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Natural Birth
advice please
I know this may be the wrong board to post this on, but I've posted here previously and everyone is just so warm and nice that I don't want to go to another board and ask strangers!
I'm now 28 weeks pregnant with baby #2 and having a difficult time talking to a friend of mine. I'm typically very opinionated when I'm not pregnant, and have a difficult time holding my tongue, but add pregnancy to that mix and it gets even worse. I'm very blunt and I tell it like it is.
One of my close friends has 2 little boys. One is the same age as my son, the other is just over a year. Since her 2nd son was born she's had one miscarriage that I know of, and she also had one in between pregnancies. Last fall when she miscarried, she leaned on me for support and we talked about it, I felt absolutely horrible for her and wished desperately I could make it better. I hated watching her struggle.
Since then, she's told me that they "aren't trying to get pregnant, but also are not stopping anything from happening". She's believed she's been pregnant twice that I know of, only to get her period and she claims she thinks the fetus just couldn't latch on properly.
What I find ridiculously beyond frusterating is that she refuses to do anything about it. She has never seen her doctor about the miscarriages (but she did go to the hospital to confirm that was what was happening), refuses to go see a specialist to find out why this is happening and just claims that "if it is meant to be, it will happen". I know some people carry this mentality- and that is fine and I have no issues with that- what I find worse is that she doesn't do anything about her lifestyle to make things potentially easier. She's a huge smoker, smoked throughout both her past pregnancies, drinks alcohol like a fish several times a week and drinks insane amounts of coffee. She doesn't have the best diet, and works in a fast food resturaunt and her diet consists mostly of what she works with.
I know I have no right to judge, and I think a lot of my frustration lies with whenever we talk we can't talk about the fact that I'm pregnant without her saying "I wish I was pregnant" and then I don't have a clue what to say without coming across as blunt. I generally just steer away from talking about babies, pregnancy, etc. I know for sure that if I were in her shoes, I'd do something about my situation to either get pregnant, or avoid the devastation of miscarriage again. She doesn't discuss it when she does miscarry, she holds it inside and drinks her misery away. I did at one point gently suggest that maybe if she quit smoking and drinking (coffee and alcohol), that would make a difference. Her response was "I don't think I can do that, it would be too hard". And that made me mad, because if it were me, I'd want to give my child the best start possible. I just don't understand. There are a lot of differences between the 2 of us without this, and I just don't want our friendship to be strained because of this. I have no idea what else to say to her, and as a result we haven't spoken in a few weeks.
My husband agrees with me as well, and also has a hard time in conversation with her husband. We both find that they are just like banging our head against a wall.
Any advice would be great, and I'm sorry this is totally in the wrong board, I hope it doesn't get deleted!
This discussion has been closed.
Re: advice please
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't know what you want advice about. If you are wondering what to say to her, then I would advise you to say nothing. If this woman really wants to have another child then she will eventually come around to the possibility of seeking help. As frustrating as it is to see someone be so nonchalant about miscarriages, there's really nothing you can do to change her perspective, and nor should you try. Perhaps she really does care but doesn't know how to express it without getting too upset. As far as drinking and smoking, if she doesn't want to quit, she's not going to. No matter what you say to her. Perhaps there's more to her story than she tells you? Addiction is very very hard to overcome. Luckily I have no addictions (except maybe chocolate), and it seems like you may not either.
I think you should do your best to support her with encouraging, not demeaning, words and if/when she's ready to change her lifestyle you can be sure that she will come to you for help.
Thanks for replying!
I'm looking on how to approach this, because currently I'm at a loss. At one point she was one of my closest friends, and now I find it difficult to have a normal conversation without her saying how she wishes she was pregnant, and then I feel guilty for being pregnant around her. I feel guilty for being so angry at someone that has gone through so much loss, but after the millionth time of her saying this to me, I just don't have a response. I've been supportive, I've held her hand and hugged her and done everything I can think of. I know I can't make her change her lifestyle, and I've only ever mentioned it once. I just have started to find myself dreading our get-togethers. I'm starting to think I should just continue to sit back away from the friendship because I don't know what else to do. I'm just wondering if anyone else has been in similar shoes?
And Macy42, your right, I don't have any addictions (except for like you, chocolate!) so I have a hard time putting myself in her shoes. For me, it would be easy to give up smoking, coffee and alcohol if it meant it would be better for my child, never mind myself. But I don't even drink caffeinated drinks, so I wouldn't know!
I agree with PP, don't say anything to her. It'll just come off as you judging her, and that's not what you want.
The one thing I might comment on is in response to her comment that "quitting is too hard." Try to be a bit more understanding and supportive here. Maybe point her to some services for people trying to quit smoking, drinking, etc.
You can tell her that coffee addiction only takes 2-3 days to get over (I know this for a fact b/c I was addicted to coffee and quit when I started TTC, plus there is literature on it). So it sucks for those 2-3 days but then it's over.
Smoking and alcohol are a lot harder. I've seen several people in my life try to give up smoking (some successful, some not). It's really, really hard. I don't personally know any recovering alcoholics, but I hear that's a hard addiction to get over as well.
It's possible she doesn't actually intend to stop these things, but if it comes up again, you could at least let her know there are services to make it easier.
BFP#2: EDD 2/11/14, MMC confirmed 7/15/13 (growth stopped at 6 weeks), D&C @ 12 weeks 7/25/13
This is a hard situation and I can tell you have put a lot of thought into this, you are clearly a good friend.
Information is so readily available in today's world, that it's hard to fathom all of this hasn't already occurred to her. I wouldn't say another word about her smoking and drinking, you are just telling her what she already knows. When she says "I wish I were pregnant too" I would just say something like, "I know, I wish that for you as well" and leave it at that.
Maybe you could find something you could do that would encourage positive life changes for her while still maintaining your friendship. A couple of things pop into my head. Maybe you could start taking a fitness class together, or if childcare is an issue meet up and do some stroller fitness. Tell her you want to start doing more cooking and see if there is a healthy cooking class you could both enroll in.
I have a friend who was severely overweight and had fertility issues. Every Dr she spoke to said that while they could do various treatments (and they did) that losing weight would help her get and stay pregnant.
She tried to lose weight but none of her endeavours lasted more than two weeks. I was always supportive, offering to go for walks with her etc etc. But in the end she was eating badly, not working out and she wasn't losing weight.
So when it came down to her wishing she was pregnant, I basically nodded and let her talk. It's not my business if she's fat. There is no guarantee that a lifestyle change will ensure pregnancy, and really people have to do it for themselves.
She ultimately had gastric bypass surgery and is looking amazing and still pursuing pregnancy.
So I guess I'm saying, yes it is frustrating when you can see some obvious steps people could take to help themselves, but changing habits and lifestyle is not nearly as easy as people make it sound.
Don't say anything to your friend. Just nod and smile.
Elizabeth 5yrs old Jane 3yrs old
I really appreciate the replies, and the support. I sometimes feel like I'm talking to a wall, and to me, it seems obvious that there are so many options available to her to help with her misery, but she doesn't see it and I can't make her see it.
I'm going to back off for a little while, because I think that is best for our friendship. I have just been letting her come to me to talk, so if she needs me she knows I'm here. Anytime I have spoken to her (other then the once) I've just nodded and smiled, and I'll continue to do so. I just hope she eventually looks into doing something for herself, because as her friend I hate seeing her suffer.
I think a lot of it has to do with me being a bit of a "go-getter" and I don't believe in excuses. If you want something enough, you do whatever it takes to make it happen. While I know there are certainly exceptions to this rule, I find this friend to be HUGE on making excuses- about everything.
A friend who wishes she was pregnant?
NorCalMOMS bio* NorCalBOTB* babywearingBIO
Harmony Doula
So you said that you tend to be blunt, I'm going to be blunt as well. You don't know why she hasn't gotten pregnant or why she's miscarried. Period. The end. Would you handle things differently? Obviously, yes. Does the fact that she lives the way she does mean that she can't get or maintain a pregnancy? You have absolutely no way of knowing that. You also don't know all the reasons she hasn't pursued treatment. Pursuing treatment or diagnosis can be incredibly expensive and stressful. It's not a good option for everyone. Miscarriage is also incredibly common. It doesn't mean that there's something "wrong."
It sounds like she might be grieving her losses in her own way. Just respect that. Respect that she can make decisions for herself and her body. Don't judge and remember that YOU CAN'T judge. You have no way of knowing everything you need to know to make judgements. Your friend has had some painful experiences. She doesn't need you to fix them. She needs you to love her through them.
Now if you come back and tell me that she's drinking and smoking during pregnancy I'll tell you something different and side eye the hell out of her! But for now, this is my opinion.
This has made me feel so much better. Everyone is right, in every post. It's true I can't judge, nor do I know for sure those lifestyle changes would help her get pregnant (or hold onto a pregnancy). I know I'm not the only one that has suggested she look into why it is happening, a nurse at her family doctor has suggest it as well. We live in Canada, so going to an OB/GYN to investigate cause of miscarriage(s) wouldn't cost anything. She is like that with her children too, if they get sick she just figures they will get over it, and would rather not go to the trouble of taking the kid to the doctor. To each is own right?
She smokes throughout pregnancy and drinks alcohol while TTC right up until she takes a pregnancy test then stops. I know I have no control over it, it's just hard to watch.
I really appreciate the responses. Being a good friend isn't hard, but the circumstances here definitely put me through a loop and I felt so torn.