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D.C. Area Babies
mcatmay
member
Yes, again - more BF advice needed.
mcatmay
member
I feel like we're on a continuous rollercoaster with BF. Going back to work has really impacted my supply. I used to be able to get 20 ounces out of four pumping sessions and i'm now lucky if i get 15 ounces. We're using slow flow nipples but she finishes everything i send to daycare (usually send about 19 ounces). Here are the things that i'm doing to try to help boost milk production:
1. Fenugreek - i've been taking it since i've gone back to work - i think it REALLY helped initially but feel like the effects are fading.
2. Increasing pumping - i had been pumping every three hours. Since yesterday, i've TRIED to pump every two hours, even if it's for a shorter period of time (it doesn't always happen). I'm not sure how long it'll take to boost milk production. I'm also now adding a pumping session at night.
3. Drink water - I drink at least 48 ounces of water in 11 hours. Not sure if it's not enough or whether it's plenty.
Are there any other moms with real world advice on all of this? I've read Kelly mom's website - brewer's yeast is next on my list of 'things to add' and, if you all tell me that the mother's tea is worth it, i'll try to choke it down but i'm not a tea drinker at all.
Last but not least, one emotional question (isn't there always one with me ;-) I've continued to nurse DD because i get a lot out of that bond and selfishly want it to continue. But i'm not sure that she gets that much out of it - she gets distracted while nursing, she gets more bottles than she nurses because of my work schedule and so, even when she BF, she initially tries to gulp milk like with a bottle but doesn't do the 'small suckles' to stimulate milk letdown. She just latches on and waits for the milk to letdown (which is a LOT harder than when she helps out!!!). I really struggle with whether i should just give up on breastfeeding and exclusively pump - i always feel like i never have enough milk for her (even though i seem to pump enough! for now, at least), that she's never satisfied and that she gets irritated with waiting for the milk to come. So, do i quit trying to nurse and just go for bottles alone? I feel like, in the past month, she's only nursed for comfort once.
I don't want to quit BF, for what it's worth. It really upsets me thinking about it. But i don't want to force something on my kid that she doesn't want.
You all deserve a cookie if you made it so far - hell, you deserve a flippin' banquet for answering my million and one questions ;-) TIA!
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Yes, again - more BF advice needed.
1st thing I noticed was the water intake. I was drinking upwards of 80-90 oz a day when I was at home w/ DS. I know I wasn't drinking that much while I was at work (I did do the 64oz) and I noticed my supply dropped about 2-3 oz. Additionally... oatmeal and flax seed... I ate it every single day when I was at home with DS. I couldn't stomach the mothers milk tea. Its ok if you like licorice. Additonally there are such things as lacation cookies. I've heard great things about these as well that involve oatmeal and brewer's yeast. The other things that come to mind are warm showers and then pumping and/or breast massages while pumping. I've heard some women talk about power pumping but I really don't know how that all works.
At about 7-8 months, DS really self weened himself. He just wasn't interested at all. I continued to pump up until 1 week before his 1st birthday. In reality it was harder for me to let go than him and that was upsetting but he was still getting all of the benefits. It all worked out and there's no permanent damage to either one of us.
Oatmeal. And are you eating enough generally? Somehow it felt like I needed more than 200 extra calories per day (or whatever they say you need to BF).
Breast compressions while you pump, and pump for a few minutes after you stop getting milk (to convince your body that it needs to produce more).
By 5 or 6 months, DD was drinking 20-22 oz. of BM per day at daycare, and I really struggled to keep up with her needs. Once she was sleeping a good stretch until midnight or 1 am, I added in a pumping session before I went to bed (probably around 9). Have you tried that?
I don't think getting distracted at the breast means you should move to EPing if you don't want to. I think she's too young to really know what she wants - IMO it's probably too early for her to have decided that she doesn't like nursing and doesn't want you to do it anymore.
I had to stop bfing before I was ready due to very low supply, so I'm not the best help, but was able to make it 3 months past when I thought I would originally have to stop thanks to TONS of water (seriously, like 90 oz. a day) and the supplement More Milk Plus (I *think* you can get it at Whole Foods, I know it is on Amazon) and lactation cookies (they have oatmeal, flax seed, and brewers yeast). You can just google the recipe - they are really yummy! I upped the quantities of yeast and oatmeal and they were still really good.
You've already gotten a lot of great advice. Something I would add is that in terms of pumping sessions, I think that extra session at night before go to bed is super helpful, perhaps even more helpful than adding sessions during the day, especially if those added sessions during the day are making your day more stressful...that extra stress can't help your supply. I hated having to pump before bed, but at least you can be in your pjs and you can take a nice warm shower before if you want to help you relax. I also think the advice about letting the pump go on after it seems that you have gotten all the milk will help. Finally, I never tried the cookies, but I have heard a lot of women on this board swear by them.
As for BFing in general, I have to ditto the pps. Your LO will go through phases of being more or less focused during her nursing sessions. As she grows and becomes more aware of the world around her, it can be harder for her to be focused on nursing, but I don't think that means you have to stop. I agree that BFing exclusively on the weekends (or as much as you can) will probably be helpful.
GL!!!
I agree with QueSyrah that your DD is not deciding she doesn't want to BF anymore. 19 oz does some seem like a lot to me. DS never had that much at that age. He mostly topped with 16-17 oz the entire time I sent bottles to DC. But every baby is different.
Besides what you listed, definitely nurse, nurse, and nurse some more. That really is the best way to increase your supply. Offer as much as she wants. Have a nurse-in this weekend and spend all day with DD with your boobs out. Sounds odd, but whenever DS sees them he wants to nurse. Maybe this only works if they're older. Does your pedi have LC services? Or do you have a LC that you trust? I would take advantage of those services.
If you want to keep doing it, then go for it. Don't feel like you are being selfish by continuing to BF. She is distracted. This is common. But she is too young to decide she doesn't want to BF. As long as she is happy and healthy, then you are doing a great job.
Good luck.
Off to the beach
DS 7/18/2010
Handy 2.0 Due Early August
2011/2012 Races
12/17/2011 Christmas Caper 10K
2/11/2012 Have a Heart 5K
3/17/2012 DC RNR Half Marathon
4/22/2012 10M Parkway Classic
10/28/2012 Marine Corps Marathon
My pedi said it's completely natural for a baby to become disinterested in nursing as they get older. There are exciting things to do and see and your boob is not the most important thing in their life anymore. DD was, and is, a fast nurser, so she was on and off the boob really quickly after the first couple months once she really got the hang of it. She was getting plenty of milk but wanted to get it over with and move on to something else. I remember at 5 months my supply started dropping a bit but I was able to get about 15 oz. a day up until about 7-8 months when it really started tanking. But she was also really into solids by that point so she wasn't eating as much milk. My pedi said that was normal. She's now getting all formula bottles during the day (I EBF and pumped for her first 8 months, then gradually weaned off the pump by 9 months) and I nurse morning and night. She seems happy with this arrangement and so am I. You can still pump during the day and nurse, maybe once a day, so you're still getting that closeness?
Additionally, I feel like DD concentrates more on nursing when it's only a couple times a day since she knows that's one of the few times a day we have that time together. It's been really nice.
Good luck!
You've received some really good advice. Here are a few things that worked for me:
- Oatmeal. Has to be steel cut, not instant.
- Brewer's yeast. Tastes kind of gross, but has lots of good nutrients. I still take it now.
- Fenugreek and Blessed Thistle combo
- Power pumping for a few days. And sometimes, when DDs were already STTN, I would get up at 3 am and do a quick pump. I got tons of milk then and it would boost my supply. I had everything set up by my bed and I could get hooked up in the dark and pump. Took about 10-15 minutes. I would do it for a couple days until I noticed an increase in my daytime supply.
- Lots of water and food
- Lots of rest. The more stressed I am, the worse my supply
- Nurse-ins on the weekends
- Breast massage while pumping (seriously made a difference. I did this at every pump, always.
- If I was really stressed and letdowns took longer I used Rescue Remedy 5-10 minutes before bfing and I also took Fennel Seed (check kellymom for dosing).
I agree, your DD is drinking a lot at DCP. How long is she there? 19-30 oz/day is the normal range for BF babies. DD2 topped out at 15 oz, but she was a really big infant (90%+) over 9-10 hours.
As for continuing to bf..it really isn't selfish. Almost all babies go through periods of distraction. Four months is usually when babies start becoming truly aware of the world. You just need to be patient. If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't switch to bottles only. Per the "best" advice post below I wish someone would have told me with my first that if you are bfing and your baby is happy, healthy and gaining weight then stop overthinking it. I know, easier said than done. And I was in your shoes with my first - overthinking everything! Hang in there!
I'll try not to repeat what's already said, you have some great advice from PP. The thing about BF is that you can take it one day at a time. I stressed a lot with DD and it impacted my supply, even wen I was fighting to boost it. With DS, I decided it is what it is, and my supply was far better because I didn't spend every pumping session freaking out over how much milk I was getting. If I hadn't seen the difference stress caused in person, I never would've believed it.
19 ounces is a lot - for 9 hours of daycare, both DS and DD got about 12 ounces. I do think they over feed at daycare (heck, I cluster fed when my LOS were cranky, I get it).
I only skimmed the responses, but when I needed to pump more, I usually just added a pumping session in in the morning. My supply was highest then. I would nurse on one side and pump the other with the first feeding of the day (this may help with your DDs lazy letdown too).
are you nursing in a dark and quiet place? if not, you should be
is she actually drinking that much during the day or does the DCP throw away the leftovers? i.e.: if you put 4oz in a bottle, and she drinks 3oz, does the DCP throw out the other 1?
don't give up on BFing if you want to continue, if you want to, you can!
I'm in between a ton of meetings so didn't read all the responses but have you tried different bottles? If part of the issue is she latches but doesn't really suck properly that could help. I think I've mentioned it before and I promise I don't work for First Years, but the Breastflow bottles helped us so much I just had to plug them again. Even with the slowest flow nipple on anything else DS just refused to nurse or would sorta try but not really get it. these bottles made all the difference for us.
don't feel too bad about your supply - it really can fluctuate. when I'm sick or stressed mine drops so much...after recovering from a stomach bug i pumped 4 times in one day for a total of 3.5 oz....so frustrating, but i knew that if i kept up the pumping it would slowly increase and now i'm up to about 5 or 6 oz in 2 sessions. still not what i'd like, but better!
i also found that i have to pump on the weekends to maintain my supply. DS just doesn't work hard enough and gives up after he's semi-satisfied, so my supply actually dips when i exclusively nurse. he's content on weekends, but then i don't have enough for DCP on tuesday (since monday i produce less than normal).
for me, extra pumping (as much as i hate it), extra sleep and eating more really make a big difference. even just eating some lactation cookies on my drive to the office helps!
Can you nurse her again some time between 6 am and 9 am?
In addition to drinking more water, try to drink a lot within 30 minutes of pumping (beforehand, I mean). I found that helped.
Adding a pumping session in the morning helped me more than pumping later in the day. Your body is geared to make more milk in the morning. If you can do a pumping session before leaving for work, that may help.
i don't have much new to add, what's here is all great advice.
sometimes babies go through stages where they are disinterested in nursing b/c they are so fascinated with the rest of the world around them. and even when they can't see to explore their world (as in the case with nursing in a quiet, darkened room), their little minds are still exploring within.
there are several times i can remember with both my children like this. and, this is purely anecdotal, but the moms i know with girls had more active nursers than the moms i know with boys. the boy babies tended to be more interested than the girls. that has been the case at my house as well. A is WAAAAAAY more active during nursing than T ever was, but we are still nursing at 16 months.
as you may have done when she was an infant, pull her toward your breast and brush your nipple against her bottom lip. this will cause her to open her mouth. do this several times, almost as though you are teasing her. this may stimulate her interest. you can also try massaging in downward movements on your breast to stimulate a letdown with her latched on.
G/L! and know there is always support here!