tell me about sperm DNA frag test

rockpaperlove · August 2012

DH and I have a consult with Schoolcraft at CCRM late August. As I prepare our questions for the consult, DH and I are talking more about what could be stopping us from getting a solid BFP after three IVF cycles down the drain.

Up until now, we figured it was me since I don't produce many eggs and my fert reports are on the low side. Now, we are wondering about the DNA of DH's sperm...there is definitely a history of infertility on his side of the family, but all we know is...so and so couldn't have kids. Not much help there.

We had the typical workup on DH's sperm before our first IVF cycle and the one thing that came back on the low side was the morphology. Can you tell me what you know about a sperm DNA frag test? Would this test tell us more about the genetics of DH's sperm?

Hopefully I don't sound like a total moron on the topic on sperm and frag testing. This is completely new territory for me.

Embarrassed

*Additionally: if you have thoughts to share about CCRM and/or Schoolcraft specifically...please share.

[Poll]

Edwina.McDunnough · August 2012

https://www.scsadiagnostics.com/faqs

You don't need to have your RE order it, but it's better for the sample to be washed etc. so you know that you're sending them something they can use. The site has sample reports, how the test is performed, fees, etc. Good luck.

rockpaperlove · August 2012

Thanks E. The site is extremely helpful.

Do you suggest I wait to talk to CCRM before ordering the test?

reb259 · August 2012

My H is going to see a uro who specializes in reproduction in August and will have the test done. Good luck!!

Edwina.McDunnough · August 2012

It can't hurt to get their opinion/blessing, unless your current RE will order it for you and do the wash. CCRM may want to use a different facility, and it's really best to discuss the results with someone who is behind the test should there be any concerns. FWIW since we've done the test every specialist we've spoken to ask if we've done it, so I think it's gaining more credibility despite the controversial nature of the results.

You should also see if V responds, I think she did extra testing beyond what we did, but I'm not familiar with the details. There are some posts in the FAQ too. It's crazy that the shipping is half the cost, right?

Reb, wishing you and your hubs good luck, just a few weeks away!

reb259 · August 2012

Edwina.McDunnough:

It can't hurt to get their opinion/blessing, unless your current RE will order it for you and do the wash. CCRM may want to use a different facility, and it's really best to discuss the results with someone who is behind the test should there be any concerns. FWIW since we've done the test every specialist we've spoken to ask if we've done it, so I think it's gaining more credibility despite the controversial nature of the results.

You should also see if V responds, I think she did extra testing beyond what we did, but I'm not familiar with the details. There are some posts in the FAQ too. It's crazy that the shipping is half the cost, right?

Reb, wishing you and your hubs good luck, just a few weeks away!

Thanks E!

Also there is a post over on IVF from about a week ago that discusses this...might be helpful to search for it.

reb259 · August 2012

reb259:
Edwina.McDunnough:

It can't hurt to get their opinion/blessing, unless your current RE will order it for you and do the wash. CCRM may want to use a different facility, and it's really best to discuss the results with someone who is behind the test should there be any concerns. FWIW since we've done the test every specialist we've spoken to ask if we've done it, so I think it's gaining more credibility despite the controversial nature of the results.

You should also see if V responds, I think she did extra testing beyond what we did, but I'm not familiar with the details. There are some posts in the FAQ too. It's crazy that the shipping is half the cost, right?

Reb, wishing you and your hubs good luck, just a few weeks away!

Thanks E!

Also there is a post over on IVF from about a week ago that discusses this...might be helpful to search for it.

OMG...we are on the IVF board! Indifferent Sorry it has already been a very long week!

vanessagorc · August 2012

I'm the biggest pusher of this test. U need to know what ur dealing with. U wouldt make a decision based solely on the results of this test...but Ud use it along w embryo quality to make some decisions.

Edwina.McDunnough · August 2012

reb259:

OMG...we are on the IVF board! Sorry it has already been a very long week!

a super long week. we all need a massage and a glass of wine.

Gregermis · August 2012

Edwina.McDunnough:

https://www.scsadiagnostics.com/faqs

You don't need to have your RE order it, but it's better for the sample to be washed etc. so you know that you're sending them something they can use. The site has sample reports, how the test is performed, fees, etc. Good luck.

I e-mailed the place above about this and they said they just ran the test on all sperm. Sounded like a waste or time since we're already doing IVF+ICSI. But if they run the test on the washed sample they would be selecting ICSI sperm from, this sounds MUUUUCH more useful. Thanks edwina!

V - care to elaborate a little more on your experience?

KarlsSweetie05 · August 2012

** Lurker ** Ticker Warning **

My DH had the test done a few years ago when you had to have a dr order the test. So did 2 other husbands of my IF friends. All 3 hubbies were graded "ok to great" for lack of more specific terminology which eludes me at this point. All of us have gone on to have children - 2 of the hubbies later fathered children using donor egg.

The tests are not considered "valid" by some dr. and others give it more credit. None of our RE's at the time supported the test, but we all did it anyway. After many rounds of IUI, IVF, and losses, the test was something all of us thought we should have done to see if there was a male factor that was being overlooked. We were all glad to have the test performed and did not feel it was a waste of time or money.

After the results came back. we were all kind of confused by the reports. So each one of us called (at different times) and spoke directly to the dr who performs the test to ask more detailed questions about the results. It was a very interesting conversation and helped us learn more at that time. The whole staff was super good to work with on all parts (shipping, billing, testing).

* Money Saving Option" ... don't know if this is still available... but to cut down on costs... 2 of our hubbies did the test on consecutive days and we used 1 container for shipping. We were able to split the cost of shipping which was a big money saver ** Its really not as weird as it sounds, I swear! Let me explain.

The shipping container holds 8 vials of sperm (if I remember correctly). We worked with the lab ahead of time to explain what we were doing and to have the lab send 2 separate test kits to each house ahead of time. The container was then shipped to House #1 and arrived in the afternoon. Hubby #1 gave his sample after work and sample was properly labeled and placed in container. Wife #1 drove to my house next morning to drop off container before work. My DH (Hubby # 2) gave his sample in the morning before he went to work and we labeled his vial and placed it in the container. I called for FEDEX to pick up the container that afternoon.

There is a short turnaround time / window on getting the container back to South Dakota for testing. So you have to be "on the ball" so to speak to get the sample and get the container shipped back within 24-48 hours.

Oh, none of us had hubby's sperm washed. We didn't know it was an option back then.

rockpaperlove · August 2012

All of the responses are very informative...and especially helpful.

What I gather is this: we should (without a doubt) have the test done. Like V said, it is not the end-all-be-all, but it may give us a few more answers and answers are priceless. Yes, like E said, it may be pricey (shipping and all), but to have another piece to this puzzle in hand is worth it. I will wait to talk about this test during my consult with CCRM in case they have a lab they recommend. Did I miss anything?

reb259 · August 2012

rockpaperlove:

All of the responses are very informative...and especially helpful.

What I gather is this: we should (without a doubt) have the test done. Like V said, it is not the end-all-be-all, but it may give us a few more answers and answers are priceless. Yes, like E said, it may be pricey (shipping and all), but to have another piece to this puzzle in hand is worth it. I will wait to talk about this test during my consult with CCRM in case they have a lab they recommend. Did I miss anything?

I have never had a consult with C.CRM but I have heard that he will push that issues with be with the egg not sperm and will push DE...

eastwesteast78 · August 2012

I am starting stims for ivf at CCRM this week. We went for our one day work up in May and my husband had a sperm analysis. I believe they do a DNA fragmentation test at that point. I can check on my husband's results when he gets home later (I don't have his login) to see if they did this. If they are going to do it then anyways I would wait because CCRM makes you do all of the tests there, even if you've just had it done.

I know that CCRM advocates having the e-tegrity test done for people with multiple failed IVFs. It is a test of the lining to see if an embryo can implant. I would bring it up but I would be surprised if he didn't want you to have it done, unless he thinks that it could be a problem with the embryos, in which case he'll say that his lab will make the difference

rockpaperlove · August 2012

reb259:
rockpaperlove:

All of the responses are very informative...and especially helpful.

What I gather is this: we should (without a doubt) have the test done. Like V said, it is not the end-all-be-all, but it may give us a few more answers and answers are priceless. Yes, like E said, it may be pricey (shipping and all), but to have another piece to this puzzle in hand is worth it. I will wait to talk about this test during my consult with CCRM in case they have a lab they recommend. Did I miss anything?

I have never had a consult with C.CRM but I have heard that he will push that issues with be with the egg not sperm and will push DE...

Thank you for the heads up on the possible DE speech. The more prepared I am for this consult...the better. Good luck to you and your DH with the uro!

Edwina.McDunnough · August 2012

rockpaperlove:
All of the responses are very informative...and especially helpful.
What I gather is this: we should (without a doubt) have the test done. Like V said, it is not the end-all-be-all, but it may give us a few more answers and answers are priceless. Yes, like E said, it may be pricey (shipping and all), but to have another piece to this puzzle in hand is worth it. I will wait to talk about this test during my consult with CCRM in case they have a lab they recommend. Did I miss anything?

I know every bit hurts but it's less than $400 including the shipping ($150), and not outrageously expensive relative to the information or reassurance it provides. For comparison, an RPL panel can cost several thousands of dollars. Ouch!

https://www.scsadiagnostics.com/fees

Also, several posts are in the FAQ about the EFT or e-tegrity test.

Mrs.McIrish · August 2012

Edwina.McDunnough:
reb259:

OMG...we are on the IVF board! Sorry it has already been a very long week!

a super long week. we all need a massage and a glass of wine.

I'm in!

No help to OP. Sorry....

reb259 · August 2012

Mrs.McIrish:
Edwina.McDunnough:
reb259:

OMG...we are on the IVF board! Sorry it has already been a very long week!

a super long week. we all need a massage and a glass of wine.

I'm in!

No help to OP. Sorry....

We seriously need an infertile girls weekend!!

reb259 · August 2012

Mrs.McIrish:
Edwina.McDunnough:
reb259:

OMG...we are on the IVF board! Sorry it has already been a very long week!

a super long week. we all need a massage and a glass of wine.

I'm in!

No help to OP. Sorry....

We seriously need an infertile girls weekend!!

reb259 · August 2012

Mrs.McIrish:
Edwina.McDunnough:
reb259:

OMG...we are on the IVF board! Sorry it has already been a very long week!

a super long week. we all need a massage and a glass of wine.

I'm in!

No help to OP. Sorry....

We seriously need an infertile girls weekend!!

rockpaperlove · August 2012

Edwina.McDunnough:
rockpaperlove:
All of the responses are very informative...and especially helpful.
What I gather is this: we should (without a doubt) have the test done. Like V said, it is not the end-all-be-all, but it may give us a few more answers and answers are priceless. Yes, like E said, it may be pricey (shipping and all), but to have another piece to this puzzle in hand is worth it. I will wait to talk about this test during my consult with CCRM in case they have a lab they recommend. Did I miss anything?
I know every bit counts but it's less than $400 including the shipping ($150), and not outrageously expensive relative to the information or reassurance it provides. For comparison, an RPL panel can cost several thousands of dollars. Ouch!
https://www.scsadiagnostics.com/fees
Also, several posts are in the FAQ about the EFT or e-tegrity test.

I completely agree...can't put a price on reassuring information. I had no idea how much this sort of testing would cost, but when it comes right down to it...we will pay whatever the cost. We just want answers.

Thank you for reminding me about the immense amount of info on the FAQ page. So helpful. I have added quite a bit to my existing list of questions for my second opinion after revisiting the FAQ page. Thanks again!

::raising my glass of wine in appreciation::

blueberries8 · August 2012

We are also considering doing the DNA frag test but I have a question - if we are doing IVF/ICSI anyway, could the results really be a game changer in any way? In deciding what further tests to pursue, I guess that is the one big q for us when considering any test - will the results change our treatment plan?

NMscubagirl · August 2012

We never had enough sperm to do that test, but it is a standard test at my REs office. I think because we ended up doing PGD, it didn't really matter for us. I would have done it if we had enough sperm though.

As for Dr. Schoo.lcraft, I was totally underwhelmed by him. He seemed very awkward and I just didn't get a lot from my consult with him. I think if you know in advance that he is weird that might help. I hope you have a great consult!!

rockpaperlove · August 2012

NMscubagirl:
We never had enough sperm to do that test, but it is a standard test at my REs office. I think because we ended up doing PGD, it didn't really matter for us. I would have done it if we had enough sperm though.
As for Dr. Schoo.lcraft, I was totally underwhelmed by him. He seemed very awkward and I just didn't get a lot from my consult with him. I think if you know in advance that he is weird that might help. I hope you have a great consult!!

Do you mind me asking who you went with, if not CCRM? I have heard Schoolcraft is "unique" and weird like you mentioned. My local RE is delightful, but I'm not pregnant. If I go with Schoolcraft, I am basing the decision solely on ability. I just hope I don't get too thrown off during our consult where I have to start at square one. I am putting my third fresh cycle on hold as I wait for this consult so I am putting a lot of faith into it. Thank you for the feedback. I'll update post consult!

NMscubagirl · August 2012

rockpaperlove:
NMscubagirl:
We never had enough sperm to do that test, but it is a standard test at my REs office. I think because we ended up doing PGD, it didn't really matter for us. I would have done it if we had enough sperm though.
As for Dr. Schoo.lcraft, I was totally underwhelmed by him. He seemed very awkward and I just didn't get a lot from my consult with him. I think if you know in advance that he is weird that might help. I hope you have a great consult!!
Do you mind me asking who you went with, if not CCRM? I have heard Schoolcraft is "unique" and weird like you mentioned. My local RE is delightful, but I'm not pregnant. If I go with Schoolcraft, I am basing the decision solely on ability. I just hope I don't get too thrown off during our consult where I have to start at square one. I am putting my third fresh cycle on hold as I wait for this consult so I am putting a lot of faith into it. Thank you for the feedback. I'll update post consult!

I ended up going with my local RE again. We wanted to go with another clinic mostly because we thought my RE does not do vitrification of embryos. CCRM was the best and closest so that was what we were thinking about. When my RE found out we had our medical records sent to CCRM, we talked a lot about the issues. He said that with CGH/PGD they do in fact do vitrification for the embryos. Apparently they just don't have room in that specific freezer for all the embryos, so they save it for the PGD ones. So that was a big reason we stayed with our RE. Also, he offered us 50% off our cycle unless we get a BFP, then we pay the remainder. Also it would have been difficult to travel during our cycle as I had a new job with very little time off accrued at that point. So that is the long winded discussion as to why we went with our current RE instead of CCRM. I am thinking if we end up doing this again, we might have the CCRM talk again. GL doll

Edwina.McDunnough · August 2012

blueberries8:
...if we are doing IVF/ICSI anyway, could the results really be a game changer in any way?

It would indicate IVF (if you're doing IUIs), and ICSI (if you're not), so if you're doing both and having good embryos, especially good blasts, and/or not open to or considering DS, then it's probably not indicated. Just my non-medical opinion. We wanted peace of mind moving forward with IVF4 or DE that we weren't overlooking something beyond my poor egg quality, especially when you're spending tens of thousands of dollars to cycle and are in the need-to-know-more frame of mind.

The controversial part is the suggestion for DS and that's a personal decision. It's along the lines of poor EQ and DOR: is the potential for doing a lot of IVFs something that you would want to (or are able to) pursue. The test could indicate or even just suggest DS when perseverance or luck could prove otherwise; the grey area between dismal and workable results is up to interpretation and personal priorities.

Mitzi Bishi · August 2012

Thanks for this. We are going to ask about it at our WTF tomorrow, although I get the feeling there will be no new news or testing... this place grates on me more and more.

mtlaurel · August 2012

blueberries8:
We are also considering doing the DNA frag test but I have a question - if we are doing IVF/ICSI anyway, could the results really be a game changer in any way? In deciding what further tests to pursue, I guess that is the one big q for us when considering any test - will the results change our treatment plan?

We've only ever done IVF w/ ICSI, but just had the test done anyway because while we've had good fertilization rates, we have never made it to blast for transfer. We ordered it on our own, but intend to discuss the "poor to fair" results with our RE today and ask about splitting between DH's and donor sperm for our next cycle, as we can only afford one more DE cycle.

Km672 · August 2012

Hi everyone,

Not sure if anyone remembers me; I underwent my 4th failed Ivf last February. This board was extremely supportive and I thank you all.

We were completely devastated and our RE really didn't have any answers for us. I have DOR and my husband has poor morphology and motility. We were originally persuing donor eggs, but my husband's urologist suggested we have the fragmentation testing done to give more insight. She didn't recommend donor eggs if the results were not favorable. Unfortunately, my husband's results were 83% fragmented. We were so disappointed. Although this was tough to take and our RE says he doesn't give the test much credit, we knew we could not go through a donor egg cycle knowing this. Not sure if this is helpful at all, but I wanted to share our experience. Good luck!!

Want a personalized experience?

tell me about sperm DNA frag test

Re: tell me about sperm DNA frag test

Choose Another Board

Search Boards