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mcatmay
member
Bottle/breastfeeding questions
mcatmay
member
Sorry i've been so MIA, going back to work has been kicking my butt. DD went on a nursing strike the day before i went back because we had increased the amount of bottles she was getting - she just wouldn't wait for my milk to letdown, which stressed me out, which led to a slower let-down... and round and round we go. We 'sort of' have fixed this now that i'm home for three days but i'm worried that this is going to happen again as i go back to work this coming week.The other problem is that daycare was telling me that the 20oz of milk i give them for a nine hour day is not enough. So here are my questions:
1. Can a too fast nipple cause a baby to drink more than he/she needs? We just switched over the weekend to slow flow nipples and she drinks MUCH LESS than 20oz of milk in nine hours. I don't know if she's actually done eating or just done with trying to work hard for food.
2. Do babies just go through a period of fussiness at the letdown? We're doing better but still not great (i pumped to induce letdown and then fed her, then slowly started making her work for it more). Is this going to get better or should i expect her to fuss at BF until we're done?
3. How do you all emotionally deal with a fussy baby at the breast? I'm wondering if i now am BF selfishly - maybe i should just EP - i thought she was getting something out of the bond between us (i certainly was/am) but now, i wonder. Emotionally, for me, it's been so HARD to have her refuse the breast that i almost quit BF.
Thanks, as always, for the advice - it's been a hard week - DD is exhausted from the continous daycare and refused to smile at me when i DID see her - that plus the nursing strike destroyed me. Now that i've had a chance to be with her for 24 hours, she's again happy and smiling, which is a balm to me.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Bottle/breastfeeding questions
The faster flow nipples can definitely make a difference. 20oz in 9 hours for a baby your age is a LOT! I would try a slower-flow nipple. She should have to work for it, just like she does with nursing. Otherwise she might start to prefer the bottles (which is what you're seeing now).
I never really had a nursing strike, but I'm sure you can work through it with some patience.
And you're not BFing selfishly! EPing is great if you can't BF, but BFing has other benefits (to mom and baby) besides BM.
TTC #2: BFP 12/17/11, m/c 1/7/12 and D&C 1/12/12
baby blog/cooking blog
I agree with tomandcourt. DD went on a mini-nursing strike right after I went back to work and it was very upsetting for me, so I understand completely. But, it sorted itself out within a day or two. There are a lot of changes for you both and, just like you're adjusting to your new life as a working mom, she's adjusting. So, keep that in mind. Don't give up on BFing unless you think it's completely not going to work and she's visibly suffering. Just be patient, give her the bottle when you need to but keep offering the breast as much as possible. Make sure you're feeding her when she isn't STARVING! I had to have a couple conversations with my DCP about bottle timing so she was hungry but not starving when I picked her up and things went more smoothly from there on out. It actually turned out she was feeding her shortly before pick-up so she wasn't that hungry and didn't want to work for it but I wanted to nurse when we got home in order to reconnect. Figure out what works best for you.
Definitely go with the slower nipple and don't stress! I know it's hard but it really will affect the process.
LO can be fussy at the breast a lot. I put him on and after he pulls off a few times, I cover everything up and hold him for a minute or two before trying again. I think my issue is the opposite of yours though - forceful letdown. He has gradually adjusted and is fine about 1/2 the time now. When he refuses though, I try to not think of it as him refusing me but that he is just a baby and he is learning and we need to try again.
Sometimes he just gets distracted and would prefer to make smiley faces at me rather than nurse. I do the same thing. Wait a few minutes and then try again. After about 10 minutes of this, if he is still pulling away I stop trying to nurse and wait until the next feeding time.
I feel like I'm constantly chiming in on this....but I feel for you - when I first experienced all that I felt like no one I knew ever had a young baby prefer a bottle even with the slow flow nipple (which I had), and stick it out to EBF so I felt I had really limited resources. to your questions:
1. I think a lot of DCPs can tend to over-feed a bit, not necessarily in a bad way, but often times they will feed them to help settle them down even though the LO may not be hungry. I do think fast flow nipples may make her drink more - it's easy, so why not keep drinking? I think if you have been home with LO for the past 3 days and she doesn't seem hungry after you BF then what you're pumping/sending should be fine. If you want to send a little extra you can try pumping at night (if she doesnt' still nurse at night, I can't remember), or you can try adding a pumping session at work (so 3x/day at work if you aren't already). You could also send some formula to DCP and ask that they only use it after all BM is used. I can't remember how old LO is now, but you could also think about cereal (not in a bottle, but spoon fed)
2/3. In my limited experience, yes. DS still does it
When we first introduced bottles he was fine to go back and forth, then at about 3 months he got extremely fussy at the breast and it was so devastating and frustrating. You're working so hard to do the right thing by them, but they just wont cooperate to make it happen. I switched bottles to the Breastflow and it helped a little, but not entirely. At the worst point DS wouldn't even latch on, he'd just cry, scream, and thrash around. I was definitely in tears and wanted to just hand him over to DS and be alone with my pump. I felt bad that he didn't want to BF, and worse that I was frustrated at him for it and honestly preffered to pump than BF because the rejection was that hard. It was really overwhelming.
I just stuck it out and tried to focus on getting him to BF once a day - even if that was only in the middle of the night. I would BF in the morning and middle of the night but pumped and bottle fed the other times (DS was most patient in the morning when I had a lot of milk or in the middle of the night when he was sleepy). He came back around to the breast around 4/5 months - I finally felt like I saw how people said they prefered to BF than bottle feed, it got that much better. I probably kept up with night feeding, and did the dream feed around 10/11pm, longer than needed (dropped that last one around 8/9 months) but they were always his best so I felt like it was good for both of us.
I won't lie, it's still frustrating when he fusses at the breast, but I have realized that it's not about him rejecting me - just that he wants milk, now! He's also able to cuddle and show me that he really does love me and pretty much prefers me to anyone else, lol. so that definitely made up for the fussiness starting around 8 months or so (when he started getting much more distracted and less interested again).
Sorry this is so long, and maybe not exactly what you'd like to hear, but I hope it helps to know you're not the only one that's experienced all this. BF has definitely had it's ups and downs for us and as we're coming up on 1 year I'm looking forward to being liberated from the pump, stress about supply and demand, and fussing at the breast, but at the same time I'm a little sad to see it go. I'll probably keep up the morning and nighttime BF for a little longer
ETA: it was at about 3-4 months old where the bottle/breast battle was hardest, and we did nurse in a quiet spot as pps suggested. it probably wasn't until we were well into 5 months that he really came around.
Aw, hang in there.
1. Fast nipples can absolutely make a baby drink more (and prefer the bottle). I used the slowest nipples possible - even when my kids were 1, I used the newborn nipples. 20 oz is A LOT. kellymom has a milk calculator, but I think the general rule is 1 oz/hr. So for 9 hours, your LO should drink 9 oz. My kids were always a bit higher - more like 12 -13, but 20 is way too much.
2. Some babies are fussy at letdown due to overactive let down (I had this, especially with DD1). I think your strategy is good for day feedings, but at night or first thing in the morning, when she may be more patient, I would still try to get her to stimulate the let down. I went through a period of extreme stress before I went back to work and had a similar issue. I started using Rescue Remedy to calm me down before bfing and I just talked and breathed my way through it (to keep myself calm).
3. Bfing is not selfish. You're going through a tough period now, but my advice is to never, ever quit on a bad day. You may ultimately have to EP, but since it was going well before, I would hazard it guess that you will get it back. Both my girls pulled strikes around 9 months (distracted, etc.) and I was just patient and kept offering and they came back. DD1 bfed till 17 months and DD2 is still bfing (15 months) with no end in sight.
If you are patient with yourself and your little one, it will get better. Give yourself a break! You are both going through a lot of transition right now.
I totally agree with this. Our DCP always gave J way more milk than he would have had at home, because it was an easy tool for them to calm him if he was fussy. I'm not criticizing them, but it's something to keep in mind. That plus the nipples might be part of the issue.
TTC #2: BFP 12/17/11, m/c 1/7/12 and D&C 1/12/12
baby blog/cooking blog
1. Can a too fast nipple cause a baby to drink more than he/she needs? Ditto others, yes. Everything I read said that BF babies can stay on slow flow/newborn nipples as long as they use bottles.
Also, I was told BF babies tend to drink less than FF babies, and so DC often compares the two, and think BF babies need more. My DC used to often suggest more milk was needed until I told her this. LO is growing, pedis are happy, and so no issues for us. She's almost 7 months, and around 12oz during her 8 hours at DC.
3. How do you all emotionally deal with a fussy baby at the breast? Not sure if this will help, but Guinevere is more focused when we're in her rocker in her room, and its quiet with less distractions. Especially as she gets more into the world surrounding her, I often have to just remove her to focus. Maybe a nursing cover?
your DD is the right age to start getting distracted during nursing, so you may need to go to a quiet, dark place; no more watching TV or talking on the phone while BFing.
Yes, use the newborn (slowest) nipple. 20oz is way too much for her!
Good luck, you are a great Mom, don't forget that!!
Umbdbride, you described how i felt to a "T". I was in tears every single time i held DD and thought about EP only because I wanted DD to associate me with something positive (the bottle) rather than hard work (BF). Especially since i only get to see her about an hour a day when i'm working, i just didn't want that hour to be spent fighting with her.
Thank you all for the advice - I've switched all my bottles to slow-flow nipples and tomorrow will be the first day that she goes to daycare with those bottles. She's BF a LOT today - i don't know if it was for comfort or due to hunger, but i supported it because I want to reinforce our BF relationship.
I had already moved to the nursery in a glider to nurse because, starting at 3.5 months, she would no longer focus. ONE person talking and her head whips around and she pays attention to that instead. That's why i wasn't quite sure where to go from here.
2vthokies, i'll look into rescueremedy, thanks! And you're right, i KNOW better and you shouldn't quit on a bad day but wow, the emotional rollercoaster of going back to work and having the little girl fuss at me has been quite the ride. At least, after today, i now know that, even if she doesn't have smiles for me during the week, they'll come back when she's better rested.
Both of my kids were WAY TOO distracted to BF w/o being in a quiet room starting around 4 months. DD would only nurse laying down or she just wouldn't focus at that age. DS still cannot nurse unless we are someplace w/little to no distraction, he would just rather play than eat any time of day.
We also never moved up from the newborn nipples for daycare for either of their bottles for daycare. My DCP asked for more milk early on w/DD and I printed out the kellymom info about a BF baby's needs and how often she usually nursed at home to show her that it is truly different then the FF babies she is used to. We never sent more than 12oz for a 7-8 hour day.
It is SO frustration and discouraging to have your baby fuss or push you away but BF'ing is so worth it. Good Luck!
TTC #1 Cycle 14 - IUI#1=BFN, IUI#2=BFP | TTC #2 Cycle 8=BFP!!
This is a great idea. I also think that DCPs may not be as knowledgeable about BF and breastmilk as we are - in terms of things like how much, how often, how to heat/handle it, and that the way they feed the babies with a bottle can really impact BF. Just about a month ago DS was going through a really rough patch with BF again and I found out it was because DCP was taking out the inner nipple of the bottle and just using the outer so the flow was faster - she said DS was frustrated by the slow flow...uh, yea, but I don't have interchangable nipples so we'll be sticking to slow flow all around
DCP loves DS and really cares about his nutrition, I honestly think she just had no idea that changing up the nipple would impact BF like it does for us.