Toddlers: 12 - 24 Months

Re: Thoughts on this?

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    First I need to read the study about long term maternal stress on infants. Because if I personally had to co sleep, or rock all night or whatever else i would have to do to get my DS to sleep each night I would have lost my everloving mind. That is in no way a put down to parents that could or did do that, but it just wasn't right for me. And while my one experience is no sleep study, letting my kid cry for 20 minutes one night turned him from a 11pm bedtime to a 7pm bedtime. IMHO it was better for all of us.
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    I don't let my kid cry for more than 5 seconds after someone on my BMB told me it would traumatize him for life.

     

    I dunno, of course sleep training is stressful to a baby. It was stressful for me, too. But what was even more stressful was 2 very not well-rested people living together in a small space. Sleep deprivation is not healthy for mom OR baby. We both became happier and better-rested after a couple nights of CIO.

     I guess the jury is still out on whether I fcked him up for life, though. 

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    imageLilyRose28:

     I guess the jury is still out on whether I fcked him up for life, though. 

     This too 

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    I don't have access to the full article that contains details about the study. However, the abstract says there were only 25 subjects in this study. 

    So, no. 

    "To me, you are perfect."
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    Our kids are going to be the generation that blames everything on CIO and being breastfed past 1 year.
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    i dont care. what works for me and my baby doesnt work for everyone. 

    and i dont trust this study because it seems like this study doesnt take place in the home of the infant, familiar surroundings make a baby feel more comfortable. how much of the alleged stress was due to the hospital itself? the monitors/unfamilar people/intrusive tests. how big was the sample? 

    do what you want for your kid and be done with it.  

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    Well, give those babies some bootstraps to calm themselves with, kc.

    Babies also have spikes in stress hormones after vaccines. OH THE HUMANITY!

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    Aloe0lAloe0l member

    I'm not a proponent of sleep training before 1 year because of studies like this, and also because it doesn't feel right to me as a mom. 

    But, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do as a parent, and there are times when the benefits will outweigh the risks and in those cases you just go for it.

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    imageHeather R:
    Well, give those babies some bootstraps to calm themselves with, kc.

     

    Babies also have spikes in stress hormones after vaccines. OH THE HUMANITY!

    you heard it here first, CIO CAUSES AUTISM!! 

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    imageKirksMcGirks:
    I think Jenny McCarthy is an expert on this.

    Fuuucking CIO will make your baby feel shitty, yo.

    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/1e/60/2a/1e602a4261a90b9c761ebe748b780318.jpg    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/47/2c/07/472c076006afed606241716dd0db828a.jpg 
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    Honestly, I think it's harder to screw kids up than we realize.  Kids are resilient, and no parent is perfect 100% of the time.  I think it would take more than a few minutes of CIO at an appropriate age to screw up your kid (and this is from someone who hasn't done CIO and DS still doesn't STTN).

    If you are a concerned enough parent to be worrying about these things, than chances are you're doing a good job parenting and your kid will be just fine.

     


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    imageEllaHella:

    Can we go back to the legitimacy of a study with a 25 person sample size? 

    That's akin to asking the people next to you in the elevator.

    lol.

    I didn't look at the study, but honestly, I just think each parent should do what they think is best for their kid and they will probably turn out alright. Yo.  

     

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    I'm not a CIO fan. I've never understood "it hurts you more than it hurts them". How do they come to that conclusion? Pretty sure it really hurts to feel abandoned by your parents. That's just me though. I also think there is a big difference depending on age. If my son cries at night because he's mad I'm not coming to get him, it's different than if a 4 month old cries at night because they need their mommy.

     ETA CIO with my son involved more than 3 hours of screaming, multiple night wakings with more crying and more CIO through the night with NO results after a solid week.  CIO isn't a cure all, and doesn't work for every baby/family. 

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    Like pretty much everything else baby I think to CIO or not depends on your family situation and the temperment of your baby.  We've been lucky that DD has always slept pretty well.  However, when she has a hard night, it's less stressful for me to go get her and snuggle than it is to listen to her cry.  I figure less stressed mom = less stressed baby.  I think there are a lot of flaws with this study and any study hoping to prove one side or the other is going to be skewed.  Though reports like this make me wonder if CIO could be contributing to the high diagnosis rate of ADHD, though I wonder about a lot of the things we do (myself included) that could do this!
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    I didn't feel like we had a choice.  It took FOREVER to get LO to sleep and it required a long process of bouncing and shhh-ing.  If he woke up, we had to start over.  It wasn't practical to keep doing this indefinitely, not to mention he was getting too heavy.  No one was sleeping.  We had to try something, including co-sleeping for a portion of the night for almost a year.  I always wonder if the people who write these articles have relatively easy babies...maybe they are never get to the point of being desperate.  I, for one, thought I was going to lose my mind and sleep training (@ 6.5 months) helped all of us.   
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    My aunt in law is a psychology professor at UNT. I wonder what she thinks of this. 
    i wish i could be joking but my dad is the music teacher at a church so he owuld be mad. we had sex, all the time how bad i know but we dont want to wait and he said GREAT OH KAY! and I was really feeling the wets? down there- too embarsed to say- but he acted like man.
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    imagegisa886:
    My aunt in law is a psychology professor at UNT. I wonder what she thinks of this. 

    Don't you think it's a hoot that UNT's radio station call letters are KNTU instead of, you know, Kay U N Tee?  

    "To me, you are perfect."
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    imageKJmashup:

    imagegisa886:
    My aunt in law is a psychology professor at UNT. I wonder what she thinks of this. 

    Don't you think it's a hoot that UNT's radio station call letters are KNTU instead of, you know, Kay U N Tee?  

    I did not know this. That makes a whole lotta sense.  

    i wish i could be joking but my dad is the music teacher at a church so he owuld be mad. we had sex, all the time how bad i know but we dont want to wait and he said GREAT OH KAY! and I was really feeling the wets? down there- too embarsed to say- but he acted like man.
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    I'm not a CIO fan, but I don't judge unless you're trying to "sleep train" at ridiculously young ages. Sleep training in the way most people are talking about doesn't feel right to me for my son and so we don't. It's not about cortisol levels, it's about what I think is right for my family. Why do we need there to be one right way to parent? Each parent should parent the way they think is best and we need to stop spending time and money on "scientific studies" to prove that our way is right!
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    imagelisagde:

    Honestly, I think it's harder to screw kids up than we realize.  Kids are resilient, and no parent is perfect 100% of the time.  I think it would take more than a few minutes of CIO at an appropriate age to screw up your kid (and this is from someone who hasn't done CIO and DS still doesn't STTN).

    If you are a concerned enough parent to be worrying about these things, than chances are you're doing a good job parenting and your kid will be just fine.

     

    I am a fan of your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. . .  

     

    Hee hee.

     

    Seriously though - as I like to say 'round here, "My children will grow up awesome despite me."  Some days I change "despite" to "to spite".  Depends on my mood. . .  

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    I refuse to take stock in any study with a sample size of 25.

    If the worse thing I do to my child is let her cry, I think I am still doing pretty well.

    And why is God's name are we still talking about CIO?   

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    imagewife1014:

    I refuse to take stock in any study with a sample size of 25.

    If the worse thing I do to my child is let her cry, I think I am still doing pretty well.

    And why is God's name are we still talking about CIO?   

    Because we like acronyms?

    TYIA. TTC. TTYL. ILY. EWCM.

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    sample size of 25= yuck.

    did I miss the age of these babies, how many nights they actually measured this for & why they did this in a 'hospital based sleep program' (what is that anyway)? how did they recruit these moms & babies? were they already enrolled in some kind of sleep program?  what was the method- stick down at a certain time & leave for the rest of the night or what? did they see their mom at all during all this or was it just strangers around in a strangle location too many questions for me here, wish I could access the article.

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    Were these 25 people from RI?

    LMK.

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    Unable to even.  

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    Abstract

    This study examines change in the synchrony between mothers' and infants' physiology as 25 infants (11 males; 4 to 10months of age) participate in a 5-day inpatient sleep training program in which they learn to self-settle through extinction of crying responses during the transition to sleep. The mothers' and infants' experience during the extinction protocol was ?yoked? by the infants' behavioral signaling during the sleep transition period. Saliva was sampled for mothers and infants at initiation of infants' nighttime sleep and following infants' falling to sleep on two program days and later assayed for cortisol. As expected on the first day of the program, mothers' and infants' cortisol levels were positively associated at initiation of nighttime sleep following a day of shared activities. Also, when infants expressed distress in response to the sleep transition, mother and infant cortisol responses were again positively associated. On the third day of the program, however, results showed that infants' physiological and behavioral responses were dissociated. They no longer expressed behavioral distress during the sleep transition but their cortisol levels were elevated. Without the infants' distress cue, mothers' cortisol levels decreased. The dissociation between infants' behavioral and physiological responses resulted in asynchrony in mothers' and infants' cortisol levels. The findings are discussed in relation to understanding the determinants and implications of maternal?infant physiological synchrony in early childhood. 

    "To me, you are perfect."
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    I'm still side eyeing this. Why not do it in the home? I realize it is less controlled but to me how do you control for the effect of the strange room/surroundings? I'm still curious about the protocol too, did they all put them down at their normal bedtime or did all 25 do it at the same time? Were all these babies in rooms that mimic their bedrooms at home (dark & quiet?) or was it noisy or god forbid were they all in the same room? I find it hard to believe they'd have the funding to find 25 rooms for the babies in a hospital but maybe I'm just being over skeptical about this.  I get the point being that even when they weren't crying anymore the cortisol was still elevated which I think is definitely interesting but again, does 5 days really prove anything in terms of longer term effects of the elevated cortisol levels... I guess if they're like my DD and it doesnt work in 5 days maybe..
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    I think for a child to have psychological damage it'd have to be a combination of many different factors. Not just letting them CIO. It might cause problems immediately but not long term. Long term it most likely helps children..

    I'm just guessing here but when we discipline our children, especially during the 2-5 yrs they probably would have the same findings. It's not always a pleasant experience to watch your child melt down because they can't have ice cream for dinner. If studied it probably would have similar findings. However, in the long term it will teach them how to behave appropriately later on in life. Which is the main goal.  

    Although we tried CIO & it failed I don't think that it's wrong to do. It just didn't work for us.  

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    imagemegzway:


    I'm just guessing here but when we discipline our children, especially during the 2-5 yrs they probably would have the same findings. It's not always a pleasant experience to watch your child melt down because they can't have ice cream for dinner. If studied it probably would have similar findings. However, in the long term it will teach them how to behave appropriately later on in life. Which is the main goal.  


    Ha no kidding. I'd put money on cortisol levels through the roof during tantrums so I suppose instead of ignoring or having them go in another room I should hug and kiss & give them what they want every time they tantrum over not having their way. That would make for some awesome behavior down the road.

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    imagegroovygrl:
    imagemegzway:


    I'm just guessing here but when we discipline our children, especially during the 2-5 yrs they probably would have the same findings. It's not always a pleasant experience to watch your child melt down because they can't have ice cream for dinner. If studied it probably would have similar findings. However, in the long term it will teach them how to behave appropriately later on in life. Which is the main goal.  


    Ha no kidding. I'd put money on cortisol levels through the roof during tantrums so I suppose instead of ignoring or having them go in another room I should hug and kiss & give them what they want every time they tantrum over not having their way. That would make for some awesome behavior down the road.

    No shiit? And here I have been giving C pie and icecream and cake everynight, you know, to keep his stress levels down. Because high stress levels for a half hour or hour at a time is bad. /sarcasm.

    Sorry, article is pretty clear its talking about "prolonged" crying and stress, and the only mentions of stress levels and other problems after the training period are pure conjecture; it does not appear there was any research on that.

    Sad, and my sister and BIL got their degrees from there.

     

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