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KathrynMD
member
What are your thoughts about the whole Santa Claus thing?
KathrynMD
member
There's been several posts on the toddler/preschooler boards about parents NOT wanting to introduce Santa Claus to their kids - mostly I think for religious reasons, but also b/c they don't want their kids to think they "lied' to them later. What is your opinion on this? Is this something your family is considering/has done?
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Re: What are your thoughts about the whole Santa Claus thing?
We are doing sort of a Santa lite. We went to visit him and Ada was excited about it. We have not told her that he will bring her presents or that she has to be good. We are just going to leave that part out for now and see where it goes later.
The holidays are tricky for us, because I am agnostic and my husband is an atheist. I see Christmas as a cultural tradition that I would like us to celebrate in a secular way, wiith more of a focus on the winter/solstice angle. I do think is important that she knows the real Christmas story, because it is part of both her dominant heritages-- Irish Catholic and Italian Catholic. My husband would rather avoid it all together. I finally talked him in to Santa, because I heard an interesting piece on Fresh Air about Santa being a good lesson in learning about and figuring out faith and religion.
Santa was a huge part of my childhood. My mother did an amazing job making it magical. She totally embodies the spirit of the season and I love that about her. I want winter to be a magical time for Ada and I think that includes Santa.
Sorry if this doesn't make much sense. I really am torn about the whole thing. Also my computer is broken, so I am posting on the iPad and it is being tricky.
We aren't going to do it for religious reasons.We had Santa when I was a kid, but DH didn't. When he was 5 he asked his mom why Santa didn't visit their house. MIL explained that they were Jewish and Santa doesn't exist. It's actually just kids' parents. That's probably what we will do.
I think the whole Santa thing is kind of BS. What about kids who ask Santa for things that there is no way that parents can provide? I bet those kids are really disappointed.
Not sure how I feel about the tooth fairy. Obviously, we aren't going to do the Easter Bunny, either.
My parents 'lied' to me and for me, I think it's just part of the spirit of Christmas. Some of my best memories are those moments where I just knew Santa was real. When I found out, I never felt like I was lied to or mislead.
We plan on introducing Santa as soon as she understands the concept. She's only 4 months old so obviously it's a little early, but we'll wrap all her gifts and say they're from Santa, we had her sit on Santa's lap, and we sing songs about Santa.
I think a lot of people need to unbunch their panties, relax, and remember what it's like to be a kid.
This.
And to add to that, we are Christian and will be emphasizing the birth of Jesus before Santa...This is exactly how my and DH's parents did it and I never felt like we confused Santa/Jesus/true meaning of Christmas (to our family)/etc.
DH and I will definitely be going the Santa angle next year (LO will be 6 months, so really it won't be something concrete for an additional year). I will also be discussing the religious angle (we are Catholic) and having an advent calendar. I believe that the "spirit of Christmas" is so many things and I remember it so fondly as a child myself...yes, I was a little disappointed on who the real buyer of gifts was, but to me, Santa is so much more than presents under a tree. I want to give our child that wonderment too, believing in the spirt of Christmas.
As for kids who don't get what's all on their Christmas lists, the best answer I ever heard was "well, I guess the answer to the asking was 'no'." (BTW, I have also heard this with prayer...when you ask for something, the answer isn't always going to be 'yes.')
Yes, we are definitely having Santa - it's not even a question. My family is not religious so we never did church or had nativity scenes around, etc but we celebrated Christmas and Santa was included. DH's family is Catholic and they did/do include religion in their holiday. But DH is agnostic/atheist now so we will celebrate Christmas in our home just like I did when I was growing up.
I think the worry about "lying" to your child is silly. I didn't feel like my parents had "lied" to me when I found out (and I was only 6 at the time).
BFP#1: 01/10, M/C 6w
BFP#2: 06/10, M/C 5w
BFP#3: 09/10, DS born June 1, 2011
BFP#4: 07/12, M/C 5w3d
BFP#5: 12/12, EDD 08/18/13
My Blog: Decorate This
They'll learn that sometimes you don't always get what you want or ask for. It's not a bad thing for a kid to learn. Heck, I know some adults that could stand for a lesson in this subject.
What both said of you said!
So true Camden!
I think that reasoning is quite silly, but that is soley my opinion.
We'll be telling DD about Santa and the religious aspect of Christmas as well since we are Catholic. I don't ever think my parents "lied" to me and there were years where my belief of Santa was waning, but getting a gift that I thought my parents could never afford kept my belief alive. My mom and I just had this discussion this past weekend. She never knew that I thought that and was happy she was able to keep me believing for so long. I'm not scarred and I don't think DH is either.
I hope your child doesn't ruin it for others.
I agree - disappointment is a part of life, whether you have Santa or not, but that doesn't mean you can't ask. I remember asking Santa for dozens of things and I never got more than a few gifts. Part of the fun for me, was thinking about everything I wanted - fantasizing about it all, even though I knew I'd never get it all.
I don't remember any moment where I felt my parents lied or misled me. It's all in fun. I think it's a silly argument.
That being said my kids will not have the crazy extravagant Christmases I had as a child. It's disgusting how much I had and I never appreciated it.
They will get 1 thing they want, one thing they need, something to wear and something to read (thank you Pinterest). I want to make Christmas about the spirit of giving rather than receiving and we will definitely be doing "adoptions" and other community things. DH and I decided to do that this year and I already feel better about our toned down Christmas.
Francesca Pearl is here! Josephine Hope is almost 3!
We both "grew up" with Santa & there's still a couple kids in our fam that believe in him so we're doing it with DS (& #2 next year) as well. We think it's just something fun. When they figure out there's no Santa, we'll explain it all to them. Neither of us, nor our siblings, felt like our parents lied to us & were awful people or that we couldn't trust them so I doubt that'll happen with our kids either.
We've also agreed that all Santa does is bring a couple gifts. DH's g-parents use to say Santa decorated the entire house on Christmas Eve, No thank you!!
Also, if there's something Santa is asked for that we can't get or afford, Santa will leave them a very nice note explaining why he wasn't able to do that for them. (i.e.: my friend told me his boss' kid wants an octopus for Christmas & asked Santa for it. I told him to tell her that Santa should write a note saying that an octpus shouldn't be kept as a gift but left in their natural environment in the wold. Instead, Santa "adopted" an octopus for them (via WWF) & here's a stuffed octopus & adoption certificate).
See - this attitude is what starts to piss me off. Sure, we'll go about it in a gentler way. But what would you suggest that a Jewish child be raised to believe? That Santa is real - but only for Christian children - just so that I don't risk my very honest intentioned DS one day "ruining" the magic for someone else's child?
When the question comes, because of course it will, we will tell him that he is an imaginary part of the spirit of Christmas, which is something that Christian children celebrate like we celebrate Hannukah. We will also tell him that some children embrace him as a real thing and that he should not go to school the next day and say anything that will change that for them. Just like he should not go to school and tell other children that the differing aspects of their religions are "wrong" just because he isn't being raised in a household that embraces them. But if my little boy goes to school the next day and instead mistakenly repeats what I told him, I sure as hell won't scold him for it or feel badly for explaining things as best I can to a child who isn't celebrating a holiday that is EVERYWHERE for a good portion of the year these days.
ETA - P.S. - I think Santa is lovely and don't subscribe to any reason for going one extreme or the other or anywhere in between if he's a part of a holiday that you celebrate. My response to the PP had nothing to do with that - but it was asking for a bit of empathy when it comes to raising a non-Christian child during a time of year that you can hardly set foot outside of the house without tripping over a reindeer. DS is amazing and sweet and everything else on a long list of perfect (IMHO
and I'm not going to raise him to believe anything that even begins to suggest that a real man named Santa Claus visits a long list of children every year that doesn't include him.
lovelylittleworld
BFP#2 1/12/12 ~ Missed M/C 8w2d
I've been wondering about this too. DD's "curriculum" has alot about Santa Claus this month and her non-religious preschool. They have a Christmas tree and a menorah (sp?) and are talking about holidays in general alot this month, but Santa is definitely a big/bigger part of it than other holidays. I certainly don't know everybody's religious background, but I know there are several non-Christian families (I'm not even particularly "Christian" but we are definitely culturally Christian). Its got to be a PITA when society is shoving Christmas/Santa down your throat and you want to respect it, etc. but also have your traditions, but not be a party pooper for others either.
IMO, a child who doesn't believe in Santa because of religious backgrounds is different than a child who doesn't believe in Santa because his parents have told him he doesn't exist. Growing up I can't recall if I had any Jewish friends in school, but I'm sure there were one or two kids in class who were. The topic just never came up. Kinda like "oh you're Jewish and celebrate Hanukkah and I'm Catholic and celebrate Christmas" and that was the end of conversation.
We're also Jewish, so that's the main reason we won't do Santa.
Not sure I follow the "difference" you're talking about - parents can choose what beliefs to instill in their young children, be it Judaism, Jesus, Santa Claus or Buddha. Maybe those beliefs will stick and maybe they won't; but I don't think of Jesus and Santa as a package deal. In any case, madlady said they weren't doing the Santa thing for religious reasons, so I don't really follow your comment.
In any case, any non-Christian family has to make choices about how best to approach things during a time of year when the "religious" has overflowed crazily into everyday life. I love eggnog and Christmas lights and the smell of pine as much as the next girl; but we're Jewish and are raising our son with that tradition and are going to have to make some decisions about what we're comfortable with along the way. The Santa question is going to come when he's 2 or 3 (esp if he goes to a "nondenominational" school - see Kathryn's pretty insightful comment above) not when he's old enough to understand that "you're Catholic and I'm Jewish and that's the end of it". And when that question comes, I'll be as honest as I can with a preschooler.
At the end of the day I think parents should do whatever they think is right for their kids. It's definitely a challenge though and something I've been giving some thought too since Maddox has been old enough to start noticing his yule-filled surroundings.
lovelylittleworld
BFP#2 1/12/12 ~ Missed M/C 8w2d
Thanks, Rags. You've said this more succinctly than I could have.
We go to that "non-denominational" school that Kathryn does and we got a note from DD's teacher that they were working on their Xmas cards. They've also done stockings and Christmas trees. DH told the teachers the next day that we don't celebrate xmas, so it really doesn't mean anything to us. (soon after, we got a Star of David covered in glitter and they are now reading Biscuit and Hannukah).
DD doesn't notice it so much now, but she will in the future. We are actually thinking of changing to the Bet Yeladim. It's one thing to choose not to participate, but it is quite another to have the holiday itself being pretty much shoved in your face everytime you turn on the tv, leave your house, etc. Try to look at it from a Jewish (or non-Christian) point of view. Most of the decor,food, tv programs on now reflect the Christian majority/Christmas. I'm not saying that it shouldn't, because that is the major religion and culture here.
FWIW, my original post was about my JEWISH husband asking his JEWISH mother why Santa didn't come to their house. As a Jew, what answer was she supposed to give?
[To my knowledge, my DH did not go and "ruin it" for other kids at his school, but how is this different from kids who know there is no Santa and ruining it for the believers?]
We'll do the Santa thing, DS already see's a santa and identifies him. For me the whole Santa aspect has always been separate in my mind (if that makes sense) than what Christmas is really about. Growing up Catholic (and still am) I never associated Santa with the church, advent, or the birth of Christ. Neither DH or I ever felt lied to, and like FIA said, I don't actually remember when I didn't believe anymore. For kids it's part of the magic. I don't think we will emphasize the "you have to be good or Santa wont bring you presents" to DS because I don't want him to associate getting gifts with good behavior at any time of the year. My mom also talked a lot about St. Nicholas when we were growing up and about the spirit of giving and being kind to others, and that really stuck with me, I don't remember thinking of Santa as the guy who gets me what I want, but as a kind old guy with a beard that was kind and gave to others. And honestly I think by the time Christmas morning rolled around I probably forgot what I put on my list to Santa anyway, so if I didn't get that pony I'd asked for, all was forgotten when we ran down the stairs.
And one of my BF's is Jewish, we've been friends since 2nd grade, and I really don't think we ever had a conversation about if Santa was real or not when we were younger. I'll have to ask her what her parents told her growing up, I'm curious now!
I couldn't agree more with all of this and have been giving so much thought, together with DH, about how best to let DS enjoy the joy and beauty of these months of the year without slipping into a grey area between religions. I don't begrudge the decor, music, tastes and sounds of the Christmas season. They're lovely and they're a part of a holiday that the vast majority of the population celebrates.
What Kathryn and madlady wrote above is a huge part of why we're seriously considering Bet Yeladim.
Oh, and FWIW, putting up a menorah in the room doesn't balance things out. Hannukah is a totally insignificant Jewish holiday that's gotten blown up to give Jewish kids something in the month of December. The day a nondenominational school sends your kids home with a Yom Kippur art project in late September is the day that I start to think teachers who want to bring religious holidays into nondenominational classrooms in a balanced way are starting to get a clue.
lovelylittleworld
BFP#2 1/12/12 ~ Missed M/C 8w2d
So true!!
Actually, saying that Hanukkah (which I expect I'm spelling differently every time I write it - damned transliteration) pales in comparison to the High Holy Days is a massive understatement. It's really just a festival - and a pretty minor one at that. Here's a site that does a pretty awesome job at explaining things in a basic, not-patronizing way. Scroll down for the menorah bits.
And I'll even throw in an article that taught me a little something when I was a-googling on this topic earlier today. Very cool way of looking at things.
And just for irony's sake, I close with this.
Which is totally fine for the same reason that you might let your kid eat a hamentashen.
Well, not exactly. Since at least the cookie is real.
lovelylittleworld
BFP#2 1/12/12 ~ Missed M/C 8w2d
Our daycare is run by a Jewish family and I think they are doing a great job. They do a Holiday concert and all the rooms that have a Jewish child in it sing at at least 1 Hanukkah song. Last year Evelyn's class did The Dradle Song and it was beyond cute!
They don't have a Christmas Tree or a Santa set up and they do not do any gift exchanges. The only art project DD has brought home is Frosty the Snowman. The school is sponsoring 2 families in the community and collecting gifts for them, but that is pretty much it.
So, I just wanted to say that there are daycares out there where the whole Santa thing isn't shoved down the children's (and parents) throats.
That sounds like a good balance.
lovelylittleworld
BFP#2 1/12/12 ~ Missed M/C 8w2d
I love them for mulitple reasons, not the least of which is because the owners were very engaged in ensuring that all of the teachers worked with Evie's PT to learn her therapies and incorporate them into the classes daily schedule. The holiday stuff is icing on the awesome cake.
LOLz at the honorany "n"!