- Pregnancy
- Baby & Toddler
- Parents
- Getting Pregnant
- Baby Names
- Product Reviews
-
Registry
- Community
-
More
Want a personalized experience?
Download the free app
October 2011 Moms
jonnygurl76
member
"Sometimes I am two people. Johnny is the nice one. Cash causes all the trouble. They fight." - Johnny Cash
have you read this? LIP
jonnygurl76
member
it disgusts me....
https://www.marieclaire.com/_mobile/world-reports/stay-at-home-moms?click=main_sr
"Sometimes I am two people. Johnny is the nice one. Cash causes all the trouble. They fight." - Johnny Cash
This discussion has been closed.
Re: have you read this? LIP
I see what she's trying to say but for me, feminism is about choice and that choice works both ways.
I think it is incredible that I'm able to balance work and motherhood, but I chose that life. If another woman chooses to stay at home, do everything from scratch and EBF, I think that can be just as empowering and fulfilling.
Once again, I think women and mothers are our own worst enemies.
Burned by the Bear
I can kind of see what she is saying but I think she is also crazy cakes.I think she makes an excellent point about women not realizing how detrimental it can be to your career to take time off. And I do think returning to your career (assuming you want to) is something to consider when you decide to stay home. I know for lawyer it is really hard to be out of the market for a few years.
However, her other stuff is crazy cakes. My natural birth, cloth diapering, and homemade baby food doesn't tie me to the house. I don't even understand how the heck an epidural would have an impact on that.
Also, to the BF part, I get it yes it ties you to your kid a little more. I guess I don't see a problem with that. And I will respectfully disagree with her on comparison of formula and breast milk (but I agree women shouldn't be demonized for bottle feeding). Also, it is freaken disgusting that she just basically said a nursing mom is reduced to an animal. WTF.
I should add that if you choose this way of life I don't think you're a B!tch, your life, your choice, I think she's a b!tch for the way she's saying it and coming across.
what a tool. Im so pissed off right now
ETA: Can I just add that it is ridiculous that she says "let women do what they want" when clearly she means "let women do what I want"...essentially telling us that she knows what is best for us, and hey - wasn't that what the feminist movement was trying to accomplish? Giving women the right to make the decisions that are best for them?
i want to slap her face, but this may explain her ideas about FF vs. BF:
'While her interests and writings are diverse, a 2010 Marianne news magazine poll named Badinter France's "most influential intellectual," primarily on the basis of her books on feminism and motherhood,[4] though the motivations for her controversial attacks on breastfeeding have been criticized because of Publicis Groupe's connections with infant formula-maker Nestl?.[5][6]'
taken from :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89lisabeth_Badinter
This is exactly what I was thinking, especially the bolded part.
Ugh, what a judgmental b!tch! I'm not telling her she has to stay home and raise kids; how dare she try to tell me I have to work outside the home! And some of her points are just ludicrous and make it clear that she hasn't experienced any of it first hand. I EBFed till 6 months and it didn't interfere with our marriage or intimacy. And a lot of her complaints have more with getting fathers to step up and take a more active role than with getting mothers to step back (e.g. fathers can make homemade baby food, DH will throw on a load of CDs and stuff them when they're dry, etc.).
I also don't know of any woman who made the choice to stay home with her kids without considering the effect it would have on her career. It's not that they're short-sighted, it's that it's worth having to climb back up the ladder in a few years to be home with the children now. Is it hard to do? Yes. Is it impossible to re-enter the workforce 18 years later? Hell, no. My mom gave up her career in 1979 when my brother was born. She stayed home with both of us, when we were older taking on some simple typing jobs she could do at home. In 2002 she went back to college for three summers, got a new degree and re-entered the work force in a completely new field. Yes, her age worked against her with some job applications, but in her mid-50s she started a new career and is doing quite well with it now. It's all about figuring out what works for you and your family, not what society or some stuck-up, judgmental uber-feminist (I agree with pp that feminism is supposed to be about having choices, not obligations) tell you to do.
BFP #1: July 12, 2010 Natural M/C: July 26, 2010
BFP #2: January 30 ,2011 Born: September 29, 2011
BFP #3: January 5, 2013 Born: August 25, 2013
Does she even have kids? I didn't see it mentioned in the article.
wikipedia says she has 3 children but she was born in 1944--that makes her 68. i am never reading or buying Marie Claire mag again, i am appalled that they would print something like this.
I saw that...definitely makes me suspicious about her opinions being driven more by money
If she does I just feel bad for them to have a mother like her. Sounds like they were raised by a very cold mom.
I'm flipping this insane wench the middle finger while I happily makes plans to leave my full-time job as an Accounting Manager to spend more time with my child.
Whatever, crazy lady.
IVF # 1 ~ Antagonist ~ ER 1/27/11~ ET 1/30/11 ~ + HPT 7dp3dt
DD born med-free on 10/24/11
Whoa, that is a pretty controversial article. I have to wonder if they printed that for sheer shock value because her opinions are very extreme. I don't even know where to begin. It seems she wants to think of herself as an advanced being, but lady, we are all animals and whether or not you choose to breastfeed your baby doesn't change that fact. While breastfeeding might tie you down more in the beginning, I find it very easy to leave the house and it's not like you can't offer your baby a bottle of pumped milk.
I have a PhD now and am staying home with my baby for at least four more months. One of the reasons for that is how unfriendly my field is toward women, especially mothers. One of my friends is a post-doc and when she told her employer she was pregnant, he told her that he would not be renewing her contract. Of course he didn't come right out and say it's because she was having a baby, but obviously the subtext was there. That is just one example. A lot of my priorities have changed since I started grad school-I hadn't even met my husband yet-and I do not feel badly about not wanting to devote 80h/week to my career at this point. If I find a job in my field, great. But I still think I can be a good role model to my child/ren with the accomplishments I have made thus far.
That woman is obviously trying to stir up a sh!tstorm by spouting off such radically anti-woman viewpoints. I tip my hat to her for a job well done.
And I want to kick her in the snatch for being maybe the biggest t wat I've come across in a long time. Why are women each other's own worst enemies when it comes to these topics?
BFP 1/18/11, EDD 10/1/11. Born at 37w5d on 9/15/11.
***BFP Chart***
"There will come a time when you believe everything is finished. That will be the beginning.
While I hated the way she worded most of it, I do agree with parts of it. The last part:
"Don't ever give up your economic independence. Don't give up your job. You must be able to survive without a man. Because if you no longer get along with your partner or he treats you badly and you don't have the means to leave him, you're enslaved. "
While I don't think she worded this well - I think she may have a point to consider (note: only consider - not just take it as the bible and go out and get a job today if you SAH).
What if your husband died today? Would his life insurance cover you for 18+ years? Would it cover you long enough to get a new job that would make enough money to support you and your child(ren) who would now need to be put in daycare/after school care? What about retirement - would you be able to have enough saved up with your husband's retirement savings at the time of his death plus social security plus whatever you can scrape by as a single mother to retire on comfortably at the age of 60/65?
What if you are stuck in an abusive relationship with the father of your child and you don't have the financial means to just up and leave him because you don't have a job and he's taken away access to your bank account? It's something to consider - 50% of marriages end in divorce, and it could gets messy towards the end. You would be forced to deal with living in that situation a bit longer than a woman who had a job, and thus the financial freedom to leave at the drop of a hat.
I personally work, not particularly because of any of those things, but because I hold the insurance for my family. If I didn't work, we would have to go to private insurance and the cost for me alone would prevent us from living off of just one income comfortably. I do not find my career fulfilling - I enjoy being a mother much more than being an employee, which I think most women would agree with. But I don't think I am being less of a mother by not being a SAHM. Just like I do not think that a SAHM is less of an independent, intelligent woman by not having a job. We each do what's right for our families, the best we can.
But there are potential consequences to being a SAHM - lack of financial independence. And there are consequences to being a working mom - your child spends more hours awake at daycare every week then he does with his parents. Those are hard facts that shouldn't be ignored when taking into consideration whether or not to continue on with a career or be a SAHM.
What's insulting is that this woman is implying that SAHMs have not considered the potential ramifications of their actions and have turned into being only a Mother who does not have sex because she is breastfeeding and is tied to the home because she is cloth diapering and making her own baby food. Insulting. Degrading. And the reference to being an animal - I would b!tch slap her.
My Blog
I think you make an excellent point. I am scared to SAHM in case anything happens to DH and heck, we have rather large life insurance policies. But still not anywhere near enough to last multiple years with no additional income.
I agree with this! Just last night DH looked at me while DD was eating in the middle of the night and commented on just how cool it is that I make food and she eats from me. He thinks it's awesome and breastfeeding is definitely not having an impact on our sex life -- just having a baby and having to be up random times int he middle of the night or rush to a crying infant at inopportune times is what has impacted our sex life!
I agree with her point that no woman who hates BFing should do it, but she makes moms who BF for 6 months and more seem like they are slaves to their children with no free will and no ability to do anything and that's just not true. Also, she fails to recognize that there are many ways to BF including pumping and supplementing with formula. Ugh, this whole article had me annoyed, but especially her points on breastfeeding.
::face palm::
Wow! I'd you are vying for women to do what they want, let them do what they want! All the bs about bfing? Disposable diapers? Satisfying sex life?
I have a headache from rolling my eyes so much!!!
I should add that my sister had three epi-free births, BFed all three kids, CDs, and has a career. Her H stays home with the kids though.
Wonder what she'd make of that arrangement.
I guess I just don't get the whole feminist movement...I thought that feminism was supposed to push for equal rights for all women, not be a movement that only supports women in the workplace. I have no problem with moms who CHOOSE to work, moms who HAVE to work, or moms who CHOOSE to stay at home. It's a personal decision. Women should support each other in whatever choice they make, not belittle each other, or make SAHMs feel like they are making an unintelligent choice. I believe children know they are loved and cared for when they are loved and cared for, regardless if mom and dad work.
This lady needs to shut her piehole. Her opinions are not validated or wanted. She's probably just jealous that she didn't get to be the mother she wished she could be.
On a different note, her opinions are definitely affected by her age. At a staff development I attended, research was conducted that found women in that age group define themselves by their career. Their work is their "life." Everything they do, at work and at home, is driven towards making them a success at their job. It found women in our age group work as a means to an end, so we can have the life we want outside of work. Our satisfaction came from other areas, the things our job allows us to do, hobbies, traveling, etc, not from success at work.
Ugh. This is what I hate about the work vs. stay-at-home debate. I don't believe there's a right or wrong, it's whatever works best for you and your family. And attitudes like this just perpetuate the problem. I SAH with both kids and am loving it. My sister works 50 hours/week and loves it. She needs that time off from the kids to help her be a better mother. I would never judge her and she would never judge me. Maybe for this lady working, ffing, disposable diapering, etc. is the right thing for her but it doesn't mean it's for everyone. She needs to get off her soapbox.
For those who can't access that link at work. Its long!
I think this woman is WRONG WRONG WRONG.
I will only speak for myself, but I don't feel enslaved one tiny bit. This is the decision that I made to quit my paying job and take on another job that I feel is equally rewarding.
FWIW, I know many SAHD in my circle who gave up jobs that had their anxiety ratcheting through the roof. Their wives enjoyed their jobs and the moms made enough for Dad to be able to stay home. It worked out better for everyone.
Why all of the sudden is it enslavement if a woman chooses to do the same? Freedom of choice must be TRULY freedom of choice. The women that choose to stay home most likely have weighed the pro's and cons. They are free to make that decision and I think more power to them.
OK, I'll be the odd man out. I really see nothing wrong with her views. She is expressing what she wants to do for herself, but with every point, does state how doing the opposite is valid as well, if that's what you want to do. I see her point as being, don't lose yourself in being a mother, be yourself as well.
I don't think warning women to be financially independant just in case is being critical. It's sound advice.
So you agree with her point that a nursing mother = an animal?
Or the following statement? "The gains of the previous century?epidurals, bottle-feeding, disposable diapers?allowed women to reconcile their roles as mothers with the necessity of being financially independent. This 21st-century project of naturalism, which makes the female into an animal again, is a rejection of those gains." Which basically implies that if you don't get an epidural, if u breastfeed, and if you cloth diaper that you are turned into an animal..
This woman is crazy and this article made me sick.
The way I read this, she is speaking of women who are unhappy with breast feeding, cloth diapering, etc, but do it because they feel like they are being judged as a horrible mother for not wanting to do those things. That they don't have to be tied to doing these things, that they have other options, and if those options will make them a happier person then that is what they should do.
I do not think she is saying that if you BF, cloth diaper and/or don't get an epi you are like an animal, I think the connection she is trying to make is that animals don't have options. The judgement and ridicule women face for not doing these things tends to take away their options.
I really think this is just perception on the part of mothers, though. The fact is, only a very small minority of women BF past a couple of months, deliver med-free, cloth diaper, and make their own organic baby food. I think maybe women think a much larger proportion of women do these things than actually do...perhaps because "crunchy moms" (and I would define myself as a little crunchy) are vocal about their choices. And I think women who don't do these things sometimes make themselves feel unnecessarily guilty because they see "crunchiness" as somehow being an ideal.
When the truth is, there is no ideal. I think the vast majority of women have a kind of a-la-carte approach to motherhood, picking what works for them and rejecting what doesn't. And that's perfectly feminist, IMO.
I actually agree with many things this woman is saying, and a lot of stuff I've read in Bringing Up Bebe. I think some women put more of their identity into motherhood than they really wanted to, and maybe it's out of guilt. We seem to have this collective mental illness in the US that if something is easy, you're not sacrificing enough or working hard enough. And that just leads to a lot of frustrated, unappy people, which the US has in spades.
I think a lot of the more controversial parts of her opinion stem from the fact that she is in her 60s, and her experience with the idea of women's choices is a lot different form ours.
I also wonder how the French system of education plays into her ideas about college-educated SAHMs. In the US, where most people pay out of their pocket for college (in whole or in part, up front and/or through loans), maybe there's less of a feeling that one has a duty to "contribute to the economy" than there would be if you went to college for free.
I agree with Liz and Overture....while I don't necessarily agree with 100% of her wording, I do agree with the basic premise (as I read it to be). Basically, I see it as a message to women that it is ok to identify themselves as being more than just a mother. I don't use the phrase "just a mother" to diminish that role, but it is just one role of many that we will fill throughout the duration of our lives. I have seen so many women focus so much on trying to be the perfect mother that they lose touch with themselves and their significant other. Many of my friends' parents no longer knew what to do when their children grew up and they were forced to focus on their relationship again. I honestly think that is why there is always so much IL drama in the world-parents forget that they have their own lives and need to learn to live them free of their children from time to time.
While they aren't the norm if you go by statistics, breastfeeding, making your own food, and staying at home have become very hot topics of conversation lately. Perhaps cloth diapering as well, but I don't hear about it as much. Fact of the matter is, I FF. I work. I occasionally give my son store-bought purees. (I BLW the rest of the time out of pure laziness more than anything else-I just want to be able to sit and enjoy my own food) And, I constantly feel judged for all three of these things. I think women that BF are amazing, honestly. Especially those that are able to do it for a longer amount of time. But, that just isn't for a lot of women, and that is ok too. Women shouldn't feel bad about the fact that they aren't doing it. Same thing with SAHMs. More power to you. It just isn't for me. Bottom line is, women should be proud of whatever parenting decisions they are making (as long as they aren't harming their children, obviously) and not be pressured into a lifestyle that isn't for them. I wish some of her quotes weren't so crazy-pants so that it could be viewed as a positive message that she is sending.