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SD Lying and starting to spiral out of control....
Okay, I have tried a few times to write this post, but there is alot to this and I am not sure I can get all the information written down to where it is understood correctly so I apologize in advance if some of it doesn't make sense or if I leave something out...
My SD(10) is a very smart, little girl. Educational-wise she is more on line with 12-13 YO, however emotionally she is more like a 7-8 YO. She has always had issues with lying to us, ever since she was 4 or 5, we figured out then that it was more of trying to make everyone happy with her and she thought thats how she was supposed to do that. At the time they were little lies like "daddy, I want to stay with you, I hate living with mommy" ect. she was doing the same thing with BM as well. We all sat her down and confronted her about the lying and why she couldn't do it any more and she stopped. Then when she was 8 she started up again but also started with thowing major tantrums, like beating her head against the wall when her mom told her it was time for bed, or us telling her to pick up her toys and she would then run out out of the house and try to run away from us, or just getting told anything that she didn't want to do, and she would turn into this completly different child, breaking things, trying to hurt her brother and sister, ect. (at one point she actually broke a window at BM's house because she couldn't have a snack...
We got her in therapy, explained the situation to the therapist, and all the therapist said is that she is trying to get our attention and that she is a happy well adjusted kid. Because my SD is so smart she know how to manipulate people to say what she knows they want to hear, even if she just met them, so we always felt that she just put on the little girl voice and said that sometimes she gets mad and she doesn't know how to handle it. So the therapist gives her some anger management techniques, and sends her on her way...
FF to now, she is lying again, she never completely stopped, but it would be small lies, that we would catch her in and punish her for. She is now saying things that after alot of investigation we know to be false, she will come over to our house and say that her SF is beating her (we know he isn't). She will go home to BM's house and say the same thing about me, or one that BM thought kinda funny was that I made her cook fried chicken and when she wouldn't I burned her on the fire (Totally not true) When BM asked to see the burn she revised her statement and said that I tried to burn her but she got her hand away. ( The weekend she was with us and she accused me of this I had actually just gotten home from the hospital from having surgery and was staying with my parents for most of the time) I only say SD for a total of 3 hours that weekend and it was at my parents house.
She is also back to throwing fits again, only now she is raging against other people other than the four of us. She was at a sports practice and didn't want to do what the coach told her to do, so she first acted like she was hurt, and when that didn't get her way then she threw a fit right there at practice, I was there and was able to get her away from everything and everyone, but just the fact that she thinks that if she doesn't get her way that she should either lie about you to get you in trouble or rage at you until you give in is worrying us. She is now getting into trouble where ever she goes, and we are worried that she is starting to spiral out of control... The lies she is saying are bad enough that it could get someone in trouble, and when she doesn't get her way, she either falls to the ground pretending to be hurt or starts to rage and either throw things or in one instance she locked her mom out of a running car.
We have tired everything we can think of at this point, and I am posting this here because we really don't know what else to do at this point. If you ground her or take away things she just shrugs and it doesn't bother her at all. I know there is nothing going on at BM's house, as the four of us (MH, me, BM, and SF) all have a really good relationship and everything is pretty consistant between the two homes. I guess my question is does anyone have any advice on what we can do at this point. We want to stop this before it becomes a huge problem, and therapy hasn't seemed to help. Right now, we all agree that no one is to be left alone with SD so there is always a witness is she tries to accuse one of us of something, but that is not a solution... If you read all the way to the end thank you so much and I'm sorry its so long....
TTC 6 years three m/c during that time
5/11 Ruptured Ectopic - Lost left tube and a normal baby boy
2/12 IVF #1 BFN - Very poor egg quality... 
5/12 IVF #2 Hoping for the best! Est ET 5/11-5/18 BFN
Decided to move on to adoption to complete our family!
5/12 IVF #2 Hoping for the best! Est ET 5/11-5/18 BFN
Decided to move on to adoption to complete our family!This discussion has been closed.
Re: SD Lying and starting to spiral out of control....
That's a lot and kuddos to all the adults for working together. This therapist doesn't seem to work. Have you tried another one? Maybe mention it to her physician? This is not normal behavior and the pattern of escalation is alarming. Maybe she needs a psychiatrist who specializes in children.
Good luck.
I think you need to try another therapist. The first one didn't work, but obviously SD still has problems...
On the soccer thing - what was the final consequence? That you "took her away" when she didn't want to do what the coach was instructing, anyway? That's no punishment. I think the coach (or her parents) should have benched her for the next game. And make her sit and watch everyone else playing when she isn't allowed. Even if she's a great player and the coach won't keep her out - you as parents can say you need to teach her a lesson and she doesn't have permission to play. If she throws a fit at that point - that will make two games that she misses. (Of course, if she is in a position where she wants to quit anyway, I'd have to ask why she is being pushed to play).
If my kids broke one of my windows, they would be paying for it themselves. I'd go to their piggy bank in front of them, and then I'd take money out of their college funds and show them how the repairs are coming out of money put aside for them.
You've taken away toys - how about playdates, sleepovers, special outings (movies, etc.)? TV? Phone / ipod? Video games? I'd start taking away things one by one until she realizes how "un-fun" life can be when you aren't behaving.
But the most important thing is therapy - maybe even family therapy with everyone.
have you all sat down and talked with the therapist? is there any other signs/ symptoms of ADHD or aspergers syndrome or something?
The therapist should be able to advise you on how to handle certain situations.
it seems that SD is looking for attention/ trying to get her own way. but her actions are dangerous, she needs something extreme at this point. take away all her personal items, toys, movies, etc. and tell her she can earn them back, one by one.
if that honestly doesn't work I would have to suggest some sort of boot camp. you are already to the point where you cannot have an adult be alone with her, that seems extreme...
First, it is great that you are all working together, that will make things a lot easier.
I agree that she either needs a physicians or therapist's care. It sounds as if she has some major issues.
I'm also wondering what the consequences for her actions are. When my DD does something wrong (which is not often), we take away her ipod. It's how she facetimes her friends, so it's her major "toy," so it's hard for her.
Also, because DD has shown immaturity / carelessness / bad judgement with taking care of her things, she does not have a phone, and when she gets one it will not be an iphone. We told her that when her latest and greatest debacle happened, and when we finally do get her a phone it will be bittersweet b/c she will be reminded that she is not getting what she had really hoped for b/c she needs to demonstrate good judgement before that happens - which will not happen by her next birthday or even next Christmas. And DD is overall a good kid (just has no concept of taking care of things)!
I agree w/ PPs--how fortunate for everyone involved that all parents are on the same page here. I can easily imagine what a nightmare it would be otherwise.
You definitely need a new therapist.
And while I do think that there needs to be clear, consistent consequences for her behavior, I think there is more going on, and that the lying is a symptom of it. All kids lie and sometimes have problems coping with their emotions, but I think what you're seeing is kind of extreme.
My son will lie to me, for example, about putting his cup in the sink or hiding his Kindle Fire in his room. But I don't think he could even try to lie convincingly about me burning him with cooking oil.
It sounds like you have two problems--this lying, attention craving behavior, and then the anger control issues. I think you're right to be concerned.
Sorry it took me so long to respond, SD little sister came home sick from daycare and within two days both families had the bug so its been a miserable week of doctors appts, and sleeping trying to get over that bug..
In the past 5 years or so she has been to 4 different therapists, 4 different diagnosis. Her physician just recommends us to a therapist and then the circle continues. We are thinking about trying to find an actual psychiatrist this time as all of the others have been psycologist's.
Everything has been taken away from her, she is at a stage where she doesn't care, that worries me too because typically kids have something they care about, We have gone as far as calling the cable company and having the cable turned off when she is with us, and visa versa at BM's house, we have made her pay for the things she breaks out of her allowance, and if she doesn't have enough money she works it off by doing extra chores at both homes.
The final consquence of her acting a fool at sports is the coach actually kicked her out of practice. Plus she isn't going back anytime soon, as much as she wants to.
We are in the middle of trying to find a qualified therapist to deal with this, we are all willing to take the time it takes as long as she gets help.
That seems to be what most therapists do, at least the ones we have gone to, the sit down with all of us including SD and talk to us as a family for about 20 min, then they send SD out of the room and the therapists talks to us for another 20 min, then they talk to SD for about 10 maybe 15 min.
When all this first started happening we had her evaluated by a Dr that specialized in behavior issues... I can't remember what field he was in. She doesn't have ADHD, Aspergers or any other special needs, that doctor suggested behavior modification therapy, which we tried.
Thanks for the idea about some type of boot camp, I will look into that and see what there is in our area... The only thing I worry about is her going there and getting more ideas from kids that might be more troubled than she is....
The reason we don't have anyone be alone with her is just to protect the adults involved in her life, we don't want her saying anything that could hurt an adult in the legal sense, not sure if that would help but I feel like we have to do something to protect the other members of her family.
We have taken her to something along those lines but I will look into the neuropsychologist and see if its the same type of doctor we took her to in the past, she was fine as far as not having special needs, at least based on what that doctor said, but like I said I am open to trying anything new or old if it helps her.
Yea we take everything away, she has never been one to play with toys like other kids, even when she was alot younger she just never played with toys, never cared for them ect. So we take everything away and she just shruggs like oh well. I think alot of this would be easier if there was something that she loved that we could take away but that isn't the case, she doesn't care when her mom takes away her Iphone, or any of her other "toys" when we do take something away from her that she seems to really enjoy she gets upset for about 5 min and then she doesn't care anymore.
The coach did handle it, he kicked her out and told her not to come back until she got her stuff together.
Wish taking away stuff mattered, She hasn't watched TV, played video games or had anything to play with in quite a while because she is grounded so much. She just doesn't seem to care, we don't take her to fun places either because she has been misbehaving so badly.
Thanks for the advise about the underlying cause, I know it isn't the case at our house since she is the only child and is never ignored, but she might be feeling that way with BM since she has other kids that are much younger to take care of all the time....
Thank you, we are looking into getting a new therapist, at this point that is the only other thing we can all think of.
I do agree that it is extreme what she is doing, she started out lying about little stuff which we handled however what is scary to me is that she can lie so convincingly that if we didn't know her so well we'd believe her...
Yea your right about schools moving at a glacial pace, the school's response was to have her sit with the counseler once a week during lunch and have a type of group therapy... She tried to turn it into the 30 min a week that were all about her.. That was about it, but the teachers all agree that she is doing this attention grabbing stuff at school too, just not to the same extreme as with us.
Luckly for us we all have large involved families so usually there is someone around or close by all the time anyways. Hopefully she won't pick up on it till we can get this under control...
While I hate that you are going though this too I am so glad someone else is experiencing this too. We got the same diagnosis, several times. It almost seems like that is what they say when they don't know what else to say... As for the whole she may grow out of it, my SD has gotten worse as she's gotten older so just to warn you..... Hopefully they will both outgrow this behavior, but I am starting to think that just doesn't happen....
All therapist that we have gone to have required at least one parent from each household to come to each session... They spend time with us and then time with her. It hasn't seemed to matter when the therapist still says that she is okay and just wants the attention and not to give it to her, which we don't.