March 2013 Moms
The Tough Questions
What are some of the toughest ethical questions regarding pregnancy and childrearing? DH and I covered these before we decided to conceive...
1. Would we terminate if we receive significant indications of major disorders (Down syndrome, etc)?
2. Will we circumcise a male child?
3. Will we use corporal punishment on our children?
Can you guys think of other ideological issues that should be addressed pre-baby? Feel free to discuss the ethics of the issues I've raised - but fair warning: they are controversial and I'm sure there would be lots of different opinions.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: The Tough Questions
1. Absolutely not, under any condition, but especially not for something like down syndrome where your child will actully live a happy life. I've been in this situation with a fatal diagnosis and carrying my daughter was the best decision of my life.
2. Yes. My brother is not circumcised and he has been self conscious about it his whole life. My mom feels really guilty about not havin it done. Plus, DH is circumcised.
3. No
1. I think it's impossible to answer until you're in a specific situation. I have heard of people who have gone both ways with that and I respect the decisions they had to make. I don't think I would be able to make that kind of choice theoretically.
2. We did circumcise my son. We felt very guilty when it was done, but now we are glad.
3. No. Not our style.
Everyone has a different opinion on these questions, and they are choices you have to make for what works best for your family.
For us personally...
1. We would not terminate, but I have never been in that situation. I pray I wouldn't have to make that difficult decision.
2. Yes. We did with DS and it was no big deal at all. He slept through the entire thing. Our hospital uses a little plastic ring that falls off after a few days.
3. No.
We would never terminate for downs syndrome. I am a special education teacher and there is absolutely no reason to even consider it.
However, when we found out our daughter (second pregnancy) had an excessive cystic hygroma and extreme fetal hydrops we were asked to make a decision on terminating the pregnancy. We never had to make a decision as she was taken from us early but it was one of the most unbearable decisions I've ever contemplated. Our child had no quality of life and would not make it to live outside the womb, but I couldn't give up hope either. It is a very loaded question I pray each night no one has to go through.
5 Angels
We have spoken about all of these issues. Others that have come up are selective reduction as well as what to do with our remaining embryos. We conceived through IVF and had to make some tough decisions about what would happen to our embryos. We never had frozen embryos until now. I have three snowbabies and am currently pregnant with one. I cant imagine not giving these guys a chance at life after all I went through to get here and get them. But DH and I did not envision having 4 kids. So we decided to stick to one at a time and cross that bridge when we come to it.
Also sometimes vaccinations are a tough decision too.
Here's where DH and I landed on the these issues.
1. Yes, we would terminate. Hope we're never in that situation, but if we were, we would elect not to have the child.
2. This one I left completely up to DH, since he has much more experience having a penis than I do. He would choose to circumcise.
3. Nope. Studies have shown that violence is not an effective way to discipline a child.
Good questions!
Personally, I don't view embryos as having special moral/ethical significance, so this probably wouldn't be a big issue for me, though I can see how it would be for some people.
And vaccinations! I'd actually seriously side-eye parents who refuse to vaccinate their children because it decreases herd immunity and potentially poses a threat to people beyond themselves.
What are some of the toughest ethical questions regarding pregnancy and childrearing?
What are you plans for breastfeeding vs. bottle feeding and for how long?
Where will our children sleep?
When do we feel "okay" leaving our children in someone else's care?
What kind of education do we want our children to have?
What faith tradition are we going to raise our children in and how will that look in our house?
What are our plans for birth?
ETA: Yes, definitely vaccinations is a hot topic
1. Would we terminate if we receive significant indications of major disorders (Down syndrome, etc)? No. God creates life and he takes it away. It's not our decision to make. I also believe that God doesn't give you more than you can handle.
2. Will we circumcise a male child? We'll cross this bridge when we get to it. I can easily see both sides of the issue.
3. Will we use corporal punishment on our children? No. I don't think good comes of teaching a child to fear harm from their parents. It's our job to make them feel safe; hitting them doesn't make them feel safe. There must be better ways.
What are you plans for breastfeeding vs. bottle feeding and for how long? It is very important to me to breastfeed as long as both baby and I are happy. If that means feeding in to toddlerhood, so be it. And I don't care if people think it's "weird" or "gross." My boobs, my child we decide what is best for us.
Where will our children sleep? In the same room as us; we only have a 1 bedroom place anyway.
When do we feel "okay" leaving our children in someone else's care? We'll cross it when we get there, but I'm thinking not until at least 6 months to a year. We also just moved to the area and don't have a strong network; all of our family lives at least 5 hours away.
What kind of education do we want our children to have? We are seriously contemplating home schooling. I'm not a fan of the school systems here or the approach taken in lots of parochial schools.
What faith tradition are we going to raise our children in and how will that look in our house? We'll raise our kids Catholic, but it is important to me that they understand Catholic Social Teaching. Loving another is seeing the face of God.
What are our plans for birth? We are planning a med-free natural birth with midwives at a free-standing birth center. (I can't wait!!!!)
ETA: Yes, definitely vaccination is a hot topic I think we will choose to vaccinate, but we will probably do them on a delayed schedule. I'm still doing a lot of research about it, in particular into the diseases and the ingredients in the vaccines. Lots of vaccines contain some metals that are tough on a little person's body. Delaying doesn't mean they DON'T get vaccinated it just means they get them over a longer period of time, so there is less of a chance of a reaction and it is easier to pin point and treat a reaction if one does occur.Sooooo if you couldn't tell by now: I'm a bit hippie-crunchy-granola... just a bit...
Excellent questions! DH and I have addressed some of them.
I think breast/bottle feeding should be primarily the mother's decision, since she's the one whose body is physically affected.
We haven't discussed sleeping arrangements, but the idea of co-sleeping makes me uncomfortable.
If everything goes as planned, we'll be leaving the child with my MIL at 6 weeks. I'd love to not have someone else watch the baby, but that's not reality for us right now.
Public schools in our community our very good, and I have no problem sending him/her to them.
DH and I are not religious, therefore we will not be taking a child to church.
No clue with birth plans, although I think this is primarily mother's call. I'm considering natural childbirth (with no small amount of terror).
With vaccinations - ARE there legitimate reasons for not vaccinating? The autism links have been pretty widely disproven, and it seems like the potential side effects are minuscule compared to actually contracting some of the diseases. I'm asking this with genuine curiosity.
Edit for clarity, also: Interesting about the metals, LiteraryFoodie. What is the potential effect on the child?
As for vaccinations, some kids can have really bad reactions to them as in getting violently sick, impairing speech and motor skills, mental retardation. I've read some stories that are pretty tough to stomach. However, I also recognize that these are in the minority not the majority. As I said, I'm still doing lots of research so that we can make the best decision for our family. As for the specifics on the metals, honestly, I'd have to go back and check. My general take away was heavy metals (like mercury)=not good for a baby. I've only just started researching this, but some of the resources I am or will be consulting are:
"The Vaccine Book" by Dr. Robert Sears
"What Your Doctor Won't Tell You About Childhood Vaccinations" by Dr. Stephanie Cave.
"Naturally Healthy Babies and Children" by Aviva Jill Romm.
"Vaccine Safety Manual for Concerned Families and Health Practitioners: Guide to Immunization Risks and Protection" by Neil Z. Miller and Russell Blaylock, M.D
as well as the CDC database
So far, I don't really see the harm in delaying. They'll get all the shots they need by the time they are toddlers and since we aren't going to be sending them to daycare or other programs where the risk of exposure is high before they are toddlers, it just give me a little bit more peace of mind that we'd be able to catch something more easily if there was an issue. But honestly, my mind still is open and is not totally made up, I still have a lot of reading to do! :-)
1. I don't categorize down syndrome as a major disorder- there is still great quality of life there. Even so, my nephew was diagnosed with Trisomy 18 and his parents decided to terminate the pregnancy. My husband and I discussed what we would do in the situation that our child was given nearly 0% chance of survival and we still wouldn't terminate the pregnancy. We are religious though so we feel if God leads you to it he will lead you through it and that there must be some reason that we were blessed with such a child.
2. We circumcised our son. We will for subsequent children. This topic gets debated highly on the boards. I don't care what anyone else does, I think it's a decision that couples need to weigh the pros and cons, as well as look at their religious customs, and decide on their own.
3. No. We are very much into gentle parenting. That doesn't mean that we won't raise our voices if our child is in danger or putting someone else in danger or that our children won't have consequences for their actions. (This is how many of our older family members see gentle parenting)
A big one for us recently has been savings for baby- how much college do we plan to pay for? How much will we save for them every year? Are their stipulations on how the money is spent? For us, the money we got in taxes for the baby went into municipal bonds for him and all money we have gotten has gone into savings for him. For holidays money will be split three ways- spend, save, charity. They will be able to use their savings for larger purchases- such as a laptop for high school or a car at 16 or they can continue to save it. We will bay 50% of all college courses that an A or B is received in.
You're welcome!!!
Mh and I discussed this a lot too. We don't feel it is necessary to pay for our child's college education. We both paid for ours and it was rather character building. However, if we can help our children not be burned with a ton of debt than we will do what we can. I feel like it's more important to have real and honest discussions about money and financial planning with our kids, so that they can also make the decision that is best for them both in finding a school that is a good fit and that is a good financial decision.
Are you familiar with Dave Ramsey? He has a lot of great tools for saving for kids college and talking with kids about money. It's been really helpful for MH and me (esp. since we don't have great models in our parents for dealing with money)
Thank you so much for all the vaccine research options!! This is something I'm so on the fence about but I definitely want to be well-informed and make my own decision (along with DH, of course). Also, all your previous answers basically sound exactly like mine so I second everything you said
I'm quite the "crunchy" gal myself!
2. Will we circumcise a male child? yes.
3. Will we use corporal punishment on our children? No
What are you plans for breastfeeding vs. bottle feeding and for how long? I plan to breast and bottle like I did last time. I gave breastfeeding and milk 10 months with my first
Where will our children sleep? My first son was in our room for 16 months, and we plan 6 months for #2
When do we feel "okay" leaving our children in someone else's care? With grandparents right away. We did outside neighborhood babysitter around 6 months.
What kind of education do we want our children to have? public for now, but private may be an option too.
What faith tradition are we going to raise our children in and how will that look in our house? We plan to raise him Methodist
What are our plans for birth? Repeat c-section
vaccination: yes and delayed like we did with #1
1. Would we terminate if we receive significant indications of major disorders (Down syndrome, etc)? No. I would want to treasure every second with our baby for as long as God trusted us to hold him/her.
2. Will we circumcise a male child? We did with our first and I instantly regretted it. Dh is. But our second son and future sons won't be. I plan on talking to my oldest someday and explain to him why I feel that I made an error. It's been a long time, but I finally stopped feeling tremendously guilty about it. I think bottom line, no matter what decision you make, get educated about WHY you want to, and possible negatives to both sides.
3. Will we use corporal punishment on our children? We do spank. Not a lot, but we do.
What are you plans for breastfeeding vs. bottle feeding and for how long? We exclusively breastfeed. Our babies get 100% breastmilk for the first 5ish months, and then just tastes of appropriate food until THEY start pushing for meals, which in our experience has been closer to 18m (and even longer with our first who had oral sensory issues-he was a 30lb almost exclusively bf 2yo). We wean at 3y9m. So I've bf through all but my first pg, and I've tandemed with 1&2, 2&3, and 3&4. And I'll tandem again.
Where will our children sleep? In my bed for the first 2 years. In my room for another year or two. When my 1yo dd is ready to sleep with her big sister, we'll split our kids up and have the boys in one room and girls in the other. For now though, my 1yo sleeps with us, and my 3yo sleeps in our room.
When do we feel "okay" leaving our children in someone else's care? Family talked me into leaving #1 at 10 days old for an hour lunch with dh. I hated it. I'm not made to be away from my babies. With #4, things went much more the way I prefer. At 18mo, I've left her with dh probably a dozen times, and never with anyone else. She's going to start trying out the church nursery soon though, and we're hoping that she'll handle us going to a movie next month. For me, I don't have this stifling sense of imprisonment when I take my baby everywhere. I feel whole. And I don't miss going places that I can't take her.
What kind of education do we want our children to have? We homeschool. We're talking about public school for high school...that's fairly likely. We're considering junior high too, but I'm not sure. That may end up being a part time situation-where they do core subjects at home and fun subjects at school. We'll see. And it'll be up to them too. If they want to stay home, they can, and they'll probably start college courses early.
What faith tradition are we going to raise our children in and how will that look in our house? We're Christian. Our faith is at the forefront of every decision we make.
What are our plans for birth? A med-free home birth. #1 was a planned med-free hospital birth, but no one respected me or dh and it was a horrible experience. The other 3 have been the absolutely most amazing experiences of my life, just peaceful and at home (peaceful doesn't mean painfree---it hurt, but it was SO nice being at home!). After #4 I got up off the floor, cleaned up, and made breakfast for my kids. It was just perfect.
ETA: Yes, definitely vaccination is a hot topic We don't vaccinate anymore. We did with #1 until he was 2 (always opting out of the chicken pox vaccine (our reasoning at the time was that 1 in 1000 experience seizures with the shot...that risk is way too high for us)...I've had shingles (stress induced...while pg with #3)) and it wasn't that bad once I started massive amounts of garlic and rubbing down the spots with apple cider vinegar (doesn't sting, it takes the itch away). After doing the research, we feel like the risk of vaccinating isn't worth it.