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Blended Families
fellesferie
member
s/o Inappropriate CS usage
fellesferie
member
Gwen's post mentioned her ex claims that he had documentation showing that the CS he pays doesn't get used properly.
Outside of blatant neglect of the kids, what could be construed as inappropriate CS usage? How could it be proven?
This kind of thing comes up here all the time, and I'll admit I get a little defensive. I can think of about 100 different ways XH could complain about my lifestyle if he were interested in creating drama. While no one could contend that DS isn't well cared for, the child certainly doesn't get every little thing he wants. I don't really have any idea how things look from XH's perspective.
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Re: s/o Inappropriate CS usage
When you start to break down basic costs it really isn't a valid argument IMO. I think a lot of people who pay CS are just looking at it as if they hand you say $400 and then they see you the next week with an Ipad or something (as if you have no money of your own
). But if you breakdown the monthly cost of rent/utilities/food/clothing and then assign a percentage to everyone in your household it really adds up. Not to mention the items you purchase on a weekly basis solely for the child. I think the big picture gets overlooked.
Agreed. I think the only thing to prove is that child support is excessive AND the receiving parent is essentially neglecting the child's needs. If child support is low and the mother's income is low then obviously the court makes some allowances (old clothes, limited food options, etc.).
My XH has mentioned on more than one occassion that "you get my money". Not that it's DS who gets the money, but it's me. I wish he could understand that the CS he pays barely covers half the cost of DS' daycare each month. Let's not forget that DS still needs food, clothing, medical expenses, haircuts, toys/recreational activities, housing, etc. each month as well.
I know that it infuriates him that I have a good paying job/career and my life hasn't gone down the shittter since we divorced. He's unemployed, living in his GF's parents house. If I was him, I guess I'd be bitter too.
I just bought a 2012 Dodge Journey and he's seen it twice. I'm honestly shocked I haven't gotten some kind of "nice to see my CS has gotten you a new car" comment yet. He has no clue how much it costs to really, truly raise a child. Not a clue....
I have a friend whose ex has taken her to court so many times trying to "prove" that she misuses child support that she now has it directly deposited into an account in their sons name. Any time she makes a withdrawal she documents what it's for and keeps that together with the reciepts for anything she purchases for him etc...
It makes her life SO much more stressful. And honestly I think it's unnecessary because not once has the court sided with him and reduced child support (and once they even increased it). But she's a control freak like me, so she likes to cover her bases.
I think if you calculate the kids living expenses (food, clothing, school tuition, transportation, hygiene products, medical/dental/vision care, etc...) you'd be able to see how it really adds up. It's the little things that people who complain about child support don't consider. So if XH complained that he pays $400 month and it doesn't cost that for food, clothes and school, you could point out that once you add up the cost of a place to live, transportation, etc... that's completely reasonable.
heres mine and DH's perspective on the CS he pays for SD:
I get really frustrated with the people who say to add up the expenses, atleast in our position. we pay almost $600/ month in CS for SD. we also have to buy her clothes for our house (BM refuses to send any), pajamas, snow boots, bathing suits, etc. toothpaste, shampoo, hair accessories, food and toys when shes here, we pay half her medical bills and extra curricular activities. BM quit her job last year to be a SAHM then bought a brand new jeep. a year later bought a brand new minivan.
I get that its expensive to raise a child. For us, SD is 3x more expensive than DS and he lives with us full time. (due to paying CS and then making purchases for her on top of that) so when BM has a brand new car and is a SAHM and I'm driving a used car and cant afford for DS to do extra curricular acitivites it gets frustrating.
I'm with you! We pay for just as much stuff at our house for SS. BM doesn't even pay for SS to have a stinkin hair cut.
This I think if you pay child support the other parent should have to send the child`s clothes with them when they come for visitation.
We paid a TON of money to have a house in one of the city's best school districts. I wasn't yet pregnant w/ DD when we picked the house, so it was really just with DS in mind. Our mortgage payment would be at least 30% less in another part of town.
We're OCD about car maintenance and repair mainly because we want the kids to be safe.
DS gets tutoring 2x/week ($150/month), does taekwondo (averages about $100/month).
Buuut...
I have no idea if XH side eyes our new car, or the trips we take, or my decision to be a SAHM.
CS hasn't been an issue for us since the CO went through, but it's just something I think about often, especially because of all the posts here.
I sort of see both sides and I think my state's way of CS is very flawed. It's based off the NCP's earnings only and is difficult to adjust.
I get CS. I haven't filed for an increase since it was originally set in 2000 and my Ex pays crap for CS. I sent in a request in January because truthfully it would be nice to have that additional money for DD and I know Ex makes way more now because he made minumum wage then and even minimum wage has increased. I have a separate account which CS goes into. The only time I access that account is for school clothes, activity fees, ect. for DD only. I plan on continuning to save as much as I can to buy DD's first car when she turns 16.
DH pays a huge chunk of CS. DH lost his job in December and tried to file for an adjusment (we heard nothing), then in February he gained a job starting March 1st and as soon as we had his new income he completed the paperwork again and still has heard nothing, even from the original paperwork. He has called and they can't give him a status. This job is a lot less money but he needed a job to support the kids and this was his first offer. After taxes and CS, DH brings home $705 a month....he literally has more money taken out of his check than he brings home. That doesn't even cover the cost of childcare for DS. It is actually cheaper for us for DH to stay home, but he wants to fufill his obligations. DH literally could not support himself if we weren't married at this point. Luckily, I make decent money.
Meanwhile since January, BM and her DH have bought 2 new cars, a boat, all new living room furniture & TV, an Xbox, a new Great Dane, she and her DH went on a ski trip to CO in February, took the kids to FL & universal studios (all things she has mentioned to us or we have seen ourselves) for spring break.
Typically, I don't complain about CS. I do think the kids need support at BM's.We didn't ask for a reduction when DS was born (which our state allows) because we want to support the kids. But when 1 household is struggling because of a job loss and then a drastic change in income and the other household is going hog wild. Something is wrong with the system.
Is she going hog wild just on child support, or is she working herself, or married?
In your situation, I don't think the problem is how BM is spending child support, but how slowly the court is handling your modification request. You guys are struggling right now because of the salary reduction, and the child support order hasn't caught up yet.
I'd resent BM too if we were barely scraping and were trying to get in to modify it, but it really isn't her fault.
I'm not really arguing the fairness of either the system or the rubric for calculation. Some people I know get WAY less than they should, while other people seem to get an obscene amount of CS. I just wonder about NCPs who think that CS isn't being used in the right way, and how they make that determination.
But yes, basically the NCP is required to partially support two homes whereas the CP supports one.
I pack clothes for DS when he's with XH, but I don't feel like it's unreasonable for the NCP to have some essentials on hand. By the same token, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the CP to send 75%+ of the personal belongings the child will need. When I pack, I don't know their plans. So it just seems like good planning for the NCP to have a few things for the kiddo. Also, DS is in a booster seat now, but when he was in a normal carseat, I did require XH to buy one for his car instead of always using mine. It was a safety issue for me.
I imagine that XH and his girlfriend could look at us and see that I'm a SAHM, we have a new car, we travel, have done a lot of home improvements, etc. I have no idea what XH and she are able to afford. I'm not sure how I would put a number on what we spend per kid per month.
Same here, we send over $1400/month and have always provided everything they need while they are here as far as clothing, sports equipment for SS, and haircuts. BM does not work at all and has complained at length about how my DH doesn't have a good enough job and how she doesn't have enough money for anything.
I think about it this way - kids learn from their parents so one the one hand, my SK's have their mom who does not work, is always complaining about money and expects others to provide it for her. I feel like it's especially good for the girls to see that women can work and have nice things and not depend on a man to pay their way so in that regard, I'm kind of glad that they get to see both sides. It's so frustrating somedays though - I wish I could be lazy and have someone pay my way.
I disagree with this statement. My XH pays CS, but it barely covers half the cost of DS' daycare....and that's exactly what I use his CS payments for. To reimburse myself a whopping $76/week of the daycare costs I paid for the week prior. The few times I've sent DS to XH's in an outfit of mine, I either 1) never see it again or 2) have to remind XH several times to return it.
I provide, out of my own pocket/paycheck, all of the clothing for DS while he's with us (which is 85% of the time) I'm not going to send the clothes I'VE purchased to XH's house when odds are likely I'll never see them again. He has DS 6 days/ 4 nights out of the month. He should be able to come up with the means to purchase that many outfits for our child for when he's at his house. Whatever outfit DS comes home in on Sunday, that's the same outfit he goes to daycare in the next Friday XH is picking him up for his weekend. Works for us.
CS usage is a difficult subject in our household. DH has never gone after BM for misuse of funds, because it is too difficult to prove legally and is a total waste of time. He has only ever fought with her about it when SD was 3 and he was using food stamps, working a minimum wage job, and she wanted more money.
DH pays (IMO) a large amount of CS. We know that the CS amount is double the amount of BM's monthly mortgage, so SD's needs should be well taken care of and extra saved. Plus, at the moment, DH pays 100% of SD's out of pocket medical costs. BM has a steady job (9yrs) and just finished her bachelors degree.
My only complaint about CS is that in our calculating state, cost of living is not taken into account. Our housing costs are 125% more than BM's. So between CS and our mortgage each month, DH has barely enough to cover basic bills. We've had to cut back everything to the bare minimums so that when we have SD we can afford clothes, activities, and daycare. If I didn't work overtime and put it into savings prior to summer, we'd be in the red June-August each year when SD is here. I don't think that CS should burden the NCP so much especially during the months when SD lives with us but BM is still getting the CS. There isn't any way to pause it during our parenting time.
And I hate to hear SD say things like "Well, we can't go on vacation at my BM's house because we are too poor there. She doesn't have as much money as you do". I know that BM tells SD frequently that we have more money than she does. It's true, but mostly because I work my ass off and I budget wisely so I can afford things like vacations and summer activities.
So, basically, CS should take into account cost of living and the CP should NOT complain to the child that they are "poor" whilst receiving CS. Just tacky. We would never accuse BM of misusing CS even though we feel that way sometimes. Also tacky.
Mio Marito per Sempre: Married 2009. SD is 12 yrs. DD is 4 yrs.
DS born 12/29/14
Ok I understand where you are coming from but we don`t normally share clothes with BM but on the off chance that something comes here that belongs there, it is always washed and returned as nice as it came. Actually BM has sent SD to us in clothes that are stained and I have taken the time to scrub out the stains before SD goes back to her mother`s. I think it is crazy that BM sends SD to us in the worst/smallest clothes she owns when nothing has ever come back to her dirty or ruined. BM can not use the argument that she pays for childcare with support since we pay 50 percent of childcare in addition to child support.
Oh, I know it's not her fault. I'm saying the system sucks. I mean if I had extra money, we would do those things too. It's just very irritating to watch them spending all that cash while we are basically dealing with DH working only to send CS which it seems they clearly do not need such an high amount at this time.
BM got laid off in 2008. I know she recieved unemployment at that time but I have no idea if she is still receiving it. It is possible because they keep extending it for a lot of people. Her DH works and is paid under the table in cash(she told DH that in a text when they were discussing insurance a month ago). Her DH has a child that they stopped seeing in 2007 (same age as my oldest SS) and they "agreed" to let her mom move 2.5 hours away and they would stop seeing her if she let them stop CS. She actually told DH all this herself when it happened because they had had temporary custody of her for about 6 months at one point. We were actually in contact with that BM because of how her DD was being treated by them in our presence (at my SK's events, ect.) and she also told us that they wanted nothing to do with her to get out of paying CS.
Okay, sorry for the rant. BM and I actually get along well enough and are friendly for the kids, but I secretly despise her as a person because of all that went down with that situation with her SD. I just don't let her know that. You can see from what I just said why paying such high CS to them is sort of irritating especially when DH's pay is lower and the CS is still high. They see it like you are paying to see the kids...which is not right.
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"Karma1969: If baking someone a birthday pie/cake is romantic, I must be a slut."
...because being a full time mother is not "work," and women who SAH are lazy. I never considered CS a handout. What an eye-opener.
I didn't get a chance to see this before now. I se kidding? Did you really really REALLY type this, BagelGirl? Do you have ANY clue what being a SAHM entails? I promise you, I work probably 10 x harder than you do. I dont know your profession, but I'm willing to bet a shitton of 'my husbands money' that I work more than you being a SAHM. I don't hve time to watch TV and 'be lazy'. My husband, who works, watches more television and is way lazier than I'm allowed to be. Be a SAHM for a few days, come to my house and do what I do for 24 hours and tell me SAHM's get to be lazy. What nerve you have.
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"Karma1969: If baking someone a birthday pie/cake is romantic, I must be a slut."
in my experience... i am SM so it sucks paying out 400 a month that i despretely need sometimes...really when my husband was layed off for a long time it was very hard to pay it...we buy all SD clothes/shoes --all her stuff for school--and also carry insurance which is 400 a month... BM works but the stepdad doesnt so they get alot of govt aid idk how but anywho... so she isnt paying for food-her rent is free lives in her moms trailer,she has 2 other boys that she buys alot of stuff for as well they have tvs in their room my SD does not and holidays she gets less and shes starting to notice and ask why so thats hard to explain she spends every holiday with us christmas easter thanksgiving her mom never says id like to spend it with her and she is off every weekend we have SD and works when she has her (she switched weekends with us to get it that way)... so when i see her with new car or talking about buying s 3d TV it irks me more than a lil bit because im driving a vehicle thats about to die and would love to have a new matress but its just not in the budget...
so in my situation i can see where some1 would question where its actually getting used... but i dont say anything and just pay it save fight because i dont want my SD to be put in middle and BM use her as a pawn ... only 10 more yrs of CS lol
Are you for real?
By 9am yesterday, I had picked up the bedrooms, made the beds, cleaned up 4 piles of vomit, changed a 2-yo's outfit 3 times, scrubbed the couch, washed 2 loads of laundry, done the dishes and cleaned the kitchen, fed 2 kids breakfast, gotten one kid off to school, selected and purchased fixtures for our bathroom reno, and swept the main floor of the house.
MH will tell anyone who asks that I have the harder job. I think the reality is that we both have our easy days and our hard days. MH and I both work and have nice things. We support each other in our jobs. I've been a SAHM for 2 years, and I worked for the previous 5. So I've done both, and they both have their pros and cons. But calling SAHMs lazy is totally off base.
I share an office with girl who just came back from maternity leave after having her second child. She works in the office 4 days a week. She said she often feels guilty BUT she also needs the break.
The break being coming to the office. She said it is much easier than being home with two small kids all day every day.
She said getting a 1 hour lunch break is a luxury without having to entertain a small child.
Fells I can identify with you totally. I am not the type to sit around, I swear I often do more on the weekends than during the week and I have no kids and work in a fast paced marketing department.
OP if you are lazy at home then I can only assume you are lazy at work, to me it all depends on the person.
im a SAHM but i also babysit in my home 2 days a week so i have 2 and 3yr old mess makers...id love to sleep in or go to bed early i stay up late to clean id love to go out shopping and not to walmart for groceries... id love to get a haircut afterwork.. heck id love to take a day off but that doesnt happen when ur a SAHM its a 24/7 365 lifetime job... im not complaining i love my kids i just ppl who dont see it for what it really is...I am a maid a teacher a cook a taxi driver an accountant a farmer an organizer a nurse...and i bet the person who keeps your kids if u even have any bagelbimbo would say she is underpaid most days... no one likes to clean up puke etc. no one likes to deal with a whiney child...
My mom worked and I never saw her and when I did she was always to tired to do much and always complaining about work...so when i decided to have kids I wanted to be there for them to comfort them to love them not just pay for them and let some1 else raise them... I want to be close with my children not just the person who buys them toys i want to play with them and teach them everything...
Are you counting up DS's "portion" of the rent/mortgage/taxes, insurance, utilities, food, your car, etc.? Because that is what is included in child support. It's not just clothes and food and school supplies. $600 doesn't cover the cost of daycare where I live.
Obviously every situation is different, but on the whole children of divorced parents experience a SIGNIFICANT decline in standard of living when they live with their mom, and the dad's standard increases.
I dislike the argument that the CP has to put a roof over the child's head and provide food and utilities etc.
I feel like it implies that my DH, as NCP, would leave my SS without a room, furniture, cloths etc at our house.
BM pays rent & we pay our mortgage all in areas and houses that can accommodate children. BM pays bills as do we. BM drives a safe car and puts gas in it as do we and so forth.
SS has a bike, toys etc at our house and BMs.
For sure my DH should pay CS as BM has SS 5 night to his 2 nights so CS of sets the difference.
But dont imply that the NCP does not provide a good home simply because their kid spends less time there.
I'm sorry but what the fliggity flam does this have to do with the actual topic?
Lurker coming out of hiding
I am a BM and just had this conversation, again, with my DD's BF. He argues that his CS is too much, I spend it on what I want, etc. But I didn't determine the amount, the court did. And it's for my DD. I get that the NCP has to maintain their own household, which I believe can be hard.
My frustration in this debate comes from the fact that the EOWW NCP's forget that there is only 2 full days a month the CP is not a parent. I am not able to work overtime, sleep in on Saturdays, get only myself ready for work, go out on a Tuesday to a movie without paying someone to watch my DD, etc. I know the two are not related, but in a way they are- at least in my head. I am frustrated to be lecutred on what I spend my CS on, when my EH goes 6 days without seeing our DD, because he choses to. My state uses a percentage of my income and his income, and based on that precentage I am actually paying more than he is.
My husband pays an insane amount of CS. If you combine the court ordered CS amount ($1200) with how much he's on the hook for with child care (84% of whatever the cost is), he's literally putting out $2000 for my stepson every month, plus he's paying for his health insurance.
We don't usually care about how much he's paying, or where it's going, as long as we can see that SS comes to us every weekend with clothes that fit and are seasonally appropriate, and he's clearly well-fed and being taken care of.
However, when BM pulls things like coming after MH for MORE money, we feel we need to buy a vowel. MH gives her SO much money, and covers SO much of the cost of pre-school, healthcare, etc.... how could BM possibly need him to also cover karate lessons, for example? Isn't that what she should be using the CS for? And if she isn't, where is all that money going? When she moans about how she has "no money because SS is so expensive," it's a little hard to believe... and that's when we question if the CS is being used properly.
Just a NCP point of view!
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Sorry - I wasn't speaking about all SAHM's - just specifically my DH's ex. Here's the thing though, since you brought it up, working moms have to do almost all of those things on top of working. I don't have a maid that comes to do my laundry or dishes or cleaning. I have to get kids dressed and breakfast made and dogs walked just the same except my bathroom fixtures are picked out on my lunch hour or the weekends. Not saying you're lazy but everyone has to do those things - not just SAHM's.
Yeah, I totally know how she feels. I went back to work when DS was about 2, and I clearly remember sitting down at the computer in my office and thinking "wow, this like a vacation." Getting to accomplish things, talking with other (hopefully rational) adults, and having breaks feels amazing.
Now that DD is 2, I've been peeking at job ads lately.
What makes you think she's lazy, though? I have mom friends who stay at home with young kids, and they don't clean or do any real household work during the day. They give the kids their full attention and deal with everything else when the kids are in bed. And I know others that do it the other way--they spend all day running errands, cooking, and cleaning, and just kind of manage the kids. It's hard to know what goes on in anyone's home unless they share their day with you.
My argument wasn't that SAHMs have to do more than working moms. I know that working moms still have to do all those daily tasks--I used to work, too. That's why the mommy war over who has it harder is both ridiculous and beside the point. It's all trade offs and pros and cons; it just comes down to what works the best for the family.
My point was that it's pretty hard for a SAHM to be lazy. I'm sure there are people who can and do manage to slack off all day every day, but I often have a very full day just taking care of the kids, and doing fairly standard household tasks. And I say that as someone who gets a lot of help.
Also, while I get your point about setting a good example for your stepkids, I don't feel that I set any less of a positive example for my kids. I've done a lot of things--I've been the breadwinner in a dual income family, I've been a working single mom, I've been the provider in a single income family, and I've been a SAHM. I don't think any of those roles have informed the kind of role model I am for my kids.