Really?

happywifemomofone · August 2012

Went to my Gyne office this am for my annual PAP and to get an order for a mammogram this Fall. 20 something year old tech/or nurse who took my history just didn't have a clue what I've been through. After giving history of my 3 IVFs and moving on to DE IVF, she says "I know what you're going trough. My husband and I are TTC." I wanted to bark back, "NO, I'M SORRY.....YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE!!" The OB/GYN Dr. didn't seem at all interested that we are moving on to DE. No excitement for us, judgement? Who knows?....but it was an all around unpleasant experience.

I then went to the Dermatologist. My 40 something DR was pregnant when I last saw her 3 years ago. I explained that I hadn't been in because last year we switched to an HMO so we could purse IVF. She went on to tell me about her IVF, and we discussed how celebrities get PG in their 40s and likely used DE. So much more supportive and understanding.

danieleandwayne · August 2012

I don't know if these people are just clueless and well-meaning or if they're just clueless full stop.

I went down to the ED a few weeks back (before I started cross-training there) because I had an allergic reaction to something in a patient's room and he asked if there were any chance I was pregnant. Obviously, I know EXACTLY where I am in my cycle at all times. I said "there is NO way." He said "are you sure?" and I said "MH and I have been TTC now for 11 months and have had one CP. I know exactly whether or not I have a chance of being pregnant at any given moment, pretty much down to the hour." He said "I was up all night last night with the daughter it took my wife and I 6 IVFs to have."

Thanks. You're a doctor. You may have more student loans than I do-- which I'm sure are going to be waived since you're working in what is considered rural Maine since you rotate to our satellite hospitals-- but you make at least twice what I do. I can't afford one IVF treatment, let alone 6. And I sure as hell don't want to hear that you're tired from being up all night with a baby that I may never get to have.

He meant well, but overshot the mark by continuing to talk after saying "I hear what your saying-- it was tough for my wife and I, too."

I'm glad you had a much better talk with your dermatologist!

Mrs.McIrish · August 2012

Sorry Happywife. It is so hard when people say they understand and they really have no clue.

Daniele-- just because someone has money, 6 IVF's is ridiculously hard and I think you are discounting it. I have done 4 IVF's and paid very little for them since I have great insurance. I could continue to cycle but I've had enough at 4. Money doesn't make IVF easy. Maybe accessible but trust me that you would not like doing 6 cycles, especially when they don't work. You are also assuming he has money which you should not. I am a lawyer. I do OK but am certainly not swimming in money as I still have student loans over $75K. You are stereotyping that all doctors are rich and they aren't, especially younger ones.

danieleandwayne · August 2012

Mrs.McIrish:
Sorry Happywife. It is so hard when people say they understand and they really have no clue.

Daniele-- just because someone has money, 6 IVF's is ridiculously hard and I think you are discounting it. I have done 4 IVF's and paid very little for them since I have great insurance. I could continue to cycle but I've had enough at 4. Money doesn't make IVF easy. Maybe accessible but trust me that you would not like doing 6 cycles, especially when they don't work. You are also assuming he has money which you should not. I am a lawyer. I do OK but am certainly not swimming in money as I still have student loans over $75K. You are stereotyping that all doctors are rich and they aren't, especially younger ones.

Didn't mean to come off as stereotyping. I have friends who are doctors and they are not rolling in it, despite having no student loans at all to repay. I know that. And I know 6 IVFs are not easy, even if they are paid for. My point that I was trying (apparently poorly) to make was that people say things like they understand, but they don't because we're not in the same boat. I can't even afford ONE IVF, I make less than half what he makes (I know this for a fact-- and this isn't factoring in what his wife may add to the equation), so why would you mention that to me? My mom is a lawyer and she does pretty well, even though she's not in a high-paying area (immigration)-- but she makes WAY more than she did as a teacher. She certainly didn't drive new cars, let alone a Volvo, when she was a teacher! She says things like that to people, too, and I always ask her if she remembers what it was like when we were a family living off 2 teachers' salaries...

So my point was supposed to be simply that people say things like it's no big deal and then say they understand. They don't. I can't tell you how many of my friends from high school (I went to a private school-- LOADS of wealthy kids) who tell me "just go IVF; it's not worth it to wait." as if that's just an option I have had all along but didn't want to take because I wanted to spend months trying on my own first. They make it sound as easy as just going to my neighbourhood grocery store around the corner with a coupon or something...

This doc knew better afterwards. He realized it after he said it.

ellajune2012 · August 2012

Aw, I'm sorry.

I think sometimes people are well-meaning and forget that it's okay to just say "I'm sorry, that sucks" and leave it at that. When people say stuff like that I don't think they really understand that they might be adding insult to injury or downplaying what you've gone through.

I got a lot of dumb and/or off-putting remarks from people who knew I'd miscarried in December (including my own mother) - but looking back I realize that they did feel bad for me and were, in whatever misguided way, trying to help.

At least if the doc realized it then maybe he'll choose his words a little more carefully next time he's dealing with something like this - not that it helps you, but hopefully the same won't happen to other women.

Mrs.McIrish · August 2012

Daniele- I guess I just don't understand what the doctor did wrong. In my opnion, he does understand your frustration since he went through 6 IVFs to get a baby so 5 IVFs failed. Those failures are soul crushing and took longer than 11 months. Maybe I missed something but you didn't say this doctor said "oh just go do IVF".

mtlaurel · August 2012

Happywife, I would have barked back at her and not held it in. At my last gyn. appt., my Dr. seemed surprised we were going DE, but not judgmental. Then, she tried to be excited and supportive about it, and I shut her down completely. She can be excited if I ever show up in her office PG. Until then, the kindest thing she could do for me is to get me in and out quickly, imo.

happywifemomofone · August 2012

mtlaurel:

Happywife, I would have barked back at her and not held it in. At my last gyn. appt., my Dr. seemed surprised we were going DE, but not judgmental. Then, she tried to be excited and supportive about it, and I shut her down completely. She can be excited if I ever show up in her office PG. Until then, the kindest thing she could do for me is to get me in and out quickly, imo.

Oh trust me, barking back at this young girl did cross my mind. But, ultimately I did know that she meant well......but, truly, truly has NO CLUE. Thinking that I might be shopping for a new OB, if and when I ever get PG. Think that I just wanted to feel like he was on my team, wanting us to be successful (not excited would have been ok-I know better than I wish that there are no guarantees through this whole expensive process) I am very happy with our decision to tell next to know one IRL that we are doing DE......people seem to have all different kind of opinions about things they know nothing about.

happywifemomofone · August 2012

danieleandwayne:
Mrs.McIrish:

Sorry Happywife. It is so hard when people say they understand and they really have no clue.

Daniele-- just because someone has money, 6 IVF's is ridiculously hard and I think you are discounting it. I have done 4 IVF's and paid very little for them since I have great insurance. I could continue to cycle but I've had enough at 4. Money doesn't make IVF easy. Maybe accessible but trust me that you would not like doing 6 cycles, especially when they don't work. You are also assuming he has money which you should not. I am a lawyer. I do OK but am certainly not swimming in money as I still have student loans over $75K. You are stereotyping that all doctors are rich and they aren't, especially younger ones.

Didn't mean to come off as stereotyping. I have friends who are doctors and they are not rolling in it, despite having no student loans at all to repay. I know that. And I know 6 IVFs are not easy, even if they are paid for. My point that I was trying (apparently poorly) to make was that people say things like they understand, but they don't because we're not in the same boat. I can't even afford ONE IVF, I make less than half what he makes (I know this for a fact-- and this isn't factoring in what his wife may add to the equation), so why would you mention that to me? My mom is a lawyer and she does pretty well, even though she's not in a high-paying area (immigration)-- but she makes WAY more than she did as a teacher. She certainly didn't drive new cars, let alone a Volvo, when she was a teacher! She says things like that to people, too, and I always ask her if she remembers what it was like when we were a family living off 2 teachers' salaries...

So my point was supposed to be simply that people say things like it's no big deal and then say they understand. They don't. I can't tell you how many of my friends from high school (I went to a private school-- LOADS of wealthy kids) who tell me "just go IVF; it's not worth it to wait." as if that's just an option I have had all along but didn't want to take because I wanted to spend months trying on my own first. They make it sound as easy as just going to my neighbourhood grocery store around the corner with a coupon or something...

This doc knew better afterwards. He realized it after he said it.

Your response was similar to my husbands. At least she could afford IVF (because she's a Doctor), the financials of IF treatments are not fair and never easy. I would say that the financial part of everything is hard-but the emotional side of repeatedly getting your hopes up and then having your cycle fail is much, much harder. You would be surprised at ways that I've seen ladies here and on IF come up with money to do IVF and DE IVF. I started TTC saying we would only try on our own. A year later, we consulted with RE and changed our insurance to an HMO that would cover IVF. Then, we said we were done and changed back to PPO. Now we are waiting for January to cycle because the HMO will cover one more cycle and cut our OOP expenses in half. When you are beginning this journey, you think you know what you will and won't do to get that BFP. It's not until your journey is completely over that you can look back and see how you've changed as a person through all the heartaches and failures throughout the process. You don't think that you can afford IVF and I hope that you never need IVF. But, if and when you do, you find a way to pay for it. If you hang here long enough-you see ladies go through the changes in thoughts and how they deal with the demon of IF. I could have been that nurse that said "I understand because my husband and I are TTC" just a few short years ago. As nurses, we have to know our audience well enough to be careful about making casual comments that could come off as insensitive or lacking of understanding that we know nothing about.

danieleandwayne · August 2012

I absolutely see that side of it. What I was trying to say was that the doctor's comment made me feel like crap. It took them 6 cycles of IVF to get their child. I don't have that option. I've done a ton of research into financials and we just don't have it. So if it took someone with the resources to try 6 freaking times, that makes me feel like even if I COULD find a way to have a cycle of IVF, it wouldn't work. SIX times?!? I'd rather he said nothing than to tell me it took them SIX times. Talk about making the goal seem even more unobtainable.

Not to mention that I was there for an allergic reaction, not (in)fertility counseling.

I hope I managed to explain it better this time...

annalisel · August 2012

You were really nice to not say anything. There really isn't anything you can say to make someone understand if they haven't been there and they aren't going out of their way to empathize.

It makes it even cooler that you connected with the dermatologist who does get it.

annalisel · August 2012

danieleandwayne:

This doc knew better afterwards. He realized it after he said it.

This really says it all. None of us really understand our respective privileges until confronted with other people who don't have them. He's a better person for noticing.

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