MammaBear81

LovelyLou23 · June 2012

You mentioned in an earlier post about believing in that the type and commitment of your parenting style has everything to do with dealing with 2u2. I'm really curious to know what this has meant for you and your family. I'm the person that wants to learn from others because I can't live long enough to make all the mistakes myself. So if that's not too personal of a question, I'd love to know your thoughts

MammaBear81 · June 2012

I'm not sure that I 100% understand the question posed, but I'll take a shot, and if it's not what you are looking for then feel free to ask me more questions.

This is my experiences as being a parent, friend, and childcare worker for many years. The stuff I'm mentioning isn't just for "2 under 2," the issues just become apparent very quickly because there are two young children and parents morals and values are put to the test a lot more often.

When I think about commitment to parenting, I'm talking about sticking to your values and not changing them when you have a second, third, etc. You don't have to share my philosophies, or do what I do, but whatever it is, do it 100% of the time. If you were a babywearing parent, then plan on wearing both of them, don't change your mind because it's "too hard" now. If you BF your first child, you should do the same for your others (obviously if there is some medical issue this will differ).,. The list goes on and on... Some parents give up when they realize that they need to follow through every time, and then try to justify why they gave up "I can't BF LO#2 because I have a toddler running around".

It bothers me to no end when people say "let the laundry go, you will catch up" or "who cares what the house looks like, it will be fine". Because the laundry will NEVER do itself, and your house isn't from Beauty and the Beast and it won't clean itself. People don't realize how much time they waste looking for something when if they just took 5 seconds to put it away the last time they used it, it would be there the next time. Make a plan to get everything done and stick to it. Yes there will be days that everything goes to he!! in a hand basket, but when you set goals, more often than not you will get most if not all of it done. "Adjust your expectations" is another one that makes me want to scratch my eyes out. If you can't/won't give all of your children your all, then maybe you should rethink your family size, or the spacing between kids.

Talking about type of parenting. I am a typical "A type" personality, I like to plan things, and prepare for every outcome possible so when the sh!t hits the fan I don't lose it. While that way works for me, it is not the only way to successfully parent, I'm not a "my way or the highway" person (except when dealing with my family). "Types" that I find that do not work so well have been parents that subscribe to "go with the flow" style. Generally because it's not easy to get two babies to "go to the same flow" unless you make it that way (and then you aren't really going with the flow anymore). On the other hand, parents that take EVERYONE else's advice and over think everything instead of becoming informed for themselves also have a very hard time. They get conflicting information from different people and are constantly changing their parenting style, which creates instability, and is reflected in the children's behavior.

For the record, I didn't just "happen" to get 5 well behaved children, I made them that way.

Some rules I live by:

Don't put it down, put it away.

Never underestimate the power of a plan.

You get what you get and you don't get upset.

There are 24 hours in a day, 8 for work, 8 for sleep, and 8 for children and house stuff- yes, it is all possible. If you don't work, then you've got another 8 hours in the day to play with your kids.

Say things in a positive way "walk" instead of "don't run"- "nice touches to the dog" rather than "stop hitting the dog"- telling your child the behavior you WANT really goes a long way.

Don't "pick your battles" if it's not an acceptable thing to do when your child is 10, it's not acceptable now (taking into consideration what is developmentally appropriate at the time. For example you would not expect a 1 year old to drink from a cup) If it is not OK for your 10 year old to wear PJ's to school, your 2 year old shouldn't be told that they can. Children only get bigger, and once bad habits form they are harder to break the older they get.

You can handle a lot more than you think you can- just keep moving and you WILL do it.

Disclaimer: I know that special needs children are a completely different ball game. Although I've been through children with ST, OT, PT and low percentile weights, I have only dealt with Downs Syndrome, Autism, and other disabilities in a working environment. A lot of the times children with mental and physical disabilities require different kind of care. I don't categorize"high needs" or "high maintenance" babies as Special Needs, they have normal mental and physical capabilities.

Sorry for the long post, I wish I could have been more concise with my answer. If you read it all here's a drink! Drinks I apologize for any typo's or repetition, it's past my bedtime!

kcisthebombdotcom · June 2012

In regards to your disclaimer: many infants who are "high needs/high maintenance" go on to be later diagnosed with a disorder that isn't identifiable in infancy. I get where you're going with that and are implying that parents create high needs/maintenance children through parenting and I agree with you in certain cases, but definitely not always.

In regards to some of your other advice..I don't know if I'm fully on board. Sure, I agree with having goals of what should be done because you will accomplish more if you do set goals. However, I think what one is able to do in a 24 hour day with a 1 year old and a 1 month old is a whole lot different than when you have a 2.5 and 1.5 year old. My house was in shambles when my kids were both small. Could I have accomplished more if I set my mind to get everything done? Probably. At what cost though? I think lying in my recliner with my 14 month old and my 2 month old while I tried to get some rest from little sleep trumped getting that extra load of laundry done at that point in time. Those memories are more valuable than having a perfectly maintained house would have ever been. Now they're older and they give me more down time because they can entertain each other/ are more self-sufficient than when they were brand new so the house is neat again. For me, adjusting my expectations allowed me to enjoy the time more than setting a goal to have everything just as perfect as it was the day before my 2nd child came home. I think being rigid and not being able to change something that sounded good theoretically but just doesn't work for your family when the time comes only creates lots of feelings of stress and disappointment in life. I don't really know how people who adjust expectations mean they're not giving their kids their all. On the contrary, I prioritized making sure my kids got lots of 1 on 1 attention when they were both small vs getting an extra load of laundry done.

Your advice on "pick your battles" is kind of interesting to me. My SIL is very similiar to you and told me I'd be eating crow when my kids were older and I was trying to break all those "bad habits" I let my kids have when they were small, like keeping a pacifier past two and bedsharing. Well, when I got there those battles weren't as bad as I intended them to be. Actually, there weren't any battles at all. So yes, picking my battles paid off for me big time with 2u2 and made my life easier for a big window of time than if I tried to force what I wanted on my kids. I think people forget how flexible and adaptable kids really are. If my 10 year old wants to go to school in pajamas so be it. When he gets ridiculed for his wardrobe choice, he will learn the lesson on his own without me saying "you have to wear this because I said so". I am all for certain non-negotiable rules like using manners and not hitting others. Other things like wardrobe choices I am more than willing to pick my battles over.

I suppose it depends on what your goals as a parent. I am not aiming to have perfectly behaved children who listen 100% of the time because what I says goes and that's it, so your advice isn't really applicable to someone like me.

MammaBear81 · June 2012

KC_13:

In regards to some of your other advice..I don't know if I'm fully on board. Sure, I agree with having goals of what should be done because you will accomplish more if you do set goals. However, I think what one is able to do in a 24 hour day with a 1 year old and a 1 month old is a whole lot different than when you have a 2.5 and 1.5 year old. My house was in shambles when my kids were both small. Could I have accomplished more if I set my mind to get everything done? Probably. At what cost though?
I never said what time or when the laundry needed to be done. My point there was that "letting the house go" sets you up for being overwhelmed and then having a breakdown as so many posts before us have mentioned. If you keep pushing the housework until "later" it isn't going to get done. Don't leave your 1 month old crying on the floor because you have to do the dishes, but set aside time in your day (say 8pm "ish") that you will do the dishes and put them away. Dealing with work as it comes is much less overwhelming than waiting until it's unbearable to deal with.
I think lying in my recliner with my 14 month old and my 2 month old while I tried to get some rest from little sleep trumped getting that extra load of laundry done at that point in time. Those memories are more valuable than having a perfectly maintained house would have ever been. Now they're older and they give me more down time because they can entertain each other/ are more self-sufficient than when they were brand new so the house is neat again.
I disagree with this, I think all time with your child is priceless, no "part" is more important than another. Which goes along with my reasoning that no part of having kids is "harder" than any other, it's just different. For example, newborns sleep a lot of the time, this gives you time to relax, get stuff done, etc. As they get older they sleep less, but they become self entertaining, also they sleep for longer stretches which also allows you to get more things done at once. I am the type of person that does most of the housework when my kids are asleep. Every moment that they are awake (and that I'm home, because I work) is time I want to spent with them. Something like laundry which is more of an all day event, all the clothes are presorted because we have different baskets, so a quick reminder to throw in or switch loads through out the day isn't a big deal, then I will fold/put away after the kids go to bed. I don't advocate cleaning your house over spending time with your children, but it is very easy to go all day and then realize that you have piles of stuff to take care of (not to mention bill collectors want to be paid on time) so stuff like that can't wait until your kids get older.
For me, adjusting my expectations allowed me to enjoy the time more than setting a goal to have everything just as perfect as it was the day before my 2nd child came home. I think being rigid and not being able to change something that sounded good theoretically but just doesn't work for your family when the time comes only creates lots of feelings of stress and disappointment in life. I don't really know how people who adjust expectations mean they're not giving their kids their all. On the contrary, I prioritized making sure my kids got lots of 1 on 1 attention when they were both small vs getting an extra load of laundry done.
When I mentioned adjusting your expectations I'm talking about not doing stuff with your second child because "now you have two it's too hard." I hate when the younger child gets "shafted", I've never ran into the problem of not offering the same opportunities to my younger children as I have the older ones.

Your advice on "pick your battles" is kind of interesting to me. My SIL is very similiar to you and told me I'd be eating crow when my kids were older and I was trying to break all those "bad habits" I let my kids have when they were small, like keeping a pacifier past two and bedsharing. Well, when I got there those battles weren't as bad as I intended them to be. Actually, there weren't any battles at all. So yes, picking my battles paid off for me big time with 2u2 and made my life easier for a big window of time than if I tried to force what I wanted on my kids. I think people forget how flexible and adaptable kids really are. If my 10 year old wants to go to school in pajamas so be it. When he gets ridiculed for his wardrobe choice, he will learn the lesson on his own without me saying "you have to wear this because I said so". I am all for certain non-negotiable rules like using manners and not hitting others. Other things like wardrobe choices I am more than willing to pick my battles over.
I can't stand the "because I said so" reasoning either. The rules in our house are what is expected of someone, and there are reasons behind them, not one rule is "because I said so". That being said one of my rules (phrasing things in a positive manor) helps explain why we do what we do. "We take our shoes off when we get inside so we do not track dirt on the floor", "Clear your dishes to the sink so your space is ready for your next meal (or dessert!)" I don't expect my kids to learn that you do something "just because", the way to learn appropriate behavior is to model it and explain the right thing to do. Things you mentioned (like bed sharing, and pacifiers) have a developmental component to them which is something I mentioned you have to take into account.

I suppose it depends on what your goals as a parent. I am not aiming to have perfectly behaved children who listen 100% of the time because what I says goes and that's it, so your advice isn't really applicable to someone like me.
I'd hope that everyone's goals as a parent are the same, to raise healthy well rounded, self sufficient children. My kids aren't perfect, nor do I expect them to be, but showing them good habits from a young age goes a long way. I do expect them to listen to me, and when they listen they learn, and when they learn, they can make decisions on their own.
If you don't expect your child to listen to you when you talk, what happens when you say "STOP" and they don't listen, run into the road and get hit by a car? I don't talk just to talk, I talk to be understood.

bellelamb · June 2012

Thanks ladies for sharing, while I whe heartedly agree with some things said and disagree with others it has given me a lot to think about. Thank you

kcisthebombdotcom · June 2012

Thanks for clarifying some of what you meant, Mammabear. I find I agree with a lot of what you say--it was just your delivery of your first message. I think pushing the idea of be rigid in your plans without compromise/the house wont clean itself so always maintain it/don't adjust your expectations is setting up 2u2 moms to fail/be a whole lot more stressed out about the whole situation.

I'm glad you mentioned that the whole "don't adjust your expectations" was referring to what you did with your older child before your younger child came. I wholeheartedly agree with that. If you let yourself get crippled with fear that you can't go out with both kids alone (barring some medical condition that makes it impossible to take your youngest out) you're not going to succeed. With practice and time it becomes a whole lot easier.

That's great that you could stay up late and get housework done. When you have two small babies that are rotating getting up in the middle of the night that's not necessarily the priority in the moment. Sure, babies sleep a lot...during the day. I think housework is one of those things you need to "adjust your expectations" in the early months. Sure, you want to keep up with dishes so your kids aren't being exposed to moldy food sitting on the counter and you want to pay your bills of course. But if your bedroom floor is covered with stacks of clean laundry/your laundry room is filled with dirty laundry, is that going to matter in the grand scheme of things?

LovelyLou23 · June 2012

Wow, thank you so much, MammaBear! That was a killer response! Sorry I'm just now getting back to this...

It sounds like you and I are a lot alike. I've always dreamed of having many children (pg with second now), but there are times that I wonder if I can handle the madness. I'm very much a Type A, and I like my house to be clean and tidy-ed up. So when there are messes and things un-kept for an extended period of time, it stresses me out.

Anyway, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for all of this. I will never claim that I know it all, so i hope to always learn from those more experienced than me!

and thanks for the drink offer...my drink of choice is coffee, which i'm sipping on right now

MammaBear81 · June 2012

KC_13:
Thanks for clarifying some of what you meant, Mammabear. I find I agree with a lot of what you say--it was just your delivery of your first message. I think pushing the idea of be rigid in your plans without compromise/the house wont clean itself so always maintain it/don't adjust your expectations is setting up 2u2 moms to fail/be a whole lot more stressed out about the whole situation.

I'm glad you mentioned that the whole "don't adjust your expectations" was referring to what you did with your older child before your younger child came. I wholeheartedly agree with that. If you let yourself get crippled with fear that you can't go out with both kids alone (barring some medical condition that makes it impossible to take your youngest out) you're not going to succeed. With practice and time it becomes a whole lot easier.

That's great that you could stay up late and get housework done. When you have two small babies that are rotating getting up in the middle of the night that's not necessarily the priority in the moment. Sure, babies sleep a lot...during the day. I think housework is one of those things you need to "adjust your expectations" in the early months. Sure, you want to keep up with dishes so your kids aren't being exposed to moldy food sitting on the counter and you want to pay your bills of course. But if your bedroom floor is covered with stacks of clean laundry/your laundry room is filled with dirty laundry, is that going to matter in the grand scheme of things?

Glad we agree on some things! I also agree that having stacks of clean or dirty laundry isn't going to matter in the "grand scheme of life" but I guess the way I think about it is that it's going to take you the same amount of time, no matter when you do it. I'd rather fold laundry for 10 minutes a day then have to sit there for 70 minutes on Sunday getting it all done at once. I think my type A personality comes out in this case especially; because I am an organized person I'd rather have the clothes put away (we have an organizer that has outfits for the week) so I can find extra clothes quickly, rather than searching through a huge pile of clothes. When doing loads I put everyone's clothes together, only separating, lights, darks, white etc. which, as a whole, speeds up the laundry process tremendously, but if it doesn't get put away you lose a lot of time searching for what you need.

My kids go to bed at 8, I do housework for maybe an hour, have an hour of "me time" and am in bed around 10pm (unless I get sucked into a Dance Moms or Suits marathon), I'm not sure if that's considered "late" or not.

When I had LO's that didn't SSTN yet, I'd nurse and put to sleep at 8, do my two hour "chores/me time" and be ready to nurse again at 10/11 (whenever they woke up) and then I would go to bed after that nursing. The way I see it is that I wasn't going to go to bed until 10 anyway, but to each his own!

Maybe a better question is how many hours do people spend doing housework? Maybe my house is smaller than everyone else's? I wholeheartedly admit I haven't dusted in ages, but the house is picked up and clean.

MammaBear81 · June 2012

LovelyLou23:
Wow, thank you so much, MammaBear! That was a killer response! Sorry I'm just now getting back to this...
It sounds like you and I are a lot alike. I've always dreamed of having many children (pg with second now), but there are times that I wonder if I can handle the madness. I'm very much a Type A, and I like my house to be clean and tidy-ed up. So when there are messes and things un-kept for an extended period of time, it stresses me out.
Anyway, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for all of this. I will never claim that I know it all, so i hope to always learn from those more experienced than me!
and thanks for the drink offer...my drink of choice is coffee, which i'm sipping on right now

Enjoy your coffee, glad I could help Big Smile

P.S.- No one "knows it all" (I have a lot of experience, but I don't have all the answers) and if they think they do, they probably don't know much! Stick out tongue

kcisthebombdotcom · June 2012

MammaBear81:
KC_13:

Thanks for clarifying some of what you meant, Mammabear. I find I agree with a lot of what you say--it was just your delivery of your first message. I think pushing the idea of be rigid in your plans without compromise/the house wont clean itself so always maintain it/don't adjust your expectations is setting up 2u2 moms to fail/be a whole lot more stressed out about the whole situation.

I'm glad you mentioned that the whole "don't adjust your expectations" was referring to what you did with your older child before your younger child came. I wholeheartedly agree with that. If you let yourself get crippled with fear that you can't go out with both kids alone (barring some medical condition that makes it impossible to take your youngest out) you're not going to succeed. With practice and time it becomes a whole lot easier.

That's great that you could stay up late and get housework done. When you have two small babies that are rotating getting up in the middle of the night that's not necessarily the priority in the moment. Sure, babies sleep a lot...during the day. I think housework is one of those things you need to "adjust your expectations" in the early months. Sure, you want to keep up with dishes so your kids aren't being exposed to moldy food sitting on the counter and you want to pay your bills of course. But if your bedroom floor is covered with stacks of clean laundry/your laundry room is filled with dirty laundry, is that going to matter in the grand scheme of things?

Glad we agree on some things! I also agree that having stacks of clean or dirty laundry isn't going to matter in the "grand scheme of life" but I guess the way I think about it is that it's going to take you the same amount of time, no matter when you do it. I'd rather fold laundry for 10 minutes a day then have to sit there for 70 minutes on Sunday getting it all done at once. I think my type A personality comes out in this case especially; because I am an organized person I'd rather have the clothes put away (we have an organizer that has outfits for the week) so I can find extra clothes quickly, rather than searching through a huge pile of clothes. When doing loads I put everyone's clothes together, only separating, lights, darks, white etc. which, as a whole, speeds up the laundry process tremendously, but if it doesn't get put away you lose a lot of time searching for what you need.

My kids go to bed at 8, I do housework for maybe an hour, have an hour of "me time" and am in bed around 10pm (unless I get sucked into a Dance Moms or Suits marathon), I'm not sure if that's considered "late" or not.

When I had LO's that didn't SSTN yet, I'd nurse and put to sleep at 8, do my two hour "chores/me time" and be ready to nurse again at 10/11 (whenever they woke up) and then I would go to bed after that nursing. The way I see it is that I wasn't going to go to bed until 10 anyway, but to each his own!

Maybe a better question is how many hours do people spend doing housework? Maybe my house is smaller than everyone else's? I wholeheartedly admit I haven't dusted in ages, but the house is picked up and clean.

My house is small too, and honestly I couldn't tell you how many hours I spend doing housework. I do housework in spurts when I find time--I don't set an amount of time to do it everyday. For example, this morning I was up an hour earlier than the kids, so I caught up on some stuff. When the kids were small, I would try to devote 20 minutes in the morning while DH was home to getting the essentials done since DH leaves for work later (he only works 5 minutes from home). Now that the kids are older, I will pick up the kitchen while they eat breakfast (I don't eat in the morning, besides a cup of coffee). This will also vary too depending on how the kids are which will impact how clean my house is. If I have an infant/I'm not sleeping well because both kids are sick/teething, I just focus on the essentials--the kitchen everyday, bathroom and floors once a week (and spot treated as needed, of course). If clean laundry/dirty laundry doesn't get done, stuff gets cluttered--that kind of stuff isn't going to make my kids sick. Moldy food in the kitchen and a bathroom floor my kids are crawling on that hasn't been cleaned in 3 months might.

The nights when I had babies that weren't STTN and was running on little sleep I'd just crash at 8 with the baby. I'd get 3 extra hours of sleep until he/she woke up at 11. That definitely trumped sorting laundry for me. In terms of the time it took to find matching clothes--I didn't find that a problem with having pieces that matched multiple outfits and one piece outfits. Then again, finding outfits for 5 kids is probably just a tad bit harder than finding outfits for 2 kids of the opposite sex. Plus, for me anyway it was easier to devote 70 minutes doing laundry when DH was home and could take the kids for a walk vs trying to sneak it in when I was overtired from the day and just wanted to crash.

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