Urinating in public

Chocodoxies · September 2012

A mother receives a $50 ticket for allowing her two year old son to urinate on a utility pole in the city. The mother says she will fight the ticket claiming it is unavoidable. What do you think?

Would everyone have the same reaction if this was a little girl squatting and holding her dress up next to that same pole? I think in general society lets boys get away with peeing just about anywhere whereas a little girl doing the same would be considered lewd.

mommysangels · September 2012

Don't like it at all. There are restrooms everywhere and especially in the city. If it was a child or an adult it's wrong - in my opinion.

graciesmurf · September 2012

I am pregnant with my first, so I have no experience but my opinion is that the mother should not have encouraged her son to pee on a utility pole. If she was potty training and still in the stage that he has emergencies then he should be in training shorts.

I don't believe that she should have been ticketed for it.

persephonerose · September 2012

I think she should have received a ticket and I hope they enforce it. If she was not prepared for the consequences then she should not have encouraged her two year old to go urinate in a very public place. It is not an accident if you tell your child to go pee. To me it is nasty and her various arguments about homeless people do it just proves that she should make MORE of an effort to teach her child the appropriate places to urinate.

JJsMum · September 2012

I don't agree with it and think it's disgusting, but if you read the article, it says that they'd asked to use the restroom at the store they were shopping in and were denied. They'd left the store to go find a restroom, but the little guy couldn't make it. Should she have just told him to do it in his pants and then had him walk around in urine soaked pants?

Should she have had training shorts for him? It depends on how trained he is. He did give her enough notice to try to find a potty, but was denied use of it. I think that the store that denied them the bathroom is as much at fault.

Chocodoxies · September 2012

I managed to potty train a little girl and never once did I have to stop in the middle of a metropolitan area and have her drop trou so she could wiz on a pole. I feel that this is only a debate because he is a BOY and boys whip out their penis and whiz at the drop of a damn hat. To most little boys it is a game (spelling their name in the snow, etc.). Urine is sanitary, but not pleasant, and having wet pants really teaches a lesson to the child being potty trained. Perhaps at two he is just too young though. I never could use Pullups because DD would use them instead of using the potty and that defeated all the good work she was doing. If we went out, she wore training panties (thick panties that are not waterproof but stop it from running down her legs). When we left an establishment of any kind I had her sit on the potty for at least a minute so she could "try" and if she didn't go then we would leave. Once we were out and about, if she suddenly claimed she had to go we would try to find a bathroom for her, but on occasion she had an accident. No biggie. Not only did it reinforce for her that she should have gone on the potty when she had the chance, she hated having wet panties on, but she now was stuck in those clothes for a few minutes until I could get to a bathroom and get her changed into the spare set of clothes that I carried. What this mother did may be common, but it shouldn't be. If she is really potty training her child where are the natural consequences for her son that come from not using the potty? I don't believe in shaming, or embarrassing, yelling or spanking, but I do believe in natural consequences. For example, if your 8 year old doesn't want to wear a sweater, but they get cold (unless it is dangerous weather) then they are going to be chilly until we get indoors. Next time, they remember to wear the sweater because they were cold. Clearly this mother was not held to natural consequences as a child or she would have known that public urination naturally results in a ticket.

Rynleigh · September 2012

It's teaching a very inappropriate behaviour. When you gotta go, you gotta go - but that doesn't mean you gotta go on public buildings, utility poles, public sidewalks, park benches, etc. If you cannot get your child to a bathroom, find a bush or a rock away from public view - it isn't just about modesty, it's about health and sanitation. Teaching a child that it is OK to urinate on any surface that other people are likely to come into contact is setting them up for some really terrible habits and putting an unnecessary health risk out there.

Rynleigh · September 2012

Chocodoxies:
Urine is sanitary

This is a common and false misconception. Urine is sterile only until it reaches the urethra. Once it comes within half an inch of being expelled from the body, it is as contaminated as the external genital area is. It is also not sterile if, for any reason, the person has an internal bleed, a bladder infection, or any other active virus or bacteria circulating in their digestive system. If more people spread this information, we might have fewer people who think it is OK to let loose wherever they happen to be.

Chocodoxies · September 2012

Rynleigh:
Chocodoxies:
Urine is sanitary
This is a common and false misconception. Urine is sterile only until it reaches the urethra. Once it comes within half an inch of being expelled from the body, it is as contaminated as the external genital area is. It is also not sterile if, for any reason, the person has an internal bleed, a bladder infection, or any other active virus or bacteria circulating in their digestive system. If more people spread this information, we might have fewer people who think it is OK to let loose wherever they happen to be.

You are completely right. I meant to say "sterile", as sanitary clearly isn't true. Thanks for the clear up.

pinitbaby · September 2012

I'm a mom of three and tbh there have been times where we've been somewhere and no bathroom was available so the bushes had to be deemed a 'rest room'. We used to live in the boonies so travelling from town to town was a half hour road trip. It wasn't in the middle of a public place for all to see and sometimes its an emergency...even when you asked your child if they had to go 10 minutes ago when you were at tim hortins lol As far as a utility pole goes...if they were in the city I'm sure there was a bathroom she could've taken the child to.

saturdaynightdoubletree · September 2012

I wish people made a bigger deal out of this. It is very common where we live when your at the playground or water park to see little boys peeing off to the side into the grass. It annoys me because it is gross, it annoys me because I don't want DD exposed to boy parts this early on, it annoys me because I don't want my kids to think that's okay... I walk dd 500 ft to the bathroom, why is a little boy any different?! I have a friend who lets her daughter squat just about anywhere. DD has NEVER, and DS will not be one of those boys.
Also, a utility pole seems a little excessive. I mean is he a puppy? Why do boys have to pee on things?!

Rynleigh · September 2012

One of the most important parts of potty training is getting your child to understand how to vocalize that they need to go before they are "about to burst". Letting them pee where ever they are when they finally cannot hold it anymore does not help them learn this skill.

First, Mom should have known to immediately to take all three kids to the restroom right after their meal at the diner. We do this anytime we eat out - we tell the girls to go use the restroom and then wash their hands and faces after each meal. It builds a habit of both good bathroom breaks and good hygiene.

Second, if she had an "emergency" like this, she should have picked him up and carried him back to the diner the moment she learned he could not use the restroom at the clothing store. Carrying him would have given him less to focus on, and less chance of having an accident. She should have taken him all the way back without engaging him in conversation or any other distraction.

If she could not get him there in time, she needed to find him a private bush he could pose behind away from public view so he could go, or as a last resort, yes - she should have simply let him have an accident and then cleaned him up. My girls were fully potty trained before the age of 2 - but we carried spare panties and jeans in our car at ALL TIMES until they were each about 4yrs old. Accidents happen, so take them to the car, explain that son needs to tell you sooner next time, change him, and bag up the wets. Making them think it is OK to just go in public on communal property is a very bad example to set for them.

Chocodoxies · September 2012

Rynleigh:
One of the most important parts of potty training is getting your child to understand how to vocalize that they need to go before they are "about to burst". Letting them pee where ever they are when they finally cannot hold it anymore does not help them learn this skill... Making them think it is OK to just go in public on communal property is a very bad example to set for them.

This perfectly sums up how I feel. If you are waiting until your two year old tells you they have to go, often you have waited to long. You must be proactive with your children, thinking of the possibilities before they happen so you are prepared. This is true of many situations (bathroom breaks, long distance trips, late night visits, etc.). Again I would like to point out that I have yet to meet the little girl that freely urinates in public, or the parent that suggests it unless it is a dire emergency. Is it that a boy needn't take down his pants to relieve himself that makes the difference? Honestly, this seems so out of this world to me.

RissKay · September 2012

Chocodoxies:
U.S. News article
A mother receives a $50 ticket for allowing her two year old son to urinate on a utility pole in the city. The mother says she will fight the ticket claiming it is unavoidable. What do you think?
Would everyone have the same reaction if this was a little girl squatting and holding her dress up next to that same pole? I think in general society lets boys get away with peeing just about anywhere whereas a little girl doing the same would be considered lewd.

Not too long ago, there was an article going around about a mother that let her daughter use her porta potty while eating in the middle of a restaurant. They weren't ticketed, because the staff didn't see what was going on at the time, but there was quite an uproar.

I think too much emphasis is put on "Boys can/can't do this and girls can/can't do that." We are the beginning of the end of this sexist mindset, and the less we draw attention to the sex of someone the better.

That being said, I don't think it's appropriate for anyone, boy or girl, to urinate in public. The store should've been fined, rather than the mother, because they DID try to use the facilities, and were denied. I also believe it's illegal for a place of business to not have access to a bathroom for workers, and I can't imagine denying a small child the use of it.

Bride-hilda · September 2012

persephonerose:
I think she should have received a ticket and I hope they enforce it. If she was not prepared for the consequences then she should not have encouraged her two year old to go urinate in a very public place. It is not an accident if you tell your child to go pee. To me it is nasty and her various arguments about homeless people do it just proves that she should make MORE of an effort to teach her child the appropriate places to urinate.

Bravo. Agreed. There's no REAL difference between a 2 year old who can't hold it, and a 21 year old who can't hold it. Emergencies happen, DEAL WITH THEM IN A LAWFUL MANNER!

LadyNikon · September 2012

she took a gamble and now has to pay the price. She should have got him to go potty before they left the restroom. I mean yes accidents happen but a pole?

Chocodoxies · September 2012

I'm confused risskay. Do you feel that I would approve if it were a boy vs. a girl, or that by asking the question I am undermining the strides we have taken toward equality amongst the sexes? I agree wholeheartedly that we force gender roles and allow or disallow too often based on gender norms. That is precisely why this annoys me. Just read the posts of those who feel it is not a big deal that a child should urinate in a very public place. I think it is a very reasonable question to pose whether those that feel this is not out of place would feel the same if the child were female.

PginSA · September 2012

Agree with all of the above in a city, but in a rural or wilderness area, I end up using the bushes half the time myself - and would assume that my child would, too. I guess the trick is teaching the distinction between the middle of nowhere and, say, a friends garden or a public place.

I would have the same rules for girls as boys, however. Just because you have a magic peeing stick doesn't mean you can whip it out wherever you want to.

LadyMadrid08 · September 2012

This happens in Madrid all.the.time. I would see it in Madrid at least once every couple weeks and yes, right outside stores and cafes the parents could've taken their kids in. I don't get it. I think it's disgusting and it was just as often a girl lifted up with her legs held apart as it was a boy up against a tree.

I'm glad she got fined. I think it's pretty gross and unacceptable unless you're in the woods (or perhaps even a big park) with no access to a toilet.

RissKay · September 2012

Chocodoxies:
I'm confused risskay. Do you feel that I would approve if it were a boy vs. a girl, or that by asking the question I am undermining the strides we have taken toward equality amongst the sexes? I agree wholeheartedly that we force gender roles and allow or disallow too often based on gender norms. That is precisely why this annoys me. Just read the posts of those who feel it is not a big deal that a child should urinate in a very public place. I think it is a very reasonable question to pose whether those that feel this is not out of place would feel the same if the child were female.

Heavens no! I just think that the sex of the child shouldn't be brought up by anyone, media included. I do, however, agree that it is reasonable to question whether or not someone would deem this "more appropriate" has it been a little girl. More times than not, though, someone poses the question you did for different, hateful/spiteful/"society hates ___ sex" reasons, and so I apologize for assuming that of you.

I guess the whole thing just bothers me. I get so tired of hearing about all of the "boy vs girl" stuff when it comes to kids, that I jump in head first pleading with those to stop, because it won't ever change unless we make it.

Anyway, I think mom should've not picked a pole. Shoot, she could've had him pee on the tire of her car before the public property of a pole. Ya can't just "go" anywhere, and teaching a kid that they can is bizarre to me. Emergencies happen, but that? Come on.

Meli B · September 2012

Urinating on a utility pole is unacceptable!

dande2129 · September 2012

It sounds like she allowed him to pee on the pole because she was pissed about being denied restroom access for her son. Though I can understand being frustrated, there are laws in place, sorry. Enjoy the $50 ticket, lady. IMO, it's not anyone else's fault but her own. Like PPs have said--- accidents happen, but you find a less public place (I mean, even behind/beside a dumpster would be better than right out in the open) to let it go.

I don't think this has anything to do with sex. If it were a girl, she'd have been ticketed too.

Mrs.DeliaMarieP · September 2012

At first I was going to say that it was unacceptable. But, after reading the article, she did try to ask the store she was in to allow them to use the bathroom and was refused. She was heading back to the diner when the 2 year old couldn't hold it. In that case, since she only allowed the little one to go, and not the older 9 year old, I think she was pretty justified, and most likely the ticket will be dropped in court. The only thing I think she could have done differently would have been to try to get around a corner and be a little more discreet rather than in the middle of the street/on a grassy spot.

The only time I've ever had to allow DS to pee in public and couldn't get to a restroom, I took him behind a building and shielded him from being able to be seen.

I do agree with her, that, with a 2 year old or really any potty training child, they don't let you know they have to go until it is about to come out, so sometimes, it is necessary, and yes I would do the same for my girl if it reached that point. But again, I would try to shield her and be discreet about it.

I think it is deplorable that the store refused to allow children to use their restroom, especially the two year old. There is no excuse for that.

ETA: I also think the mother could have been a little more prepared by having a spare diaper in her bag for just this exact scenario. However, the one time I did have to let DS pee in public was the one time that I forgot the diaper bag at home, so maybe that was the case for her as well. It happens.

luckymom3 · September 2012

JJsMum:
I don't agree with it and think it's disgusting, but if you read the article, it says that they'd asked to use the restroom at the store they were shopping in and were denied. They'd left the store to go find a restroom, but the little guy couldn't make it. Should she have just told him to do it in his pants and then had him walk around in urine soaked pants?

Should she have had training shorts for him? It depends on how trained he is. He did give her enough notice to try to find a potty, but was denied use of it. I think that the store that denied them the bathroom is as much at fault.

This.

mamasmurf12 · September 2012

You let your dog pee on a utility pole...not your son!

Wild_flower25 · September 2012

no way. kids need to be taught what is socially acceptable and appropriate.

it's sad that its such a child-centered country we live in. We let them get away with murder to avoid a little whining or disappointment because they had an accident.

moonglow_84 · September 2012

I'm certain that the mother could have ushered her child into a restaurant or store somewhere close by and asked to use the bathroom. I know kids get really anxious when they have to go and don't feel like they can hold it, but I don't think that's an excuse for the mother to have let her child (or encouraged him to) do that. Most of the time, they can hold it for a few minutes & are just being dramatic.

Chocodoxies · September 2012

RissKay:
Chocodoxies:
U.S. News article
A mother receives a $50 ticket for allowing her two year old son to urinate on a utility pole in the city. The mother says she will fight the ticket claiming it is unavoidable. What do you think?
Would everyone have the same reaction if this was a little girl squatting and holding her dress up next to that same pole? I think in general society lets boys get away with peeing just about anywhere whereas a little girl doing the same would be considered lewd.

Not too long ago, there was an article going around about a mother that let her daughter use her porta potty while eating in the middle of a restaurant. They weren't ticketed, because the staff didn't see what was going on at the time, but there was quite an uproar.
I think too much emphasis is put on "Boys can/can't do this and girls can/can't do that." We are the beginning of the end of this sexist mindset, and the less we draw attention to the sex of someone the better.
That being said, I don't think it's appropriate for anyone, boy or girl, to urinate in public. The store should've been fined, rather than the mother, because they DID try to use the facilities, and were denied. I also believe it's illegal for a place of business to not have access to a bathroom for workers, and I can't imagine denying a small child the use of it.

I see what you mean. The point I was intending to get across, though I may have missed the mark a bit, was that it seems that it is much more likely for a boy, of any age, to urinate wherever he pleases simply because they have access to the "magic hose" without completely dropping their pants and exposing their rear ends. Hell, the first time I met my cousin's BF he got a ticket for urinating in my front yard because he was on the phone and he didn't want to come inside. He was freaking 20 years old and this was the middle of the day! He was genuinely shocked when my neighbor was offended and called the police (that neighbor still thinks I am trash because of this), and thought that the ticket was way over the top. I was FURIOUS! How dare you? I understand if you are out in the boonies, but this is a problem with boys and their wee sticks all the time! Teenagers peeing off of balconies, drunk men urinating in parking lots. I am sure that women do the same, however I have seen many a man getting a kick of writing his name on the pavement and I have yet to run across the woman who is holding up her skirt and openly peeing on my front lawn drunk or not.

JBos82 · September 2012

No one should be urinating in public. It's illegal for a reason, is it not? In the past week alone I have seen two adult men just wizzing in public: one on a tree at a golf course by our house, the other on the side of I-95 when I was on my way to work (he was travelling in the opposite direction and less than 2 miles from a rest stop). Their parents probably let them do that as kids and that's why it's no big deal to them now.

I admit, I have a long commute and there are days where I get home and I have to run to the bathroom without closing the door to the house or even having my keys leave my hand (pregnant or not). But what you don't see is me poppin' a squat by the side of the road.

So yeah, the mother should get the $50 ticket and learn her lesson. Ask the child before you leave the house if they have to go. Ask them before you go into the store. Ask them when you're leaving. Ask ask ask because they may not tell you until it's too late. And if the store says no, then they hold it until you get somewhere they can use the toilet. And if they can't hold it, then make sure you have a change of shorts in the car.

maiatene · September 2012

RissKay:

Not too long ago, there was an article going around about a mother that let her daughter use her porta potty while eating in the middle of a restaurant. They weren't ticketed, because the staff didn't see what was going on at the time, but there was quite an uproar.

That happened last week and that was truly disgusting, disrespectful and lazy on the parents part (IMO)

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/05/potty-training-in-restaurant-_n_1858510.html

As for the topic at hand I agree the mother should have gotten a ticket. No one (adult/child/boy/girl/indifferent) should pee on the street if they cant find a bathroom. I get that you dont want to walk around with a urine soaked child but as the adult you have to do better than that. If its a potty training issue I think she should have some sort of contingency plan in case something like this occurs (this is my first child so I dont know how realistic that is). I always make it a point to know where the bathrooms in malls/supermarkets etc, moreso now that I cant seem to go more than 10sec w/o having to go, so I would imagine I would definitely make it my business to know where they were if I were traveling with a child.

From a store owers perspective, I can understand why they didnt let her use their bathroom - its a liability issue. If something were to happen to them while they were in the back of the store the mother can sue and potentially put the store out of business. It seems cruel but the store manager was just covering their ass. Not having access to that particular restroom is not an excuse for that behavior

Shay4ster · September 2012

The kid was 2 years old and they are unpredicatable and don't always go when they're suppossed to. Yes, part of potty training is getting them to listen to their bodies and understand the cues, but come on, the kid was 2 and it was a one time situation! And the article says that she told him to find a grassy patch, didnt actually instruct him to go on a pole. He decided on the pole himself, which was wrong but again, hes two. I think she should fight it and chalk it up to lesson learned or the fact that hes a toddler.

markhamgurl · September 2012

Wow, what a hot topic! I have to admit, though, these innocent little boys that are encouraged to urinate on utility poles out in public when in "emergency" situations (ie. not out-of-view in the bushes) are the same ones that I have the pleasure of observing as adults urinating in public parks against stone walls, in back alleys, and on the side of the road (as in, RIGHT on the shoulder so I can see their wang).

I was unfortunate enough to even catch sight of a man urinating at the edge of a forest in a parking lot a couple of weeks ago. He obviously couldn't be bothered to walk IN to the forest AT ALL, so as we drove past, my eyes swept over where he was standing and I got a great view of his urine stream. Awesome. Thanks, dude.

I agree that it wouldn't be acceptable if a woman decided to squat and piss in a public place. As per one of the PPs here, that would absolutely be considered lewd. How should it be any different for men?

MCRM22011 · September 2012

If she was in a restaurant, she should have made her children go to the bathroom before they left. I remember my parents constantly asking if we had to go to the bathroom to avoid an emergency. We always went before we left a restaurant, store, mall, etc so that we didn't have to go while we were in the car. I don't think it's acceptable for any child to urinate in public.

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