Having a baby in NY just got interesting...

triagain2 · July 2012

I'm a lactation consultant and do believe that breastfeeding is best, but I also have worked with many many women and babies and know that breastfeeding doesn't work for everyone for a variety of reasons. As a labor/postpartum nurse I've watched women work their butts off to successfully breastfeed and still fail. This is bullying in my opinion.

Education is important but to verbally reprimand (er- educate) a postpartum woman who requests formula for her newborn is just ridiculous. Thankfully I know enough nurses to know that this will never actually happen on the floors. They can write rules all day long, rules were meant to be broken.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/07/29/nyc-mayor-wants-hospitals-to-lock-up-baby-formula-to-encourage-breast-feeding/?intcmp=obinsite

Rhomonk · July 2012

This is my biggest problem.

From the article;

With each bottle a mother requests and receives, she?ll also get a talking-to. Staffers will explain why she should offer the breast instead.

Trust me, the "talking to" they would give me wouldn't compare to the talking to I would give them about my right to choose.

merricksmom · July 2012

Ha I live in NY too and found this a bit ridiculous. It's not as though childbirth itself isn't traumatic enough, lets stress out new mothers by denying them formula like it's a class A drug. I believe if this rule was passed, you could only get formula in hospital if it was medically necessary.

HeiferBaby · July 2012

Where is the problem? Lots of hospitals dont give out formula you have to bring your own. If I had formula in my room or home chances are I would have given up nursing and supplemented formula beacuse I was so tired and nursing is not easy. But I didnt tempt myself and my dd and I made it 17 months!

Rhomonk · July 2012

HeiferBaby:
Where is the problem? Lots of hospitals dont give out formula you have to bring your own. If I had formula in my room or home chances are I would have given up nursing and supplemented formula beacuse I was so tired and nursing is not easy. But I didnt tempt myself and my dd and I made it 17 months!

Because not everyone mother chooses, or can breastfeed.

AprilAngie · July 2012

Rhomonk:
This is my biggest problem.

From the article;

With each bottle a mother requests and receives, she?ll also get a talking-to. Staffers will explain why she should offer the breast instead.
Trust me, the "talking to" they would give me wouldn't compare to the talking to I would give them about my right to choose.

I am pro breastfeeding- however I strongly believe mothers should have choices- why would this ever pass? Isnt it in the constitution- ? FREEDOM?

babyike · July 2012

This is starting to happen in hospitals in Southeast Texas too. The brand new hospital I'm having this LO at has applied for the extremely hard to attain "baby-centered" certification status (also referred to as "baby-friendly"). Part of this includes the hospital not receiving any formula donations/gift sets for their patients. So if formula is needed/requested, it must be added to the hospital bill and charged to the patient. It may/may not be covered by insurance companies based on the company's policy.

I do not however think that mom's need to be "talked to" about their decision to BF or FF. It's their baby, and therefore their decision. Period.

I think not providing free forumla is an okay policy to have in place, and since I'm going to EBF I'm not offended by it at all. BUT, I also have friends that had difficulties/inability to breastfeed, so I do think it sucks for them. But then I also remind myself that moms who breastfeed don't get free BFing supplies (nipple shields, lanolin, pumps, pump parts, breast pads, etc are all added to the hospital bill) from the hospital to take home, so it seems fair to not offer free formula supplies to take home either... Nothing against moms who FF at all. JMHO.

hooslisa · July 2012

obviously, it doesn't work for everyone. it sounds to me like the people it doesn't work for aren't the target of this.

i guess i'll have the UO on a monday....

tax the hell out of soda and lock up the forumula, i say. i love bloomberg. i wish more politicians were like him.

Cheerilee · July 2012

HeiferBaby:
Where is the problem? Lots of hospitals dont give out formula you have to bring your own. If I had formula in my room or home chances are I would have given up nursing and supplemented formula beacuse I was so tired and nursing is not easy. But I didnt tempt myself and my dd and I made it 17 months!

Not all women can nurse for various reasons... For some it's choice, for others it's medical and it's THEIR right to choose what is best for their family - not the government's.

ashleigha894 · July 2012

This is horrible, I hope that no nurses follow through with these "talking-tos" moms today know that breast feeding is best but not everyone can do it. I would be heartbroken enough already if I couldn't breastfeed and then to get a lecture for it? I would start off my whole experience as a mom feeling like a failure.

I am a little bit surprised they don't keep formula locked up already though, back home in California most places lock it up so it doesn't get stolen. Formula theft is a big problem back there.

HeiferBaby · July 2012

Rhomonk:

This is my biggest problem.

From the article;

With each bottle a mother requests and receives, she?ll also get a talking-to. Staffers will explain why she should offer the breast instead.
Trust me, the "talking to" they would give me wouldn't compare to the talking to I would give them about my right to choose.

Yes I don't like the idea of new moms being scolded, but that wasnt a direct quote that was written by the author, the reality of the talking-to may actually be encouragment and support. You cant believe 100% of the stuff you read.

Rhomonk · July 2012

LucyD1029:
Rhomonk:

HeiferBaby:
Where is the problem? Lots of hospitals dont give out formula you have to bring your own. If I had formula in my room or home chances are I would have given up nursing and supplemented formula beacuse I was so tired and nursing is not easy. But I didnt tempt myself and my dd and I made it 17 months!

Because not everyone mother chooses, or can breastfeed.

But where does it say they're going to deny women formula?

Sorry, I forgot to add. It's not the denying. It's the "talking to" part. Why should a woman get a lecture about choosing to FF their baby? I have no problem if you want to stop the free formula give aways, and I think hospitals have the right to charge. However, I think it's wrong to lecture a woman every time she request formula to feed her newborn in the hospital.

hooslisa · July 2012

HeiferBaby:
Rhomonk:

This is my biggest problem.

From the article;

With each bottle a mother requests and receives, she?ll also get a talking-to. Staffers will explain why she should offer the breast instead.
Trust me, the "talking to" they would give me wouldn't compare to the talking to I would give them about my right to choose.

Yes I don't like the idea of new moms being scolded, but that wasnt a direct quote that was written by the author, the reality of the talking-to may actually be encouragment and support. You cant believe 100% of the stuff you read.

Yes

HeiferBaby · July 2012

Of course its your choice where did I say it wasnt??? No one is forcing you to breastfeed.

triagain2 · July 2012

There is a major difference between a "baby friendly hospital" and this NY policy. I support most of the baby friendly initiative except not giving the free giftbags. I chose not to take the gift bag but there are many women who can use the free formula. The baby friendly initiative is actually really benefical to all patients. It will encourage c-section patients to beable to "recover" with their babies, which is not very common in many places. Discourages the use of nurseries (some women leave their babies for the first 6 hours after birth because of outdated policies where the baby is bathed in another room from mom. This is atrocious in my opinion.

The formla companies give the hospitals the formula, they do not pay for it. In fact, we had a rule at one hospital to switch what brand we dispensed every month to be "fair" to both brands (Carnation/Gerber doesn't participate because they are free with WIC). So I'm not aware of hospitals that don't give away free formula.

That said, lack of education is a major reason many women don't successfully breastfeed, but its not the only reason. Full time work in unsupportive environments are a major reason and I'm not going to bully a mom who is trying her best to support her family. Formula is not the devil.

ShelbehhRawrr · July 2012

Rhomonk:
This is my biggest problem.

From the article;

With each bottle a mother requests and receives, she?ll also get a talking-to. Staffers will explain why she should offer the breast instead.
Trust me, the "talking to" they would give me wouldn't compare to the talking to I would give them about my right to choose.

I chose BF, but I agree, If I was given a 'talking to' I would freak out!

blingbean · July 2012

I actually agree with the sentiment of the initiative. Having a child is also a choice, and if someone chooses to have a child that choice should be complicit with the decision to *try* to do what's best for the child. There are a host of reasons why a mother CAN'T breastfeed and for those women there should be plenty of support. However, absent a medical reason I don't think it's ok to just choose not to try. It's not like they are going to deny women formula altogether, but I think a woman who just *chooses* to formula feed without bf-ing does need a talking a to.... Of course, if she gets a talking to when there is already an issue (HIV, drugs, supply, pain, etc) that's a different matter entirely, but that doesn't appear to be what's being implied here.

babyike · July 2012

triagain2:
There is a major difference between a "baby friendly hospital" and this NY policy. I support most of the baby friendly initiative except not giving the free giftbags. I chose not to take the gift bag but there are many women who can use the free formula. The baby friendly initiative is actually really benefical to all patients. It will encourage c-section patients to beable to "recover" with their babies, which is not very common in many places. Discourages the use of nurseries (some women leave their babies for the first 6 hours after birth because of outdated policies where the baby is bathed in another room from mom. This is atrocious in my opinion.

The formla companies give the hospitals the formula, they do not pay for it. In fact, we had a rule at one hospital to switch what brand we dispensed every month to be "fair" to both brands (Carnation/Gerber doesn't participate because they are free with WIC). So I'm not aware of hospitals that don't give away free formula.

That said, lack of education is a major reason many women don't successfully breastfeed, but its not the only reason. Full time work in unsupportive environments are a major reason and I'm not going to bully a mom who is trying her best to support her family. Formula is not the devil.

I agree with all of the bolded parts. Yes it's very different, just letting you know that other states/areas are either starting to lean this direction or already have in regards to formula being dispensed in the hospital.

The "scolding" or "educating" moms that choose to FF I do not agree with (as I said in my reply). But just as moms could really use those formula gift packs, there are moms that could also benefit from free breastfeeding supplies to take home (but those are not offered).

And there are PLENTY of hospitals that do not provide free formula for patients (no snark, just fact). It can be added to their bill (up to the hospital), regardless of whether or not the hospital actually pays for it. The hospitals' that receive the "baby friendly" status are just not allowed to receive/dispense the gift packs as part of promoting "breast is best".

And Yes to your last paragraph. I completely agree with you!

Daniellekrista · July 2012

I feel that Bloomberg should help make pumps available for cheaper and have state maternity leave coverage to encourage breast-feeding. Positive reinforcement.

ks3pink · July 2012

blingbean:
I actually agree with the sentiment of the initiative. Having a child is also a choice, and if someone chooses to have a child that choice should be complicit with the decision to *try* to do what's best for the child. There are a host of reasons why a mother CAN'T breastfeed and for those women there should be plenty of support. However, absent a medical reason I don't think it's ok to just choose not to try. It's not like they are going to deny women formula altogether, but I think a woman who just *chooses* to formula feed without bf-ing does need a talking a to.... Of course, if she gets a talking to when there is already an issue (HIV, drugs, supply, pain, etc) that's a different matter entirely, but that doesn't appear to be what's being implied here.

I completely disagree with this. It is my right to choose. I have no desire to bf, I have given up my body for 9 months and I would like it back. I also have meds that I need to take the are not bf friendly but even if I didn't I wouldn't bf. None of the women in my family have ever bf. We all turned out just fine. I will not trash you for public bf (which I find extremely rude) as long as you don't trash me for ff. Everyone is different and has their reasons. I just told DH today I was glad I lived in an area where ff was widely accepted, no one batted an eye when I had DD and if they do this time they will catch hell from me.

kokokat · July 2012

While I don't think moms should be reprimanded for making a decision to FF, I can see the benefit of having an LC or nurse talk to new moms to let them know about the benefits of BFing, and offer to help teach them to do it, if interested. I think some people go in to the experience not being as informed as they could be about the benefits, and perhaps might make a different decision if education/support was provided. That said, I don't see why hospitals should be expected to dispense formula to new parents. They don't work for the formula companies, and shouldn't feel like they need to do free marketing. But that's a different issue from reprimanding those who do choose to FF.

HeiferBaby · July 2012

ks3pink:

blingbean:
I actually agree with the sentiment of the initiative. Having a child is also a choice, and if someone chooses to have a child that choice should be complicit with the decision to *try* to do what's best for the child. There are a host of reasons why a mother CAN'T breastfeed and for those women there should be plenty of support. However, absent a medical reason I don't think it's ok to just choose not to try. It's not like they are going to deny women formula altogether, but I think a woman who just *chooses* to formula feed without bf-ing does need a talking a to.... Of course, if she gets a talking to when there is already an issue (HIV, drugs, supply, pain, etc) that's a different matter entirely, but that doesn't appear to be what's being implied here.

I completely disagree with this. It is my right to choose. I have no desire to bf, I have given up my body for 9 months and I would like it back. I also have meds that I need to take the are not bf friendly but even if I didn't I wouldn't bf. None of the women in my family have ever bf. We all turned out just fine. I will not trash you for public bf (which I find extremely rude) as long as you don't trash me for ff. Everyone is different and has their reasons. I just told DH today I was glad I lived in an area where ff was widely accepted, no one batted an eye when I had DD and if they do this time they will catch hell from me.

I think views like this are why the initiative is being put in place. I totally understand being on meds that are not BF friendly but I dont understand not being open to the idea of something that is great for your children.

And if you dont like looking at my boobs while im nursing in public, dont freaking look! Im not forcing you.

I would like to put an initative in place that once ks3pink comments on a post the post should be closed.

ks3pink · July 2012

HeiferBaby:
ks3pink:

blingbean:
I actually agree with the sentiment of the initiative. Having a child is also a choice, and if someone chooses to have a child that choice should be complicit with the decision to *try* to do what's best for the child. There are a host of reasons why a mother CAN'T breastfeed and for those women there should be plenty of support. However, absent a medical reason I don't think it's ok to just choose not to try. It's not like they are going to deny women formula altogether, but I think a woman who just *chooses* to formula feed without bf-ing does need a talking a to.... Of course, if she gets a talking to when there is already an issue (HIV, drugs, supply, pain, etc) that's a different matter entirely, but that doesn't appear to be what's being implied here.
I completely disagree with this. It is my right to choose. I have no desire to bf, I have given up my body for 9 months and I would like it back. I also have meds that I need to take the are not bf friendly but even if I didn't I wouldn't bf. None of the women in my family have ever bf. We all turned out just fine. I will not trash you for public bf (which I find extremely rude) as long as you don't trash me for ff. Everyone is different and has their reasons. I just told DH today I was glad I lived in an area where ff was widely accepted, no one batted an eye when I had DD and if they do this time they will catch hell from me.
I think views like this are why the initiative is being put in place. I totally understand being on meds that are not BF friendly but I dont understand not being open to the idea of something that is great for your children.
And if you dont like looking at my boobs while im nursing in public, dont freaking look! Im not forcing you.
I would like to put an initative in place that once ks3pink comments on a post the post should be closed.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. All I am saying is those who bf should not look down on those who don't.

And if you don't like my comments then you can click the block button. Just saying.

KacieLeigh · July 2012

ks3pink:
blingbean:
I actually agree with the sentiment of the initiative. Having a child is also a choice, and if someone chooses to have a child that choice should be complicit with the decision to *try* to do what's best for the child. There are a host of reasons why a mother CAN'T breastfeed and for those women there should be plenty of support. However, absent a medical reason I don't think it's ok to just choose not to try. It's not like they are going to deny women formula altogether, but I think a woman who just *chooses* to formula feed without bf-ing does need a talking a to.... Of course, if she gets a talking to when there is already an issue (HIV, drugs, supply, pain, etc) that's a different matter entirely, but that doesn't appear to be what's being implied here.
I completely disagree with this. It is my right to choose. I have no desire to bf, I have given up my body for 9 months and I would like it back. I also have meds that I need to take the are not bf friendly but even if I didn't I wouldn't bf. None of the women in my family have ever bf. We all turned out just fine. I will not trash you for public bf (which I find extremely rude) as long as you don't trash me for ff. Everyone is different and has their reasons. I just told DH today I was glad I lived in an area where ff was widely accepted, no one batted an eye when I had DD and if they do this time they will catch hell from me.

That's a ridiculously ignorant and uneducated statement. How is it extremely rude for me to feed my child in public with my breast? If it's not 'extremely rude' for you to feed your child with a bottle then it's not rude for me to feed my child with my breast.

Our society is all about "moving forward" and "not discriminating" until it comes to breastfeeding. You see more boob on a Victoria's Secret billboard - and its intended purpose IS to be sexual whereas feeding my child isn't. If you find that sexual in some way, I think you are the one with the problem.

Sorry - comments like that drive me crazy.

HeiferBaby · July 2012

ks3pink:
HeiferBaby:
ks3pink:

blingbean:
I actually agree with the sentiment of the initiative. Having a child is also a choice, and if someone chooses to have a child that choice should be complicit with the decision to *try* to do what's best for the child. There are a host of reasons why a mother CAN'T breastfeed and for those women there should be plenty of support. However, absent a medical reason I don't think it's ok to just choose not to try. It's not like they are going to deny women formula altogether, but I think a woman who just *chooses* to formula feed without bf-ing does need a talking a to.... Of course, if she gets a talking to when there is already an issue (HIV, drugs, supply, pain, etc) that's a different matter entirely, but that doesn't appear to be what's being implied here.

I completely disagree with this. It is my right to choose. I have no desire to bf, I have given up my body for 9 months and I would like it back. I also have meds that I need to take the are not bf friendly but even if I didn't I wouldn't bf. None of the women in my family have ever bf. We all turned out just fine. I will not trash you for public bf (which I find extremely rude) as long as you don't trash me for ff. Everyone is different and has their reasons. I just told DH today I was glad I lived in an area where ff was widely accepted, no one batted an eye when I had DD and if they do this time they will catch hell from me.

I think views like this are why the initiative is being put in place. I totally understand being on meds that are not BF friendly but I dont understand not being open to the idea of something that is great for your children.

And if you dont like looking at my boobs while im nursing in public, dont freaking look! Im not forcing you.

I would like to put an initative in place that once ks3pink comments on a post the post should be closed.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. All I am saying is those who bf should not look down on those who don't.

And if you don't like my comments then you can click the block button. Just saying.

No one is judging you for FF. In fact you are the one doing the judging. See your own bolded quote above.

HeiferBaby · July 2012

ks3pink:
HeiferBaby:
ks3pink:

blingbean:
I actually agree with the sentiment of the initiative. Having a child is also a choice, and if someone chooses to have a child that choice should be complicit with the decision to *try* to do what's best for the child. There are a host of reasons why a mother CAN'T breastfeed and for those women there should be plenty of support. However, absent a medical reason I don't think it's ok to just choose not to try. It's not like they are going to deny women formula altogether, but I think a woman who just *chooses* to formula feed without bf-ing does need a talking a to.... Of course, if she gets a talking to when there is already an issue (HIV, drugs, supply, pain, etc) that's a different matter entirely, but that doesn't appear to be what's being implied here.

I completely disagree with this. It is my right to choose. I have no desire to bf, I have given up my body for 9 months and I would like it back. I also have meds that I need to take the are not bf friendly but even if I didn't I wouldn't bf. None of the women in my family have ever bf. We all turned out just fine. I will not trash you for public bf (which I find extremely rude) as long as you don't trash me for ff. Everyone is different and has their reasons. I just told DH today I was glad I lived in an area where ff was widely accepted, no one batted an eye when I had DD and if they do this time they will catch hell from me.

I think views like this are why the initiative is being put in place. I totally understand being on meds that are not BF friendly but I dont understand not being open to the idea of something that is great for your children.

And if you dont like looking at my boobs while im nursing in public, dont freaking look! Im not forcing you.

I would like to put an initative in place that once ks3pink comments on a post the post should be closed.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. All I am saying is those who bf should not look down on those who don't.

And if you don't like my comments then you can click the block button. Just saying.

No one is judging you for FF. In fact you are the one doing the judging. See your own bolded quote above.

blingbean · July 2012

ks3pink:

I completely disagree with this. It is my right to choose. I have no desire to bf, I have given up my body for 9 months and I would like it back. I also have meds that I need to take the are not bf friendly but even if I didn't I wouldn't bf. None of the women in my family have ever bf. We all turned out just fine. I will not trash you for public bf (which I find extremely rude) as long as you don't trash me for ff. Everyone is different and has their reasons. I just told DH today I was glad I lived in an area where ff was widely accepted, no one batted an eye when I had DD and if they do this time they will catch hell from me.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I personally feel that going into parenthood with the idea that, "[you] have given up [your] body for 9 months" and that that entitles one to some inalienable right to choice in lieu of an innocent infant's right to the best possible health sheds a pretty negative light on one's fitness for parenthood. As I said before, there are a *lot* of reasons why a mom cannot (or may not want to) breastfeed but simply not wanting to DOES deserve at least a "talking to" from a medical professional since it is medically in the best interests of the child.

By the way, I have never breastfed in public (my baby isn't yet born ), and I don't plan to do so without a cover, but I recognize that my discomfort with doing so is a function of *my* prudishness. It is absolutely not rude to breastfeed in public, and while someone else doing so may make me feel uncomfortable that is my problem and something I need to get over. Breasts are for food. To view them as otherwise (again at the expense of childrens' needs) is puritanical and uneducated.

Ok, the stuff above is my balanced reply, but given that you assumed that I'm someone who bfs in public totally out of context (as though that were something inappropriate), I really can't let the snark go. In reply to "None of the women in my family have ever bf. We all turned out just fine," I can't help but point to studies such as this https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Search&db=pubmed&term=17984066 and wonder if having been breastfed might have resulted in a different view of the importance of breastfeeding...

dangerkitty102 · July 2012

babyike:
This is starting to happen in hospitals in Southeast Texas too. The brand new hospital I'm having this LO at has applied for the extremely hard to attain "baby-centered" certification status (also referred to as "baby-friendly"). Part of this includes the hospital not receiving any formula donations/gift sets for their patients. So if formula is needed/requested, it must be added to the hospital bill and charged to the patient. It may/may not be covered by insurance companies based on the company's policy.
I do not however think that mom's need to be "talked to" about their decision to BF or FF. It's their baby, and therefore their decision. Period.
I think not providing free forumla is an okay policy to have in place, and since I'm going to EBF I'm not offended by it at all. BUT, I also have friends that had difficulties/inability to breastfeed, so I do think it sucks for them. But then I also remind myself that moms who breastfeed don't get free BFing supplies (nipple shields, lanolin, pumps, pump parts, breast pads, etc are all added to the hospital bill) from the hospital to take home, so it seems fair to not offer free formula supplies to take home either... Nothing against moms who FF at all. JMHO.

My thoughts too. And then I remembered my hospital actually DID give me a nipple shield and medela harmony handheld breast pump. I wonder if I was billed for them? I don't think I was.

Rhomonk · July 2012

blingbean:
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I personally feel that going into parenthood with the idea that, "[you] have given up [your] body for 9 months" and that that entitles one to some inalienable right to choice in lieu of an innocent infant's right to the best possible health sheds a pretty negative light on one's fitness for parenthood. As I said before, there are a *lot* of reasons why a mom cannot (or may not want to) breastfeed but simply not wanting to DOES deserve at least a "talking to" from a medical professional since it is medically in the best interests of the child.

I don't want to breast feed. End of story. Side eye away. I am well educated on the benefits of breastfeeding and have researched both types of feeding, and I have decided that FF is what is best for me and my baby. I don't need a talking to from anyone.

Are there women who chose FF who may not have researched the benefits of breastfeeding? Absolutely. But the assumption that women who chose FF automatically need "education" is insulting. (I'm saying this as a blanket statement, not calling out anyone on this board.)

Otherwise, I agree with PP about breastfeeding. I respect a woman't right to breastfeed their child whenever and wherever.

dangerkitty102 · July 2012

blingbean:
ks3pink:

I completely disagree with this. It is my right to choose. I have no desire to bf, I have given up my body for 9 months and I would like it back. I also have meds that I need to take the are not bf friendly but even if I didn't I wouldn't bf. None of the women in my family have ever bf. We all turned out just fine. I will not trash you for public bf (which I find extremely rude) as long as you don't trash me for ff. Everyone is different and has their reasons. I just told DH today I was glad I lived in an area where ff was widely accepted, no one batted an eye when I had DD and if they do this time they will catch hell from me.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I personally feel that going into parenthood with the idea that, "[you] have given up [your] body for 9 months" and that that entitles one to some inalienable right to choice in lieu of an innocent infant's right to the best possible health sheds a pretty negative light on one's fitness for parenthood. As I said before, there are a *lot* of reasons why a mom cannot (or may not want to) breastfeed but simply not wanting to DOES deserve at least a "talking to" from a medical professional since it is medically in the best interests of the child.

By the way, I have never breastfed in public (my baby isn't yet born ), and I don't plan to do so without a cover, but I recognize that my discomfort with doing so is a function of *my* prudishness. It is absolutely not rude to breastfeed in public, and while someone else doing so may make me feel uncomfortable that is my problem and something I need to get over. Breasts are for food. To view them as otherwise (again at the expense of childrens' needs) is puritanical and uneducated.
Ok, the stuff above is my balanced reply, but given that you assumed that I'm someone who bfs in public totally out of context (as though that were something inappropriate), I really can't let the snark go. In reply to "None of the women in my family have ever bf. We all turned out just fine," I can't help but point to studies such as this https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Search&db=pubmed&term=17984066 and wonder if having been breastfed might have resulted in a different view of the importance of breastfeeding...

Agree with all of this, especially the bolded. Call me judgy, but I do give women that won't even attempt breastfeeding due to selfish reasons the side-eye.

sosoph · July 2012

dangerkitty102:
babyike:
This is starting to happen in hospitals in Southeast Texas too. The brand new hospital I'm having this LO at has applied for the extremely hard to attain "baby-centered" certification status (also referred to as "baby-friendly"). Part of this includes the hospital not receiving any formula donations/gift sets for their patients. So if formula is needed/requested, it must be added to the hospital bill and charged to the patient. It may/may not be covered by insurance companies based on the company's policy.
I do not however think that mom's need to be "talked to" about their decision to BF or FF. It's their baby, and therefore their decision. Period.
I think not providing free forumla is an okay policy to have in place, and since I'm going to EBF I'm not offended by it at all. BUT, I also have friends that had difficulties/inability to breastfeed, so I do think it sucks for them. But then I also remind myself that moms who breastfeed don't get free BFing supplies (nipple shields, lanolin, pumps, pump parts, breast pads, etc are all added to the hospital bill) from the hospital to take home, so it seems fair to not offer free formula supplies to take home either... Nothing against moms who FF at all. JMHO.
My thoughts too. And then I remembered my hospital actually DID give me a nipple shield and medela harmony handheld breast pump. I wonder if I was billed for them? I don't think I was.

BF supplies deemed necessary in the hospital are covered by insurance. And now, for new policies beginning Aug 1, breast pumps must be covered by insurance for first babies, and replacement parts for subsequent ones. WIC also provides them to working mothers.

adrianLO · July 2012

KacieLeigh:
ks3pink:
blingbean:
I actually agree with the sentiment of the initiative. Having a child is also a choice, and if someone chooses to have a child that choice should be complicit with the decision to *try* to do what's best for the child. There are a host of reasons why a mother CAN'T breastfeed and for those women there should be plenty of support. However, absent a medical reason I don't think it's ok to just choose not to try. It's not like they are going to deny women formula altogether, but I think a woman who just *chooses* to formula feed without bf-ing does need a talking a to.... Of course, if she gets a talking to when there is already an issue (HIV, drugs, supply, pain, etc) that's a different matter entirely, but that doesn't appear to be what's being implied here.
I completely disagree with this. It is my right to choose. I have no desire to bf, I have given up my body for 9 months and I would like it back. I also have meds that I need to take the are not bf friendly but even if I didn't I wouldn't bf. None of the women in my family have ever bf. We all turned out just fine. I will not trash you for public bf (which I find extremely rude) as long as you don't trash me for ff. Everyone is different and has their reasons. I just told DH today I was glad I lived in an area where ff was widely accepted, no one batted an eye when I had DD and if they do this time they will catch hell from me.
That's a ridiculously ignorant and uneducated statement. How is it extremely rude for me to feed my child in public with my breast? If it's not 'extremely rude' for you to feed your child with a bottle then it's not rude for me to feed my child with my breast.
Our society is all about "moving forward" and "not discriminating" until it comes to breastfeeding. You see more boob on a Victoria's Secret billboard - and its intended purpose IS to be sexual whereas feeding my child isn't. If you find that sexual in some way, I think you are the one with the problem.
Sorry - comments like that drive me crazy.

Agree. Seriously, women's boobs/cleavage are everywhere! We're allowed to flaunt them all over the place, but not for breastfeeding, only when they look sexy? I don't knock anyone for FF but I think it's really weird that breastfeeding ever be considered "rude"

byrne15 · July 2012

This is so crazy!

I FF ds #1 and I am 100% happy with that decision. If I got a "talking-to" every bottle I fed...there would have been major problems!

hooslisa · July 2012

dangerkitty102:
Agree with all of this, especially the bolded. Call me judgy, but I do give women that won't even attempt breastfeeding due to selfish reasons the side-eye.

Hmm

i'm not a fan of side-eyeing. i hate the term.

...but, begrudingly, i'm side eyeing and judging as well. it hurts my head, but i'm doing it. i can't imagine knowing all the health benefits and not at least giving it a try just because you don't want to.

babyike · July 2012

sosoph:
dangerkitty102:
babyike:
This is starting to happen in hospitals in Southeast Texas too. The brand new hospital I'm having this LO at has applied for the extremely hard to attain "baby-centered" certification status (also referred to as "baby-friendly"). Part of this includes the hospital not receiving any formula donations/gift sets for their patients. So if formula is needed/requested, it must be added to the hospital bill and charged to the patient. It may/may not be covered by insurance companies based on the company's policy.
I do not however think that mom's need to be "talked to" about their decision to BF or FF. It's their baby, and therefore their decision. Period.
I think not providing free forumla is an okay policy to have in place, and since I'm going to EBF I'm not offended by it at all. BUT, I also have friends that had difficulties/inability to breastfeed, so I do think it sucks for them. But then I also remind myself that moms who breastfeed don't get free BFing supplies (nipple shields, lanolin, pumps, pump parts, breast pads, etc are all added to the hospital bill) from the hospital to take home, so it seems fair to not offer free formula supplies to take home either... Nothing against moms who FF at all. JMHO.
My thoughts too. And then I remembered my hospital actually DID give me a nipple shield and medela harmony handheld breast pump. I wonder if I was billed for them? I don't think I was.
BF supplies deemed necessary in the hospital are covered by insurance. And now, for new policies beginning Aug 1, breast pumps must be covered by insurance for first babies, and replacement parts for subsequent ones. WIC also provides them to working mothers.

dangerkitty - My hospital with DD also gave me a nipple shield during my stay, and I had to ask for itemized billing records afterwards because of a payment conflict with my insurance company (Cigna PPO back then, group policy). I was billed $35 for breastfeeding supplies, and the shield was the only item I received while there. They may not charge anymore, but mine sure did back then. Pumps were not offered back then, but the new hospital I'll be at this time does provide Medela electric breast pumps in each post-partum room (the tubing/shells/parts are not free though, they are billed to insurance).

sosoph - Thank you for sharing this! I hadn't seen/known that this was in the works. Learned something new and I'm all for that! Yes

ShelbehhRawrr · July 2012

hooslisa:
dangerkitty102:
Agree with all of this, especially the bolded. Call me judgy, but I do give women that won't even attempt breastfeeding due to selfish reasons the side-eye.

i'm not a fan of side-eyeing. i hate the term.

...but, begrudingly, i'm side eyeing and judging as well. it hurts my head, but i'm doing it. i can't imagine knowing all the health benefits and not at least giving it a try just because you don't want to.

This.

Kasi80 · July 2012

Why is there always a debate on FF and BF. *sigh*

If I had a "talking to" like a reprimand I know I would lash out. Now if they asked which feeding method I preferred and I said FF but they asked if I knew the benefits of BFing then I would be OK with that but I would not like to be looked down upon because of my decision. Actually I really wouldn't care. I've already been through this once before and I chose to FF. It worked for us and I don't regret it. My kid rarely gets sick, she excels in all subjects in school, in fact school work comes easily to her. She has always performed at the top of the charts/percentiles in state tests. This is from a FF fed kid. Lecturing will get nowhere on me. I, like many other women, will choose what I feel works for me no matter what others may think about my decision.

Hmm, maybe BFing would have made her Doogie Howser!

Kasi80 · July 2012

ShelbehhRawrr:
hooslisa:
dangerkitty102:
Agree with all of this, especially the bolded. Call me judgy, but I do give women that won't even attempt breastfeeding due to selfish reasons the side-eye.

i'm not a fan of side-eyeing. i hate the term.

...but, begrudingly, i'm side eyeing and judging as well. it hurts my head, but i'm doing it. i can't imagine knowing all the health benefits and not at least giving it a try just because you don't want to.

This.

I see no issue with it. BFing is not for everyone whether they are fully capable of doing so or not.

triagain2 · July 2012

lissydee:

Ajm11:
The issue that I have is that the mother is going to be treated like a bad kid if she chooses to FF. I plan on BF but honestly couldn't care less what others choose to do. I'm all for hospitals promoting breastfeeding, but a medical reason does not need to be documented every time a baby receives a bottle of formula while in the hospital IMO.

I am a L&D/Maternity RN at a Baby Friendly Hospital and we have all our formula in a locked room that we have to sign out when its given. For those mom's who come in, stating that they just want to exclusively FF, we give them no grief/lecture. I dont think its necessary. They've made their choice. And our LC's visit them still, and help them with formula feeding and go over prep and feeding frequencies, feeding cues and the like (just as they would with bfing couplets). However, when we document a feed, we state the reason. In this instance, its "mother's request."

Now with our breastfeeding couplets, if baby needs to be supplemented (weight reasons, jaundice, medication contraindications...whatever) that gets documented too. Also, if she requests a supplement herself, we state that as well...because its always mom's choice. HOWEVER, we do "educate" and talk with mom about how supplementation will affect breastfeeding and we try our best to work with her and baby to help optimize her supply while the baby gets supplemented (i.e. we get her pumping, we use SNS, we pipette in the supplement while baby is at breast...etc). IMO, this education is 100% necessary to give if she is to be successful with her goals in breastfeeding. Oh and also, we have human donor milk available as well for supplementing, so its a choice for the parents which to choose. Which is awesome I think. I wish more hospitals has this as an option as well (and not just formula) for supplementing babies that need it.

Anyway, that aside, the problem with formula arbitrarily given out in hospitals with no documentation as to why, or when freebies are given out at discharge is that its being handed out to breastfeeding couplets with next to none education as to how supplementing your baby can potentially adversely affect your supply. And that is also why Bloomberg is promoting this formula "lock up" so to speak...its all about the education piece and helping mom's who choose to breastfeed be successful in that goal. This is also the reason why free formula gift bags are now being banned from many institutions (most recently in the new? Massachusetts hospitals).

Here is an interesting blog entry I came across tonight that also sums it up nicely I think (this is not necessarily with regard to Bloomberg's initiative, but rather speaks to the free formula samples. But it is in the same school of thought).

https://sdbfc.com/blog/2012/7/29/does-a-free-can-of-formula-really-benefit-anyone.html

I agree with a lot of what you say here and you put it nicely. The only argument I have is that (and you will probably agree as a PP nurse) that many many mothers come in saying they want to "breast and bottle feed". The population on Thebump.com does not accurately display the education level of the general population. Thebump girls are educated. When a mom says they want to do both, I, as a nurse, don't have the time to do an entire breastfeeding education on why you can't just give a bottle of formula here, then breastfeed when its convinent for you, and back and forth. There is too much education to give to these moms.

I tend to regard personal responsiblity highly and if you were pregnant for 9 months and didn't take the time to read anything about breastfeeding, talk to anyone, or even ask simple questions about it, then I don't really want to spend an hour trying to get your baby to latch only to see you bottlefeed the next feeding because "you're tired". Perhaps this makes me sound burntout but I have absolutely no problem helping a mom who is dedicated and really focused on breastfeeding. I'll help for hours, but the nonchalant attitude many women bring to breastfeeding I don't have time for.

MommyMelRN · July 2012

lissydee:
I am a L&D/Maternity RN at a Baby Friendly Hospital and we have all our formula in a locked room that we have to sign out when its given. For those mom's who come in, stating that they just want to exclusively FF, we give them no grief/lecture. I dont think its necessary. They've made their choice. And our LC's visit them still, and help them with formula feeding and go over prep and feeding frequencies, feeding cues and the like (just as they would with bfing couplets). However, when we document a feed, we state the reason. In this instance, its "mother's request."
Now with our breastfeeding couplets, if baby needs to be supplemented (weight reasons, jaundice, medication contraindications...whatever) that gets documented too. Also, if she requests a supplement herself, we state that as well...because its always mom's choice. HOWEVER, we do "educate" and talk with mom about how supplementation will affect breastfeeding and we try our best to work with her and baby to help optimize her supply while the baby gets supplemented (i.e. we get her pumping, we use SNS, we pipette in the supplement while baby is at breast...etc). IMO, this education is 100% necessary to give if she is to be successful with her goals in breastfeeding. Oh and also, we have human donor milk available as well for supplementing, so its a choice for the parents which to choose. Which is awesome I think. I wish more hospitals has this as an option as well (and not just formula) for supplementing babies that need it.
Anyway, that aside, the problem with formula arbitrarily given out in hospitals with no documentation as to why, or when freebies are given out at discharge is that its being handed out to breastfeeding couplets with next to none education as to how supplementing your baby can potentially adversely affect your supply. And that is also why Bloomberg is promoting this formula "lock up" so to speak...its all about the education piece and helping mom's who choose to breastfeed be successful in that goal. This is also the reason why free formula gift bags are now being banned from many institutions (most recently in the new? Massachusetts hospitals).

Here is an interesting blog entry I came across tonight that also sums it up nicely I think (this is not necessarily with regard to Bloomberg's initiative, but rather speaks to the free formula samples. But it is in the same school of thought).

https://sdbfc.com/blog/2012/7/29/does-a-free-can-of-formula-really-benefit-anyone.html

You just saved me a really long post, lol! I hate the way this article worded things, but then again, it is from fox news after all...

The hospital I used to work at did also offer education on breast feeding, even if mom came in stating they were formula feeding, but honestly in a non-judgemental way...unfortunately OB's weren't big into providing patient eduction regarding feeding choices. Again, it was offered, not forced. If mom said " I know all about breast feeding, I've made my choice" that's it, end of story, no one would bring it up again. You would be surprised at how many moms know nothing about the benefits of breastmilk though.

As for the formula discharge bags, they are detrimental to even ff moms. When the hospital gives a certain formula, it sends the message that that formula is endorsed by the hospital, making parents feel they need to spend on brand name formula, when in reality generic formulas are just as good and cost a fraction of the price.

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