Learned something new about 'due dates'

magpie1127 · May 2012

Many of you may remember a previous post I made asking about FAM birth control. A lot of you nesties suggested that I read "Taking Charge of your Fertility" - which I did, and which I really enjoyed!! Thanks

Anyhow, Weschler mentions in the book that hospitals' 'due dates' are calculated based on ovulation at day 14 (many women ovulate on different days). She gave the story of one woman whose typical ovulation occured on day 36. The women told her doctor that the due date he gave her would not be accurate, bc it is based on Day 14 ovulation. In other words, the 'due date' would be about 3 weeks earlier than it should be. Not only did the doctor not listen to this woman, he labeled her pregnancy 'high risk' bc the baby was smaller than he thought it should be (obviously, bc it was three weeks younger).

Can you imagine how many women are wrongfully induced bc of this? ...Makes me cringe.

Still free to be me · May 2012

I tend to ovulate a lot later than "normal." When my dr. was trying to date the pregnancy, I simply lied and told them that I didn't remember when my last period had started but that I knew without a doubt which day I concieved (which I did.) My due date is based on my conception date, confirmed by the dating ultrasound...This was important to me because, since I have gestational diabetes, my dr. wants to induce labor at 39 weeks...which, based on my LMP, would have been 37-38 weeks.

dani2480 · May 2012

That was an eye opener for me when I read that book (among other things).

I was charting to conceive, and knew exactly when I ovulated. When I went in to see my OB for the first time after getting the BFP, I discussed my charting with her. Fortunately, she was very supportive and respectful of it, and my due date was based off of my charts.

I'd strongly encourage women who plan to chart to seek out a doctor/midwife that is familiar, comfortable and respectful of charting. Sadly, it seems like there are a lot of doctors that still seem to think ovulation happens on day 14 too!

bloverde · May 2012

I use NFP (basically FAM with abstinence during the fertile phase). When I called the midwives and told them my LMP was 10 weeks ago, but I had conceived only 3 weeks ago, they didn't blink. I have PCOS, so I never ovulate on day 14. You just have to find a provider that truly listens to women and knows how our bodies work.

sosoph · May 2012

Most ob's go by the dating ultrasound these days anyway. And, a due date is one day in a +/-2 week window, so doesn't mean much. I don't think it's so much that ob's don't care, it's just they realize how unlikely it is that you'll deliver on a due date.

Regardless, I do think women should be more connected to their bodies to know when they're ovulating.

magpie1127 · May 2012

sosoph:
Most ob's go by the dating ultrasound these days anyway. And, a due date is one day in a +/-2 week window, so doesn't mean much. I don't think it's so much that ob's don't care, it's just they realize how unlikely it is that you'll deliver on a due date.
Regardless, I do think women should be more connected to their bodies to know when they're ovulating.

Maybe the doctors don't trust the due date to the exact day, but the majority of pregnant or new-parent friends (who don't have a ton of knowledge about natural methods) have been led by their doctors to really invest in their due dates. I'd just naturally assume that this would make them more likely to opt for an induction, ya know?

After reading this book, it's so important to me to get to know my body better, whether I'm looking to conceive or avoid...

sosoph · May 2012

magpie1127:
sosoph:
Most ob's go by the dating ultrasound these days anyway. And, a due date is one day in a +/-2 week window, so doesn't mean much. I don't think it's so much that ob's don't care, it's just they realize how unlikely it is that you'll deliver on a due date.
Regardless, I do think women should be more connected to their bodies to know when they're ovulating.
Maybe the doctors don't trust the due date to the exact day, but the majority of pregnant or new-parent friends (who don't have a ton of knowledge about natural methods) have been led by their doctors to really invest in their due dates. I'd just naturally assume that this would make them more likely to opt for an induction, ya know?
After reading this book, it's so important to me to get to know my body better, whether I'm looking to conceive or avoid...

Good point. Last time, I had the ob go by my ovulation, and delivered 5 days after the due date. People drove me crazy looking for the baby. This time, I left it by my lmp which I know is 5 days off, so it gives me more of a buffer!

caralck · May 2012

Some are definitely more willing than others to accept that ovulation can occur earlier or later than the typical cycle. Not that I advocate lying to your doctor but if you know you did ovulate significantly later than the typical day 14 (ie more than 10 days), then telling them you're not sure is probably better. Some docs are sadly attached to the 28 day cycle as the end all be all thing and waiting to date a pregnancy in the third trimester to convince them it's too early is not going to work, by then due datany can be off by 3 wks anyway. My ob office does a dating scan on everyone (the doctor himself does it). Since I did ivf, I didn't need one but he wanted to see baby too so we did one anyway. So...maybe when you call for your first ob appt with a new doc in the future, ask if you'll get a scan to date your pregnancy, if they automatically say yes, then no worries. If they say it depends, then pretend you don't know. Again, this is if you don't have that typical cycle.

tortuga47 · May 2012

My doctor wouldn't budge on the 14 day rule even though both u/s dated us exactly when I said I ovulated because of charting and NOT according to my LMP. My DH and I just use the date we know to be accurate as our "due date." That is the date we told people too. We figure the doctor's office can date us however they want because the date they are using is actually later than our due date so we don't risk induction, but it is frustrating. I agree though, cringe worthy to think so many women are induced early.

Sawyerplus1 · May 2012

It's true, though this is my 1st pregnancy (out of 3) with personal experience. With my first two pregnancies my EDD was based simply on my last period dates, but this time my MW fiddled with my EDD by a few days because of the length of my actual cycle.

unstuck6jb · May 2012

magpie1127:
sosoph:
Most ob's go by the dating ultrasound these days anyway. And, a due date is one day in a +/-2 week window, so doesn't mean much. I don't think it's so much that ob's don't care, it's just they realize how unlikely it is that you'll deliver on a due date.
Regardless, I do think women should be more connected to their bodies to know when they're ovulating.
Maybe the doctors don't trust the due date to the exact day, but the majority of pregnant or new-parent friends (who don't have a ton of knowledge about natural methods) have been led by their doctors to really invest in their due dates. I'd just naturally assume that this would make them more likely to opt for an induction, ya know?
After reading this book, it's so important to me to get to know my body better, whether I'm looking to conceive or avoid...

I completely agree that regardless, women should understand their bodies and reproductive cycles better. It's a long story, but I think it's possible that I could have avoided my m/c had I understood my cycle. I trusted a doctor, that turns out probably just believes in the 28 day cycle. It's so unfortunate! It's really reassuring to know for sure when you ovulated when you got PG because you were charting and not just because you assume you must have been on the standard cycle!

judahsmommy1 · May 2012

I usually ovulate about 4 weeks into my cycle. My doctor with my DS was more than happy to listen to me and date off what I know about my body. This time we did a dating ultrasound at 8 weeks. The other myth out there that drives me crazy is that women ovulate in the "middle" of their cycle. So many women think that means if they have a 60 day cycle that means they ovulate on day 30. Obviously it doesn't work like that and there's so much more that goes into ovulation. I loved TCOYF!

Carissa.Briscoe · May 2012

I am so lucky to have found the doctor that I did, because she listened to me when I told her I had no idea how far along I was when I took the tests. I had 5 (maybe) MC last year, and had only had one this year but that wasn't abnormal for me. When I called to set a "confirmation of pregnancy" appointment, they got me in right away because I could've been almost 14 weeks along at that point. Thankfully, I was only 8! /hehe

My doctor estimated my "due week" (I don't see the point of due dates, what baby knows how to tell time yet anyway?) by the size of my baby on the ultrasound. It was scary to think I could've been that far along and not have known!!

missindependo · May 2012

Yay great book. I loved it. Unfortunately I stopped charting and have a due date based on the doctor's due date.

DiveFrog · May 2012

Some doctors are just SO married to the 28 day cycle. My original OB knew I had PCOS (she diagnosed me) and long, irregular cycles. She knew I charted religiously (we had been trying to get pregnant for over a year). She treated me with two rounds of clomid prior to me getting pregnant. And still, when I got pregnant on an off cycle and told her I ovluated on day 22 she agreed verbally to that date, but still put in my chart a due date based on LMP. Even AFTER we did an early dating ultrasound that confimed my dates she refused to budge.

It was extremely frustrating to me and a major contributing factor to me switching to the MW's in the practice. They understood immediately that I didn't want the wrong dates to play into a premature induction situation when I knew that the date the OB was using was a week earlier then my actual due date. They also TRUSTED that I knew my own body. That trust and the early dating ultrasound that matched my dates perfectly and they quickly adjusted my "official" due date.

hilwithonelary · May 2012

With DS, I ovulated waaaay late (CD 40something). My OB did not believe me, told me charting didn't work in irregular women, and then acted really concerned when her exam revealed that my uterus was still quite small (I really should have run for the hills at that point). A dating ultrasound moved my due date to 6 days before the date I thought I was due. I was terrified I would have to fight off induction at the end of my pregnancy because she would think I was 41w when I was only 40w1d. I ended up having DS early. I had him at 37w3d according to u/s, 36w4d according to me. His newborn evaluation estimated him to be 36.5 weeks, and he had some typical near term newborn issues.

With DD, I lied to my MW about my LMP so the stupid wheel would give the right due date. She probably would have believed me, but I didn't want to risk it.

Shazzie116 · May 2012

dani2480:
That was an eye opener for me when I read that book (among other things).
I was charting to conceive, and knew exactly when I ovulated. When I went in to see my OB for the first time after getting the BFP, I discussed my charting with her. Fortunately, she was very supportive and respectful of it, and my due date was based off of my charts.
I'd strongly encourage women who plan to chart to seek out a doctor/midwife that is familiar, comfortable and respectful of charting. Sadly, it seems like there are a lot of doctors that still seem to think ovulation happens on day 14 too!

Agreed! When I went for my first appointment, I brought my charts because they asked for my LMP and I knew I ovulated late and I knew our conception date since it was really the only shot we had in a week and a half. They looked at my charts and were very supportive. I couldn't imagine going to a doctor that wasn't open to respecting that I don't know a thing or two about my own body.

Ms Molly · May 2012

I charted for about 9 months and ovulated on day 25 the month we conceived. I was so thankful that my midwives were open to listening to my actual conception date based on ovulation. I would be dated about a week and a half off if it were based on my LMP. I calculated my due dated based on my ovulation date before my first prenatal appointment, and all of my ultrasounds dated me exactly to the same day! It really is cool to be aware of your fertility.

Tash13 · May 2012

My due date listed with my original OB was a full week off because he wouldn't listen to me about ovulation schedule. I charted and knew when I O'd but he went off of the standard scale. My MW listened to the longer length of my cycle but is still a couple days off from my calculations because, while my cycle is longer, I also ovulate a few days later than they think I should. It's fine by me though, it's only a few days and will buy me time at the end if I go past my due date.

mstroud23 · May 2012

Based on my LMP my EDD is off by a week. I told my MWs exactly when I ovulated and they are still using my LMP (never mind my cycles are wonky). When people ask me, I tell them the EDD based on ovulation and then follow up with, "Whenever little one wants to come". It's all an estimate anyways and I'm perfectly healthy without any risks. I might care more if I GD or something like that.

mAnYaSha · May 2012

Ok ladies,

What is your take on this one:

a) Based on my chart I should be due Nov 1

b) Based on LMP Dr gave me Oct 30

c) Based on u/s it should be Oct 28

I know they all are kind of close together, but I am curious which date you would trust the most.

DiveFrog · May 2012

mAnYaSha:

Ok ladies,

What is your take on this one:

a) Based on my chart I should be due Nov 1

b) Based on LMP Dr gave me Oct 30

c) Based on u/s it should be Oct 28

I know they all are kind of close together, but I am curious which date you would trust the most.

I think all these dates are within the margin of error. I would not stress out about a 1-3 days. When youstart talking a week or more difference is when it can make a real impact to how your care providers treat you in regards to induction/extra ultrasounds etc.

On the cycle I miscarried I didn't ovulate until day 45...and didn't get a positive pregnancy test until day 61 of my cycle. When you get that far out it is impossible for the Dr./Midwife to work from you LMP and they will date via ultrasound. What irks me is when you tell them you ovulated later than day 14, but not so far into a cycle for them to be able to mentally deny day 14 and then you are fighting for that extra week or week and a half.

I am positive that with so many care providers refusing to let patients go past 41 weeks that in actuality a lot of 40 and 39 week mothers and babies are going through unnecessary inductions and all the interventions that can be consequences of induction.

Tash13 · May 2012

mAnYaSha:

Ok ladies,

What is your take on this one:

a) Based on my chart I should be due Nov 1

b) Based on LMP Dr gave me Oct 30

c) Based on u/s it should be Oct 28

I know they all are kind of close together, but I am curious which date you would trust the most.

I personally use the date from my chart, OB used the one from my u/s and MW uses the one from LMP and cycle length. Now I just say "the week of the 12th" so it encompasses it all.

awinter05 · May 2012

I have read TCOYF and was charting while TTC. I knew I ovulated later than day 14, usually around day 19-21. When the Dr. asked for my last period I simply lied and adjusted the date to match a day 14 ovulation. I had an u/s done at 7 weeks for some spotting and the baby measured perfectly in line with my false last period date. I didn't want them telling me at the u/s that my baby was measuring behind when I knew I hadn't ovulated until day 20/21 that cycle.

carlinlp · May 2012

This is another great reason to give women a due month, instead of a due date.

atlbride23 · May 2012

If my cycles were irregular, I would definitely give them a LMP date that was 14 days before my O date, regardless of when my LMP was, especially if I was seeing a "regular" OB rather than a midwife. The cycle I conceived this LO, I actually ovulated on day 14 or 15, so I gave the correct dates.

KarmB · May 2012

i lied about when i ovulated so i could get a dating scan. bad i know, but I got an accuract age

sschwege · May 2012

That is exactly why I brought my chart in last time (ovulated on d21) and will this time as well (ovulated on d22). Had I not been charting with my first I would have been considered 41w3d pregnant with DD as opposed to the 40w3d gestation I really was when I gave birth. My office doesn't typically induce until 41w6d, but still the induction drums certainly would have been beating and I know they would have been recommending additional tests. Plus I was always measuring at least a week sometimes as many as three weeks behind, can you imagine if I had gone by LMP how much smaller I would have seemed?!

choppinbroccoli22 · May 2012

That's ridiculous that a doctor would not listen to reason, but I have to put the onus on the woman for not switching practitioners since she knew he was wrong. I guess that may be the reason the book is called TCOYF.

MadamePresident · May 2012

My doctor has my due date a full week early. He hasn't said anything about the baby measuring small, but when he said what my due date was 10/3, I said actually I believe it should be 10/11, because I ovulated on this day. While he didn't change the due date, he said he wouldn't start talking about inducing me or anything until 10/20.

I don't know why he wouldn't just use my date. I chart and my husband was out of town the rest of the week. I KNOW when it happened.

flyer23 · May 2012

I didn't chart when we were TTC DD. I hung around TB long enough to understand that because I had long cycles, my due date might be off. My cycles were generally around 5 weeks, so I told my OB that I might have O'd up to a week late, and she set me up with an early u/s. The u/s was at 8w4d by LMP, so I suspected I was closer to 7w4d or thereabouts. Baby measured 8w even, closer to my suspected date. But since it wasn't off by more than a week, my OB didn't change my EDD.

I ended up being induced at 42 weeks (that is, 42 weeks from my LMP). I still think I would've gone into labor naturally if I'd had those couple of extra days.

I started charting after DD's birth, in part to avoid that from happening in the future. With DS, I O'd on day 26. My midwife ordered up an early ultrasound anyway due to a previous miscarriage, and not surprisingly, it confirmed my dates. But one nice benefit of charting was that I didn't freak out when my baby measured two weeks "behind" Smile

With this baby, I O'd on day 20. My midwife trusted my chart, no need for an early ultrasound.

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