Ever heard of this? Holiday Visitation

emme022 · August 2012

So my SO and his STB EX wife are in the process of finalizing their separation agreement. They met with their lawyers this week and there were a few issues they could not agree on so they will be meeting with a mediator on Wednesday but there was one issue that he and I both found strange so I wanted to see if this is more common and I just don't know about it.

For holidays BM is proposing that in even years she get Easter, Thanksgiving, Christmas Eve and Christmas Day as well as the days before and after these holidays and then in odd years he gets them. She is refusing to compromise on this but he feels this arrangment is unfair to both of them because it means they each go a year getting no holidays with their child. I thought it was more typical to alternate holidays and especially to try to work out alternating with Christmas Eve/day so they both atleast got part of one of those days each year. Anybody have any thoughts/opinions?

Oh also BM is claiming she has to have the schedule this way because her Aunt can only spend holidays with her family every other year so therefore she should have the baby for the years her aunt can attend, at mediation wouldn't the father's desire to share holidays each year trump the fact that someones aunt has a specific schedule or will that be taken as a good reason to do the every other year schedule? Sorry this is so long, thanks for any help.

NewMoM2Be10 · August 2012

Well my DH CO the holidays included were xmas and thanksgiving.. not all the others. but even then we had them for both every year but thats how my SS wanted to be. except for 2 years ago. now we have full custody and i personally think BM is just being a B!tch.. they both need to either go half a day and half a day or come to an agreement

Ginlyn0 · August 2012

I've actually never heard of orders going that way and I do think that would be sort of a crappy schedule. Both mine and DH's holidays go:

Parent 1: 6pm the night the children get out of school for Christmas through the 26th at noon

Parent 2: Thanksgiving week, Dec 26th at noon - 6pm the night before they go back to school, spring break wee

Then the next year it switches. Mom always gets kids Mother's Day weekend and Father always gets Father's Day weekend. Those are the only holidays listed so Easter, Halloween always default to the parent who has them on that day normally.

xmaryrickx · August 2012

That sounds like a good plan with no room for misinterpretation to me. On your off years you make special "holiday" plans on other days. It's better than splitting holidays-I get Christmas morning you get Christmas night. And way easier to keep track of then I get even Christmas odd easter even thanksgiving etc.

wwnbw · August 2012

gin9874:

I've actually never heard of orders going that way and I do think that would be sort of a crappy schedule. Both mine and DH's holidays go:

Parent 1: 6pm the night the children get out of school for Christmas through the 26th at noon

Parent 2: Thanksgiving week, Dec 26th at noon - 6pm the night before they go back to school, spring break wee

Then the next year it switches. Mom always gets kids Mother's Day weekend and Father always gets Father's Day weekend. Those are the only holidays listed so Easter, Halloween always default to the parent who has them on that day normally.

This is the way it is in both CO's we have for my SK's but it the 28th at noon not the 26th.

emme022 · August 2012

Part of the problem also is that SO is afraid, given how she has acted already since they have been separated, she will still try to get him to let her see the baby on Christmas, Thanksgiving etc and then he will be the "bad" person if he says no, even though she would never let him see her on BM's years. Honestly Bm is kind of BSC( ex she has invented allergies, like to milk, that LO doesnt actually have and multiple dr's tests have proved she doesn't have, flipped out when she found out she would not get to examine SO's apartment and make sure it met to her standards/approve it and has tried to deny him custody constantly so the whole thing has been a battle). 3 months ago she wanted to alternate holidays, now she doesn't etc the whole thing is getting exhausting I just did not know if maybe this arrangement was more common or something. Thanks for the opinions/insights though it def helps.

Edited to add: LO is only 20 months at the moment so things like school do not apply yet, dunno if that changes things sometimes.

CurlyQ284 · August 2012

We get spring break (Easter) and Christmas on even years, Thanksgiving on odd years.

karatechrissy · August 2012

our CO alternates holidays and years. So even years she will get memorial day, labor day, thanksgiving and christmas eve. Even years we get New years day, 4th of July, christmas and new years eve. Then they alternate so odd years we switch (that isn't verbatum I probably missed holidays or mixed some up) but yea we always switch someone has christmas eve and the other christmas day. BUT the times are also outlined. All holidays are a standard 9-5PM except 4th of July is 2-10PM and christmas eve is 2-10. I think new years eve is also 2-10. Can't remember for certain. But after those times, custody is given back to the person who's normal time it is. So she gets mon-wed we have thurs-sat and we switch every other sunday. Lets say christmas falls on a Friday and that's our day, but it's her year for christmas. She gets him from 9-5 on Christmas then we will get him back. does that make sense?

jkacera15 · August 2012

i didn't get a good look at all responses but my DH is in the middle of setting a holiday schedule to put in papers (hopefully) with BM because the original CO never had one. Dumb move to agree to that!!!!

They have agreed to split holidays because they live in the same town and we have the kids just about as much during regular time as she does so its important to them that they are with both families. For Easter and Thanksgiving whoever will have them for that holiday will get them at 5 or 6pm the evening before and have them through 2pm that holiday then the other parent can get them and still have dinner with them. For Christmas one parent will have them Dec 23rd at 5 or 6pm through Dec 24th at i believe 5 or 6pm then they will go with the other parent for the overnight of Christmas Eve and Christmas morning and the next trade off again at 2 pm that afternoon. I hate how confusing it can all sound but once you figure something out it'll make things so much easier. I don't believe having them for every holiday the whole day every other year is fair to anyone either. You cant revolve around her aunt. Thats not fair to the children.

We've also included Halloween, new years eve/day, and the parents birthdays and the childrens birthdays now. Hope you guys are able to find something fair for everyone.

jkacera15 · August 2012

jkacera15:

i didn't get a good look at all responses but my DH is in the middle of setting a holiday schedule to put in papers (hopefully) with BM because the original CO never had one. Dumb move to agree to that!!!!

They have agreed to split holidays because they live in the same town and we have the kids just about as much during regular time as she does so its important to them that they are with both families. For Easter and Thanksgiving whoever will have them for that holiday will get them at 5 or 6pm the evening before and have them through 2pm that holiday then the other parent can get them and still have dinner with them. For Christmas one parent will have them Dec 23rd at 5 or 6pm through Dec 24th at i believe 5 or 6pm then they will go with the other parent for the overnight of Christmas Eve and Christmas morning and the next trade off again at 2 pm that afternoon. I hate how confusing it can all sound but once you figure something out it'll make things so much easier. I don't believe having them for every holiday the whole day every other year is fair to anyone either. You cant revolve around her aunt. Thats not fair to the children.

We've also included Halloween, new years eve/day, and the parents birthdays and the childrens birthdays now. Hope you guys are able to find something fair for everyone.

Mothers/Fathers day and the 4th of July are included also. We are lucky enough to live minutes away so thats why we can arrange the half days. Plus BM is a nurse so her schedule itsn't easy for anyone, including herself, to work around at times so convenience for everyone is what DH and I strive for.

emme022 · August 2012

jkacera15:

i didn't get a good look at all responses but my DH is in the middle of setting a holiday schedule to put in papers (hopefully) with BM because the original CO never had one. Dumb move to agree to that!!!!

They have agreed to split holidays because they live in the same town and we have the kids just about as much during regular time as she does so its important to them that they are with both families. For Easter and Thanksgiving whoever will have them for that holiday will get them at 5 or 6pm the evening before and have them through 2pm that holiday then the other parent can get them and still have dinner with them. For Christmas one parent will have them Dec 23rd at 5 or 6pm through Dec 24th at i believe 5 or 6pm then they will go with the other parent for the overnight of Christmas Eve and Christmas morning and the next trade off again at 2 pm that afternoon. I hate how confusing it can all sound but once you figure something out it'll make things so much easier. I don't believe having them for every holiday the whole day every other year is fair to anyone either. You cant revolve around her aunt. Thats not fair to the children.

We've also included Halloween, new years eve/day, and the parents birthdays and the childrens birthdays now. Hope you guys are able to find something fair for everyone.

The BM and my significant other live within 15-20 minutes of each other(depending on traffic) so that does, or atleast should, help some. But she is now coming up with things like well what if I want to go to NH on Christmas and stuff like that. Mothers day and Fathers day did get included with no issues and LO's b-day tends to fall during Thanksgiving week or on Thanksgiving and right now they are just going with who ever has her that day, has her bday. Also Bm and my SO have 50/50 custody so she spends equal time with them so in a year or 2 it would start to be hard for her not to spend holidays with people/not get to see her cousins etc.

FriskyPanda · August 2012

The way DH's CO is written they alternate holidays-one year one gets thanksgiving and Christmas eve while the other gets Christmas. In actuality what has happened is we get thanksgiving and Christmas every year and she gets Christmas every year.

I like it this way more-everyone knows what to expect, and each gets the holiday that they do the big family thing for.

emme022 · August 2012

FriskyPanda:

The way DH's CO is written they alternate holidays-one year one gets thanksgiving and Christmas eve while the other gets Christmas. In actuality what has happened is we get thanksgiving and Christmas every year and she gets Christmas every year.

I like it this way more-everyone knows what to expect, and each gets the holiday that they do the big family thing for.

Something like this would probably work great if BM was a little more willing to compromise etc but in her mind every holiday is a big event for her family, even Easter which she actually doesn't celebrate, and is more important than any event SO's family might have.

Also after reading some people's responses here I realized Halloween should prob be included in the agreement, since BM is not willing for them both to see LO that night, because if it falls on who evers day because of the custody schedule one person would get the next 3 years of Halloween and then the other person would which wouldn't be so great.

FutureMrsWittig · August 2012

Holidays are sticky. We also alternate holidays. BM gets SD for her birthday/spring break, Easter, Memorial Day weekend, Thanksgiving and Christmas Eve in odd years. We have her for Labor Day weekend, 4th of July, the day after Thanksgiving, and Christmas Day.

However, we do try to work with BM. So if it's our year to have SD for Easter, but BM wants to take her to church (and we aren't going to church until the evening) then we usually let her. Also DH and BM are supposed to split Halloween (someone gets her for the day and then they swap halfway thru trick-or-treat), but we usually try to get together and take SD with her siblings and BM the whole time (it's more fun for SD and we don't have to stop halfway thru to go meet--better for all the kids).

Don't be a doormat, but it's always good to work together when it's possible for both parties to be respectful of each other. Hopefully as time passes, and you and your SO show kindness and respect toward BM, she will do the same for you.

Littlejen22 · August 2012

xmaryrickx:
That sounds like a good plan with no room for misinterpretation to me. On your off years you make special "holiday" plans on other days. It's better than splitting holidaysI get Christmas morning you get Christmas night. And way easier to keep track of then I get even Christmas odd easter even thanksgiving etc.nbsp;

I agree with this,at least you know exactly when you will have them and you can make other plans. I personally would rather one parent have Thanksgiving and the other have Christmas and alternate Easter but what BM proposed can definitely work. And I really think the day before and after the holiday is best for the kid unless you literally live down the street. I hated that DH and BM would handoff SD on Christmas, I thought it was unfair to SD and if we ever wanted to go far on a Holliday we could not never an issue. But include wording on time for handoff and how it works if it is a school day such as 9:00am for nonschool day and directly after school or 5:00pm on school days...one day the kid will be in school.

Littlejen22 · August 2012

emcmac87:
Part of the problem also is that SO is afraid, given how she has acted already since they have been separated, she will still try to get him to let her see the baby on Christmas, Thanksgiving etc and then he will be the "bad" person if he says no, even though she would never let him see her on BM's years.nbsp; Honestly Bm is kind of BSC ex she has invented allergies, like to milk, that LO doesnt actually have and multiple dr's tests have proved she doesn't have, flipped out when she found out she would not get to examine SO's apartment and make sure it met to her standards/approve it and has tried to deny him custody constantly so the whole thing has been a battle.nbsp; 3 months ago she wanted to alternate holidays, now she doesn't etc the whole thing is getting exhausting I just did not know if maybe this arrangement was more common or something.nbsp; Thanks for the opinions/insights though it def helps.
Edited to add: LO is only 20 months at the moment so things like school do not apply yet, dunno if that changes things sometimes.

How long have you been together?

twister22 · August 2012

I would not be okay with having my DS for no holidays one year, even if it means I get all of them the next.

I would think requesting to have them alternate is not an issue. Who cares about BM's aunt. If aunt can only attend holiday's in even years, then ask BM which holiday is most important to her (i.e. Christmas) and give her that in the even years.

emme022 · August 2012

Littlejen22:
emcmac87:
Part of the problem also is that SO is afraid, given how she has acted already since they have been separated, she will still try to get him to let her see the baby on Christmas, Thanksgiving etc and then he will be the "bad" person if he says no, even though she would never let him see her on BM's years.nbsp; Honestly Bm is kind of BSC ex she has invented allergies, like to milk, that LO doesnt actually have and multiple dr's tests have proved she doesn't have, flipped out when she found out she would not get to examine SO's apartment and make sure it met to her standards/approve it and has tried to deny him custody constantly so the whole thing has been a battle.nbsp; 3 months ago she wanted to alternate holidays, now she doesn't etc the whole thing is getting exhausting I just did not know if maybe this arrangement was more common or something.nbsp; Thanks for the opinions/insights though it def helps. Edited to add: LO is only 20 months at the moment so things like school do not apply yet, dunno if that changes things sometimes.
How long have you been together?

We have only been together for 6 months and friend before that, I have just mostly been his sounding board for this stuff and let him read the responses here, I do not make any of the decisions or get involved at all in the CO things.

emme022 · August 2012

twister22:
I would not be okay with having my DS for no holidays one year, even if it means I get all of them the next.
I would think requesting to have them alternate is not an issue. Who cares about BM's aunt. If aunt can only attend holiday's in even years, then ask BM which holiday is most important to her (i.e. Christmas) and give her that in the even years.

This is a great suggestion and SO ended up proposing something like this, that she get Easter and Xmas eve/Xmas until 5 pm on the even years(the ones her aunt can come to) and then it alternate. Hopefully she will agree to it.

FutureMrsDrew73110 · August 2012

We had similar issues at first when the CO said we were to alternate these 13 holidays (way too many to begin with) with in a year and BM thought we were only alternating major holidays and felt she should have had Easter, Thanksgiving & Christmas all in 1 year. We went back to court and this is how it's now worded:

In Odd years- The mother has
4th of July (10am on the 4th-11am on the 5th)
Thanksgiving (10am-9pm)
Christmas Day (10:30pm on the 24th-10:30pm on the 25th)

The father has:
Easter (8:30 the night before-9:30pm on Easter Sunday)
Christmas Eve (10am on the 24th-10:30pm on the 24th)
New Years Eve (10am on the 31st-11am Jan 1)

This schedule reverses in Even years.

The times were crucial for us to have included because BM would always give us problems (say that we were late bringing the kids home b/c she wasn't home yet or if we were at her house on time and she wasn't there she would argue that the drop off was later than that)

ballmom · August 2012

piffle42:
I'm assuming they are both local. The state that holds our jurisdiction breaks it down for local parents like this:
                      In years ending with an even number, the non-custodial parent shall exercise the following parenting time:

[1]    New Year's Eve and New Year's Day. (The date of the new year will determine odd or even year). From December 30th at 7:00 P.M. to 7:00 P.M. of the evening before school resumes.

[2]    Memorial Day. From Friday at 6:00 P.M. until Monday at 7:00 P.M.

[3]    Labor Day. From Friday at 6:00 P.M. until Monday at 7:00 P.M.

[4]    Thanksgiving. From 6:00 P.M. on Wednesday until 7:00 P.M. on Sunday.

In years ending with an odd number, the non-custodial parent shall exercise the following parenting time:

[1]    Spring Break. From Friday at 6:00 P.M. through Sunday of the following weekend at 7:00 P.M.

[2]    Easter. From Friday at 6:00 P.M. until Sunday at 7:00 P.M.

[3]    Fourth of July. From 6:00 P.M. on July 3rd until 10:00 A.M. on July 5th.

[4]    Halloween. On Halloween evening from 6:00 P.M. until 9:00 P.M. or at such time as coincides with the scheduled time for trick or treating in the community where the non-custodial parent resides.
It also specifically stipulates birthdays of both parents and child and Mother's and Father's Day. It basically splits all the holidays evenly each year. It is extremely unfair for one parent to get all the holidays and then the other parent gets all the other holidays. As nice as it is for the DC to spend time with other family members, the only ones that would taken into consideration are the parents. DS's BF has tried to make a stink about this before and the judge told him that the time he gets is about spending time with his DS first and foremost, not about what the rest of his family is doing. They're not ordering bonding time for grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc. It's for the parent!
Since we deal with distance BF is entitled to the week of Thanksgiving, whatever week of Xmas break Christmas doesn't fall on (since he always has the opportunity to take Thanksgiving I always get Xmas), alternating spring break, and up to 5 weeks in the summer.
Some people that are local will split the day of certain holidays, but I think that would be much harder on the child to be ripped out of family activities to go see the other parent than to just alternate years.

We must be in the same state because that is our exact wording too. You do know that there has been a change with the New Year's holiday now, don't you? That has been erased as an exchange date and which ever parent has the second part of Christmas break will have the NY holiday.

I will say that SO and BM try to give the other parent time on Thanksgiving so the skids (both teenagers) can be with both sets of family that day.

sabrina69barnes · August 2012

Our CO is set up so there is holiday group "A" and "B". DH gest A on even years and BM on odd. One group gets the kids the first half of Christmas break until the 26th. The other group gets the 26th until school starts again.

All of the other holidays we get the kids every other year with the exception of Halloween. BM lives two hours away a Halloween is usually on a school night. We only get them for Halloween when it isn't a school night. We usually miss out but it I was my suggestion. It seemed the most fair to the kids.

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