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Looking for opinions...

KaeldrasmommyKaeldrasmommy member
in Blended Families

DH has primary of our D and joint of our S. BM bailed 2 years ago and hasn't seen the kids since nor has she talked to them in a year and a half. Our state doesn't allow you to adopt by legal abandonment, and there was nothing that we knew to do to change the custody arrangement without being able to contact her.

BM decided to crawl out of the woodwork recently. She came to town this week with her most recent FI and wanted to see the kids. Well, bypassing the arguments over whether this should be allowed and in what way, DH has let her take them for the last 3 days, all day, not supervised by anyone that we trust, and is only required to bring them home at night.

DH is convinced that if he pisses BM off, she will show up with a cop and take S. Or that if she doesn't, she'll flat take us to court and take both of the kids. Everyone I know thinks he is entirely wrong in this, and that we should be far more worried that something will happen to the kids while they are with her, because she's a neglectful druggie, or that she'll just leave with them. Everyone, including my mom, who used to work with childhaven, is telling me that there is no way that she would be given the kids now that she has left them like that.

So tell me ladies, what would you have done? What would happen if she decided to raise a stink about it? Would she stand a chance, or is my DH as raving as I think he is?

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Re: Looking for opinions...

  • FutureMrsWittigFutureMrsWittig member

    To my understanding in custody disputes "posession is 9/10ths of the law".  She could take off with them and unless she has flat out had her rights terminated no law enforcement agency is going to make her give them back.  Your H would have to take her to court, which can take a long time.

    BUT, the reality of the matter is, you can't make him see it your way.  If he wants to let them go, you really can't stop it.  All you can do is say "I won't be held responsible for picking up the pieces when this all falls apart."  And then you have to decide how willing you are to actually stick to that.  Because you will have to witness the aftermath.

    It's a sucky situation.  What it comes down to is can you live with it?

    Mama of 2: one who grew in my womb, both who grow in my heart.
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  • KaeldrasmommyKaeldrasmommy member
    imageFutureMrsWittig:

    To my understanding in custody disputes "posession is 9/10ths of the law".  She could take off with them and unless she has flat out had her rights terminated no law enforcement agency is going to make her give them back.  Your H would have to take her to court, which can take a long time.

    BUT, the reality of the matter is, you can't make him see it your way.  If he wants to let them go, you really can't stop it.  All you can do is say "I won't be held responsible for picking up the pieces when this all falls apart."  And then you have to decide how willing you are to actually stick to that.  Because you will have to witness the aftermath.

    It's a sucky situation.  What it comes down to is can you live with it?

    You're right, there is no making him see it my way. And I have left him responsible for all of the arrangements, I refuse to come face to face with that woman again if I can help it. As far as that is concerned, I'm angry that it feels very much like he is disregarding my fears in favor of what BM wants, which goes very much against the way that we've been equal parents while she couldn't be bothered to be one. I really don't think that if either parent is uncomfortable with a situation, that the kids should be put in that situation regardless of who else it involves.

    Sorry, that was a rant of it's own, and very little to do with your response. I haven't been this upset or worried about something in a long time.

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  • FutureMrsWittigFutureMrsWittig member
    imageKaeldrasmommy:
    imageFutureMrsWittig:

    To my understanding in custody disputes "posession is 9/10ths of the law".  She could take off with them and unless she has flat out had her rights terminated no law enforcement agency is going to make her give them back.  Your H would have to take her to court, which can take a long time.

    BUT, the reality of the matter is, you can't make him see it your way.  If he wants to let them go, you really can't stop it.  All you can do is say "I won't be held responsible for picking up the pieces when this all falls apart."  And then you have to decide how willing you are to actually stick to that.  Because you will have to witness the aftermath.

    It's a sucky situation.  What it comes down to is can you live with it?

    You're right, there is no making him see it my way. And I have left him responsible for all of the arrangements, I refuse to come face to face with that woman again if I can help it. As far as that is concerned, I'm angry that it feels very much like he is disregarding my fears in favor of what BM wants, which goes very much against the way that we've been equal parents while she couldn't be bothered to be one. I really don't think that if either parent is uncomfortable with a situation, that the kids should be put in that situation regardless of who else it involves.

    Sorry, that was a rant of it's own, and very little to do with your response. I haven't been this upset or worried about something in a long time.

    Nothing to apologize for.  It's incredibly frustrating when your partner refuses to consider your feelings.  My H and I struggle with that a lot.  I'm sorry you're going through it.

    Have you tried having that conversation with your H, separate from the visitation issue?  Saying "It bothers me that you feel comfortable making big decisions, not with my input, but in spite of it..."?

    Mama of 2: one who grew in my womb, both who grow in my heart.
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  • KaeldrasmommyKaeldrasmommy member
    imageFutureMrsWittig:
    imageKaeldrasmommy:
    imageFutureMrsWittig:

    To my understanding in custody disputes "posession is 9/10ths of the law".  She could take off with them and unless she has flat out had her rights terminated no law enforcement agency is going to make her give them back.  Your H would have to take her to court, which can take a long time.

    BUT, the reality of the matter is, you can't make him see it your way.  If he wants to let them go, you really can't stop it.  All you can do is say "I won't be held responsible for picking up the pieces when this all falls apart."  And then you have to decide how willing you are to actually stick to that.  Because you will have to witness the aftermath.

    It's a sucky situation.  What it comes down to is can you live with it?

    You're right, there is no making him see it my way. And I have left him responsible for all of the arrangements, I refuse to come face to face with that woman again if I can help it. As far as that is concerned, I'm angry that it feels very much like he is disregarding my fears in favor of what BM wants, which goes very much against the way that we've been equal parents while she couldn't be bothered to be one. I really don't think that if either parent is uncomfortable with a situation, that the kids should be put in that situation regardless of who else it involves.

    Sorry, that was a rant of it's own, and very little to do with your response. I haven't been this upset or worried about something in a long time.

    Nothing to apologize for.  It's incredibly frustrating when your partner refuses to consider your feelings.  My H and I struggle with that a lot.  I'm sorry you're going through it.

    Have you tried having that conversation with your H, separate from the visitation issue?  Saying "It bothers me that you feel comfortable making big decisions, not with my input, but in spite of it..."?

    No, actually, I haven't. I'm afraid that they are so entangled that it wouldn't work very well.
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  • KaeldrasmommyKaeldrasmommy member
    imageMelRC117:

    So the CO doesn't reflect that your H has had them for the past two years?  What is the schedule laid out in the CO say?  If it is not explicit, then yes the whole thing of her having the kids, the police wouldn't be able to get them back unless if they were in jeopardy, were around drugs, left alone (depending on their age), etc.  BUT lets say, and I'll use DH's CO as an example, that DH has them all summer except EOW.  And let's say that we have not gotten SS back since Sunday and BM refuses to give them back.  Well its been more than 24 hours so BM has now committed a crime, not just violating court order, but has intereferred with child custody.  In my state (WI), violating a court order and refusing to return child can result in criminal charges. If they refuse to return the kids within 24 hours, it becomes a misdeameanor.  If they refuse to return the kids within 48 or 72 (not sure which one), it turns into a felony.  This is why I hate that our CO doesn't explicitly spell out which years DH gets Thanksgiving or Easter for example...it just says every other year...how can you prove easily that BM had SS last year and now again this year?  It's really difficult.  That's why I wish it could say even years DH gets Thanksgiving and odd years BM gets Thanksgiving. 

    With her just taking off, I really think this should not have been ignored and not reflected in the CO for so long.  Did you guys document how she was never around for two years?  All I can say is document, document, document.  Every time we have SS extra I document on a calendar.  I have DH save every single email. 

    As far as we knew, there was nothing to do to alter the CO while she was gone. So it says DH has D, BM has S, they spend every weekend from 5 Fri to 5 Sun at alternating houses. Holidays alternate years, Father's day with DH, Mother's day with BM, 2 weeks just with DH in the summer. But everything is documented as well as it can be, even the phonre records showing when she used to call are horrendous, she changed her number constantly.
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  • MrsBPOMrsBPO member
    You kind of screwed the pooch on this one, I think.  You don't need to adopt but if she'd disappeared for two years you could have had the custody order changed to give you primary based on abandonment and you could have then modified the visitation.  As it currently sits, she has custody of S if I'm reading the above correctly and therefore has a right to take S home with her.  She's back in their lives and therefore not abandoned so the cycle has to start over if you want to approach a more you-centric arrangement since you had them both for two years without a single visit from her. (iow, you lost that argument.  But you can amend the order for DH to have primary custody for both based on her past abandonment and best interest of the children to live together and know their sibling.)

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  • KaeldrasmommyKaeldrasmommy member

    imageMrsBPO:
    You kind of screwed the pooch on this one, I think.  You don't need to adopt but if she'd disappeared for two years you could have had the custody order changed to give you primary based on abandonment and you could have then modified the visitation.  As it currently sits, she has custody of S if I'm reading the above correctly and therefore has a right to take S home with her.  She's back in their lives and therefore not abandoned so the cycle has to start over if you want to approach a more you-centric arrangement since you had them both for two years without a single visit from her. (iow, you lost that argument.  But you can amend the order for DH to have primary custody for both based on her past abandonment and best interest of the children to live together and know their sibling.)
    Thank you, that's helpful. I don't know that she would actually be able to take S so far away since the kids are supposed to be together every weekend (she moved about 9 hours away), but that would probably just mean an immediate sort it out type of hearing I'm guessing.

    Unfortunately, it's pretty much another case of DH didn't get off his @ss enough to take care of things. There seems to be a lot of that here. Although, in honesty, they are disgustingly biased toward the mother in this area, so I'm not sure how much I can blame him for it.

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  • jnjmommy0609jnjmommy0609
    The judge will think he is crazy/stupid for not sticking up for the kids more. The judge will see no effort on his part. No this woman would not stand a chance. Tell your husband he needs to stand up for his kids.  
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