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Babies: 3 - 6 Months
Pelusa214
member
Just started reading Ferber, and now I'm even MORE confused :(
Pelusa214
member
WTH??
First off, he says that babies need like 2 hours LESS sleep than ALL the other sleep books say.
We have Weissbluth saying that your child's sleep problems may completely resolve if you put them to bed EARLIER, and that more sleep begets more sleep.
Then, we have Ferber saying that your child's sleep problems may completely resolve if you put them to bed LATER, and that if they are sleeping 12 hours at night, they aren't going to nap, and that if you cut down on their night sleep, they will start to nap.
I don't even know what to do with my poor kid anymore. And honestly, I don't think I can take putting her to bed at 9 pm, because this means basically ZERO awake time for me without the kids. As it is, I am with them 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. My mother or MIL will only take one of them at a time, and DH works almost constantly. My ONLY alone time is the hour between when my 2 kids go to be and when I go to bed. 9 hours at night for the baby would be like 9 pm until 6 am. I myself can't function on less than 8 hours of sleep (which is contributing to my stress & inability to cope with this), so the prospect of this makes me wanna have a meltdown, especially because I'm not confident that cutting down on her night sleep will actually make her nap.
I've only read 2 chapters, but the contradictions between his amounts of sleep and the amounts that ALL the other books I've read give are making me so confused as to how to proceed. The baby is already having a massive meltdown by 6 pm. She can't even stay awake to finish bottles because she doesn't nap enough. How on earth am I gonna keep her up until 9 pm??
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Re: Just started reading Ferber, and now I'm even MORE confused :(
That's the problem - I haven't found a way that works
She's been sleeping 7-8pm until 6-7:30 am, waking twice to eat, and crying almost all day long because she refuses to nap & is exhausted. I wouldn't be reading all of these books if I'd found something that works. My family is in total turmoil & has been for 4 1/2 months. We can't take it much longer. 
Just trust your instinct and try to take something useful from each book and ignore what isn't applicable. I read Ferber when my 3 year old was a baby and found it really helpful. However, he always slept 7pm-7am and was an awful napper. I remember trying to shorten night sleep and it was a disaster of overtired baby. Not worth it IMO. All babies are different. I can already tell my DD requires a good 1-2 hours more sleep a day then my DS did at this age or she is inconsolable.
I would so be calling a sleep expert at this point. Do you know if there are any in your area?
Sleeping 7-8pm until 6-7:30 am is pretty good, and waking twice a night is normal at her age. Honestly, she's still little. Your life has been in turmoil because you had a baby!! It will get easier, and the worst is over. I've read both books, and I think you have to take parts from each. We used the sleep training from Ferber, but the info and knowledge about sleep from Healthy Sleep. We put my son to bed between 6 and 6:30 every night, and he gets up around 5:30, waking anywhere from 0-2 times a night. Some nights are better than others.
I read recently that good naps don't start until about 6 months, napping is harder to figure out than night sleep. I'd do the same routine you have at night for naps-- dark room, white noise, swaddle (or whatever you do), and lay them down at the right time (about 2 hours after last wake time). I try and just survive through naps and let him nap wherever-- in his swing, on me, in the carrier, car, stroller, crib-- wherever.
Hang in there, it gets better.
*hugs Pelusa*
Maybe try some baby massage to add to the routine? Is there anything that your DD likes? Songs, sounds?
your night sleep is pretty darn great for her age.
have you tried wearing her for naps? You need to think of your alone time and her sleep time as separate issues, kwim? If you need more alone time, ask for help.
Do you have a consistent bed time routine? Maybe you need one for nap time?
She's been sleeping 7-8pm until 6-7:30 am, waking twice to eat, and crying almost all day long because she refuses to nap & is exhausted
I am by no means trying to diminish your frustration, but I guess I don't understand the problem. Regarding sleep, getting 11-12 hours per night sounds good. Not napping....well that's pretty common at this age, right?
The real problem seems to be her attitude during the day. Crying all day doesn't sound fun at all. Have you explored other issues? Is she hungry? Does she need more stimulation or less stimulation? Has she been evaluated by her pedi for some underlying health issue? Is she teething? Does she have gas?
ETA: I should add that I haven't read any books regarding sleep. I just sort of go with the flow...this could be breaking every law of sleep, but it has worked for us.
If you do want to talk to someone, I'd just google "sleep consultant" and where you live or ask your pedi office for recommendations. Honestly they may not have as much help for a 4 month old as they would with an older baby because they are still little and figuring out their sleep patterns. If it makes you feel any better, my DD was a 30 minute napper too and just this week, out of the blue, morning nap became 2 hours! Hope baby girl does the same too.
You are right, her nighttime sleep is not too bad...certainly is good compared to my DD#1. The problem is bedtime and daytime, really. By the time bedtime comes, she's so exhausted from not napping that she can't finish her last bottle usually, because she passes out. Whether she finishes it or not, she always wakes up 1/2 hour later crying & I have to rock her back to sleep. Sometimes she goes back with just a minute or two of shhhh & some pats on the butt, sometimes I have to rock & bounce her while she cries hysterically for 20 minutes. Sometimes this happens again another 1/2 hour later. During the day, she won't go down for a nap without the same rocking, bouncing, walking, and hysterics. 20 minutes of this for a 20 minute nap. She's happy for about 20-30 minutes after she wakes, then cranky, cranky, cranky. She gets more & more tired as the day goes on & she only takes 1 or 2 more 20 minute naps. By 6 pm she's a nightmare.
I've tried every awake window, wind-down, white noise, the whole 9 yards. We've talked to the pedi about it, and they're more concerned that she's still waking at night to eat than that she's cranky during the day. She's seeing a GI dr. for reflux & milk protein intolerance, and is on meds for reflux & on Alimentum. It's not a sleep regression, this has been going on since she was 1 month old at least. She doesn't eat well, and will often refuse to drink more than 3-4 oz, but then scream hungry 1.5-2 hours later, then only drink another 3 oz. We've tried to stretch her longer, hoping she'd eat more, but she doesn't.
I'm convinced there's absolutely nothing physically wrong with her. With DD#1, she woke every 2 hours all night long & would take 1-2 hours to get back to sleep. She did this for 9 months, and I just knew something was wrong, so I got up with her & held her & never let her cry. We finally switched pedis at 9 months, she got on reflux meds, and was sttn in 10 days. This time, I really don't think there's anything wrong with my LO except that she's overtired.
I'm saying I'm confused because what I've read from Ferber so far is making me feel like she's not napping because she's sleeping 12 hours at night. But I really am afraid to mess with her bedtime since nighttime isn't too bad. Plus, I know he's the Great Ferber and all, but 12 hours total for a 4 month old doesn't seem like enough to me.
I'm no expert, but after 4 months with my son, I think I've got it down pretty well and I would say 12 hours at night is perfect. I would NOT mess with that. I'm guessing the problem lays with her eating issues. If you can resolve them, your life would probably be great.
For us, napping is all about timing. I MUST put him down right at the first sign of getting tired, generally about 2 hours after he wakes. If I miss his cues, the morning nap will most likely not happen. I entertain him continuously from wake until his first nap, this way I wear him out and I don't miss the cues. Then once he is down, I can get stuff done. I find that nap #2 is not a critical as nap #1, so I stress over the cues later in the day.
As for sleeping methods, I use a combination of both. I believe more sleep is better and I let him put himself to sleep. My son is still sleeping in the swing for his naps, but we will transition to his crib soon. However, if I were you, I would use the swing until you have established a routine or at least until you can get her to nap at all.
Also, I have noticed if I put him down before he is completely tired out, it's a battle and then he typically only sleep 20-30 minutes. So you might want to try to keep her really stimulated in the morning. Get her all tuckered out and watch for cues. It works like a charm for us. It does require you to entertain continuously, but the pay off is totally worth it.
This. We did this with DS. I had HSHHC and Ferber. We used Ferber's graduated extinction b/c DS couldn't get to sleep on his own and we didn't like HSHHC's full extinction method. But we went by the amount of sleep in HSHHC. DS still needs more sleep than average. I like Ferber's explanation of why sleep is necessary. Weisbluth sort of talks in circles, while Ferber puts it into really easy terms. Weisbluth tells you sleep is important, but ferber really gives you the "how to".
I have stood where you are standing and it isn't pretty. Sleep deprivation and 2 kids is a bear. But just trust your instincts and do what you need to do. Figure out what it is that is really driving you nuts (for us, it was DS not being able to get to sleep on hos own, so he woudl wake and need bouncing/rocking every hour and a half). Deal with that issue and the rest will follow!
Thank you for this. I also have both books & find that figuring out what Weisbluth is actually saying is like decoding a Sudoku puzzle. But I do agree that, in my own experience with DD#1, sleep begets sleep. It's not been my experience that reducing nighttime sleep EVER resulted in anything good, which is why I'm skeptical that if my 4 month old sleeps 11-12 hours at night (although not uninterrupted), I am keeping her "in bed too long". What IS driving me nuts is the SCREAMING to get her to sleep for every nap (screaming in my arms) and then her only sleeping 20 minutes and being cranky & exhausted by 2 pm. It's also driving me nuts that bedtime lasts 2 hours every night because first, she can't stay awake for her last bottle (because she's not napping enough), and then she wakes up 30 minutes later screaming & we have to either give her the rest of the bottle or rock her back to sleep. Sometimes she wakes up AGAIN another 30 minutes later. Meanwhile I've got a toddler to put to bed and at least 1/2 the week I'm doing this alone because of DH's work schedule. That nonsense is just not working for my family, and I really don't think there's anything "wrong" with my LO except that she hates to go to sleep, is unable to self-soothe, and is overtired all the time.
Right now I'm going to go with the flow a little longer, seeing as how sometimes she wakes in the night & just starts babbling & if we leave her, she will put herself back to sleep. Obviously if she's sleepy enough she can do it. Maybe if we keep leaving her, she'll get better at it without us needing to do too much Ferberizing. I'll give her another month or so, and that should give me enough time to finish reading the book. Then, it's gonna be time to get mean