Preschool Field Trip safety concerns
catmw21
member
How does your child's preschool handle field trips? My 3 year old's (some in her class aren't 3 yet) DD's is taking a 30 minute (mostly highway) school bus trip to a place called Hands On House museum. Cool place, we've been there, but my concern is safety. I always thought it was odd that we have all these car seat rules but nothing for school buses at least to my knowledge in PA. I've read about compartmentalization but I'm not buying it. I?m inquiring to the director about the three-point restraints which a friend of mine told me her preschool director said was state law at least for 3 year olds but I'm not sure about this.
They are only allowing 2 parents, selected by lottery to attend as chaperones. My same friend's preschool allows any parent to attend (not sure if they have to have clearances).
They also said that we are not permitted to drive down separately even to just be around with our younger children as ?there isn?t enough parking," which I'm not really buying. Another mom was planning on going with her baby because she was uncomfortable as well.
I?m uneasy about all of this, maybe just because it is my first time (DD only started preschool in March) and I am sure I will be labeled the ?helicopter mom,? but she is my child, I don?t follow without questioning and I need to do my research.
Thanks fo your time! J
Th
Thanks for your input!
Re: Preschool Field Trip safety concerns
hmm I don't have any firsthand experience but I don't see how they can tell you that you can't drive to the museum and meet them there. assuming you are going to pay for yourself, and that the museum is open to the public, you should for sure be able to do that.
I'm not familiar with the laws, but I for sure would not be comfortable with a bunch of three year olds riding carseat-less on a school bus.
It's really odd they won't let you drive and meet them there. I would seriously question this.
Our preschool in NY allowed parents to make their own transportation arrangements if we were uncomfortable with the lack of restraints on yellow buses. Some of the working parents actually ended up having their kids opt out of the trips altogether because they couldn't take them themselves and didn't want them on the bus.
Our preschool in Paris actually has a 1 adult per kid rule for fieldtrips, so almost every one has a parent, grandparent or nanny accompanying them. I'm not sure how the transportation works, though, as our first trip isn't scheduled until next month.
DS did a 3 year old preschool field trip and I went with him. They took the school van and each child was in a booster seat.
That's "hogwash" about not allowing parents to chaperone a field trip event.
Thanks everyone, I spoke to the Director today. She said the bus definitely has no seat belts or harnesses, but that she thinks it is safe. ??? based on what, I don't know. I also asked if I could drive her to the museum, drop her off, leave and come back to bring her home, and her response was "well everyone will want to do that then." I just looked at her blankly I think. What I should have said was "and?..."
In addition, all staff will be on the field trip so there is no alternative or school for my DD that day, and of course, no refund.
I got a little teary after I spoke to her because I feel bad for my DD that she won't be going because it sounds like fun, they made t-shirts for the event today at school and all, but I just can't send her if I feel it is unsafe.
Oh, and she said since one student isn't going, I could take the students place on the bus, but that doesn't really solve my concern. It was all very fishy, the Director asked me if I signed up for the lottery to Chaperone, I said that I was told by the teacher that it had already been decided. She was surprised, went and spoke to teacher and came back and said "oh, only 2 parents signed up so they are going and she must have had the sign ups before you started in March." What I think really happened is teacher picked her two mom's she wanted to come and that was that. Anyway, I'm not in a popularity contest, so I don't really care. It was just a funny addition to the story.
Thanks for all your input, everyone.
Sincerely, "that Mom"
Sorry, Auntie, I missed reading your post earlier. Thank you, yes, all of the reasonings you mentioned make sense and are very similar to my friends explanation as she is a former K teacher and also works part time for her children's preschool. However, she still agrees that a 3 year old on a bus isn't the safest choice. I did read the article you linked, thank you, this will help me with my research and ultimate decision. I have read things like this before and I do understand that seat belts cant save all lives and depending on the age can actually be more dangerous, that is why I asked for a 3-point harness. I'm curious if 3-year-olds were included in these studies? It doesn't appear that any research has been done by a third-party, they are all people who have large stakes and the ultimate reasons really seemed to be the cost. The part that states,
"About 440,000 public school buses carry 24 million children more than 4.3 billion miles a year, but only about six
children die each year in bus accidents, according to annual statistics compiled the National Highway Traffic Safety
Administration. About 800 children, by contrast, die every year walking, biking or being driven to school in cars or other
passenger vehicles, said Ron Medford, the agency's deputy director."
I would question the conclusion that this author drew based on his research and would ask how many children are transported by ?walking, biking or being driven??? he states how many use the bus but doesn?t state how many for the group he is comparing. In other words, a percentage would be a better representation of his point otherwise his point isn?t really valid. What would be more valid is if he said ?24 million by bus and 6 die.? Vs. ?XX million by car and X die.? That would be a proper comparison. What he did isn?t a true comparison. Even still, the research may still prove his point, but he didn?t state it so I remain unconvinced.
Also, the article only discusses or assumes front and back impacts, not side. So this is another weakness in the article.
Still, your points addressing the other issues are most likely the case and a good explanation of what is really going on. I should have tried to look at it from their point of view with those issues.
I stand firm on the 3-yr-olds without 3-point harnesses on a school bus isn't safe although if I were to find more information negating this, and says 3 year olds in a 3-point harness on a school bus are less safe than 3-yr-olds without, I'd go with the science, research and statistics, I just haven't seen anything that is truely good, valid research. Or, if someone were to present me with good research that says, a 3 year old on a school bus with no seat belt is safer than a child in an car seat in a car. Then I would probably let her go. This article, I think, attempts to say that but didn't give me the evidence to support it.
Thanks again! This is a good excercise for me.
Comparing bus safety to car safety is kind of like comparing apples to oranges. Because of the size and weight of a bus many of the concerns about what will happen to a car in a crash are mostly irrelevant. My older daughter is taking her first school bus trip this week, but since we live in NYC she's been riding on the subway and city buses since birth and those don't have restraint systems. In our car she rode in a harness until she outgrew her radian (and I tried to sell my car so we could get one that fit a frontier when that happened... unfortunately that didn't work out so we had to booster her) and her sister is still RF at 2y 9m and won't turn around until she hits the limits on her radian. Car safety is very important to me, but car safety rules don't apply the same way for buses because the physics are so entirely different.
As far as the rules regarding parents driving themselves to the sight, coming from a former museum educator please don't do that. We had occasional parents who did that then either the kid would pitch a fit and want to be with mommy or we would be taking the tour groups into otherwise "closed" areas and the parent would be upset that they can't join us. This put the tour guide in a very uncomfortable position because while one extra person wasn't a big deal, double the people we planned on (if each parent did this, which did happen) completely destroyed our plans for the group.
I was comparing bus to car safety because the auther of the article in the PP's link implied that buses were safer than cars but he didn't give adequate evidence to support it.
I understand cars and buses are different. My point was nobody has given me any good, hard evidence to prove to me that a 3 year old riding in a school bus unrestrained was safe. I suggested that if someone was able to provide me with evidence of this, I would then be ok and that statistically proving that it is actually safer or as safe as riding in a car seat in a car, then I would so ok. Again, I haven't found anything supporting that.
In fact, I found that the American Academy of Pediatrics, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and many others have established recommendations that say that children under 5 and under 40 lbs. riding on a school bus should be transported using a child restraint system. Compartmentalization only holds true for childen 5 and over and over 40 lbs. So these entities have actually established recommendations for infants, toddlers and children and they support my position.
As far as dropping off at the museum, my dd has no problem seperating so that wouldn't be an issue for us. I think the schools concern is probably that some parents would actually stay instead of dropping off and then you have an awkward situation. I've thought about it and I guess I can understand that but it isn't really any different from dropping them off at school but I guess one could argue that it is a different place so a child could have an issue, bus a school bus would be out of the ordinary too so I'm not sure that arguement holds up either.
Honestly, based on this you should just pull your child from the preschool. It was one thing to disagree with the field trip policy, but it seems like there is a lot you dislike about the school in general. Why send your child to a school where you don't seem to agree with the director, and you think the teacher played favorites? It's bad enough when kids go home and tell their parents that "My teacher doesn't like me", but when the parents start to feed into it you do everyone a disservice. I'm sure there are other preschools out there that cater more towards the type of care you are looking for.
MomEads, I was feeling pretty heated when I wrote all this. I stated in a PP after the one you quoted that I thought about it and spoke to a friend and understand why they have made some of the decisions they have. I made some assessments about the situation that I don't know are true, I was just making assumptions which isn't really fair. Like I said before, I think they probably have some reasons for making the decisions they have. Although it may not seem like it I really like the school, the director and the teacher. I was having a bad couple of days. I think overall, I'm just upset that my DD will have to miss it because my DH and I (along with many other parents) felt the mode of transportation isn't safe enough for 3 year olds.
Regarding, "playing favorites," I can understand why a teacher would want to bring specific parents vs. others especially since this is the school's first field trip. As a teacher, I'm sure you want positive, helpful parents, not ones who would be disruptive or just stand around and chat with other parents.
I think pulling my child from the daycare would be pretty impulsive and unfair to my DD. We all have bad days, rough patches and most school's aren't perfect. Thankfully, I have this board and friends here at home to bounce things off of, and go through this ongoing, learning process of parenting.