XP: WTF Update (long)

farmerlynda · January 2012

Just got home from from my WTF, after dropping off my medical records at UCSF so they'll have time to review them before my second opinion appointment (scheduled for tomorrow morning).

Honestly, I thought the WTF was supposed to make me feel hopeful. I think I came out more depressed than when I went in. My RE put the odds of facing the same egg vacuole issue next time at 60%. (So, a 40% chance of having a normal cycle, which would then be a 60 percent shot at getting pregnant, if that makes sense.)

She wants to switch to Long Lupron for the next cycle, in the hopes that my egg quality will be better on a different protocol. I'm starting BCPs tomorrow so that I can start Lupron in 2 weeks and stims in a month. She said my ovaries need a month to rest and recover but that the month could be spent on BCPs & Lupron prepping for the next cycle.

I asked for a general assessment of our situation and she said she thought it might take us 3-4 IVF cycles to get pregnant. I honestly can't imagine dealing with any more IVF BFNs. Not to mention the time and money. She did say she'd try to get us some free meds from the drug companies (samples I guess?), so that would be awesome.

The RE was very supportive of us getting a second opinion; she used to be on the faculty at UCSF so she knows the doctors there. She guessed that he'd have the same recommendation but noted that she'd be happy to discuss anything that comes up at my consultation tomorrow. Unfortunately DH can't come to the second opinion appointment because he has to chair a board meeting, so I'm on my own.

Anyway, looks like I'm pressing on to IVF #2, for better or for worse... Either with the original RE or the one tomorrow. If all else is equal, I'll stick with my current RE, because there's some small comfort in knowing the staff, the procedure rooms, how they handle ER, etc.

I was so happy with my antagonist protocol (except for the results, of course) and I'm bummed that I have to be on BCPs and Lupron. I've always had miserable side effects from BCPs and I'm not looking forward to the Lupron headaches. (I complained to DH that BCPs make me b!tchy and kill my sex drive, and he said, "Don't worry. I'll love you even if you're b!tchy and sexless.")

Oh well! Here we go, I guess...

happilyeverafterxo · January 2012

Hi sweetie! I'm so sorry to hear that your appointment didn't go as well as you had hoped. I'm so glad, however, that your RE is encouraging your second opinion and willing to work with those recommendations!

IF sucks. I'm so sorry you are even dealing with all of this. I wish you nothing but the best - I hope you know that! I'll always be rooting for you!

CTumelty · January 2012

I've been thinking about you! Hopefully this "break" will be helpful for your ovaries as well as your heart and soul. IF sucks! We all know how hard this road is but we are all here for you! Hopefully your new plan or new RE helps bring home your take home baby.

ukcats27 · January 2012

Hopefully changing the protocol is just what you need. I'm very hopeful for you hun. Good luck at your second opinion appointment tomorrow. Let us know how it goes.

farmerlynda · January 2012

happilyeverafterxo:
Hi sweetie! I'm so sorry to hear that your appointment didn't go as well as you had hoped. I'm so glad, however, that your RE is encouraging your second opinion and willing to work with those recommendations!
IF sucks. I'm so sorry you are even dealing with all of this. I wish you nothing but the best - I hope you know that! I'll always be rooting for you!

Aww thanks I appreciate your support!

hootie123 · January 2012

That is typical for a WTF - its never meant to make you feel better as much as it is a discussion of the next steps. I cried more at my WTF appts that any other appt.

So are their any other changes she recommends other than just switching to long lupron?

FWIW - I did not find long lupron to be that bad - I only got lupron headaches for a day or two.

Good luck with your appt tomorrow! I think its great you were able to meet with them so quickly.

Native+Girl · January 2012

I'm so sorry the WTF didn't leave you feeling more hopeful. It's great your RE is encouraging the 2nd opinion and willing to discuss another doctor's thoughts. I know you were struggling deciding if you should take some time or move on to the next cycle right away so maybe this is the best of both - you do get a break to rest, mourn, and recover during the month of bcps/Lupron but you're also actively working toward the next cycle. I hope that you get more answers at your 2nd opinion tomorrow and that your next cycle is a wonderful success.

katieworek · January 2012

Oh Lynda, I'm so sorry you keep getting bad news. It's just not fair that so much work goes into something for it to fall apart. Sad

That being said, I think you're doing a fantastic job of dealing with and trying to move on and focus on the future. Hopefully, the doctor (whichever one you choose) will be able to turn things around for you next cycle. ((hugs))

farmerlynda · January 2012

hootie123:
That is typical for a WTF - its never meant to make you feel better as much as it is a discussion of the next steps.   I cried more at my WTF appts that any other appt.

So are their any other changes she recommends other than just switching to long lupron?

FWIW - I did not find long lupron to be that bad - I only got lupron headaches for a day or two.

Good luck with your appt tomorrow!  I think its great you were able to meet with them so quickly.

I'm glad to know it's not just me that felt like crying the whole time. I was really hoping to get a "oh, we'll tweak this, and your odds will be much better next time." So much for that!

She didn't recommend anything other than a different protocol -- no supplements, DHEA, or anything. She noted that anecdotally speaking, some women can conceive just fine on a natural cycle but somehow their egg quality is affected by meds. (She has seen this in women with several children of one gender who come in for gender selection PGD -- gag -- and then get crummy embryos time and time again.) So, basically her plan is to hope I'm not that girl, and that a different protocol will yield different results.

Also glad to know long lupron was okay for you! Hopefully it won't be too bad for me either.

maggie2324 · January 2012

I'm a number nerd. 60% same issue, 24% normal and pregnant, 16% normal and not pregnant. Those odds would not make me feel better either. I'm sorry :-(

Have you looked into mini ivf or anything like that? I know many women with egg issues are more successful with that. It'd be a heck of a lot cheaper too.

MsGMChick · January 2012

Oh babe. I'm so sorry it didn't make you feel any better and I would be heartbroken as well if she said 3-4 IVFs. What the hell?! I want to give you big hugs. Good luck tomorrow at your second opinion and I really hope they're able to find something else to do to improve your chances.

genmalone · January 2012

I hope you get confirmation tomorrow that you have been receiving the proper treatment so you can move forward with no regrets. I've really been thinking about you and trying to send postive thoughts your way. Good luck tomorrow!

Also, I'm 2 weeks into BCP and I'm just trying to focus on...2 more weeks...2 more weeks...2 more weeks. Hopefully it will fly by for you!

limpetfan · January 2012

I think you're doing all the right things, Lynda. All you can do is try again, and it's logical to try the other, "gold standard" protocol (that's what I always hear long Lupron referred to as) and see if you get better results. FWIW, that's the exact same thing my RE did when IVF #1 didn't work and she suspected egg quality was the culprit. So, if you have questions about the differences between the protocols, feel free to ask

I'm sorry you have to go through all of this again, but I bet this next month will go by super-fast for you. Good luck with your second opinion - can't wait to hear what they might have to say!

MandaS08 · January 2012

I'm sorry that your appt didn't go better and I'm so sorry that you're dealing with all this in the first place. It just sucks-there is no other way around it.

I hope that your second opinion appt either gives you a great new treatment plan or solidifies that your current RE has a good plan in place.

I'm thinking about you and praying for the best!

limpetfan · January 2012

farmerlynda:
She didn't recommend anything other than a different protocol -- no supplements, DHEA, or anything. She noted that anecdotally speaking, some women can conceive just fine on a natural cycle but somehow their egg quality is affected by meds. (She has seen this in women with several children of one gender who come in for gender selection PGD -- gag -- and then get crummy embryos time and time again.) So, basically her plan is to hope I'm not that girl, and that a different protocol will yield different results.

That doesn't really surprise me. I think a lot of doctors use the first IVF as a learning experience, and won't commit to putting you on a supplement unless the same thing happens again. Since it might not be your intrinsic egg quality, they may not want you to take, for example, DHEA (which could potentially make things worse depending on what's going on) right now. If the same thing were to happen again, and they feel it is intrinsic egg quality, THAT'S when you might start hearing the doctors talk about supplements, etc. Of course, it's always good to ask now and see if they feel it could help, or at least not hurt. I hope that makes sense/helps!

SMF&ADS091507 · January 2012

So sorry that this was not your cycle. I am glad to hear that you are getting a second opinion. I wish you nothing but the best for your next IVF!! (((hugs)))

farmerlynda · January 2012

limpetfan:
That doesn't really surprise me. I think a lot of doctors use the first IVF as a learning experience, and won't commit to putting you on a supplement unless the same thing happens again. Since it might not be your intrinsic egg quality, they may not want you to take, for example, DHEA (which could potentially make things worse depending on what's going on) right now. If the same thing were to happen again, and they feel it is intrinsic egg quality, THAT'S when you might start hearing the doctors talk about supplements, etc. Of course, it's always good to ask now and see if they feel it could help, or at least not hurt. I hope that makes sense/helps!

That totally makes sense -- basically you don't want to add more variables before you have confirmed your hypothesis (or confirmed it as best you can). It just sucks that we have to be the experiment in the meanwhile, and I know you know that even better than I do!

MBJune · January 2012

I'm sorry that your appointment didn't go as you were hoping. I hope you get more answer at your second opinion and your next cycle is a success!

tst1998 · January 2012

I found my WTF very unsatisfying as well. "Everything looked great, we don't know what happened." X 2 is not helpful. Although my RE did tell me to go back to acupuncture after this last FET. I'm glad you have a new plan for IVF#2 and are getting to move on right away. Hopefully the change in protocol will make a difference for you. FWIW... I had no problems with Lupron at all. The long prep is annoying (damn BCPs), but I never got the Lupron headaches. Good luck sweetie, I'm so glad you were able to get all your follow up appointments so soon so you can move ahead.

nycitygirl1 · January 2012

I'm so so sorry Lynda. I was hoping you got better news at your WTF and am glad you're getting a second opinion. It just seems like your current practice doesn't have any concrete answers or guarantees that this won't happen again, which is frustrating when you invest so much money, physical toll and emotion into the process. That is just so heartbreaking and completely unfair.

Fingers crossed that UCSF has some great advice for you tomorrow and makes you feel more positive about your chances. I'm sorry to hear you also have to take a break; I'm on one now and it sucks not to be able to do anything to move this process forward. On the other hand, it has been nice not to have to focus on IF as much.

Big (((hugs))) to you girl. Let us know how your appointment goes tomorrow. In the meantime, do something nice for yourself tonight - chocolate, wine, a bubble bath, etc. You deserve it.

Seagull2012 · January 2012

I'm sorry you don't feel more hopeful after your appt but it sounds like at least you have a plan and are moving forward. Your RE seemed really upfront with you about everything and that seems good. I'm keeping my fingers crossed this next one is your cycle. It only takes one! Hang in there and GL.

sbrowns08 · January 2012

I'm sorry that your wtf wasn't more reassuring Lynda, but it sounds like you have a good plan. I think the second opinion will be helpful, even if you just get a few tidbits of info to bring back to your current RE.

As for Long Lupron, I've always read that the best way to combat egg quality issues is to change meds/protocols. I honestly only had one headache while on Lupron, and I didn't even feel the "loopyness" of it that I know others have had.

Interestingly enough, I feel exactly the opposite about my cycle than you did. Of course we don't know the outcome yet, but I was so worried when my response was slow and didn't match my AFC. When we only got 8 mature eggs and ended up with 6 embryos I was on the edge of my seat praying we would have something to transfer. Maybe a slower start with a little suppression will do the trick for you!

That's awesome that she's going to try to get meds for you. Do you know what you'll be stimming with?

Thinking of you hun!

pulga131 · January 2012

Oh honey I'm so sorry you didn't hear better things today. How depressing to hear those odds and to hear 3-4 more IVFs! I think it's great that your RE is so supportive of a 2nd opinion. That speaks very highly to her character (IMO). Please know that I'm always thinking of you and praying that you two finally catch a break. You're going to be amazing parents one day- hopefully sooner than later.

!

machole513 · January 2012

I'm so sorry that the appt didn'thelp a much as you thought it will. I hope the 2nd opinion helps and IVF#2 will be it for you!

mizzougal08 · January 2012

GL tomorrow at your appointment and hoping that IVF #2 is the ticket for you! Proud of you for being so brave and pressing onward! T&Ps girl!

Trish11278 · January 2012

I am so sorry you walked out of your WTF more depressed. I hope the change in the protocol is what you need. Hopefully your second opinion goes well tomorrow!

kellygksu · January 2012

I'm sorry that you didn't get better news at today's appointment. I hope that the break flies by for you, Lynda. You are such a strong person! I will keep you and your DH in my thoughts and prayers!

OnTheLanai · January 2012

I'm sorry your appointment go as well as you had hoped. That is alot to take in! I hope your second opinion gives you peace on which direction to go.

Praying for you during this upcoming cycle! I also get bitchy and sexless during BC lol, it sucks!

katib77 · January 2012

I'm sorry you didn't get as hopefull news as you were hoping for. I hope you get some answers from tomorrow's appointment, even if it's deciding to stick with your current RE.

pinkmickey24 · January 2012

Lynda, I am so sorry you left feeling more depressed and without the sense of renewed hope. Hopefully, your RE's plans to switch to a Long Lupron Protocol will be what your body needs in order to prodcue better quality eggs. It had to be reassuring that she was onboard with a second opinion and that she is willing to discuss anything new you find out about what their protocol might be for you, before moving forward any farther. Good luck tomorrow and with your next IVF cycle! It sounds like you have a great DH who loves you no matter what and is there to support you.

violetmarie61516 · January 2012

I'm so sorry that your appt wasn't what you were hoping for. That has to be so hard to deal with not having good answers/explanations AND to hear the chances for the future. I know that the chances are very difficult to swallow but you do still have a good chance! Don't let all the negatives pile up. Give yourself some time to relax like your ovaries during the next month or so. Hopefully a change in the protocol is just what you need. Good luck with your appt tomorrow too. Two Dr.'s who may actually be will to consult together could be a good thing for you!

erockmomma · January 2012

I'm sorry to hear your RE didn't have anything more encouraging for you. I'm glad to hear she's going to switch up your protocol to see if you can get better results next time. At least it sounds like she's listening to your concerns. Good luck at your appt tomorrow!

stellelinds25 · February 2012

I'm sorry your appt didn't go as well as you hoped it would. Sending hugs and hoping your 2nd opinion appt goes well today!

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