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June 2011 Moms
Discussion Topic: Seatbelts on Buses
I was just reading a terrible article about a school bus crash here in Indy. The driver and one child have passed, 2 in critical condition and many other hurt. It's so sad.
But, in the comments below the article there were a lot of comments about "why don't they have seat belts on these buses" and people coming back with the many reasons why they shouldn't.
I was just curious if people felt like they should have them.
[Poll]
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Discussion Topic: Seatbelts on Buses
We had a school bus accident in NJ about a month ago. It killed one girl, severely injured her two other sisters (they are triplets) and another boy. None of them were wearing seat belts.
They all need to wear them and for younger school children there needs to be an aide on the bus to ensure they do wear them.
I said no. My dad is a school bus driver. He has explained it to me before, and it made sense at the time. However, I can't remember why or what exactly he said.
I know there really are good reasons as to why they don't have them though.
If the good really outweighed the bad, I would think that this would have happened (installing seatbelts on buses) a long time ago. I think what it comes down to is what is something catostrophic happens to the bus, say a bus fire or whatev...actually a bus fire is probably the best reason (or...wasn't it not too long ago a bus got stuck on a train crossing?). To go through and get all of those kids unbuckled and out of there...I just don't see that ending well.
It's like right now...in my area, we've had at least 3 wrong-way incidents on the major interstate system...6 dead from two of these (one of the accidents just happened overnight) and so many people are saying "why don't we have spikes on entraces ramps to prevent this?" Same as people are saying "why aren't there seatbelts on buses." I'm sure this option has been looking at...thoroughly researched, etc. and what it comes down to is the potential to do more harm than good. We are not the experts on the subject so we can speculate all we want...but I will leave matters like this to the experts who have done the tons and tons of research necessary and knows all the angles and the hows and the whys and whatever else.
In the article I read it mentioned: bus fires (you have 2 minutes before it blows to get all the kids out of thier belts and off the bus), buses in water (if they are not buckled they are more likely to be able to get out)
Interesting....I just don't see how it is different than a car though. I would really like to know the reasons...maybe I will refer to google for this one.
Very different than a car - especially in that one or maybe a few adults responsible for getting a lot of kids to safety.
Because in a car you have a 1 to 1 or at most probably 1-4 ratio of adults to little kids. In a bus if it's one adult, 40 kids, the adult has no chance of getting all those kids unbuckled and off the bus in time to save them.
Agree with everything said above.
Interesting article discussing pros and cons to seat belts.
Interesting stat pulled from linked article:
About 440,000 public school buses carry 24 million children more than 4.3 billion miles a year, but only about six children die each year in bus accidents, according to annual statistics compiled the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. About 800 children, by contrast, die every year walking, biking or being driven to school in cars or other passenger vehicles, said Ron Medford, the agency's deputy director.
FYI...this is just the first article I pulled up from a quick Google search. I am in no way suggesting that it be taken as the be all end all source on seat belts in buses.
This I mean I don't get it. It is a bus to carry kids. Why shouldn't it have seatbelts to protect them. I would love it if Kimbo can remember and share with you the rationalle.
Can't they just make a seat belt that the kids can self release or that immediatley release in an emergency like an air bag. Make the seat belt release 5 seconds after impact.
Well buses are far heavier and far safer than cars. They are far less likely to be crushed or damaged in an accident than a car would be.
I also totally agree with the fire stuff.
Real question (not a snarky question): Who is going to pay for these self release seat belts (or any seat belts for that matter) when statistically the numbers just don't add up?
Kids will take them off and something else that could end up being faulty at the time of the accident,
You know, when it comes down to it, I just hate the whole bus system. Where else in a school district is it okay for one adult to be with 40+ students?? There should be more adults on the bus for safety reasons.
I understand the threat of fire, getting all of the students out quickly. I just remember riding the bus and kids were all over the place. Our bus driver had no control. In that case, he wouldn't have been able to make us sit down and buckle our seatbelts anyway. Looking back on it, it was quite dangerous.
I am all for having a bus aid or something. Someone to watch the kids that way the driver can concentrate of the road.
The same taxes we pay for currently bus transportation. Where the #'s really don't add up to me is here. What is the comparison of the # of school bus accidents involving fire and water compared to everyday road accidents. I would have to see stats but I think more kids would be saved via seatbelts than harmed. Also, here we go again with putting a price on children?s lives. It does not seem to me to be if there is an argument on the plausibility of the technology but rather the cost. There is no cost for me on saving a child?s life, even if it is just one child.
This reminds me of an invention show on TV a few yrs back kind of like The Shark Tank where a man successfully invented, developed and produced a car seat that would rock in a violent impact so that the energy of the crash goes into the rocking motion instead of being transferred to the child. The ?Sharks? loved the idea and they saw how it worked flawlessly but they thought it would be cost prohibitive since it would have to retail for almost $1k. per seat.
There could be an alarm that goes off it the device feels a childs weight in the seat but not belt is buckled if the bus is moving.
The bus driver should not have put up with that! My dad would never let that happen. The kids really like my dad. He gets all kind of Christmas and end-of-the-year presents. However, they still know he's the authority figure. He has control of the bus.
Plus, I think he gets moderated from time to time. If a driver doesn't have control, then that should show on eval days. If the kids don't respect the driver, they aren't going to expect the moderator.
I understand the concept that 1 bus driver can't unbuckle 40+ students and get to safety, but my 6 and 4 year old know how to buckle, and unbuckle their car seats, I'm sure they would be able to unbuckle a seat belt on a bus. Our schools also have an aid on the bus for elementary schools, although I think it might be better (for the driver) to have them for the middle and high schools!
To the poster that remembers seat belts on buses, I remember them as well. I think it was a certain bus company in our area that had them, because not all the buses did, and they looked like the same seat belts that they use in air planes.
Ha, our bus driver was the polar opposite! He would get so mad he would pull the bus over and yell and scream. It was awful. That was a long time ago...I hope bus drivers like him aren't allowed to drive bus anymore!
Busses are designed to keep people compartmentalized. This is the safety mechanism. Lap belts would likely cause more injury In a crash than prevent any. Of course this only works when kids are seated properly.
My bus driver also had no control. I did ride in a bus one time that had seat belts and they were really hard to undo. I cried because I couldn't get mine undone and I missed my stop. I think I was in first grade or something.
I've heard that lap belts will actually cause more injuries than they prevent and that shoulder harnesses are ineffective and can be dangerous if not worn properly. I think the reason they don't use the shoulder harnesses is because each one would have to be done up by an adult to make sure that they were on correctly, which would take a lot of time.
Someone also told me once, I don't know if it's true or not, anyway they told me that buses with seat belts also increase injuries because of kids hitting each other with the straps and buckles when they are not wearing them.
So I guess maybe seat belts would work if there were a lot of extra adults around to get the kids buckled up and to babysit them while on the bus to make sure no one was taking their belts off.
I drive one of the smaller buses - the ones with seat belts. My kids can all undo their own buckles, most of the time. Sometime they are harder to undo and if they are panicking they aren't going to be able to do it.
As for the 'long' buses - Having to wait for all of those kids to get off and then going back to undo the rest would take forever. Trying to properly adjust a seatbelt for each child would take quite a bit of time. I see them causing much more harm than good.