Has anyone used sleep consultants?

ColleenS629 · February 2012

I have read so many books... Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Twins, Ferber, The No-Cry Sleep Solution, Babywise... and I still cannot get my kids to sleep. We were up 9 times last night, 7 the night before. I can't keep doing this. The exhaustion is wearing on me to the point that I'm getting dizzy while driving, holding the babies, etc. and it's really making me nervous. The pedi is no help. She says they should have been sleeping 6-8 hour stretches a month and a half ago and 10 hour stretches by now. Her only suggestion was to stop feeding them every time they woke up and they would learn to sleep through. I started feeding them once over night at that point. We started that at two months and it's obviously not working. She says just keep trying until 6 months and then Ferber them. No sleep for more than 2 more months is not really an option for me if I can help it. I go to a MoMs support group monthly and the leader started a company that sends an RN to your house to help you with the babies with whatever you need.. sleep, scheduling, etc. but it costs $40/ hour and there is no time frame that they give you for it to work so one night of sleep help from 8pm-6am, for example, would be $400 and it would obviously take at least several nights. I'd do it in a heartbeat at this point if they told me it would work within so many sessions but obviously they can't give that kind of guarantee. Since I am not working and that is very expensive, she recommended a company called Isis located in Boston. They do a sleep consult over the phone. I also found The B.aby Sleep Site that creates sleep plans for you via email. I'm just wondering if anyone has used a service like this before and how helpful it was. I don't want to spend the money if they are just going to tell me things I have already read and can't get to work but I am in desperate need of some sleep.

ETA: Even though the pedi says they should be sleeping 10 hours at a time, I really don't expect that of them... I do expect them to start sleeping better to the point that we're waking up no more than 3 or 4 times a night... even less would be preferable.

olivia_eve · February 2012

I have not, but I also think your pedi is kind of nuts. At DS's 4 month appointment, his pedi just said, "He's not sleeping well, right? Yeah, he probably won't sleep for a few more months." DS is a pretty bad sleeper, last night was a good night and he was up 5 times, but he's had nights where he wakes up every hour. We're basically trying to survive as best we can until after we move and he turns 6 months. Are they in the same room and waking each other? Maybe you could split them up and you handle one kid and your DH the other? Sleep deprivation sucks, I dread the nights because I know I'm going to be up all night long. I wish I had more advice, lots of hugs to you!

ColleenS629 · February 2012

RachaelA:
Your pedi is full of crap. The majority of babies do not sleep 10 hour stretches at 3 months ESPECIALLY BF babies. Yes some do, but its not the majority. Plus you are approaching the 4 month wakeful period. Read some of the posts on the 3-6 month board. You will see plenty of women who are 2nd time moms who say that their first didn't STTN until 9+ months.
Are the boys waking each other up? Can you put them in different rooms? I do agree that 7-9 times a week is a lot and it should probably be less.

It's frustrating because every mom I know IRL says their babies were sleeping 7-7 or 8-6 or some 10-12 hours by the time they were 3-4 months old... literally every single mother I know IRL. Like I said, I'm not expecting them to sleep that much but this is ridiculous. Regarding the 4 month wakeful, I can't blame that because they have always slept like this. It's not like they were sleeping well and this is something new.

They sometimes wake each other up if they are in a light sleep but if they are in a deep sleep they don't. We can't put their cribs in different rooms. The best we could do is temporarily move one in a PnP to the office/ guest room.

ColleenS629 · February 2012

Scout2005:
Your pedi thinks they should be sleeping for 10 hours at 3 months?
LMAO.
They sound pretty normal to me, to be honest. I like the Ferber method, we used it to help DD get to sleep around 5.5-6 months, and it worked beautifully. She is a great sleeper.
But she was still "only" giving us 6-8 hour stretches at 3 months, and we were crazy lucky with that.

They are 16 weeks today and will be 4 months in 9 days.

Waking every 20 minutes- 2 hours sounds normal at almost 4 months? I really don't think that sounds normal. Even if it was every 2 hours all night that would still be an improvement but 9 wakings in a 9 hour period is too many IMO.

KCKSarah · February 2012

I agree with Rachael. Lo certainly wasn't sleeping 10 hours a night at three months. At then at closer to four months, well let's just say it got worse. Then suddenly around 5-6 months something finally clicked with me. And I was reading her sleep cues better or something. We did a modified CIO and now she consistently sleeps 10.5-11.5 hours a night.

GL mama! Do what you need to do to get through it and don't look back.

Kevswife05 · February 2012

I would find a new PEDI stat! My son was up every two hours till he was 7 months old. He finally started sleeping 6 hour stretches after that. He still wakes up once a night. A 3 month old needs to eat every few hours, it is totally normal.

ravenorchid · February 2012

I agree that your pedi sounds a bit off. DD actually was giving 8 hour stretches from 2-3 mos. But for the last two mos, he's been up every night, usually every 2 hours or so. Our pedi says it could be teething or a growth spurt. Every 20 min does seem like a lot, but I don't know much about twins' sleep patterns. I'm sure a sleep consultant couldn't hurt.

ColleenS629 · February 2012

Kevswife05:
I would find a new PEDI stat! My son was up every two hours till he was 7 months old. He finally started sleeping 6 hour stretches after that. He still wakes up once a night. A 3 month old needs to eat every few hours, it is totally normal.

Every two hours would be a vast improvement! They aren't waking because they need to eat. I started feeding them once over night at two months and they are still gaining 3 pounds a month.

KCKSarah · February 2012

ColleenS629:
Scout2005:
Your pedi thinks they should be sleeping for 10 hours at 3 months?
LMAO.
They sound pretty normal to me, to be honest. I like the Ferber method, we used it to help DD get to sleep around 5.5-6 months, and it worked beautifully. She is a great sleeper.
But she was still "only" giving us 6-8 hour stretches at 3 months, and we were crazy lucky with that.
They are 16 weeks today and will be 4 months in 9 days.
Waking every 20 minutes- 2 hours sounds normal at almost 4 months? I really don't think that sounds normal. Even if it was every 2 hours all night that would still be an improvement but 9 wakings in a 9 hour period is too many IMO.

Lo totally was. That four month wakeful period was brutal.

martinimomma · February 2012

First off, your pediatrician is a crack smoker if he/she expects BF almost 4 month olds to sleep 10 hours at a stretch. No other way to put it. Some do perhaps but it is an unrealistic expectation, IMO.

Second, prior to having a crappy sleeping LO of my own, the mere title "sleep consultant" would have made me roll my eyes and think "scam". But now...all bets are off. So ((hugs)) to you and a ::virtual cup of coffee:: I don't know the answer to your question of whether the in person help is worth it ($1200 for 3 nights seems pricey, but what to compare it to?). A good friend of mine sent me the contact info for Isis a couple weeks ago when I was venting to her about DS' crappy sleep. She used them for her son, and had a "return engagement" when her second child (2u2) had issues when her first son lost his sleep mojo after a move to a new house. She had a very good experience and called it an "investment" in their sleep and her sanity. I have no idea what it cost, but I am hanging on to the info in case we need it later. Good luck and more ((hugs)).

BTW, I've determined that my friends with kids all have "selective memories" about their infancies. Seriously.

ETA: fix a funny autocorrect type-o and add a clarification.

olivia_eve · February 2012

It depends on what is considered normal. It's certainly not abnormal to have a baby up a lot at their age, neither of my kids slept a lot at that age. For example, DS was down at 8:15 last night, woke up at 9, 10:15, 2am, 4am, 5:45am, up for the day at 7am. That was a good night, around 4 months he was definitely worse.

For me I think it's really hard not to compare your kids to others, but you just can't. Every baby is different. Out of all of my friends, my kids have always been the worst sleepers. I don't know if it's genetic or what, they just suck at sleeping. I have had so many nights where I just cry because it's so unfair that other babies sleep and mine don't. The only thing I can say is that you will eventually sleep, and you'll be able to say, "Man, remember when we didn't sleep? That sucked."

Sonadora · February 2012

Your pedi is full of shiznit. I never got more than 1-2 hours of B until after she was 8 months old, and never a full night until after she was 11 months old. From 0-5 months the most I ever got was 1 hour at a time. A good night I was up 7 times with her.

I know it really really sucks to not get any sleep. However, there just really isn't any training you can do at this point. Are they waking each other up? Is there any way to keep them in separate rooms? I'm sure you've tried everything, but white noise, room darkening shades, and a solid routine were key things for us.

As far as not feeding them, or feeding them less, it's possible that is backfiring on you. B was hungry at night. She honestly really needed at least one night feeding through 10 months. At 8 months she still actually needed 2-3 night feedings. She was hungry.

Ernie52408 · February 2012

Ditto everyone else regarding your crack smoking pedi. DS is 10 months old and still doesnt sleep in 6-8 hour stretches. Unfortunately some kids just suck at sleep. The 4 month wakeful in particular is really difficult.

At 3 months I think BF babies probably need more than one feeding a night. I would let them dictate when they need to be fed. I always took a "don't offer, don't refuse" policy on night feedings. I wouldn't automatically offer the boob, but if he asked for it I would let him nurse.

I doubt there is much a sleep consultant can do for you at this point. I'm sure you've tried swaddle, white noise, etc. Most babies won't respond to sleep training until 5-6 months.

:big hugs and big cup of coffee:

ColleenS629 · February 2012

Sonadora:
Your pedi is full of shiznit. I never got more than 1-2 hours of B until after she was 8 months old, and never a full night until after she was 11 months old. From 0-5 months the most I ever got was 1 hour at a time. A good night I was up 7 times with her.

I know it really really sucks to not get any sleep. However, there just really isn't any training you can do at this point. Are they waking each other up? Is there any way to keep them in separate rooms? I'm sure you've tried everything, but white noise, room darkening shades, and a solid routine were key things for us.

As far as not feeding them, or feeding them less, it's possible that is backfiring on you. B was hungry at night. She honestly really needed at least one night feeding through 10 months. At 8 months she still actually needed 2-3 night feedings. She was hungry.

They sometimes wake each other up... it depends on how deep asleep they are. We could separate them temporarily only, not as a permanent solution... we don't have the space for them to each have their own room in this house. We use white noise and have room darkening shades in their room which I had hoped would help (we don't have them in our room) but it hasn't seemed to make a difference.

I guess it's possible that feeding them more through the night could help... I just feel like they don't need to eat more since they are already gaining a lot for EBF babies, 3 pounds a month, with the schedule the way it is now. They also weren't sleeping any better when I did feed them every time they woke up but that was also almost 2 months ago.

pennynjon · February 2012

I can't imagine being up that much with two! You have to be exhausted. Eli still doesn't have a schedule. Some nights after he has been in daycare he will give me a five hour stretch once. Other nights we are back to him being up every two hours. I do think maybe if you fed them more than once they may sleep longer with a full tummy. Eli acts hungry every time he wakes and if I feed him he goes back to sleep. Good luck! I hope they start sleeping better soon.

ColleenS629 · February 2012

RachaelA:
When you go in and try to get them back to sleep, what are you doing? If one is asleep, and you are bouncing, ssshing the other then you could be waking the other up, but they might be in that half awake phase and then never fall back to sleep. I'd try separating them for a few days. Use a RnP, bouncer, swing, etc in the other room if you have to (I know our swing lays pretty much flat).
And honestly, I'm sure some of your friends IRL are exaggerating.

If it's Andrew that woke up, we give him back his pacifier and sometimes he will go to sleep with that... sometimes we have to pick him up and rock him. Ryan doesn't take a paci anymore so we have to pick him up and rock him.

They were sleeping in RnPs when they were in our room so maybe we will try the RnP or PnP and separate them and see how it goes.

ColleenS629 · February 2012

pennynjon:
I can't imagine being up that much with two! You have to be exhausted. Eli still doesn't have a schedule. Some nights after he has been in daycare he will give me a five hour stretch once. Other nights we are back to him being up every two hours. I do think maybe if you fed them more than once they may sleep longer with a full tummy. Eli acts hungry every time he wakes and if I feed him he goes back to sleep. Good luck! I hope they start sleeping better soon.

I can try feeding them more often... I just honestly don't think they need it with their weight gain and even after I feed them the one time that I do, they don't sleep better after the feeding. I'll try anything at this point, though.

VeilSdeGTO · February 2012

ColleenS629:
I have read so many books... Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Twins, Ferber, The No-Cry Sleep Solution, Babywise... and I still cannot get my kids to sleep. We were up 9 times last night, 7 the night before. I can't keep doing this. The exhaustion is wearing on me to the point that I'm getting dizzy while driving, holding the babies, etc. and it's really making me nervous. The pedi is no help. She says they should have been sleeping 6-8 hour stretches a month and a half ago and 10 hour stretches by now. Her only suggestion was to stop feeding them every time they woke up and they would learn to sleep through. I started feeding them once over night at that point. We started that at two months and it's obviously not working. She says just keep trying until 6 months and then Ferber them. No sleep for more than 2 more months is not really an option for me if I can help it. I go to a MoMs support group monthly and the leader started a company that sends an RN to your house to help you with the babies with whatever you need.. sleep, scheduling, etc. but it costs $40/ hour and there is no time frame that they give you for it to work so one night of sleep help from 8pm-6am, for example, would be $400 and it would obviously take at least several nights. I'd do it in a heartbeat at this point if they told me it would work within so many sessions but obviously they can't give that kind of guarantee. Since I am not working and that is very expensive, she recommended a company called Isis located in Boston. They do a sleep consult over the phone. I also found The B.aby Sleep Site that creates sleep plans for you via email. I'm just wondering if anyone has used a service like this before and how helpful it was. I don't want to spend the money if they are just going to tell me things I have already read and can't get to work but I am in desperate need of some sleep.
ETA: Even though the pedi says they should be sleeping 10 hours at a time, I really don't expect that of them... I do expect them to start sleeping better to the point that we're waking up no more than 3 or 4 times a night... even less would be preferable.

I'm lucky if she gets 10 hours a day, TOTAL!!

I'm no help with the sleep issue because she doesn't STTN. Just wanted to offer ((hugs))

karma79 · February 2012

DS has only had flukes where he has slept more than 3-4 hrs. So I'm not liking what your pedi says. I do hope they sleep longer for you soon. Sleep deprivation is a biatch!

karma79 · February 2012

sandyd:
First off, your pediatrician is a crack smoker if he/she expects BF almost 4 month olds to sleep 10 hours at a stretch. No other way to put it. Some do perhaps but it is an unrealistic expectation, IMO.

Second, prior to having a crappy sleeping LO of my own, the mere title "sleep consultant" would have made me roll my eyes and think "scam". But now...all bets are off. So ((hugs)) to you and a ::virtual cup of coffee:: I don't know the answer to your question of whether the in person help is worth it ($1200 for 3 nights seems pricey, but what to compare it to?). A good friend of mine sent me the contact info for Isis a couple weeks ago when I was venting to her about DS' crappy sleep. She used them for her son, and had a "return engagement" when her second child (2u2) had issues when her first son lost his sleep mojo after a move to a new house. She had a very good experience and called it an "investment" in their sleep and her sanity. I have no idea what it cost, but I am hanging on to the info in case we need it later. Good luck and more ((hugs)).

BTW, I've determined that my friends with kids all have "selective memories" about their infancies. Seriously.

ETA: fix a funny autocorrect type-o and add a clarification.

This!

grr_aargh · February 2012

We've actually seen a physician who specialized in sleep issues. I have 3 children, ages 9, 5, and 1. We saw the specialist when our 1st was about 14 months old.

I'll be honest: some children . . . just. . . don't really sleep. YES, it's not average. Yeah, it might even be borderline abnormal. Who knows. All 3 of mine have had reflux, and I am certain that it factored into their sleep patterns.

With #1, she woke every 2 hours from birth to 5 months, every hour from 5 months to a year, 3 times a night from a year to 18 months, STTN for 3 months, then went back to waking at least twice a night until she was 3.

Baby #2, woke every hour from birth to about 6 months. From 6-9 months he woke more often than that. I can't even tell you because keeping count made me weep. He turned a corner at about 9 months then only woke 4-5 times a night. By a year he was STTN.

With baby #3 we anticipated a poor sleeper and we were not disappointed. She woke every 2 hours (for significant stretches of time) until she was about 5 months and then had a downturn - every hour or so until about 9 months. She's 14 months now and on good nights she's down to 3 wakings between 11 and 6 am. On bad nights. . . it's hourly. Still.

We learned a few tricks from the doctor - kids tend to spend about double the time between feedings at night than they spend during the day - so the secret to spreading out the night wakings *can* be feeding larger amounts with longer spaces during the day. The doc also suggested we give a meal at dinnertime and ANOTHER meal right before bed. For us, that is generally yogurt and a fruit or something.

Good luck. I'm sorry. I know it's exhausting. I, too, have dizzy spells because I'm so tired. It is disturbing, I know. This too shall pass, in time, and if it's worth it to you, hire a sleep consultant. As with many consultants - they might not fix your problem, but they MIGHT give you a series of methods that do work to mitigate or reduce it.

I happen to believe that some people are born sleepers and others are not and we can do what we can to encourage children to sleep but we cannot MAKE them sleep. And trust me when I say, we've tried everything - Weissbluth, No Cry SS, Ferber. . . if there's a book on sleep, we've read it and spent months in the course of our parenting trying to implement it. WE've consulted pediatricians and specialists and what have you to no avail. Our children are who they are. We've reduced our expectations from "sleep through the night" to "nighttime independence." The change in that mindset has been incredibly important - BUT - that means that until they are really capable of independence of any sort, we're on watch.

OCIrishBruin · February 2012

I agree with the PPs that your Pedi is high.

It was 7 months until DS STTN. I felt similar to you - had read all the books, thought I had done everything, nothing worked, etc. Here's what I realized - those books have conflicting advice. So, I would apply one method at certain times and another at other times, depending on the circumstances. Wrong answer. Finally, we threw out all of the books except Ferber. It was the final frontier. We followed the instructions in that book only to the T. It did not take 3 days like everyone claimed. It took about 2 months to really get him to STTN consistently. But finally, it worked.

Good luck.

julesjb · February 2012

Reading all the PP you have had lots of good advice and honestly C is back to waking every 2 hrs when we used to get 5-6 hrs in the first part of the night. I keep hoping its a 3 month growth spurt bc like you we were trying not to feed every time but in the last week he definetly is hungry each time.

Mostly I wanted to tell you how amazing I think you are and give you virtual hugs. C is wearing us down the last week or two and my DH and I are tired. I cannot imagine with two and you deserve all the credit in the world. I wish I had the answer for you

vflipo · February 2012

((hugd)) The PPs have said just about everything I was going to. I hope things get better soon, but your pedi has set unrealistic expectations IMO.

MrsAtch · February 2012

DD has never slept more than 4 hours (once) and usually will sleep one 2 hour stretch (if I'm lucky) and is then up about once an hour or more frequently. Being up 7+ times in an 8 hour stretch is pretty normal for us.

FmrAFBrat · February 2012

Your pedi is way....off base. I'm lucky in the fact that L has been sleeping 5-8 hours at time at night, but I've been told that's not really normal. As fas as sleep consultants my brother & SIL use one....but they didn't start that until my niece was a year old.... & that was because she has never slept for more than an hour.I think you are okay for now.

pepomntpat · February 2012

I am sorry you are having a rough time. My big question is where is your DH in all of this? Can you two take shifts? DH and I did that for a while and it did help to get several hours of uninterrupted sleep. He stayed up late-until midnight or so and I'd take any wake ups after he went to bed. I also went to bed super early.

I heard all kinds of garbage about not needing to sleep at night because I SAH, but it is garbage. You need to be rested to take care of your babies, so don't feel guilty about getting DH involved.

HTH

E&RMommy · February 2012

It's brutal having twins that don't sleep. Ours did not sleep for 8+ hours in a row until almost 10 months.

Your DH should be splitting shifts with you and helping if not already. It's just too much for one person to manage.

I would totally call the consultants if you think it will help.

Ours were swaddled and slept in the swing and/or RNP (we had bouncers but same difference) until 6 months. It made a world of difference and actually allowed them to sleep longer stretches.

Hang in there.....

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