterday (30 out of 45 mls) which is the most she has taken to date. One of the nurses said usually around 2000 grams they seem to take off. Well, DD was 2010 yesterday. I hope that she *gets it* now and can start to really take off. It is harder it seems with the end somewhat in sight. I am also going to mention something about the BM being tossed if I see it again. Luckily, I do have about 50-60oz in the freezer at home but every single drop counts and as you know was worked hard for!

urbanflowerpot · September 2012

CurlingRocks:
urbanflowerpot:
BostonKisses2:
katie4253:
Since our "lurker friend" didn't return, I going to assume she did not have a preemie and did not know what the heck she was talking about re: the "virgin gut". However, I find it incredibly unsettling that someone would be lurking on the preemie board for fun. Not only that, I find it more unsettling that if you were a true lurker you would have lurked and learned the climate of the board before jumping in (since that's the lurker's motto. Lurk long enough to know what you are talking about before jumping in!)
OPer, I hope you are feeling more settled today. It sounds like yesterday was a day filled with transition and questions weren't answered the way you expected. I hope things are getting better!
You know, I was thinking about this a lot yesterday. There are certain boards on here that I understand people lurk on because they have a need to, but those are also boards that really aren't meant to be lurked on for S&G. It makes me squicky that people are lurking here for funsies. It's almost equivalent to people lurking on the loss boards or CFNBC just for kicks. I don't mind people coming in to ask questions about how to help a friend, and certainly don't mind people looking for help when they think they might have a preemie, but that post yesterday really unsettled and upset me.
^ Ditto, BK2. I was appalled over the "virgin gut" term - just, what? IMO I think a lot of avid EBF'ers troll the whole Bump looking for BF'ing questions. I've seen some evidence of that before and it annoys the daylights out of me. It also bothers me when preemie moms go over there and ask for help and they get read the riot act/feel incompetent/are given poor advice re: prematurity BF'ing which is a totally diff situation (this happened to me a few times before I realized - they're in a different boat and can't understand/help me).
Anyway.
OP, I'm sorry your post kinda got hijacked and I hope you'll update us with how you've been feeling.
I never intend to sound harsh, so I hope my response to you (not Virgin Gut) didn't come across that way. The longer you're out of NICU the more you forget (true story - it will happen!) and I remember being so stressed out that something like that would have set me off like a wildfire. That's also been nagging at me because while I think you overreacted and asked a public forum for an opinion - I didn't give you what I would have felt/thought then. BF'ing is obviously very important to me as we are still going strong at 18 mo. It was the only thing I had planned to do and I kind of lost it when that was taken from me via having him early. When they told me about HMF I was like, wait, you're going to put FORMULA in my BM???!?!?!?!!?! I didn't understand at the time. Once I settled into NICU I realized why it was important. I used to say stuff like "he's never had formula" and somehow feel better about myself. I'm really opening my heart here, so I hope it's not offending anyone. This isn't how I feel anymore. I used to think "Breast is Best" and all that mantra and in a perfect world, sure, but not in NICU. In NICU surviving and thriving is what's best - moms not losing their minds from PTSD/PPD/stress/shock/trauma/all those emotions - those are what's best. If that means giving up pumping/trying to BF I am 100% for it and know it's a very personal decision and not mine to judge.
This ties back into why the BF'ing trolls bother me so deeply. Stay away from the Preemie Board - you have NO CLUE what it means to BF vs FF if you have a preemie. I don't for a second think you came out of "lurking" by chance on a formula-related post. If you were a real preemie parent there are dozens of stories that would have tugged at your heart because you could related and you wanted to help that mom. NOT over this topic.
Anyway.
I hope you got things sorted, OP, and I understand why you were upset.
Urban, I don't think your post came across as harshly to OP as you are thinking it did. I read the whole thread again, and I really mean that. PinkEggs was clearly in the wrong place dispensing poor advice to people she doesn't understand. You called her out, as did other people. (I had to google "virgin gut" because I'd never heard it before. It's propaganda any way you slice it. But then again so is a lot of "advice".) OP got some really great responses and hopefully got through the situation OK. I'm really glad you said how you would feel differently now than in the NICU because I feel the same way. My initial reaction was "NBD", but before I typed it, I thought back to last year and remembered how upset I was over DS's feedings and posted according to that. I was beating myself up for having lost some of my sensitivity to the newbies, though I didn't post about it until now. I think it is important to have opinions from people going through the experience at all stages to add perspective. I'll never understand why anyone would find it fun or exciting to troll a message board for trauma victims, either. I'm glad I'm not the only one who found that unnerving.

I'm going backwards on posts and rushing while DS is sleeping! ::hugs:: CR - when I read this the other day it made me feel better. I don't like to come across the wrong way on the internet - it can be a delicate balance. I've also found it shocking how NICU fades out of your system without even realizing. Anyway, I'm remembering it quite a bit now that I have returned as a volunteer. Oh, and I have actually had a giggle or two over the last few days using the term "virgin gut" around the house with my little dude. It's just...pretty funny! c'mon...say it out loud...I promise you'll laugh

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