Help-- long EBF baby post!

l_elizabeth · June 2012

I don't even know where to start! My LO is 6 months old and EBF, he won't take a bottle at all (except for randomly from my DH, maybe once every 2 weeks or so if I've been gone for 3 hours). He was 9 lbs 14 oz at birth, and has always been BF. He was down to 9 lbs 4 oz when we left the hospital, and took 4 weeks to regain his birth weight. Still, the doctors were never worried, have always said to "keep and eye on it." He was born in the 95th percentile with weight, and every appt since has dropped lower and lower. Now he's in the 25th percentile. He has always eaten on demand (every 1-2 hours in the first 4 months), and now he's easily distracted and harder to feed. I feel horrible that he's starving, even though he eats all the time. I'd love to stop BFing and put him on formula, but he won't take a bottle so I have no idea how to accomplish that without a standoff. He's up all night, the only place he'll sleep is our bed (which was fine in the beginning but now that he's 6 months I''m over it). We've done some sleep training but he is still waking up every 2-3 hours, and I feel horrible like he's starving. I try to feed him every 1-2 hours during the day so he gets enough during the day, but I don't think it helps with the nighttime sleep, maybe he is just waking up out of habit.

I don't really know what I'm looking for-- advice, similar stories, just to vent? I don't know what to do with him, he's the exact opposite of my FF, STTN older son. I don't need him to STTN, I just need him sleeping more than 2-3 hours at a time!

My DH and I are going on a vacation just the two of us in 4 months (for 5 days), so he has to be FF by then. I know it's 4 months which is a long time, so maybe I just keep things as they are for now. I'm just struggling.

ababymaybe · June 2012

You could pump before and during your upcoming trip-- if you want to continue BFing. I know people who've done that and it was fine. But if you want to switch to formula, that's fine too.

My DS is really distractable and busy so I have to feed him in his nursery with the lights dimmed, even during the day. When he was younger I could feed him any place, any time, but now he wants to watch the cat/tv/DH etc instead. So trying a boring dark room may help?

What specifically have you done for ST? It's really important to remain consistent with it. Sometimes people ST one way (like CIO), then later revert back to rocking LO and wonder why there progress was undone. Also what is his nap schedule like? He should be on three naps now. Maybe dropping that third soon. Having a pod daytime routine will help your nights.

michelle142 · June 2012

I'm in a similar boat. DS has dropped down to 2% on the weight chart - although he's always been small (never more than 10%). Other than being light, he's very healthy and 80% for height. We EBF and plan to continue to do so. He's eating more solids now, and we're doing weight checks monthly.

Have you tried different bottles? Maybe a sippy or straw cup instead of a bottle?

Is he having enough wet/dirty diapers? Does he appear satisfied? If yes, he's not starving.

I understand the concern since he's dropped so far in %. But did they take into consideration that at his age he's becoming more active & moving more? Therefore he's burning calories more quickly.

Is he still meeting milestones and growing heightwise?

Someone on the BF board told me (when I went through a little crisis last week) to "watch the baby, not the charts". I think this is good advice.

michelle142 · June 2012

Also - I know it's hard not to compare, but try NOT to compare your kids. Every baby is SO different.

l_elizabeth · June 2012

ababymaybe:
You could pump before and during your upcoming trip-- if you want to continue BFing. I know people who've done that and it was fine. But if you want to switch to formula, that's fine too.
My DS is really distractable and busy so I have to feed him in his nursery with the lights dimmed, even during the day. When he was younger I could feed him any place, any time, but now he wants to watch the cat/tv/DH etc instead. So trying a boring dark room may help?
What specifically have you done for ST? It's really important to remain consistent with it. Sometimes people ST one way (like CIO), then later revert back to rocking LO and wonder why there progress was undone. Also what is his nap schedule like? He should be on three naps now. Maybe dropping that third soon. Having a pod daytime routine will help your nights.

I think the problem with doing all feedings in a dark quiet place like his room, is my 2 year old. I just can't have peace and quiet during the day! That's what makes me think going to formula would be easier.

So for ST, we've done Ferber modified CIO and last week we went to straight CIO because going in to soothe him was making him more hysterical. The part that isn't helping, is after his 3am feeding I usually bring him in the bed because I'm exhausted. He loves this, and I think he cries at night because he's confused as to why he's in our bed sometimes but not all the time. So ideally, I'd get up and feed him in his room every time he wakes. I just need to suck it up I guess and not bring him in? In the last week we've picked two times at night (midnight and 3am) when I'll feed him, and just set the alarm. When it goes off, I turn his monitor on and wait until I hear him (which is soon after usually). This way I'm getting more sleep and not responding to his every word, but still feeding him twice at night and don't have to worry about him starving. But last night cried NON stop until 1am, when I put him in our bed.

And naps suck. He naps in his swing, which I know is a problem. He takes a morning nap usually pretty well-- anywhere from 1-3 hours. From there it's downhill, and sometimes he will cry the entire time we're trying to do a nap, up to an hour. But I should probably be more consistent, do crib naps, and stick with it until it gets better. He's only taking 1-2 naps a day right now, and at night sleeps about 10-11 (12 if we're lucky) hours. Broken up of course, in 3 hour increments when he wakes up to eat.

avbliss · June 2012

If hes still eating every 1-2 hours hes not taking in a full "meal" hes just snacking. It's hard to break that habit, but I would start by extending his time between feedings. At 6 mos he should be eating every 3-3.5 hrs and go at least 6 hrs at night. Have you tried a sippy cup with handles? DD1 was EBF and she hated a bottle, but she loved the sippy cup. We started with pumped BM and occasionally water with her solids. If i had to be away from her she would take 4-6oz of pumped milk in the sippy. DD2 I had horrible supply issues and she ended up in the hospital at 1 mo having lost weight (born at 8lb 2oz, was 7lb 13oz at 1 mo). So we supplemented DD2 till 2.5mo then switched full time to FF but by then she was used to taking a bottle too. You can try different bottles as well, maybe its that specific bottle he doesn't like. Keep working at it. But I would say the most important thing is stretching out his feedings. That kind of schedule is just far to exhausting for you and not a good habit for DS to be in.

l_elizabeth · June 2012

michelle142:
I'm in a similar boat. DS has dropped down to 2% on the weight chart - although he's always been small (never more than 10%). Other than being light, he's very healthy and 80% for height. We EBF and plan to continue to do so. He's eating more solids now, and we're doing weight checks monthly.
Have you tried different bottles? Maybe a sippy or straw cup instead of a bottle?
Is he having enough wet/dirty diapers? Does he appear satisfied? If yes, he's not starving.
I understand the concern since he's dropped so far in %. But did they take into consideration that at his age he's becoming more active & moving more? Therefore he's burning calories more quickly.
Is he still meeting milestones and growing heightwise?
Someone on the BF board told me (when I went through a little crisis last week) to "watch the baby, not the charts". I think this is good advice.

Ya he's healthy otherwise, he's 75th percentile in height and 50th in head, which had remained consistent. He's also very mobile, rolling a ton, trying to crawl, scooting, etc. Our doctor reiterated she isn't concerned but we should still watch it. And as far as wet/dirty diapers, I guess I just don't fully understand this one. I change his diaper every 2-3 hours and it's always wet, though not always completely soaking. But definitely wet. And he poops every day or every other day, sometimes a small/medium amount, sometimes a medium/more amount (never a blowout though). And he's very happy. So those things probably mean he's fine?

Thanks for the response, it makes me feel better knowing others have smaller babies too. If I hear "I must be doing a good job BFing, my son is in the 90th percent!" one more time, I'm going to scream!

l_elizabeth · June 2012

avbliss:
If hes still eating every 1-2 hours hes not taking in a full "meal" hes just snacking. It's hard to break that habit, but I would start by extending his time between feedings. At 6 mos he should be eating every 3-3.5 hrs and go at least 6 hrs at night. Have you tried a sippy cup with handles? DD1 was EBF and she hated a bottle, but she loved the sippy cup. We started with pumped BM and occasionally water with her solids. If i had to be away from her she would take 4-6oz of pumped milk in the sippy. DD2 I had horrible supply issues and she ended up in the hospital at 1 mo having lost weight (born at 8lb 2oz, was 7lb 13oz at 1 mo). So we supplemented DD2 till 2.5mo then switched full time to FF but by then she was used to taking a bottle too. You can try different bottles as well, maybe its that specific bottle he doesn't like. Keep working at it. But I would say the most important thing is stretching out his feedings. That kind of schedule is just far to exhausting for you and not a good habit for DS to be in.

Thanks, this is good advice. I just worry that because he's so little, stretching his feedings is going to make him lose even more weight. But he should learn to take in more vs. snack, so I'll work on getting him to eat less often.

michelle142 · June 2012

For the wet/dirty diaper thing: At 6 months, you should be seeing at least 4 to 5 wet diapers per day. As for poopy diapers, it depends how regular your kid is.

michelle142 · June 2012

You may find this helpful: https://kellymom.com/bf/got-milk/supply-worries/enoughmilk-older/

That whole site is extremely helpful.

From what you've said, he's not starving at all. He sounds healthy and happy. If the doctors said they're not worried, I wouldn't worry either. He's still on the chart, which is good. My DS is nearly off the charts, and aside from more frequent weight checks, they're not concerned. As long as he's happy and meeting milestones, all is well.

Jennyanydots26 · June 2012

l_elizabeth:

I don't even know where to start! My LO is 6 months old and EBF, he won't take a bottle at all (except for randomly from my DH, maybe once every 2 weeks or so if I've been gone for 3 hours). He was 9 lbs 14 oz at birth, and has always been BF. He was down to 9 lbs 4 oz when we left the hospital, and took 4 weeks to regain his birth weight. Still, the doctors were never worried, have always said to "keep and eye on it." He was born in the 95th percentile with weight, and every appt since has dropped lower and lower. Now he's in the 25th percentile. He has always eaten on demand (every 1-2 hours in the first 4 months), and now he's easily distracted and harder to feed. I feel horrible that he's starving, even though he eats all the time. I'd love to stop BFing and put him on formula, but he won't take a bottle so I have no idea how to accomplish that without a standoff. He's up all night, the only place he'll sleep is our bed (which was fine in the beginning but now that he's 6 months I''m over it). We've done some sleep training but he is still waking up every 2-3 hours, and I feel horrible like he's starving. I try to feed him every 1-2 hours during the day so he gets enough during the day, but I don't think it helps with the nighttime sleep, maybe he is just waking up out of habit.

I don't really know what I'm looking for-- advice, similar stories, just to vent? I don't know what to do with him, he's the exact opposite of my FF, STTN older son. I don't need him to STTN, I just need him sleeping more than 2-3 hours at a time!

My DH and I are going on a vacation just the two of us in 4 months (for 5 days), so he has to be FF by then. I know it's 4 months which is a long time, so maybe I just keep things as they are for now. I'm just struggling.

You've got a lot of different stuff going on here...some of which may be related but some may not be. The different issues I see are:

- not taking a bottle

- feeding too frequently

- night wakings

- sleep training

The easiest things to fix are the bottle and feeding frequency. He likely is not taking a bottle and being distracted while he eats because he's not that hungry. I am guessing he doesn't feed for a long time when he eats? He actually may not be getting enough fatty hind milk if he eats too frequently, which could be a factor in the weight loss. I thought the exact same way as you up to about 6 weeks ago with my DD..if I feed her more during the day, she'll sleep longer at night. Not true for us.

Start spacing out the feedings for sure - start with 2.5 to 3 hours and see how that works. Hopefully he'll start to feed longer and be more focused. If that works, try 3 - 3.5 hours.

For bottles - again, it may just be that he is not hungry enough to bother with the bottle (you said he will take it from your DH when you are gone for 3 hours...maybe because he is actually hungry?). Also, what flow size are you using for the nipple? It is fast flow enough? If he still won't take a bottle after stretching out feedings and using faster flow nipples, than try different types of bottles. Also make sure the temperature is right for him.

I would work on all this for a while and then work on night waking/sleep training. I won't advocate for a certain type of sleep training, but the most important thing is to stay consistent. Personally, we did CIO (with checking/reassuring) and it has worked really well so far, but you have to be prepared and stay strong.

Good luck with all of this!

l_elizabeth · June 2012

Thanks to everyone who responded, this is all really helpful. I'm going to try and get him to eat every 3 hours instead of 1.5-2. This seems easy enough, whereas some of our issues do not!

Maybe it's right that he won't take a bottle because he isn't hungry enough, that's interesting. And we've only tried slow nipples, so maybe going up is a good idea.

I'm going to try some of this today!

Soon2BMrsN · June 2012

Jennyanydots26:
l_elizabeth:

I don't even know where to start! My LO is 6 months old and EBF, he won't take a bottle at all (except for randomly from my DH, maybe once every 2 weeks or so if I've been gone for 3 hours). He was 9 lbs 14 oz at birth, and has always been BF. He was down to 9 lbs 4 oz when we left the hospital, and took 4 weeks to regain his birth weight. Still, the doctors were never worried, have always said to "keep and eye on it." He was born in the 95th percentile with weight, and every appt since has dropped lower and lower. Now he's in the 25th percentile. He has always eaten on demand (every 1-2 hours in the first 4 months), and now he's easily distracted and harder to feed. I feel horrible that he's starving, even though he eats all the time. I'd love to stop BFing and put him on formula, but he won't take a bottle so I have no idea how to accomplish that without a standoff. He's up all night, the only place he'll sleep is our bed (which was fine in the beginning but now that he's 6 months I''m over it). We've done some sleep training but he is still waking up every 2-3 hours, and I feel horrible like he's starving. I try to feed him every 1-2 hours during the day so he gets enough during the day, but I don't think it helps with the nighttime sleep, maybe he is just waking up out of habit.

I don't really know what I'm looking for-- advice, similar stories, just to vent? I don't know what to do with him, he's the exact opposite of my FF, STTN older son. I don't need him to STTN, I just need him sleeping more than 2-3 hours at a time!

My DH and I are going on a vacation just the two of us in 4 months (for 5 days), so he has to be FF by then. I know it's 4 months which is a long time, so maybe I just keep things as they are for now. I'm just struggling.

You've got a lot of different stuff going on here...some of which may be related but some may not be. The different issues I see are:

- not taking a bottle

- feeding too frequently

- night wakings

- sleep training

The easiest things to fix are the bottle and feeding frequency. He likely is not taking a bottle and being distracted while he eats because he's not that hungry. I am guessing he doesn't feed for a long time when he eats? He actually may not be getting enough fatty hind milk if he eats too frequently, which could be a factor in the weight loss. I thought the exact same way as you up to about 6 weeks ago with my DD..if I feed her more during the day, she'll sleep longer at night. Not true for us.

Start spacing out the feedings for sure - start with 2.5 to 3 hours and see how that works. Hopefully he'll start to feed longer and be more focused. If that works, try 3 - 3.5 hours.

For bottles - again, it may just be that he is not hungry enough to bother with the bottle (you said he will take it from your DH when you are gone for 3 hours...maybe because he is actually hungry?). Also, what flow size are you using for the nipple? It is fast flow enough? If he still won't take a bottle after stretching out feedings and using faster flow nipples, than try different types of bottles. Also make sure the temperature is right for him.

I would work on all this for a while and then work on night waking/sleep training. I won't advocate for a certain type of sleep training, but the most important thing is to stay consistent. Personally, we did CIO (with checking/reassuring) and it has worked really well so far, but you have to be prepared and stay strong.

Good luck with all of this!

I agree 100% with this. If you work on spacing out feedings, you may actually seen an improvement in the night wakings.

Also, you don't have to go to FF just to go on vacation. Do you own a pump?

l_elizabeth · June 2012

I do have a pump, I find I just never get much when I do pump-- I guess because I'm constantly feeding LO. I've tried pumping first thing in the morning but lately that hasn't been possible because LO has been in bed with us from 3-6am, latched the entire time.

It all feels like a vicious cycle, one bad thing affects everything else. But I can take my pump with me, so that is an option. I just don't want to be tied to it (I want to enjoy our time).

patchen30 · June 2012

I have similar problems w/ DS, but I've tried hard to combat them.

DS is small - 10th percentile-ish - and veerry curious. I EP so I know how much he's getting - if left to his own devices, he'd snack all day long - a couple ounces at a time every hour or two. B/c that's totally inconvenient and unrealistic w/ pumping, I try and get him to take a full feeding (at least 5 oz) every 4 hours-ish. It's a major struggle b/c he's so distractable. This is bad, but I have to put him in front of a Baby Einstein to get him to eat! I bet if you could tell how much your LO was getting at each feeding, he'd be doing the same thing. I would just try and space out the feedings, plain and simple. He'll take what he needs.

I'm an advocate of cold turkey CIO, like ripping off a band-aid. At 6 mo he's definitely old enough to go through the night (12 hours w/o feeding). But if you're not comfortable with that, I'd just wait a minimum time between feeds and ignore all other cries or do progressive waiting at those times.

With naps, I agree that he should be on 3 per day, at about 9-10am, 12-2pm and if there's a third, 3-5pm. Personally I'd work on nighttime sleep and the feedings first, then tackle the naps. If he won't go down, I'd CIO.

Best of luck!

Qmommy · June 2012

About the bottle. My girls never took a bottle either. At 4 months I introduced a straw cup (started with 12 month + cup because it's easier to suck) and never tried a bottle again. That's one less thing we have to wean.

DD1 ate every 2 hours until she really got a grasp on solids. At that point she started spacing out her feedings on her own.

Have you started solids yet? I know a mama who's son was at 4% in weight until he started eating fatty solids like avocado. I know solids don't replace BM but the extra fat he received from the fatty foods really helped him gain.

smilelari · June 2012

First, I would find out what growth charts your pedi is using. FF babies and BF babies don't grow at the same rate, and if your pedi is using the CDC charts, it's pretty normal for baby to start dropping percentiles if he's EBF.

Second, if your pedi isn't concerned, I wouldn't be either.

If you feel like you need some help in the feeding department or even some help transitioning to bottles, I would call a lactation consultant.

Allibob · June 2012

I'm sorry this is stressful. I agree with PPs who mentioned spacing out feedings to 3-3.5 hours. My LO is very distractible, and I have trouble feeding her out in public. She is also small for her age, so I understand worrying that they're getting enough. It's better to get a big, full feeding less often than to snack every few hours. This is easier when they eat less often.

As far as nighttime, have you tried lengthening the first stretch of sleep? Maybe start with 4-5 hours and stretch it out gradually to 7-8 hours. The first stretch is usually the longest, and they may wake every 3 hours or so after that. If you could get him to sleep for 8 hours before his first feeding (eventually), then you could either put him back in his crib or bring him to your bed for just the last 3 hours.

shabamwam · June 2012

avbliss:
If hes still eating every 1-2 hours hes not taking in a full "meal" hes just snacking. It's hard to break that habit, but I would start by extending his time between feedings. At 6 mos he should be eating every 3-3.5 hrs and go at least 6 hrs at night. Have you tried a sippy cup with handles? DD1 was EBF and she hated a bottle, but she loved the sippy cup. We started with pumped BM and occasionally water with her solids. If i had to be away from her she would take 4-6oz of pumped milk in the sippy. DD2 I had horrible supply issues and she ended up in the hospital at 1 mo having lost weight (born at 8lb 2oz, was 7lb 13oz at 1 mo). So we supplemented DD2 till 2.5mo then switched full time to FF but by then she was used to taking a bottle too. You can try different bottles as well, maybe its that specific bottle he doesn't like. Keep working at it. But I would say the most important thing is stretching out his feedings. That kind of schedule is just far to exhausting for you and not a good habit for DS to be in.

This! It helped DS sleep better at night too. My pedi was the person to recomend this to me, and she told me that the first couple of days woud be rough(he was maaaaaddddd). But now he only eats every 3.5-4 hrs. My DS still gets really distracted too. I just have to make sure there is minimal stuff to distract him.

Also maybe you could keep an extra session to pump and maybe build up a frozen supply for when your gone?

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