Nanny ?
It looks like I'm going back to work. I got a job practicing law again. However, the job is starting out part time (I'll be paid hourly). I imagine it will work up to FT or almost FT, if I want it to. Thankfully, I have (am supposed to have) lots of flexibility, making my own schedule, no billable requirements, etc.
We put an ad for a nanny on Care. Advertised the position as pt possibly going ft. Said the hour range would be 25-32 hours per week, Mon-Thur, with Fridays off. We said we would re-evaluate in 90 days.
Our first nanny came on Friday, called Fri night and said she wanted to bring her husband over to discuss the specifics. Paid vacation days, paid holidays, paying her when we're on vaca, etc. And asked if she could go FT.
I don't like being pushed for FT, so we're going to try to find someone else. The position may never go FT.
So my ? (if you've made it this far), is it odd/abnormal/unreasonable to expect that a PT hourly employee would NOT receive paid holidays, vaca, etc? Maybe I'm being an azz. What I can't figure out is if someone is PT (and thus doesn't work full days), how would you pay them for a holiday? Some prorated portion of a day?
Re: Nanny ?
From what you wrote, that person would have rubbed me the wrong way, she sounded too pushy.
In regards to paid vacation for part time employees...I'm not sure. I think they should be entitled to a few prorated sick days, because regardless if they work full time, everyone gets sick, and everyone counts on their earnings to pay their bills. I can see if it is a situation where you as the employee are going on vacation and leaving her without the income she relies on, then perhaps you could come to an agreement of some sort of compensation, but I don't think that you need to offer her paid days for her to take as 'vacation' days. Does that make sense?
It does. I want to treat a nanny fairly, but I also want to be realistic.
Ugh. What I really wanted to do was wait 90 days and re-evaluate the situation. At that point, I'll know if I'm really working FT or not. And I'll know if the nanny is working out. Sort of a 90 day probationary period. Then we can discuss paid holidays, vacation, etc. But I don't know if that is going to be realistic either.
I really felt like the first nanny was trying to back us into a corner. She already started, we'd discussed the parameters of the job (Mon-Thurs, 25-32 hours, re-evaluate holidays, etc in 90 days) and then she tried to pretend like she had no idea what the job entailed, timelines, etc. I think she's a great nanny, I just think she wants/needs FT work. And that's fine. But it's not this gig.
I agree with all of this. I must say that if you felt uncomfortable in anyway it isn't going to work. IF she is already pressuring, etc. it isn't going to resolve. I couldn't leave my child with someone that is already pressing me into a corner. I also just put an ad on care.com and I noticed that everyone that responded really didn't fit the needs I had. I had no clue why they responded when they couldn't do the schedule or the pay. I had to sort through 50 applicants and i only got 5 good one's.
I must say it is very hard to find a reliable, honest, trustworthy person. I would keep looking. If something rubs you the wrong way already move on.
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I think a lot of this depends on how trained and experienced the nanny is, and how in demand nannies are in your area.
A qualified nanny around here would probably mean you'd have to guarantee and pay for 32 hours, and if you worked less, that is your problem, not hers, since she needs some guarantee of income.
For holidays, typical would be to outline what days are considered holidays (Memorial Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years, for example) and those days would be paid as if she worked, but she would not show up. So if you guarantee 32 hours and her weekly rate is 100 bucks, and she normally works odd hours monday through thursday, on the week of Memorial Day she'd get 100 bucks, but not work Monday.
If you use her over 32 hours, she gets overtime.
Sick time, vaca time, can be built up as in 1 day ever 6 weeks, etc.
Oh, the husband thing is weird. It seems like these issues come up (this actually wasn't the first one) after she goes home and talks to him. The only "real" reason I can see that she wants to bring him because of language barriers. She is from Bolivia and is ESL. But (IMO) her english is very good, so I'm not sure I even believe that.
This is what is weird to be as well. I'd probably look for someone else for this reason especially since she knew taking the job that you'd discuss said terms in 3 months. I do think it is fair to offer her some sick days and possibly paid holidays that lay within her typical work week (i.e. if Monday is a holiday and you are home then she would still be paid since she typically works Mondays).
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Frankly? I'd tell her that you're happy to have that meeting with her in 90 days as originally agreed, say nothing more and see what she does. I'm betting she's going to bolt and frankly you want her to do that sooner rather than later. You were up front about it being part time and I'm betting she took the job not really ok with being part time and is now trying to make the job work for her.
You are the employer. You need this job to work for you first and foremost. If it doesn't work for both of you, you CAN find someone who is satisfied with the job exactly as you posted, interviewed and hired it.
You were up front about what you were offering and now she wants to change the deal. I'd stand strong.
Would you EVER except a part time law job with the potential to go full time and then show up your first week and ask for full time and benefits? Sure you could ask but it would be silly to expect it to happen if they've told you up front that it won't happen for at least 90 days.
The husband thing seems incredibly odd to me. Why is she not capable of managing her own communications with her employer? What's going to happen if she needs a sick day or time off? Will she be communicating directly with you or will she be having her husband call in for her? That's just really unusual to me. If she's mature enough to interview and accept a job she should be mature enough to have frank discussions with you about the job once she's accepted it.
I personally would just come home early and have the meeting with her at the 90 day point never making an effort to include her husband. If she was really insistent about it I would make darned sure my husband was there for the meeting as well. I don't like the idea of bringing a man into my home that I don't know when it's probable that his part in the meeting is likely to be either intimidation or strong arming in negotiating.
My bet is that he's pissed at her for taking a part time job and wants to rectify the situation.
As for benefits - I work part time. I don't get sick days or paid holidays. Hence - neither did my Nanny. I can't afford to pay her on days that I don't get paid. She fully understood that. If I were working full time and had paid sick and holidays I would have happily have passed those benefits along to her.
In the US it's INCREDIBLY rare that anyone working part time gets any kind of benefits at all. That's the main reason people hire part time people - they're cheaper because they don't get paid those things.
My approach is to mirror for her what you get with your own job. If she's sick and you can use a "sick day" pay to be home then I would pass that benefit of paid sick time along to her. If your sick time/pay can be used hourly then that's how I'd outline it for her as well. If you don't get paid sick time then there's no way I'd pay her for an absence. It just doesn't make sense.
A good nanny is worth their weight in gold and I don't mean to sound cheap but when you are part time it's tough all the way around. My nanny didn't get paid time off but she got holidays off simply because I didn't work those days. I didn't get paid and neither did she.
What she DID get was an incredible bonus each year, me busting my buttt to get home early so she could avoid traffic on her way home (but still paying her for the full day), being flexible with what time she arrived when I could (but still paying her for the full day), the ability to bring her child with her when she was out of school, really nice birthday gifts, etc.
I did what was within my ability to make things as easy as possible and show her our appreciation but I just couldn't commit to paying her for days when I myself was not getting paid. It just made no sense.
Gotta tell you.... I'm seeing red flags here.
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Thanks, Howley. The way you set up an agreement with your nanny is exactly how I intended for this position to be set up. I just wanted to hear that it was reasonable to do so.
I fully intend to be generous (in the same manner you were - bonus, flexible, etc), but I didn't intend to set a high minimum hour standard.
Honestly, her last two nanny jobs I believe were with SAHMs. She was a full time nanny with the mom at home. In other words, she worked for very wealthy folks. It's fairly normal in the town where we live. But it's not the arrangement we wanted. For example, DH came home an hour late on Friday. I was stuck in a meeting. She actually seemed shocked that it was ok for her to leave before I was home. She's commented several times on how involved my DH is with the kids.
I understand the loss of negotiation power after 90 days, but my point was, if I'm consistently working 40 hours a week, I'm ok with passing on these benefits to her. But if the job doesn't evolve into it (or I don't want it to), I'm not willing to commit right now.
I almost flipped my *** when she asked me to "ask my husband again if she could get full time." Lol. That is SO not how we roll in this house.
I agree with pp that it's not a good sign she's rubbing you the wrong way right off the bat. And I think there are as many working arrangements for nannies as there are nannies...in my experience no two arrangements are alike. Our neighborhood is full of nannies (I am one of only two SAHMs in our neighborhood of about 30 families), some part-time, some full-time, some with benefits, some without. I think it depends completely on the family, the nanny and both their needs. I think it is ABSOLUTELY possible to find a part-time nanny within your parameters and a good one!
I can tell you what we did with our nanny - she worked 16 hours a week, so very part time. She worked for us 2 days a week and another family 3 days a week. I originally was going to pay her as you said - for the hours she worked, no paid holidays or vacation. However, she did ask for that, and she was a wonderful nanny, living on her own and truly relied on her income. So we came to an agreement - if we didn't need her that day (on vacation, etc), we would still pay her. If she needed the day off, she would still get paid, but would make up the time babysitting for us at night/weekend. It worked out quite well, actually. She never abused the time off, knowing she would have to give up her free time.
I think if you want to find someone for what you are describing, *almost* full time, you may need to discuss the holidays/vacation time with them and come up with an agreement. The other issue that was often a deal breaker for us with nannies, was taxes. We were going report their income on our taxes, so they would need to as well. Many nannies refused our position because of it. Make sure you talk to them about that issue as well!
that seems odd to me. i work part-time, am not paid a salary (similar to you). i don't get paid vacation or paid holidays. i am betting that you, as a lawyer, won't get that at your new job, either. i think it is a little much for a potential babysitter to ask for that.
and i am for sure not paying my child care provider for my vacation when i'm not earning any money in the first place! i think your instincts are right- that was a pushy sitter. and why did her husband have to come over, too? that is odd.
We have a nanny for M-TH but it is 41 hours per week in those days so we do provide paid holidays and vacation days. I feel that I want to provide a competitive position and attract good talent. I also think about what I would expect as an employee. I do think that at a roughly 30 hour work week some vacation days would be provided. That said the fact that those were her first concerns at her first interview would have me looking elsewhere. To me it should be more about the fit; she's acting like she already has the job and wants to know when her first paid day off is. I would move on! Good luck!
Sorry I just realized she was already working for you. In that case I agree with pp that her husband is probably concerned she took on a job without knowing the benefits and whether or not she'd get to full time status. And he's probably trying to sort of represent her interests. While I get it I do think its unnecessary and a bit unprofessional. Maybe its worth asking her if she's unhappy or if she has specific concerns. And just being upfront that you really don't know what the end situation will be for your job and so you can't promise her anything beyond what was already discussed. If she has needs that require her to have that then maybe this is not the correct fit at this time. If you are very happy with the care she provides your child then maybe you have to come to a compromise...it's very difficult to find a nanny that you trust and who you are happy with.