Preschool/daycare behavior problems- WDYD? (LONG)

brideonjuly8 · January 2012

This is Steven's second year at this school, and we both love it. Last year he had no behavior issues, seemed to get along just fine with all his friends and the teachers seemed to genuinely love him. I will be the first one to admit he has a TON of energy and is definitely more "spirited" than most of his classmates.

This year started out much the same, and Steven really attached himself early on to another little boy in his class (we'll call him Sam). Sam and Steven were best friends and they started disrupting class and not listening because they were being too roudy and rough with each other (all happy, playing, just being boys pretty much) so they moved Sam to the older class, even though Steven is older and bigger than Sam, but they told me Steven was kind of a "follower" as far as Sam goes and just did everything he would (not listening, running away, etc). Steven was super sad he didn't get to play with Sam anymore, but once Sam was gone he wasn't doing any of those things. Basically, they just couldn't get them to listen if they were together. Kind of like a little bro-mance going on.

Few weeks later his teachers said there was a new little boy coming into the class, let's call him Evan, and that he had some mental and physical limitations, and he had health issues. First day he came in I could immediately see he had pink eye. Why was he at school and why was a mother, who has never had pink eye and who's kid has never had pink eye, having to tell the teachers it looks like that new kid has pink eye? And just looking at him you could tell he wasn't up to par as far as milestones and development- he's much smaller, can't handle not having a pacifier, he doesn't really talk (the only thing I've heard him say is "Mommy!" when I pick Steven up (and several times recently I've sat in the classroom and observed). And he's one of those kids that always has a green crusty, snotty nose. Ick!

Anyway, it's pretty clear to me that Evan is just not in the right class, development-wise. He's been diagnosed with ADHD, something else I can't recall, and very possibly Autism (as far as I've been told, but I didn't ask). He's just not there yet.

Anyway, Steven and Evan don't really get along very well. Evan really has no concept of sharing. He follows Steven around like a lost puppy, and grabs almost everything as soon as Steven touches it. The week before break it made Steven so mad he bit him. And he bit him again today. When they are in group settings outside the classroom, Evan stays away and Steven's behaviors is fine. It's when they're all in the classroom with the toys that they're not getting along.

So, what do I do about this kid who's making it really hard for mine to be good? Steven definitely shouldn't have bit him, but he can really only say "No Evan" or "That's mine" or "Don't take that away from me!" or tell the teacher so many times a day before it just wears on him, kwim? And I had a good talk with the director and his teachers today and Evan is the only one Steven gets in trouble with. He's just fine with all the other kids (sometimes a little rough playing, but it's never out of anger, ex- pushing, biting, hitting).

I feel like they tiptoe around issues with Evan because he's physically and mentally behind. If he had no issues and it was clear Evan and Steven just didn't like each other, then that would be an entirely different issue. But my kid gets several timeouts a day at school and it's all trying to deal with Evan. They were so quick to move Sam out of his class, I don't see why they haven't even entertained the idea of moving Evan down a class into the younger 2yo class. Or even the 18-2yo wouldn't be a stretch, that's how behind he is. They had to move a baby gate into their class because he wouldn't stop opening the door and bolting. And don't even get me started on how sick Steven has been this school year so far.

I hate bringing Evan up to the directors, especially since we know he does have issues, but I hate that my kid is suffering because of it. And I'm NOT excusing Steven's behavior AT ALL- biting is not allowed and not tolerated in our house, and frankly, he doesn't do it to anyone else so I'm not sure how to handle it. He's only bit one other time ever- it was at the gym daycare when a 5 year old took his basketball and then pushed him down (which honestly, I don't blame him at all). We talk about how we don't hit, bite, push, etc, and he knows it all. And he won't lie to me- I don't think he knows how because the first thing he told me when I asked him what he did at school today was "I bit Evan" Tongue Tied

Any advice? If he keeps it up I'm afraid they'll kick him out of the program. He generally is a good kid, and they know that and tell me, but I can't see this getting any better if they keep Evan in a room he doesn't belong in.

We're working on telling the teacher and what an appropriate response to Evan's behavior should be, but if it doesn't stop what's my next course of action (not specifically the biting, but the general behavior between the two)?

Thanks for reading this far. It SUCKS hearing your kid is bad at school.

ali-1411 · January 2012

Is Steven the oldest in his class? Like the only 3 yr old in a room full of 2 yr olds? That right there could be a problem. Can Steven be moved up? Then if him and Sam are in the same class again, there's no promise that they'll have the same issues. Maybe being in a different classroom with older kids will make a huge difference.

Mrs.Purdue · January 2012

what class is steven in? is it about time for him to move up? i know you said they already moved Sam up, even though Steven is older, so it seems like maybe he could move up to the next one? then you'll have to go back to the steven/sam discipline/behavior issues, but maybe that's an easier one to solve?

brideonjuly8 · January 2012

Mrs.Purdue:
what class is steven in? is it about time for him to move up? i know you said they already moved Sam up, even though Steven is older, so it seems like maybe he could move up to the next one? then you'll have to go back to the steven/sam discipline/behavior issues, but maybe that's an easier one to solve?

You both have an excellent point, and that's really the only thing I can come up with, but I'm 99% certain they're already at their max ratio. I honestly feel if both Steven and Sam were in an older class together they might be better behaved.

And yes, Steven is the oldest in his class. I think there's only one other little girl close in age to him (besides Sam, when he was in there) and I think the two of them are the only ones that are 3, the rest don't turn 3 until this Spring.

fjaril · January 2012

If they have that many turning 3, will they make a second 3 yo class? It might be time to look for a new school if they don't have enough room in the appropriate age group. :

I'm guessing they are trying to accommodate the new boy and give him a trial in that age group. Or maybe the parents have someone telling the school he needs to be in that age group.

It seems though, if he's having that many problems, it's not the right fit for the little boy. :

rssnlvr · January 2012

Other than having them move Steven up into the next room, the only other thing I can think of is using it as a teachable moment to teach Steven about compassion and allowances for others who are different from us. Not all children are the same and not all children should be treated the same. Maybe if Steven understood that Evan had special challenges, he'd try to have more patience with him? Sorry, Bride. That must be really hard for Steven to feel like his buttons are constantly being pushed.

august8080 · January 2012

I'm going to play devil's advocate here a little bit and I really don't intend or want to hurt your feelings in doing so, just wanted to give you some other things to think about, so please read it with that tone in mind .

There could potentially always be a "trigger kid" in your child's class from now til the end of his school days. Sometimes, the best solution might be to move your son or the other child out of the class, and sometimes, even though that IS the best solution, maybe the administration can't or won't be willing to.

I would not count on moving kids around as the solution and would instead focus on what you can do with Steven yourself and working in conjunction with Steven's teacher to help change HIS behavior, because, really that's all you have power to change. Evan might be the biggest brat on the planet every day he comes to school, but there's nothing you can do about it since he's not your kid.

Obviously, this is a lot easier to work on with Steven if he's 10 and not 3, but I think you do the best you can because we have to deal with people we don't like or who negatively affect us all through childhood (and adulthood, for that matter!) I would talk with his teacher about how she is going to coach Steven through difficult moments with Evan, how she's going to respond to negative behaviors, how you can support that at home, ideas you have about what might work best, etc. Maybe you can try some role play with him so that he can practice an acceptable response when Evan is pushing his buttons? Again, I know he's 3 and that's easier said than done.

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this, especially after developing such a long-standing relationship at a place that you obviously feel comfortable putting Steven. I know those aren't always easy to find. Good luck!

brideonjuly8 · January 2012

rssnlvr:
Other than having them move Steven up into the next room, the only other thing I can think of is using it as a teachable moment to teach Steven about compassion and allowances for others who are different from us. Not all children are the same and not all children should be treated the same. Maybe if Steven understood that Evan had special challenges, he'd try to have more patience with him? Sorry, Bride. That must be really hard for Steven to feel like his buttons are constantly being pushed.

I mentioned today that he really needs to be very patient with Evan because he's younger, and we practiced saying "Miss Mary, Evan ___" and I made up several scenarios (took my toy, hit me, keeps touching me, won't leave me alone, etc). However, I would be really afraid to call Evan "special" or anything of the like for fear of Steven repeating it at school. I'm just not sure if he would really *get* that Evan is different in that way if I tried to explain it to him like that. I'll probably hit more on "younger" and see where that gets me.

kellenickle · January 2012

brideonjuly8:
And yes, Steven is the oldest in his class. I think there's only one other little girl close in age to him (besides Sam, when he was in there) and I think the two of them are the only ones that are 3, the rest don't turn 3 until this Spring.

We have gone through some really rough times when DD has been the oldest in her class(es). Like, Steven, she's a good kid, but can only be pushed so far. We always found that the teachers had much higher expectations for her than the younger kids. I know that's a good thing, but she couldn't understand why some "rules" (use your words, etc) applied to her, but the younger kids weren't held to the same standards b/c they were "still learning".

I would really push for him to be moved up. Even if the older class is full, maybe there's a kid in that class that can be moved up to the next class.

Good luck - that's not fun.

brideonjuly8 · January 2012

august8080:
I'm going to play devil's advocate here a little bit and I really don't intend or want to hurt your feelings in doing so, just wanted to give you some other things to think about, so please read it with that tone in mind .
There could potentially always be a "trigger kid" in your child's class from now til the end of his school days. Sometimes, the best solution might be to move your son or the other child out of the class, and sometimes, even though that IS the best solution, maybe the administration can't or won't be willing to.
I would not count on moving kids around as the solution and would instead focus on what you can do with Steven yourself and working in conjunction with Steven's teacher to help change HIS behavior, because, really that's all you have power to change. Evan might be the biggest brat on the planet every day he comes to school, but there's nothing you can do about it since he's not your kid.
Obviously, this is a lot easier to work on with Steven if he's 10 and not 3, but I think you do the best you can because we have to deal with people we don't like or who negatively affect us all through childhood (and adulthood, for that matter!) I would talk with his teacher about how she is going to coach Steven through difficult moments with Evan, how she's going to respond to negative behaviors, how you can support that at home, ideas you have about what might work best, etc. Maybe you can try some role play with him so that he can practice an acceptable response when Evan is pushing his buttons? Again, I know he's 3 and that's easier said than done.
I'm sorry you're having to deal with this, especially after developing such a long-standing relationship at a place that you obviously feel comfortable putting Steven. I know those aren't always easy to find. Good luck!

I totally get the "trigger kid" thing, but since Evan has some handicaps, I worry for him that he doesn't understand when my kid reacts to his behavior and it could possibly be doing him harm (mentally, as well as physically). If I were his mother I'd be pretty pissed, but I also wouldn't want him in a class he clearly wasn't ready for. We were all in the classroom for their holiday party and it was more obvious than ever that he wasn't ready to be in there. He wouldn't sit, he was taking others snacks, and she just watched. I was kinda dumbfounded.

And I hope I didn't come across as implying Evan is a brat, he's definitely not, he just doesn't know better, is immature in most ways, and just doesn't understand. I don't think he really knows he's doing wrong by just taking things away from other kids, and my kid doesn't understand that he doesn't understand, so when my kid hauls off and bites him I gotta wonder how they're both gonna work it out. My kid is no angel and has definitely taken things from others his fair share, but this seems to be a multiple daily occurrence between the two.

I know my kid can be good, and I want him to have the opportunity to be good, KWIM? Sitting in timeout several times in the 3 hours he's there isn't any fun for him. I was watching with my mom one day when I went to pick him up and he didn't know I was there yet. Another little boy in his class was holding a car he wanted. I couldn't hear what he was saying, but he was pointing to the car and talking to his teacher. Steven then bends his head down to look at the car as closely as he could, trying to get the other kid to give it to him. Like if he looked at it hard enough and close enough the other kid would hand it over. It was hilarious, and I was so proud of him for not just taking it away. So, I know he's got it in him to refrain from doing something he's not supposed to, I just don't think he has the patience for it with Evan.

brideonjuly8 · January 2012

kellenickle:
brideonjuly8:
And yes, Steven is the oldest in his class. I think there's only one other little girl close in age to him (besides Sam, when he was in there) and I think the two of them are the only ones that are 3, the rest don't turn 3 until this Spring.
We have gone through some really rough times when DD has been the oldest in her class(es). Like, Steven, she's a good kid, but can only be pushed so far. We always found that the teachers had much higher expectations for her than the younger kids. I know that's a good thing, but she couldn't understand why some "rules" (use your words, etc) applied to her, but the younger kids weren't held to the same standards b/c they were "still learning".
I would really push for him to be moved up. Even if the older class is full, maybe there's a kid in that class that can be moved up to the next class.
Good luck - that's not fun.

You hit on an excellent point here. I heard his teacher say several times today that they were trying to get Steven to "use his words". He's very talkative, both at home and at school, and can very clearly tell us what he wants us to know. BUT Evan doesn't speak. At all, really. So yeah, I can totally see how that would confuse him when he's told he has to communicate with words, but Evan doesn't have to. If Evan is so far behind that he can't speak, I just wonder why they think he'd be okay in a class room with 2, almost 3 year olds?!

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Preschool/daycare behavior problems- WDYD? (LONG)

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