What does CIO mean to you?

MagickalNarwhal · July 2012

I was reading something on another message board while up late trying out new ways to help my poor sleeper sleep, and the thread got me thinking about my own feelings on CIO. I do not want to do CIO, but I am considering sleep training that will likely involve crying-in-arms at some point. So I guess I am wondering what YOU consider CIO, or specifically if you are against CIO, what exactly does that mean to you?

KateLouise · July 2012

I am completely and utterly against CIO when it means, "I put my baby in her crib and left her to wail until she went to sleep." (Do people even do this?)

I am reasonably against CIO when it means, "I put my baby in her crib and then went in to check on her, patted her at increasing intervals." Although I'm mostly against this for myself because I'm just not comfortable listening to my baby cry. But if others are ok with it, I don't judge them for it. Sleep deprivation is brutal and I could imagine getting to a point of just having to do something.

I'm not sure I understand your "crying in arms" phrase.

I have done the baby whisperer pick up/put down and shush-pat methods. It involves some crying, but you pick your baby up and soothe them if they get to the point of crying. If they're just fussing then you pat and shush them.

To me there is a difference between a baby crying and fussing in their cots, and now that I'm onto baby 2 I know that I can't listen to my baby cry in their cot. If they want me to cuddle them then I will.

I can listen to them fuss on and off for a bit.

But my girls mostly will build up to a wail. or maybe my reaction has taught them that building up to a wail will get me to cuddle them. I will never know if my babies largely behave the same because that's how they came out of the packet, or because I taught them to behave a certain way, but regardless I am comfortable with their behaviour and my response to it.

Finally you have to do what feels right to you.

eav2c · July 2012

To me CIO is letting LO cry alone without my comfort or soothing whether that be in his crib, chair, or elsewhere. There are times where he is just darn agitated even when I hold, soothe, and cuddle him. I don't believe that is letting him CIO because I am still being attentive to his needs. He rarely cries but occasionally gets himself riled up. The best thing I can do is cradle him, rock, and sing. We also don't do CIO in our home as we don't feel comfortable with it (andplusalso any form of insane crying sends my hormones into overdrive!!).

CalinsBride · July 2012

IMO, CIO = crying alone.

I'm okay with crying while having their back patted, crying while being verbally comforted, or crying in arms. We are planning on night-weaning DD soon (I NEED sleep!) but we will not be leaving her alone to cry in the dark. We will hold her and comfort her.

I actually am okay with a baby crying alone if it's only for a short period of time. Some babies get over-stimulated from touch and just need to be left alone, and then will fall asleep on their own. If DD would cry for 5 minutes and then go to sleep, I would be fine with it, but not for longer than that. I feel like it's different for older babies. For young babies for whom attachment has not yet been established, I think it could be harmful, but for older babies who just don't want to go to sleep, it's different.

00jennifer00 · July 2012

For me CIO=crying alone, including leaving for a few minutes and coming back. I don't see how it has anything to do with holding the baby and trying to comfort them. When I nw, sometimes it involves tears, but I'm always right there, redirecting, cuddling, patting, etc. That's not CIO in my opinion.

tokenhoser · July 2012

"Cry it out" means leaving a baby to cry alone, either for intervals or just uncomforted until they fall asleep (extinction).

It is not CIO if a baby is crying and you're right there, holding or comforting beside the crib. It's also not CIO if you've got a car seat crier and you don't stop every time they cry.

I'm not necessarily against CIO. I'm against doing anything just because someone tells you you need to. But I also know that everyone has a line of exhaustion that needs to be respected. It has to be the parents' call.

kcisthebombdotcom · July 2012

CIO=baby is left alone by parents to "cry it out" until they fall to sleep. This can mean you go back at intervals (a la the Ferber method) to pat them on the back or extinction method when you leave them and don't go back until the morning, but either one is CIO in my eyes.

I'm not necessarily "against" CIO. I think that it's appropriate for older infants/young toddlers with serious sleep disturbances who have tried other gentler methods without success. I only find it wrong when it's used the wrong way, like with young infants or a mom with a 6 month old who wants the baby to drop their one night feeding but they otherwise are sleeping fine.

MagickalNarwhal · July 2012

Thanks for the discussion. I think I automatically side-eyed anyone who mentioned "sleep training" especially for a kid my son's age or younger. We had a sleep doula come over yesterday and she gave us a plan to wean my son off on one of his 4 night feedings. It basically requires that he effectively go back to sleep (and stay asleep for at least 30 min) after a night waking in a way OTHER than eating, but any other method of soothin is OK, so I rocked him, bounced him, snuggled him, gave him a paci, etc until I got him to go back to sleep without needing a bottle. It involved him crying, but while I was snuggling/rocking him.

I think I had to adjust my thinking and realize there is grey area there. I don't want to do the kind of CIO where he cries without me there but I feel OK about what I did last night, even though if you'd asked me what I thought of that 6 months ago I'd have had a very different answer! But here we are, and he's getting barely 11 hours in a day of sleep, with lots of night wakings and really awful napping. So hopefully I can be helping him to get better sleep and not be the crabby overtired zombie that he is now!

00jennifer00 · July 2012

I just want to give you hope that even if he's a terrible sleeper now, it will probably regulate later. My second child was a HORRIBLE sleeper. By 5mo she dropped naps, I'm not kidding. She'd fall asleep nursing, I'd lay her down, and she was like rubber, she'd bounce up WIDE awake. I gave up trying to force it (no CIO) and just let her be, she'd crash nursing several times a day and then wake up and be good. Now at almost 6, she is my best sleeper by a long shot and has been for years. She goes to bed between 7pm and 8pm most nights (sometimes she gets to stay up to 9pm, but about half the time we find her asleep on the floor when we come in to have them get ready for bed) and she wakes up between 6:30 and 7:00.

kcisthebombdotcom · July 2012

MagickalNarwhal:

Thanks for the discussion. I think I automatically side-eyed anyone who mentioned "sleep training" especially for a kid my son's age or younger. We had a sleep doula come over yesterday and she gave us a plan to wean my son off on one of his 4 night feedings. It basically requires that he effectively go back to sleep (and stay asleep for at least 30 min) after a night waking in a way OTHER than eating, but any other method of soothin is OK, so I rocked him, bounced him, snuggled him, gave him a paci, etc until I got him to go back to sleep without needing a bottle. It involved him crying, but while I was snuggling/rocking him.

I think I had to adjust my thinking and realize there is grey area there. I don't want to do the kind of CIO where he cries without me there but I feel OK about what I did last night, even though if you'd asked me what I thought of that 6 months ago I'd have had a very different answer! But here we are, and he's getting barely 11 hours in a day of sleep, with lots of night wakings and really awful napping. So hopefully I can be helping him to get better sleep and not be the crabby overtired zombie that he is now!

What you did is not CIO. Teaching a child another method to soothe besides nursing while you're holding him in your arms is totally different than leaving him in a crib to "cry it out" to go to sleep. I don't think that's a grey area at all. You did what you needed to do to get your child to get the sleep that he needs to thrive. No harm in that.

Rdautenhahn · July 2012

Sometimes my son who bed shares will wake up and be hysterical around 12-1 am, and sometimes I have to set him down for 2 or 3 minutes while I gather myself. I feel so bad about it, but it's what I know I need to do for me. I always feel so guilty afterwards because he has celiac disease like I do, so if I have something making me feel like crap usually he does too. I hope you don't side eye me for this, sometimes it's just the only thing I can do.

ETA: I don't consider this CIO because I return as soon as I have gone to the bathroom or whatever I need to do to collect myself and my H works nights so I have no one to help. I still don't feel good about it, it's just what I need to do.

Chrisaloyd · July 2012

eav2c:
To me CIO is letting LO cry alone without my comfort or soothing whether that be in his crib, chair, or elsewhere. There are times where he is just darn agitated even when I hold, soothe, and cuddle him. I don't believe that is letting him CIO because I am still being attentive to his needs. He rarely cries but occasionally gets himself riled up. The best thing I can do is cradle him, rock, and sing. We also don't do CIO in our home as we don't feel comfortable with it (andplusalso any form of insane crying sends my hormones into overdrive!!).

The part about it messing with your hormones - I'm right there with you! I literally get horrible anxiety when he cries more than 2 or 3 minutes... I don't know if it's good or bad.

lizardknitter · July 2012

Rdautenhahn:
Sometimes my son who bed shares will wake up and be hysterical around 12-1 am, and sometimes I have to set him down for 2 or 3 minutes while I gather myself. I feel so bad about it, but it's what I know I need to do for me. I always feel so guilty afterwards because he has celiac disease like I do, so if I have something making me feel like crap usually he does too. I hope you don't side eye me for this, sometimes it's just the only thing I can do.
ETA: I don't consider this CIO because I return as soon as I have gone to the bathroom or whatever I need to do to collect myself and my H works nights so I have no one to help. I still don't feel good about it, it's just what I need to do.

I'm sort of in your same position and I don't consider that CIO. We bedshare, and if I need to get up and pee in the middle of the night, V will wake up and have a fit about being alone. She has to cry for the 2-3 minutes I'm gone and I comfort her (BF) as soon as I return. She can see me sitting on the toilet, so she's not really alone. I need to night wean so I can get KU, but she just escalates in the middle of the night.

TiffanyBerry · July 2012

To me, CIO means leaving your kid alone and letting them know that you are NOT going to come help comfort them. "How long" depends on the kid. I think 10 minutes is an eternity for a 6 mo old, especially if you're out of the room and they don't hear your voice, and would count as CIO to me. I don't think 10 minutes is too long for my two year old, who can hear me say "close your eyes and go to sleep; it's bedtime" and can tell me if there is a specific "reason" she "needs" me ("water", "diaper wet", "help daph-ee sleep", "fix big bear arm", etc...).

I do think that crying can happen without CIO methods. Babies cry when they're upset about something. But we don't necessarily have to meet their exact needs every single time. My daughter was upset about partial night weaning, and would cry, but we cosleep and I was in bed snuggling, patting, or being pushed away. She's been upset some of the times I won't lay with her until she falls asleep because she's playing, but I talk to her through the door, I come back in periodically, and I listen to her cues and the type of crying she's doing.

That said, I've come to this conclusion based on MY child. I have no idea if I'd feel the same with a different personality.

MagickalNarwhal · July 2012

Rdautenhahn:
Sometimes my son who bed shares will wake up and be hysterical around 12-1 am, and sometimes I have to set him down for 2 or 3 minutes while I gather myself. I feel so bad about it, but it's what I know I need to do for me. I always feel so guilty afterwards because he has celiac disease like I do, so if I have something making me feel like crap usually he does too. I hope you don't side eye me for this, sometimes it's just the only thing I can do.
ETA: I don't consider this CIO because I return as soon as I have gone to the bathroom or whatever I need to do to collect myself and my H works nights so I have no one to help. I still don't feel good about it, it's just what I need to do.

OMG I don't consider that anywhere near CIO and I don't judge or side eye you at all!! That's just a reality! You get to your baby as soon as you reasonably can. I do that all the time and if I side eyed anyone who did that I'd be in trouble

CalinsBride · July 2012

Rdautenhahn:

Sometimes my son who bed shares will wake up and be hysterical around 12-1 am, and sometimes I have to set him down for 2 or 3 minutes while I gather myself. I feel so bad about it, but it's what I know I need to do for me. I always feel so guilty afterwards because he has celiac disease like I do, so if I have something making me feel like crap usually he does too. I hope you don't side eye me for this, sometimes it's just the only thing I can do.

ETA: I don't consider this CIO because I return as soon as I have gone to the bathroom or whatever I need to do to collect myself and my H works nights so I have no one to help. I still don't feel good about it, it's just what I need to do.

There is NOTHING wrong with that. If you need to gather yourself, you need to gather yourself. Good for you for knowing your limits.

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