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October 2011 Moms
DoctorWorm222
member
Since it got buried last week...
DoctorWorm222
member
I was hoping to ask again about infant toilet training/elimination communication. Hopefully the FB bushes will see fit to let it be this time.
Here's what I wrote last week:
I haven't noticed any discussions about infant toilet training on this board, but I've never brought it up either.
I've been practicing a bit of EC (elimination communication) with E since she was about 3 months old. By 6mo or so, I was pretty good at predicting when she needed to "go" and she seemed to be aware of what she was supposed to do when she was sitting on the potty. Things were going great, and she was having most of her "at home" BMs on the toilet (of course, they don't do this at daycare). Unfortunately, things have gone to shiz in the last few weeks. She suddenly *hates* the potty and screams the instant we sit her on it. We've tried the normal toilet and we've tried switching to a baby potty chair. No dice. I should also add that this is probably related to a new phase we're going through where she screams whenever I try to put her down or hold her still (in anything: exersaucer, high chair, pack n play, etc).
I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions as to how I might get E to warm up to the potty again. Its not something I really stress over, and if she hates it she can poop in her diaper. I don't want her to develop some kind of a negative association with the toilet that might make things harder down the line. But it was really, really nice while it lasted, and I'd like to keep it going if possible.
And thanks to the two ladies who dug through all the crap last Friday and replied. Just thought re-posting would give me a better chance of getting more advice, not that yours was unappreciated 
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Since it got buried last week...
I've read about it, and have a nestie friend who was successful with it with her son, who at 18 months is almost fully potty trained. I've tried it a couple times with Layla, but haven't been successful at being consistent, or reading her cues of when she needed to go until it was too late, she was mid-poo.
I plan to try again when I'm home more consistently.
My mother apparently did this and insisted that I was fully potty trained at 14 months and that I have to aim for the exact same. The fact that I don't makes me lazy and a bad mother.
I have no real opinion on it otherwise.
honestly, i think EC is crazy. they are babies!!! they're supposed to crap in their diapers. this article also makes a strong point for not PT early (before age 3)
https://www.babble.com/toddler/toddler-health-safety/dangers-potty-training-early/
I don't think EC is really about early potty training per se.
Also there are cultures who don't use diapers at all, so to say babies are "supposed" to use them really doesn't make sense.
obviously i meant they are supposed to poop at will. in diapers, banana leafs, whatever....they are not supposed to use a toilet as a baby.
your friends must all be really lucky then b/c the norm i see is girls are usually ready around 2.5-3 and boys around 3-3.5 this means they come to YOU and say "i want to wear underwear and go on the potty". it's not having the parents give out M&M's as bribes or to have them sit on the toilet every 20 min. for 3 days. that is potty training and yes, it works a lot of the time but that doesn't mean they are truly ready. most posts about PT i read on the toddler boards say that their kids are trained for the daytime but still wake up with a full pull up. why? b/c they are not really ready!
Even for those who practice EC, the babies poop at will. There's nothing I can do to make E poop or make her "hold it". Its just a matter of teaching myself to recognize that she's getting ready to "go" so that I can hold her over the pot. As I understand it, this is widely practiced throughout the world. A lot of people have no access to diapers. And you can bet that if you were carrying around a diaper-less baby all day, you'd figure out quickly when your LO was about to "go" so he/she wouldn't "go" all over you!
I don't see any problem with actively teaching your child to use the toilet. I don't plan to wait until E specifically tells me she'd like to use the toilet. And if that means that she uses the toilet during the day and wears pull-ups at night for a while, that's totally fine.
I don't get how the same person can have these two thoughts:
1)
2)
How does this:
correlate with this:
Christieny - your thoughts on potty training are directly opposite to those on sleep. It just doesn't make any sense. Why do you have to train your child to sleep - an innate quality that everyone does, but not train your child to use the toilet? Why do you think children come to their own minds about potty training but not about sleep? Why do you think 3 years of changing diapers is acceptable, but 9 months of going to your child when they cry is not?
Using your sleep logic, your child is capable of using the toilet and just "playing you" by continuing to use diapers. And those of us who don't teach our children to use the toilet are dooming them to a lifetime of shitty shitters.
The only reason I mentioned early potty training is that I've known a few children who perhaps waited too long to potty train. Once they got used to the sensation of a dirty diaper, it was a battle getting them to go in the toilet. Of course, I assume that the parents in question weren't changing the baby often enough. If you change your kid regularly that doesn't happen.
Bwahahahaha! I'm glad my kid won't be a shitty shitter
Blu, the correlation is that what christiney does = right. She sleep trains, so it's right. She doesn't do EC, so it's crazy.
This article is kind of ridiculous. I plan to start EC soon, mainly with BMs. I'm not expecting my child to be potty trained anytime soon, mainly just to make the association between the potty and keep nasty squishy diapers to a minimum.
Blu, this is comic genius!
I know nothing about EC and I only know one person IRL that attempted it. If you have the patience and the energy for all of that, go for it. DD is potty trained but not for naps or over night yet. She has been waking from her nap dry so I know she can do it, we just haven't changed her crib over to a toddler bed yet ( which obviously needs to happen so she can get down and go to the bathroom when she needs to) we are hoping to transition by the end of the summer. I don't believe there is an exact age for potty training, it is when your child is ready and exhibits all of the behaviors that they are ready. I don't know any kids that go off to school in diapers.
I wouldn't push it if she is going through a phase where she doesn't like it, I would just go with the flow and then try again In a few weeks.
Okay so EEC works I have friends who did it and they told me there was a window where it would work and then it would be hard. I have a few friends who had their kids trained at a little over a year. I tried several times between 14 months to three years old. I would spend days and DD would never tell me she had to go and she started hiding when I tried to put her on the toilet for anything but poop. I didn't push the issue. If after three days we had made ZERO progress I would stop. When she was finally ready to go on the potty it took exactly two days to get her to go on the potty every time for everything. Getting her through the night took a week.
So what I was told by friends is this. EEC is extremely time consuming but worth it. But you have to have the time and energy to devote a large chunk of your live to it. You also have to have a spouse willing to be on board with it or you will not be able to leave your child until they are much older. One friend, who has three kids had two of them only in diapers in the hospital. Once they got home never wore a diaper again. The other child just never caught on and it was her third child. He is 16 months old and she is starting to potty train him now and it's a slow process. She is also a daycare worker who potty trains other people's kids. If you want to potty train early she said the best way is to start slowly. There are other ways that work faster but don't always catch on and it's frustrating for everyone. So if there is fear at all around the potty just have the potty become a piece of living room furniture. Then start modeling going to the bathroom. In other words explain what's going on when you go. Even though they are young she says this is important. Then gradually start doing things like getting your child to just sit and read a book on the potty and then start having diaper free days. If your child gets frustrated, back off. And she is the one that said if after three days there was no progress, just stop and try again in a couple of months.
I hope this helps a little. She said the most important thing about early potty training is taking it slow and make it a happy process. She also told me she has never rewarded a child with anything more than a high five and a hug.
wow, that's kind of harsh! I just got home from work and am catching up now. I am sorry for coming off self righteous, that was not my intent at all. i have my opinions and you have yours and that's great. that is one of the thing i love about boards like this, different point of view.
I don't care if you want to get up 5x a night with your kid still, knock yourself out! like i've said before, that was me with my son. it wasn't until til he was 10-11m when i finally broke down and sleep trained. we were co-sleeping out of desperation and he was literally kicking the sh*t out of us all night long. i would wake up with giant bruises. CIO worked in less than a week and since then i've obviously been a big fan. we did it earlier this time w/ DD. right at 6m. and once again it worked great. it is right for me and yes, i will suggest it to others on the board at their wits end. that doesn't mean i'm right and you're wrong.
sorry, I still think EC is crazy and i bet the majority of others do to. once again, it has nothing to do with me being right and you being wrong. if you want to stay 5 feet from a toilet all day, good for you. I do not have the time or patience for that.
re: the potty training article. I never said younger kids can't and don't potty train fine. the article is talking about how they've discovered its bad for them to hold their pee in all day long, instead of just peeing at will in a diaper. there has been a rise of UTI's and other medical issues b/c of this. that's why i said they technically might not be ready. i am waiting for my son to be totally ready because i am not interested in either A) being a shut in for 3-4 days and hardcore training him or
going with the flow and cleaning up pee and crap off the floor. I do ask him every day if he'd like to try but so far he has no interest and i'm not pushing it.
I'm sorry if you don't understand my logic, it's really not that complicated. sleep is something babies need to do. it's been proven to help with their brain development. frequent night wakings are not good for them, consistent sleep is. also, selfishly, it effects me and my sleep, which I cherish.
toddlers do not need to be PT by a certain age. the article I posted discusses the dangers of a 2yr old holding in their pee, waiting for the toilet instead of just going in a diaper. i would much rather take 30 seconds to change my sons diaper instead of cleaning his crap up all day long. i'm not sure if you have any friends with kids in that age range but my FB newsfeed is full of "ugh, potty training is so hard!" type comments b/c they are trying to push something their kid is not ready for. when they are really ready, it won't be that hard!!!
they are two completely different things and making a broad comparison between them is what actually makes no sense here.
IMO... EC is a waste of time at this age. I really don't believe that it will help potty train your child at a younger age, and as you have mentioned, it is really you that is being trained to recognize her cues. I would just wait until she is much older and start then especially since she is having a fit when you put her on the toilet.
Also, I really do not understand why children are as old as 4 and still wearing diapers. Children used to always be potty trained by age 2 and that was the norm. I believe that nothing gets them potty trained faster than telling them it is time for big boy/girl underwear, putting them in underwear, and telling them that they must use the potty. I really think the extended use of diapers delays potty training as it keeps them dry whereas putting them in underwear would make it uncomfortable every time the peed their pants and would get them potty trained much faster. Of course I will have to see how this works for DS when he is pushing 2 but this used to be the standard back in the day and it worked then so I believe it will work now.
it's really not that simple and i'm sure you'll see that in few years. troll the toddler board for a day and read all the posts from exasperated parents. toddlers are very strong willed and will do what they want, when they want when it's under their control. i'm not sure where you are getting your info that "back in the day the norm was two" but i don't think that is true at all. maybe if it was and the average age is older now, that is a good thing. it means that parents are listening to their kids and not forcing something on them. if just putting them in underwear=being potty trained then it would be a piece of cake but it's not that easy at all.
This is actually not the reason. Before disposable diapers cloth diapers were a PITA to constantly wash and dry and they were not as absorbant and didn't wick away the moisture. Kids potty trained sooner because being in diapers was gross and uncomfortable and they didn't want to sit in their mess. Also as a society it was easier to do things like that because it was more common for mothers to stay home and have the time to focus on it.
This exactly which is why I think putting them in underwear immediately when beginning potty training is most effective. I also agree that it was easier when Moms stayed at home.
Christiney...I never said it was "easy" but I do think it is more effective to just put them in underwear. That method usually only requires a few days to a week to potty train. I have know many older Moms who have used that method and had success as well as generations of Moms in the past. Also, I do not let my child decide what he will eat, when he will go to sleep, what he can play with (electrical cords anyone??), whether he will take his medicine, etc. so I am not going to let him decide when he should be potty trained. I do not know anyone over the age of 40 who was potty trained at 2 and is damaged by it. IMO parenting is a dictatorship that is only loosened a bit at a time once the child can begin to make appropriate decisions.
there is a huge difference between letting your baby play with an unsafe power cord and letting them decide when they want to use a toilet. you can not force a kid to eat, if you have a picky eater sooner or later you will let them pick their own foods or else they will go hungry. also, you can't make a toddler go to bed before they are sleepy, if you think you can....good luck with that! if you want to parent as a dictator, then that is your prerogative but most toddler expert will tell you that giving them choices is very important. toddlers can make appropriate decisions, babies obviously can't. there is a huge difference.
PT early is not going to damage someone for life but it can cause chronic bladder/UTI problems. how do you know you don't know someone with those issue? maybe they just haven't shared it with you! if this BMB is still around in 2yrs there will be all sorts of posts like "why won't he poop on the toilet? i keep giving him stickers and it's not working!" this is what i am avoiding, frustration over something i can not control.
Really? So should we all be wearing diapers instead of using the toilet as to not get bladder and UTI issues? I have never seen any scientific literature to support this conclusion. UTIs are caused by getting sh*! in the urethra not by voiding in a diaper vs. toilet. In fact, once could argue that prolonged use of diapers could cause more UTIs as it would be more likely that bacteria from sh*! would enter the urethra. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I am not buying the UTI/bladder argument unless someone can cough up a valid research article disproving me. Again, potty training by age 2 was the norm until the "you must always make your child feel good and do as they wish " philosophy hit the shelves post Dr. Spock.
https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/103/Supplement_3/1346.full
https://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1080/003655901753224422
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1464-410X.2002.02903.x/full
Conclusions: Methods of training differed between the groups with and without lasting problems. The symptom group started training at a later age, had more tendency to punish and were more demanding when micturition did not start readily. The findings from the questionnaire strengthen the hypothesis that urge syndrome can be due to poor methods of potty-training. Very few parents searched spontaneously for help, which should prompt practitioners and pediatricians to be more alert to this problem.
Read More: https://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1080/003655901753224422
They do say starting training earlier is better but that setting unrealistic expections such as expecting them to be toilet trained and doing things on YOUR timeline as opposed to introducing them to it and letting them go at their own pace has negative consequences on their physical ability to go to the bathroom, UTIs and bladder issues.
OMG. did you bother to read any of my responses? THEY ARE TOTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS!! the only thing i used the word crazy to describe was EC and sorry, that seems to be a popular opinion.
you can't teach someone the skill of potty training if the kid is not ready!!! you should know that since you have a toddler. i am so sick of people getting their panties in a bunch over sleep training posts. i really don't care if you think i'm a ***, you're a complete stranger to me. this is the internet and sometimes you will read things you don't like. so no, i wouldn't be pissed b/c someone stated their very valid opinion, it's a free world!
when did i say that? please read my responses more carefully instead of putting words in my mouth. all i said was that training a 2yr old to hold their pee in can cause chronic UTI's and bladder issues b/c their bodies are not mature enough. did you even read the link i posted?
For the OP - I would try waiting in case she is scared. Maybe she is just coming to realize depth and it's dawning on her that her booty is hanging over a hole (where before she didn't realize)? It's hard to be sure, but maybe give it a week or do and try again.
I have never tried EC, but my friends mom did it for her and her brother and they were both potty trained at a year. I potty trained 4 of my former nanny kids (two girls and two boy) all right after their 2nd birthday. It took me a week for the girls and two weeks for the boys. My 5th nanny kid was potty trained at 20mo by his parents. Never used pull-ups on any of them. Now two of my nanny kids are in diapers (they are twins), and they are 32mo. I find it extremely disgusting to be still changing their diapers when they could be potty trained. But, due to me not being here everyday, and parents that find diapers easier to deal with than taking them to the bathroom...there is no point for me to potty train them when their parents will put them back in diapers out of convenience.