Food for thought re. abortion

RayRay007 · March 2012

I know this has been a hot topic around here, so I thought I'd share what a friend posted on fb: If the fetus you save is gay, will you still fight for its rights?

The insinuation is that pro-lifers are homophobes.

Interesting and inflammatory.

CopperT0p · March 2012

This would be the reason I hide most of my high school friend's news feeds on FB.

bananarama11 · March 2012

ItsAllGravy7:
It seems that many people who are pro-life are in fact also anti-gay rights or at minimum supporting a political party/politicans who are.

This.

I think that is aimed at people who are both pro-life and anti-gay rights. Not just everyone who is one or the other.

RayRay007 · March 2012

ItsAllGravy7:
It seems that many people who are pro-life are in fact also anti-gay rights or at minimum supporting a political party/politicans who are.

She also commented: "Religion or Love, you decide"

I don't know her well and don't know for sure what she's getting at, but it seems she's saying that pro-life and anti-gay rights are based only in religion, and that and love is mutually exclusive.

I would not get into politics and religion on FB.

RayRay007 · March 2012

LoisLane23:

ItsAllGravy7:
It seems that many people who are pro-life are in fact also anti-gay rights or at minimum supporting a political party/politicans who are.

I assume that was the point the FB'er was trying to make. As in, if the fetus were gay, it would be ok to abort it.

Yes, but also, you fought for its rights as an unborn human, but you wont fight for its rights as a born human if it turns out to be gay.

[Deleted User] · March 2012

The user and all related content has been deleted.

RayRay007 · March 2012

IrishCoffee7:
RayRay007:

ItsAllGravy7:
It seems that many people who are pro-life are in fact also anti-gay rights or at minimum supporting a political party/politicans who are.

She also commented: "Religion or Love, you decide"

I don't know her well and don't know for sure what she's getting at, but it seems she's saying that pro-life and anti-gay rights are based only in religion, and that and love is mutually exclusive.

I would not get into politics and religion on FB.

Truth is that religion is almost always the basis for anti-gay and anti-abortion stances. I think that's what she's trying to say, while also pointing out the glaring hypocrisy of a lot of people who hold both of those opinions. And that many of them, particularly the anti-gay ones, are fueled by ignorance and hate.
To me she's definitely stirring the pot, which I try not to do, but I see what she's saying and agree for the most part. '

I am not saying religion=hatefulness. I am saying that most of the ignorant and hateful stances are justified by people who skew religion to defend their position.

Yep, I agree. And I think it would be interesting to ask pro-lifers if they would still support a fetus they saved if it turned out to be gay. But I would not put it out there on fb or imply that religion=hate.

RayRay007 · March 2012

SookieFrackhouse68:
Pro-life and anti-gay also seems to go hand-in-hand with hating social welfare programs. Don't abort your fetus, but fcuk you, stay away from mah money.

Haha yeah, exactly.

RayRay007 · March 2012

CTGirl30:

Yeah, I take her followup "Religion or Love" comment to be questioning whether an anti-abortion advocate holds that viewpoint due to their religion telling them it is morally wrong or for love of the potential child...and in the case that it would be the latter, than shouldn't they also be tolerant of gay rights if that baby should indeed turn out to be gay? Since if you are advocating not having an abortion for the love of the fetus, then you will (theoretically) love whatever the resulting child ends up being - straight OR gay or whatever else. Whereas if the anti-abortion viewpoint is based mainly in religious principles, then not so much likely to love the resulting baby if it does turn out to be gay. Because you know, the gays are all morally corrupt and all that.

Very inflammatory indeed.

Oh, that's an interesting way of looking at it. And a good point.

RayRay007 · March 2012

ItsAllGravy7:
OP- Is there any other Anti-gay argument other than religion? I've never heard one.

Well, not exactly that I know of, but I think a lot of people that are anti-gay rights because of religion are only so because they were raised that way by their family or the church. A lot of people fall back on it as an 'excuse' but don't understand what the real religious argument is. They can't point to passages in the bible or make a coherent argument as to why homosexuality is bad, but, you know, "it's against my religion".

emsumm · March 2012

RayRay007:
ItsAllGravy7:
It seems that many people who are pro-life are in fact also anti-gay rights or at minimum supporting a political party/politicans who are.

She also commented: "Religion or Love, you decide"

I don't know her well and don't know for sure what she's getting at, but it seems she's saying that pro-life and anti-gay rights are based only in religion, and that and love is mutually exclusive.

I would not get into politics and religion on FB.

Lol, you don't know what she's trying to get at? It seems fairly obvious to me...

RayRay007 · March 2012

emsumm:
RayRay007:

ItsAllGravy7:
It seems that many people who are pro-life are in fact also anti-gay rights or at minimum supporting a political party/politicans who are.

She also commented: "Religion or Love, you decide"

I don't know her well and don't know for sure what she's getting at, but it seems she's saying that pro-life and anti-gay rights are based only in religion, and that and love is mutually exclusive.

I would not get into politics and religion on FB.

Lol, you don't know what she's trying to get at? It seems fairly obvious to me...

Well, is she saying that either you can believe in religion or you can believe in love, and they are mutual exclusive? Not all religious ppl are pro-life and anti-gay rights. Or is she saying pro-lifers have to choose between religion or love as the basis of their belief?

J+MS · March 2012

Oh Jezzus. I'm pro fetus in most situations but I don't give a flying fcuk if the gays get married. Love and peace for everyone.

MrsWindyCity · March 2012

SookieFrackhouse68:
Pro-life and anti-gay also seems to go hand-in-hand with hating social welfare programs. Don't abort your fetus, but fcuk you, stay away from mah money.

This is why I think a lot of pro-lifers should actually be called pro-birth.

But anyway, this (the fetus/gay thing) is a popular bumper sticker. I've seen it many times, although the most common I've seen is "may the fetus you save turn out to be gay."

rimjobrock · March 2012

RayRay007:
LoisLane23:

ItsAllGravy7:
It seems that many people who are pro-life are in fact also anti-gay rights or at minimum supporting a political party/politicans who are.

I assume that was the point the FB'er was trying to make. As in, if the fetus were gay, it would be ok to abort it.

Yes, but also, you fought for its rights as an unborn human, but you wont fight for its rights as a born human if it turns out to be gay.

I didn't read the rest of the responses so I'm not sure if this was mentioned. I get her point and all that. IMO it would fall on deaf ears since most anti gays believe that being gay is a choice.

srs5624 · March 2012

ItsAllGravy7:
OP- Is there any other Anti-gay argument other than religion? I've never heard one.

There's the people who are anti-gay because they're afraid the gay people will hit on them.

Then there's the people who won't let their son wear a pink shirt because they're afraid it will make him gay. They're usually the ones who see no problem with a girl wearing blue t-shirt, but a boy wearing a pink t-shirt... OMG ONOZ!

Who can tell what kind of area I live in?

LilyRose28 · March 2012

srs5624:
ItsAllGravy7:
OP- Is there any other Anti-gay argument other than religion? I've never heard one.

There's the people who are anti-gay because they're afraid the gay people will hit on them.

Then there's the people who won't let their son wear a pink shirt because they're afraid it will make him gay. They're usually the ones who see no problem with a girl wearing blue t-shirt, but a boy wearing a pink t-shirt... OMG ONOZ!

Who can tell what kind of area I live in?

Yeah, I was gonna say, there does seem to be a group that think being gay is gross. Or contagious or something. Like the idea of two women together is hot and they can get off to that but the idea of two men having sex is repulsive. Or just that being gay = feminine and they're manly men who don't want to be associated with that.

Heather R · March 2012

I think some people are missing the point: it points out the hypocrisy of the Right who believe in life for all but liberty for only some.

There are absolutely no legal, secular arguments to make against gay marriage.

Heather R · March 2012

ItsAllGravy7:
Heather R:

I think some people are missing the point: it points out the hypocrisy of the Right who believe in life for all but liberty for only some.

There are absolutely no legal, secular arguments to make against gay marriage.

Was that not obvious?

apparently not.

srs5624 · March 2012

Heather R:
ItsAllGravy7:
Heather R:

I think some people are missing the point: it points out the hypocrisy of the Right who believe in life for all but liberty for only some.

There are absolutely no legal, secular arguments to make against gay marriage.

Was that not obvious?

apparently not.

Example?

I feel like I missed something. I only skimmed some of the posts, but I thought everyone in here got it.

Kitiara5512 · March 2012

ItsAllGravy7:
It seems that many people who are pro-life are in fact also anti-gay rights or at minimum supporting a political party/politicans who are.

bingo

winomom22 · March 2012

It also seems that most pro-lifers are pro-death penalty which seems contradictory to me.

srs5624 · March 2012

ItsAllGravy7:
kirky05:

I'm definitely not disagreeing at all, I was just addressing ItsAllGravy's question as far as if there are other arguments against gay rights beside the religious one.

Just to clear that up in case people thought I wasn't getting the point.

Reading what some of the people on here have to say about things makes me so happy I grew up how I did with the parents/family I have. Oy.

Weird thing is, I have two lesbian aunts (not an aunt and her girlfriend... but two separate aunts who each have girlfriends), a lesbian cousin, said cousin's daughter is a lesbian, my step-mom's best friend is a lesbian (I've known this woman since I was 6 years old) and I have a great-great-aunt whom I've always suspected to be a lesbian. That aunt never came out, but she is a great-great-aunt... so she was raised in a different era.

My family (well, my dad's side anyway) is as homophobic as they come. Complete Romney/Santorum supporters all the way. They prefer their women barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. In their minds, "gay" is contagious and will happen if you let your son wear pink or do housework (aka "woman's work"). They're appalled that there is a black man in the white house 'cause well... form your own conclusion there. They'd be content if we could go back to 1774.

Obviously, I'm of a different mind than they are. I'm the black sheep. They make fun of me constantly for being so "weird".

EVA116 · March 2012

But all of us push how we live on other people a little....we have to push what we believe or nothing would change.

jlthompson19 · March 2012

ItsAllGravy7:
OP- Is there any other Anti-gay argument other than religion? I've never heard one.

I had an argument with a friend of a friend on FB once b/c she tried to say she's against gay marriage b/c they only want to do it for the $ and it would further drag down our economy. She kept talking about these great marital tax breaks the gays were pining for and told me to find a new accountant when I told her I couldn't figure them out.

epopp85 · March 2012

naybride04:
It also seems that most pro-lifers are pro-death penalty which seems contradictory to me.

I'm pro death penalty because those people have done something, personally, to earn it. Something that we, as a society, have decided that is so egregious we cannot ever allow that person back into our, or any other society.

A baby has done nothing except exist, which it did not choose for itself.

FTR, I'm pro gay marriage and don't care who anyone wants to be with, so if a baby turned out to be gay, good for it. At least it had the opportunity.

LilyRose28 · March 2012

epopp85:
naybride04:
It also seems that most pro-lifers are pro-death penalty which seems contradictory to me.

I'm pro death penalty because those people have done something, personally, to earn it. Something that we, as a society, have decided that is so egregious we

I'm pro-death penalty for pro-lifers that kill abortion doctors.

Heather R · March 2012

epopp85:

I'm pro death penalty because those people have done something, personally, to earn it. Something that we, as a society, have decided that is so egregious we cannot ever allow that person back into our, or any other society.

A baby has done nothing except exist, which it did not choose for itself.

So you're not pro-life then. All life is either sacred or it's not. This is why the correct term is anti-choice, not pro-life. I believe even the Catholic Church, one of the most socially conservative institutions in existence, is anti death penalty for this reason: all life is sacred.

Also, apparently you either do not know or do not care about the statistics of innocent people on death row and the gross percentages of such cases involving police misconduct, lawyer misconduct such as leaving out exculpatory evidence, convictions based on problematic evidence, and the disproportionate role of race in death penalty cases. If you believe the innocent should live, then why would you support running the risk of executing the innocent?

Yules · March 2012

<--- Pro choice, pro death penalty, anti welfare...kill em all. I'm too lazy to read through the "aborted gay baby" stances, but I say, all embryos/fetusi should have an equal right to be aborted.

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