s/o holding boys back from Kindergarten

chuicafina · April 2012

In the thread below (asking about whether they should hold back their DD with a September birthday from Kindergarten) there were a couple responses that said to send her, but it may be different if she had a boy. I've heard of this before, and I've always wondered what it's about.

I know that girls tend to be ahead of boys in language and social skills, but is that the only reason? I've heard of some people holding back their boys so that they'll be bigger and stronger in sports later, but it usually seems that the reason given is that boys just aren't mature enough or aren't ready for Kindergarten as early as girls.

Thoughts? Ideas? Discuss!

DaisyJanie · April 2012

I'm not holding my guy back, daycare is expensive! I am clearly a terrible person. But seriously, somebody's got to be the young one, and I think red shirting messes things up because then kids in one grade are as much as 18 months apart from each other.

There was that study or something that showed that more major league baseball players were the oldest in their grade, but I don't see that being an issue in this family. DH and I are not athletically gifted people

CantWait2Be · April 2012

good question. I wonder about this too. DD will be 5 in June so age wise can start kindergarten in the fall, which at this point we plan on. A neighbor with a son in dd's preschool class mentioned maybe holding their son back, that was the first i've heard of this. I think unless dd's preschool teacher says she's really not ready for kindergarten we're sending her.

justme04 · April 2012

I have never heard this and since I have 2 boys I'm curious about the responses.

Edit- Although I think they have to be 5 by Sept 1 and DS1's birthday is the 6th...so that might hold him back.

chuicafina · April 2012

Personally, I think we will send DS to Kindergarten when he is 5. Barring from obvious academic or social issues, I don't see a reason to hold him back (and even if he had delays, that might give me even more reason to send him right away so that he could receive the services he needed from his school. Obviously, this would depend on the level of delay).

IDK, at this point, the thought of holding back a child just because he's a boy and less mature than some of his girl peers, doesn't really make sense to me. But then again, plenty of my opinions on things have changed since becoming a parent, so I wont say definitively that my thoughts on this wont change as well.

aztoid2006 · April 2012

As a kindergarten teacher, I can tell a big difference between boys who are barely 5 and boys who are almost 6. Boys seem to need an extra year in order to be developmentally ready for school. Even in kindergarten, there are times when students need to work independently on a given task. Boys who are younger sometimes seem to struggle with sustaining attention on "school" tasks. I am already thinking about when I will start DS, and will seriously consider waiting until he is 6. These are just my observations...

CarlaAndJames · April 2012

I always thought ot had to do with size. Smallest girl in the class, no big deal. But smallest boy could be subject to teasing, not as good at sports when they get into middle school years, stuff like that? Not saying I agree, just what I always thought!

chuicafina · April 2012

aztoid2006:
As a kindergarten teacher, I can tell a big difference between boys who are barely 5 and boys who are almost 6. Boys seem to need an extra year in order to be developmentally ready for school. Even in kindergarten, there are times when students need to work independently on a given task. Boys who are younger sometimes seem to struggle with sustaining attention on "school" tasks. I am already thinking about when I will start DS, and will seriously consider waiting until he is 6. These are just my observations...

Thanks for your input! I was hoping some of our younger grade teachers would chime in.

Do you find that the younger boys seem to catch up by the end of the year?

maddiemoon43 · April 2012

Here kids start JK at 3 or 4. And all of the grades kids are in is based on a birthday prior to Dec 31st, so based on the calendar year, not the school year. If someone started late (school isn't required before age 6) they would still start with the other kids born their year. When we transition kids with autism at work into school, they have often skipped kindergarten in favor of behavioral therapy they still enter grade 1, which sometimes sucks as they could often benefit from a more social, play-based curriculum like in JK or SK.

chuicafina · April 2012

maddiemoon43:
Here kids start JK at 3 or 4. And all of the grades kids are in is based on a birthday prior to Dec 31st, so based on the calendar year, not the school year. If someone started late (school isn't required before age 6) they would still start with the other kids born their year. When we transition kids with autism at work into school, they have often skipped kindergarten in favor of behavioral therapy they still enter grade 1, which sometimes sucks as they could often benefit from a more social, play-based curriculum like in JK or SK.

Oh wow. So by holding back a year for kindergarten, you would actually be skipping kindergarten. Or SK, rather. Interesting!

maddiemoon43 · April 2012

chuicafina:
maddiemoon43:
Here kids start JK at 3 or 4. And all of the grades kids are in is based on a birthday prior to Dec 31st, so based on the calendar year, not the school year. If someone started late (school isn't required before age 6) they would still start with the other kids born their year. When we transition kids with autism at work into school, they have often skipped kindergarten in favor of behavioral therapy they still enter grade 1, which sometimes sucks as they could often benefit from a more social, play-based curriculum like in JK or SK.
Oh wow. So by holding back a year for kindergarten, you would actually be skipping kindergarten. Or SK, rather. Interesting!

Yep, that's the policy in our local boards at least. We will try to make a case for why it would benefit a student (you know, like they have a social and behavioral and communication deficit and aren't likely to take to all day in a desk in grade 1 suddenly - so frustrating, and they often regret it!) but they will rarely, if ever, bend. I can't think of a time they have at all lately, even for those with special needs, so holding your child back "just" because you don't feel they're ready wouldn't sway them.

JuneBugsMommy · April 2012

Maturity level is the main reason. I did my student teaching in a kindergarten class, the birthday cutoff in that school district is September 1, we had a little boy with an August 6 birthday and he was just not ready to be in a structured environment for 6 hours per day. My mentor teacher tried her hardest to talk with his foster mom to see if maybe she would be willing to hold him back a year but she wasn't interested in what the teacher had to say. Very unfortunate for the little guy.

SpceCadet · April 2012

Right now, I'm heavily leaning toward homeschooling DS. Our district is about to try to pass a penalty waiver allowing the class size to increase to 34 to 1 for all grades. Aside from that... I plan to put DS into Kindergarten at age 5. If he needs to be held back I would have him repeat Kindergarten.

I think a lot will depend upon his maturity level and ability to handle a structured environment also.

aztoid2006 · April 2012

chuicafina:
aztoid2006:
As a kindergarten teacher, I can tell a big difference between boys who are barely 5 and boys who are almost 6. Boys seem to need an extra year in order to be developmentally ready for school. Even in kindergarten, there are times when students need to work independently on a given task. Boys who are younger sometimes seem to struggle with sustaining attention on "school" tasks. I am already thinking about when I will start DS, and will seriously consider waiting until he is 6. These are just my observations...
Thanks for your input! I was hoping some of our younger grade teachers would chime in.
Do you find that the younger boys seem to catch up by the end of the year?

I don't think they catch up by the end of kindergatrten. It is often a year oor two before they do catch up. They just seem not to be developmentally ready and needed an extra year to play.

aztoid2006 · April 2012

Having a student repeat kindergarten is hard to make happen. In my distrct, it really needs to be parent driven to retain a child. Also, the educational research (for the most part) does not show retention to be beneficial. Even at 5/6/7 years old, students know they've been left behind. That is why I would rather keep DS home an extra year, rather than push him because he can technically start school.

amberpro · April 2012

I have taught school for 10 years. I will tell you it is a maturity thing. Girls mature faster than boys, period. Boys also tend to be more active than girls. Combine the 2, and completing work in a very structured setting for 7 hours a day can be very difficult for boys- no matter how smart they are. It leads to more discipline issues and less academic achievement. Losing a year of solid instruction can be detrimental to a student as they get older. The achievement gap gets bigger and bigger every year making it harder for them to ever catch up. I've taught several grades, but am now in fourth. Even as a fourth grade teacher, I can almost always pick out the summer birthdays.

That being said, I think most boys go on to be extremely successful in school no matter the age they start kindergarten as long as they have a solid home foundation and parents/family that are involved in their schooling. I've also seen many parents go ahead and put their younger child in K, then possibly repeating it if the child hasn't fully matured by the end of the year.

I will also state that most of the parents that consider holding their child back are parents of boys born in June-September.

DaisyJanie · April 2012

CarlaAndJames:
I always thought ot had to do with size. Smallest girl in the class, no big deal. But smallest boy could be subject to teasing, not as good at sports when they get into middle school years, stuff like that? Not saying I agree, just what I always thought!

My sister's birthday is in October, and she skipped kindergarten and was put in 1st grade at age 5. She says it's because she was so advanced, but I've always said it was because she was so tall! I'm partly just messing with her but I really think it must have been a factor. She's now 5'10", and even at age 5 was the tallest child in her class. My parents have not settled this argument, I'm guessing that both were factors.

klingb52 · April 2012

aztoid2006:
chuicafina:

aztoid2006:
As a kindergarten teacher, I can tell a big difference between boys who are barely 5 and boys who are almost 6. Boys seem to need an extra year in order to be developmentally ready for school. Even in kindergarten, there are times when students need to work independently on a given task. Boys who are younger sometimes seem to struggle with sustaining attention on "school" tasks. I am already thinking about when I will start DS, and will seriously consider waiting until he is 6. These are just my observations...

Thanks for your input! I was hoping some of our younger grade teachers would chime in.

Do you find that the younger boys seem to catch up by the end of the year?

I don't think they catch up by the end of kindergatrten. It is often a year oor two before they do catch up. They just seem not to be developmentally ready and needed an extra year to play.

I agree 100% and am an elementary teacher who has taught K in the past. Boys struggle with being ready to do what is asked of most students in K. Many times, younger boys are not ready to attend and focus. I don't know about where you all live, but in our district, Kindergarteners are expected to read easy books independently, write 2-3 sentences on a topic (using capitals and punctuation), have spelling tests each week, etc. Kindergarten is not all play/social like it once was. Boys with later birthdays will struggle with the expectations. I do not think that these expectations are realistic of most 5 or 6 year olds, but unfortunately, I don't make the standards. With that being said, I will not hold DS back unless his pre-k teacher doesn't think he is ready or I don't think he is ready. I think that each parent needs to make their own decision based on their own child with guidance from experts, including the pediatrician and preschool teachers.

I also want to point out that there are numerous studies that show that holding a student back in any grade drastically impacts their opportunities for success socially and academically later on. I would personally rather hold my son back from K if he is not ready than have him repeat K (or another grade later on), as I have seen the detrimental effects first hand.

hajski · April 2012

As an educator for the early grades, I have done a lot research on gender differences and how I can best differentiate my instruction. The primary reason is that the standards for Kindergarten and first grade are much more literacy intense than when we were growing up. K is not about play anymore and much more about reading and writing. Boys develop their language and fine motor skills at a different rate than girls. Typically girls are much farther ahead with both of those when entering K. Boys are hard wired to move and girls hard wired to please. (generally I realize there are exceptions) So when K and 1st grade require sitting and listening more than moving and experiencing, boys can fall behind very quickly in reading and writing. Unfortunately, the national standards have made it difficult for educators to do a lot of play based instruction and you will find more and more early el classrooms with a huge emphasis on paper/pencil instruction to prepare the little ones for standards based testing.

Not to mention dodgeball is dangerous. Throwing snowballs is dangerous. Tag is dangerous. No war games. No wrestling. No fake ninja fighting. The list goes on and on for what boys cannot do on the playground and this is their natural outlet for their hard wired aggression and need for movement. So now it is sit all day and then play a certain way outside. Boys get over medicated for ADHD when all they need is the ability to be boys.

So waiting a year to send your boy to school is beneficial for some. However, daycare is expensive, so look for a really good school with a teacher like me. :-) Lol! A teacher who understands gender differences and presents material in a variety of ways so boys and girls can benefit. Or pay tuition for a private boys school that gears instruction to the male brain.

Read Why Gender Matters, Boys Adrift, and Girls on the Edge, all by Leonard Sax.They are good for parenting as well!!

Spartanmama722 · April 2012

I've always thought it was a maturity thing. My brother is a September birthday and I'm a late November birthday. We both started kindergarten before we turned 5. It worked out fine for me, but for my brother, he just wasn't ready and continued to not excel. In the end, my mom opted to have him repeat a grade (I think 6th). The school really didn't want him to repeat, which is why it took so long, and my mom ended up having to take him out and home school him for a few years and then when he went back just enrolled him in the earlier grade. He just never caught up, maturity wise, to the rest of his class. I know my mom has always told me that she wishes she had waited a year to start him.

11kacey · April 2012

I was the oldest child in my class (late September birthday) and I was one of the most immature. I can only imagine how awful it would have been for me if my parents had pushed me to start just before my 5th birthday. I would have been fine intellectually, but I wasn't ready emotionally.

My friend's son was born at the end of May. He is (in my opinion) borderline genius. He was speaking FULL sentences at NINE months. I witnessed it. It's crazy. But, he is one hot mess. He cannot sleep in his own room, he cannot play quietly by himself and throws tantrums quite a bit (more than most 4.5 year olds..)and even has a TV in his room so that his parents can get ONE HOUR of quiet time by themselves. I wish they would hold him back to get a bit more maturity before he starts school, but they want 'the curriculum'.

DaisyJanie · April 2012

hajski:
As an educator for the early grades, I have done a lot research on gender differences and how I can best differentiate my instruction. The primary reason is that the standards for Kindergarten and first grade are much more literacy intense than when we were growing up. K is not about play anymore and much more about reading and writing. Boys develop their language and fine motor skills at a different rate than girls. Typically girls are much farther ahead with both of those when entering K. Boys are hard wired to move and girls hard wired to please. (generally I realize there are exceptions) So when K and 1st grade require sitting and listening more than moving and experiencing, boys can fall behind very quickly in reading and writing. Unfortunately, the national standards have made it difficult for educators to do a lot of play based instruction and you will find more and more early el classrooms with a huge emphasis on paper/pencil instruction to prepare the little ones for standards based testing.

Not to mention dodgeball is dangerous. Throwing snowballs is dangerous. Tag is dangerous. No war games. No wrestling. No fake ninja fighting. The list goes on and on for what boys cannot do on the playground and this is their natural outlet for their hard wired aggression and need for movement. So now it is sit all day and then play a certain way outside. Boys get over medicated for ADHD when all they need is the ability to be boys.

So waiting a year to send your boy to school is beneficial for some. However, daycare is expensive, so look for a really good school with a teacher like me. :-) Lol! A teacher who understands gender differences and presents material in a variety of ways so boys and girls can benefit. Or pay tuition for a private boys school that gears instruction to the male brain.

Read Why Gender Matters, Boys Adrift, and Girls on the Edge, all by Leonard Sax.They are good for parenting as well!!

Hmm, this is all very interesting. There's a Montessori magnet elementary school that just started in my neighborhood - it's not the school we're zoned for but it's close and we could probably get him in. I wonder if that would be a good choice if when he's 5 I don't think he's ready for the traditional classroom.

chuicafina · April 2012

Thank you for all the input from the early educators. It really was very interesting to read all your responses. I actually think it's something I would consider now. I just have to wait and see what kind of kid I have!

chuicafina · April 2012

hajski:

Not to mention dodgeball is dangerous. Throwing snowballs is dangerous. Tag is dangerous. No war games. No wrestling. No fake ninja fighting. The list goes on and on for what boys cannot do on the playground and this is their natural outlet for their hard wired aggression and need for movement. So now it is sit all day and then play a certain way outside. Boys get over medicated for ADHD when all they need is the ability to be boys.

Hold up now...no tag?? That's crazy talk.

MammaBear81 · April 2012

I think maturity, and "kindergarten readiness" has more to do with experiences than physical age. If your child has never been in a structured environment, or worked independently they are going to struggle when they get to kindergarten. I think it is very important for kids to go to preschool (even if it is part time). They need to adapt to a school like environment. It's not like you child turns 5 and is "magically" ready for Kindergarten. It's like learning letters and numbers, if you never point them out/practice them with you child they won't learn them.

DS1 has a September 15th bday and if I "held him back" he would have been in K this year. He is SO BORED with 1st grade right now, I can't imagine him being in a 1/2 day Kindergarten program. I know there are some districts that have a September 1 cut off, and if that was the case we would have done Private kindergarten, and then switched to public for 1st grade.

hajski · April 2012

chuicafina:
hajski:

Not to mention dodgeball is dangerous. Throwing snowballs is dangerous. Tag is dangerous. No war games. No wrestling. No fake ninja fighting. The list goes on and on for what boys cannot do on the playground and this is their natural outlet for their hard wired aggression and need for movement. So now it is sit all day and then play a certain way outside. Boys get over medicated for ADHD when all they need is the ability to be boys.

Hold up now...no tag?? That's crazy talk.

I know. It is crazy. Liability for children putting their hands on others. The boys have so much pent up energy and aggression that it turns to anger or comes out inappropriately in the classroom. Boys need a physical outlet just like girls need their social outlet. Woman have face to face time (coffee, scapbooking, lunch dates) and men have shoulder to shoulder time. (basketball, watching the game, fishing) We are two different beings and schools should accommodate that to give the best possible education. That's why I try really hard to do a lot of movement in my room and get the whole class up and moving every 15 minutes or so. It is difficult because I am confined to my school policies, procedures, etc. I would love to start my own school someday. :-)

AlyciaandRich · April 2012

hajski:
chuicafina:
hajski:

Not to mention dodgeball is dangerous. Throwing snowballs is dangerous. Tag is dangerous. No war games. No wrestling. No fake ninja fighting. The list goes on and on for what boys cannot do on the playground and this is their natural outlet for their hard wired aggression and need for movement. So now it is sit all day and then play a certain way outside. Boys get over medicated for ADHD when all they need is the ability to be boys.

Hold up now...no tag?? That's crazy talk.

I know. It is crazy. Liability for children putting their hands on others. The boys have so much pent up energy and aggression that it turns to anger or comes out inappropriately in the classroom. Boys need a physical outlet just like girls need their social outlet. Woman have face to face time (coffee, scapbooking, lunch dates) and men have shoulder to shoulder time. (basketball, watching the game, fishing) We are two different beings and schools should accommodate that to give the best possible education. That's why I try really hard to do a lot of movement in my room and get the whole class up and moving every 15 minutes or so. It is difficult because I am confined to my school policies, procedures, etc. I would love to start my own school someday. :-)

Teachers at my school are always telling boys not to play bad guys good guys. I try to turn a blind eye unless it gets out of hand. It is just sad.

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