2nd Trimester

Semantics of gender

Alright guys, explain this to me, because I still don't get it.

One of my parents is transgendered. Had gender re-assignment surgery, because he was born with a gender he did not identify with. But it was, indeed, his gender. If I am understanding the word choice of preference on this board correctly, it's considered more correct to refer to a baby's "sex" and not "gender..." but they are indeed assigned a gender at birth, right? It's just a question of identifying with that gender or not? Am I missing something?
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Re: Semantics of gender

  • Sex is biological. You are a male or a female. Gender is a social construct, in which you can identify as being more masculine or feminine. So your parent was born one sex and identified more with the opposite gender traits so had a sex change operation. That has always been my understanding of it/how it was explained to me in sociology classes....I hope it makes sense.
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  • Ah, social construct. Thanks for the clarification. I'd seen the issue raised in multiple threads but didn't want to de-rail them. I guess in my household the distinction was never made, so I wasn't sensitive to it. Maybe I shouldn't have skipped sociology in school.
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  • Sex refers to the anatomy of the person for example when you are born you have a vagina or a penis. Gender itself is a social construct. It is how one identifies with being male or female. Gender encompasses more of the social and societal aspects of male and female.

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  • For some reason, people who say they're finding out the 'gender' of their baby are flamed (burn bitches burn!) because it's SEX not GENDER, right? In my opinion, that's like somebody freaking out (I know, an exaggeration) because you said you have five fingers, when really you have four fingers and a thumb. haha

    One thing I would like to point out is that everyone gets pissed on for saying gender instead of sex, but those women will turn around and have a gender reveal party, or a gender announcement photo. haha It's silly. :)

    Obviously when you say you found out the gender of your baby, you mean whether or not they have a penis or vagina. I find it unnecessary to go out of your way to correct that person, when you should just be congratulating them. :P  

    I'll probably get flamed for saying all that though. Bring it on! >:D harharhar

    PS I like to say gender, because when I say sex I giggle like a dirty minded freak and people look at my funny! :P 

  • The terminology for treatment (gender reassignment surgery/therapy) was really tripping me up. But now that I think about it a little more, I guess a transition is often a combination both of therapy "between the ears" and "between the legs" so the term is appropriate, albeit confusing for me.
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  • imageNericole:

    For some reason, people who say they're finding out the 'gender' of their baby are flamed because it's SEX not GENDER, right? In my opinion, that's like somebody freaking out because you said you have five fingers, when really you have four fingers and a thumb. haha

    One thing I would like to point out is that everyone gets pissed on for saying gender instead of sex, but those women will turn around and have a gender reveal party, or a gender announcement photo. haha It's silly.

    Obviously when you say you found out the gender of your baby, you mean whether or not they have a penis or vagina. I find it unnecessary to go out of your way to correct that person, when you should just be congratulating them. :P  

    I'll probably get flamed for saying all that though. Bring it on! >:D harharhar

    PS I like to say gender, because when I say sex I giggle like a dirty minded freak and people look at my funny! :P 

     

    FWIW, I wouldn't comment on a person saying they found out it's a girl/boy and neither would my step-dad. But, when I found out it was a girl, one of my first thoughts was, "I hope she's as happy about that as I am." At the same time, most people are satisfied with what they've been assigned, so I don't blame people for not pausing to reflect on that.

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  • imageICarriedAWatermelon:
    Good on OP for being sensitive/cognizant of the issue. And, comments about giggling when saying the word sex aside, I think we're keeping it civil and adult in here today!

    For obvious reasons, I am fairly sensitive to trans issues, and would consider myself a trans rights proponent, which is why I was left scratching my head about the distinction being drawn around here. I thought had nothing new to learn in the world of trans sensitivity. Goes to show!

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  • For obvious reasons, I am fairly sensitive to trans issues, and would consider myself a trans rights proponent, which is why I was left scratching my head about the distinction being drawn around here. I thought had nothing new to learn in the world of trans sensitivity. Goes to show!

    You got me thinking about something else that has to do with this. You mentioned before about gender reassignment surgery. It seems like it would be more correct to say sexual reassignment surgery, because it's their sex that is changing to match their gender, right? I'm not sure if I'm wording this idea correctly, it kind of confuses me even in my head haha.

    Basically, they're not changing their gender, they're changing their sex to correspond with their gender? 

  • imageNericole:

    For obvious reasons, I am fairly sensitive to trans issues, and would consider myself a trans rights proponent, which is why I was left scratching my head about the distinction being drawn around here. I thought had nothing new to learn in the world of trans sensitivity. Goes to show!

    You got me thinking about something else that has to do with this. You mentioned before about gender reassignment surgery. It seems like it would be more correct to say sexual reassignment surgery, because it's their sex that is changing to match their gender, right? I'm not sure if I'm wording this idea correctly, it kind of confuses me even in my head haha.

    Basically, they're not changing their gender, they're changing their sex to correspond with their gender? 

    Well if a transgendered person only had sex organ surgery, I guess that might make sense. But transitioning is often a lot more than that: course of hormones, changing your breast tissue, facial surgeries... I don't know exactly how that fits into the WHO definitions above, but the term "sex change" doesn't really cover it, if you think of one's "sex" as being determined by one's sex organs only. So, if that is the technical definition, I guess the term "sex reassignment surgery" is a lot more limited in scope than I previously understood, and "gender reassignment therapy" would be the whole world of treatments beyond mere sex reassignment.

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  • imageDelBride2012:
    imageNericole:

    For obvious reasons, I am fairly sensitive to trans issues, and would consider myself a trans rights proponent, which is why I was left scratching my head about the distinction being drawn around here. I thought had nothing new to learn in the world of trans sensitivity. Goes to show!

    You got me thinking about something else that has to do with this. You mentioned before about gender reassignment surgery. It seems like it would be more correct to say sexual reassignment surgery, because it's their sex that is changing to match their gender, right? I'm not sure if I'm wording this idea correctly, it kind of confuses me even in my head haha.

    Basically, they're not changing their gender, they're changing their sex to correspond with their gender? 

    Well if a transgendered person only had sex organ surgery, I guess that might make sense. But transitioning is often a lot more than that: course of hormones, changing your breast tissue, facial surgeries... I don't know exactly how that fits into the WHO definitions above, but the term "sex change" doesn't really cover it, if you think of one's "sex" as being determined by one's sex organs only. So, if that is the technical definition, I guess the term "sex reassignment surgery" is a lot more limited in scope than I previously understood, and "gender reassignment therapy" would be the whole world of treatments beyond mere sex reassignment.

    Well I thought sex only referred to the biological aspect and gender referred to social/psychological aspect. Changing the genitalia/breasts/hormone output is strictly biological, therefore a change in sex alone. They are essentially changing the outside to match the inside, right? I don't know a lot about transgenders, but from what I've heard, that's the general consensus with reassignment surgery. 

    They're already at that particular gender, and they're changing their bits to match. 

  • Yikes. I really don't know. I personally know four people in some stage of transition and up until I got to TB I never had any reason to think "gender reassignment" and "sex reassignment" were distinguishable. I've heard them used interchangeably my whole life. But I can see how, on this narrow topic of reassignment, the terms may be interchangeable, when they would not be interchangeable in other contexts.
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  • Words are words, and many are interchangeable, even when not politically correct. :P It's confusing when you think about it too hard! Haha.  

  • I guess another way to put it is that your transgender parent associated with being a woman (gender). When her sex changed she was still a woman, she changed it because she was a woman all along, right? She didn't change from a man to a woman as far as gender is concerned, only from a man to a woman as far as sex is concerned.
  • I agree with PP about sex vs gender. 

    I still use the term "gender check" as far as ultrasounds go, because that is what they are called in the office. 

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  • imageNericole:
    I guess another way to put it is that your transgender parent associated with being a woman (gender). When her sex changed she was still a woman, she changed it because she was a woman all along, right? She didn't change from a man to a woman as far as gender is concerned, only from a man to a woman as far as sex is concerned.

    You've got it backwards, stepdad is a man now. But anyway, he would say he changed his gender, and so do my other trans friends.  

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  • I am a social worker and when I was in school we attended a great seminar with a transgendered man who basically said "Gender is in the head, sex is in the pants". So your anatomy in your pants dictates your sex and how you feel in your mind dictates your gender. 
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  • imageNericole:

    For some reason, people who say they're finding out the 'gender' of their baby are flamed (burn bitches burn!) because it's SEX not GENDER, right? In my opinion, that's like somebody freaking out (I know, an exaggeration) because you said you have five fingers, when really you have four fingers and a thumb. haha

    One thing I would like to point out is that everyone gets pissed on for saying gender instead of sex, but those women will turn around and have a gender reveal party, or a gender announcement photo. haha It's silly. :)

    Obviously when you say you found out the gender of your baby, you mean whether or not they have a penis or vagina. I find it unnecessary to go out of your way to correct that person, when you should just be congratulating them. :P  

    I'll probably get flamed for saying all that though. Bring it on! >:D harharhar

    PS I like to say gender, because when I say sex I giggle like a dirty minded freak and people look at my funny! :P 

     

    I wish the bump had a "like" feature like facebook. If it did I would like this. I understand that by definition gender means what you identify with and sex means the organs. But the majority of us, when we find out the babies sex start gender identifying our child because for several years they can't tell us what they "will" be so my baby boy will have lots of blue. And I am sure many of your baby girls will have lots of pink. So I am glad you posted this! :) 

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