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ebearwife
member
Question WHY would you choose private over public?
ebearwife
member
I am seeing lots of "public schools suck" in your comments in the thread below but no "reasons", ie "they cheated at my public school and I don't trust them" or "scores are notoriously low at my school" or "my child is going to be the only purple polka dotted kid at that school" or "I disagree with the political/religious/cultural viewpoint at my school" or "too much gang violence". Just "they suck". I guess I just wonder why the schools stink so badly you don't want your kids going. I went to the only public school in my area. It wasn't great overall but there were a few excellent teachers and I had access to AP classes, I was a minority at my school and most students were on free lunch but it got the job done. I mean, I graduated from GEORGIA TECH (a public school BTW) on my "sucky" rural GA public school education. Granted it was the 90s in the Bible belt and they did me and the other students the EXTREME disservice of not teaching evolution but I found a way to learn it anyway at college. I guess I am just in the camp where if you decide you want to go to a specific college or follow a particular career path and work hard enough then you can get into that college no matter what your high school is. And for the record, if one of my kids EARNS a spot (with full scholarship) at an exclusive expensive highly sought after private school and I can somehow manage to get them there, they will go. But short of that, Dacula High school is right around the corner and the cheese stops across the street from my driveway.
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Re: Question WHY would you choose private over public?
Speaking from a person that works in Education, the main difference you find and this is generally speaking is the parent involvement piece. Typically, the lower the income of the parents (ie they are out working 2-3 jobs or working evenings, etc) the lower the test scores will be for that school. Kids who have parents involved in their school by either volunteering or working with them on homework will do fine.
Parents tend to get nervous about public schools because of the other students in them, not necessarily the teachers or administration. No one wants their kid hanging out with the "wrong crowd". Kids who don't have a lot of parent supervision tend to get into more mischief.
What happen in APS is extremely unfortunate, but don't kid yourself, that happens across the country. They just got caught. I know Gwinnett Schools well, and Dacula is a good district to be in, so I wouldn't worry about it. Just remember that Dacula is a highly residential area and in those areas, there's higher parent involvement. That's the real key.
I should start off by saying that I'm also a child of public schools. And I feel like I got a quality education. However, I realize that GA schools today are not the same as they were just a decade ago. And who knows what state they will be in another decade. I just don't have the same confidence level that my parents and IL's had when they sent us to GA public schools. My FIL was horrified that we would consider spending money on private schools. They had honestly never considered it- they bought a house in a "good" school district and that was that. The thought that we would even consider buying a house in a "bad" school district knowing that we would have to pay for private schools absolutely blows his mind. But like I told him, there is no guarantee that a "good" district now will still be a "good" district by the time our kids are in middle/high school. There are too many variables in this state/country right now.
Also factoring into my decision is the fact that I did attend private Christian schools in Mississippi for my early years. For me, the transition from private to public when we moved to GA was pretty seamless. But for my brother, it marked the beginning of a downward spiral that led to some very hard times for him and my family. He just didn't get the kind of one on one attention that he needed with a learning disability. Without the guidance and involvement of his teachers, he quickly fell in with the "wrong crowd" and his grades and behavior slipped quickly. My mom has always said that she wished she could have kept him in a private setting when we moved here. She thinks it might have made a difference for him. So I guess I feel like each kid is different and even though I would love to save the money and go with public schools, if I decide that one of my kids needs more than they have to offer- I won't hesitate to switch to private.
Bwahahaha! Love it!
I'm sorry, but I LOL'd at this. All joking aside though, this was pretty much our reasoning for being dead set on private school for DS had we stayed in the Locust Grove/McDonough area. I am curious to know some of the reasons also since we just moved to Gwinnett County. I have heard parts of the county are good and other parts not so much. Although, I'm not sure where we will end up when it is time for school since we are just renting until we find the area with the best schools.
I think you answered your own question.
Unfortunately, "a few excellent teachers" does not pave the way for the whole school to succeed like you did. Good for you that you got it done, but for some math and science do not come easily. If I had gone to a school where the teachers who cared and/or COULD help were few and far between, I may not have graduated.
This. Have you ever heard of the school commonly referred to as "Ghetto Creek?" Yeah. That's our district.
Brilliant.
Aside from that, the public school system is structured in a way that 'teaches down,' for lack of a technical term. I am a strong supporter of public education, I am a very active parent at our school and volunteer across the board, not just in Emma's grade or class. I'm with you, we only had 1 elementary, middle and high school in my town. I guess I was a minority although I never felt like it. However, let me assure you, sh!t has changed in the 25-ish years since I was in elementary school. Way, super, duper changed. Like it doesn't even resemble the elementary school experience that I can remember. And to me, that's the kicker. I remember parts of being in Kindergarden all the way through school. Except maybe half of Sr. year but that's another story....haha.
Anyway, the rules are different, the administration is different, the teachers are different, the goal is different. I was never forced into a standardized schedule of learning as a kid. I was reading on a 3rd grade level in Kindergarden. Not only is that kind of advancement (and I'm far from a prodigy) not encouraged anymore, it is discouraged because what the hell are they going to teach you in first grade if you already know how to read? What are they going to do with that child who already meets the skill the rest of the class is learning? So all of the kids with crappy parents who don't take the time to read books to them when they are little, or sing the ABC's with them, or teach them colors, or have very little, if any intellectual interaction with them at all, become speed bump in your childs education. And that sucks.
I'm surprised you are surprised about this. We live in Georgia. One of the worst states for public education in the US. Even the best schools are still, in fact, in Georgia.
I'll give you some reasons we would choose private over public -
Class sizes. 8 kids per teacher vs 24-26.
Outside time is 15 minutes. FIFTEEN (since you like caps) minutes. There have been numerous studies that have shown kids thrive more with more outside time.
Excessive testing. Why do our kids need to have standardized tests every single year? What purpose does it serve?
Old buildings. Low rankings. Unhappy teachers. Cuts to programs like music, art, PE.
I want my kids to be around kids where they strive for the ivy league. Shoot me if that is pretentious or snotty, it is the truth. I don't feel like we will get this where we are now. I could be wrong, and I do believe it is changing every year for the better.
I also don't want to send my kids somewhere where they 'get the job done'. I want them to go somewhere where they are excited to learn, where they have the kind of help they need if they need it, where they have teachers who can give small groups attention.
I don't believe the problem with public schools has anything to do with teachers. It has to do with resources and the county and the pressure of standardized testing in order to receive funds or keep their jobs. I think what APS did with the testing is so wrong but honestly? I can see why they did it. Their jobs and their funding depend on these stupid tests.
I could go on and on. But you can't argue that a public school education is better overall than a private school one. I went to public school in Ga. The best ones in the state. I went to a very good private university. My kids wouldn't get that from the district we are in now.
THIS! I grew up in a state with some of the best public schools in the country and I reaped the benefits by going to a top NE college. The education that DH and I received as kids in the public system in NO way compares to what our kids have access to here. The way I view it is that what we will pay for in private school, should we go that route, is what we would have paid in taxes to live in the northeast. Frankly, I'd love to move back to NJ when our kids are of school age,but unless we hit the lottery it won't happen. I am and involved parent so could my kids achieve in the public school system here? Probably. Would they have the BEST education in the public schools. No, not in my opinion based on where GA falls in the national rankings.
I agree MrsL, I am also an involved parent (see my rant above and the fact this consumes me so much), and I still think no matter how involved we get and how much we do at home there is still a major burden on the school to provide a top level education.
I don't believe you can't get a good public school education in Georgia. I know you can, I did it. But it involves a myriad of things - a great school, engaged teachers, a county that provides resources, parents that are encouraging and involved.
Edit: I would also like to say that Georgia, in my opinion, lacks a quality group of charter and magnet schools. That would make a big difference. They have them but not enough.
And most of the posters who are doing public bought in districts with great schools. We knew when we bought ITP that we were not in the best district and it was our burden to bear. We could have moved out to E Cobb but chose not to, so now we have to figure out how was can do private school.
Yes, you most certainly can get a good education in GA. I didn't mean that you can't. You just have to fight a lot harder to get there due to the curriculum in the state. We bought in a great school district but I am still not 100% sold on which way we will go.
Sorry, that wasn't aimed at you! I was rereading what I posted last night and realized I made it sound like I thought you couldn't ever get a good public education in GA, and I sounded kind of like an ass. So I wanted to correct that
Absolutely agree with this. The only other wild card is the students you end up in class with. I'm assuming that all GA public schools follow the same inclusion plan? Emma usually has at least 2 students with mental/physical handicaps or severe health problems. This year she has 4 hearing impaired students in her class. While I think exposure to that is great and I think it is awesome for the deaf students to get to be in a regular classroom, it is frustrating when the teacher sends home a note that says "Emma is spending more time learning how to sign than she is learning about her times tables."
Oh, and have you looked to see if all of the public schools you're looking at only get 15 minutes of outside time? We currently get a 20 min recess break, PE 3x a week, Art 1x week, Music 1x week, Spanish 5 x week.
Our school is also an IB candidate school which is supposed to be a good thing but to be quite honest, I don't fully grasp the benefit. Any teachers out there familiar with it? Please chime in!
My public high school had good teachers, but I wouldn't say they were "engaged." I didn't have many teachers go above and beyond for me. I finished high school with only two AP courses to my name. AND, I spent my entire schooling career in Clayton County. Friends in college were actually surprised I made it to college. You think I joke. Tack on that my guidance counselors did nothing to help me go to college - I was on my own. Parental involvement mostly consisted of parents bitching out the administration because precious got popped with weed again or couldn't keep from knocking up a 9th grader.
Parents are putting the burden on the school system to not only educate their kids, but raise them too. I'm witnessing it in daycare right now.
All that said, my child will more than likely attend public school. The only reason I would consider private is because the schools in my area aren't diverse enough. Not to mention, I cannot afford private school. Plain and simple. In the absence of superstar education at the elementary level, I'll supplement her education at home to the best of my ability (just like my single father did). I'll also work to instill a drive in her that guides her throughout her educational life.
Making broad strokes about public schools is doing a disservice to the public schools and the teachers there.
DD will not be going to public school where we currently live. I have nothing against public schools in general though.
DH and I both went to great public schools. Great facilities/labs/equipment, competitive sports teams and extra-curriculars, a full array of AP classes, large parent involvement, and teachers that were happy to be there. That's not the case were we currenty live. Sure she could make it in a public school, but I want to give her the best environment to succeed.
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Should have just quoted you. Hit the nail on the head.
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In the county we are in it is 15 minutes of outside time. The pre-k program gets 30-40, and k gets 30 but after that it is 15. I am just a strong believer in outside time for kids, whether it is outdoor classrooms, PE every day, longer recess, whatever. There has been a lot of research done that says kids thrive and excel more when they aren't chained to a desk/room all day.
I don't think anyone should feel badly about sending their kids to public school. I am a huge proponent of public school, when it works. I really want to send my kids to our neighborhood school, to have that sense of community, to support the neighborhood, etc. But at the end of the day I have to make the decision that is best for our family. And maybe, in a year, we will decide it is public (I won't do pre-k there). Maybe not.
I disagree based on my own experience teaching in a public school. Of course it may be different in your system or school but that was not the case when I taught (in Cobb) at all. I actually felt the exact opposite. I felt like they were constantly pushing us to push the kids way too much and it was really hard to reach the "low" students who needed more help. We would never have kept a child on a lower reading level because that is where everyone else was. My class always had a wide range of reading levels, which made it really tough to reach everyone. We had to report our reading levels on quarterly data. There would have been a big problem had they all been the same or if everyone was only "on" grade level.
We will be sending our kids to public school. I am happy with the schools in our area and we seriously have no money for private school. If money were a deciding factor and I felt strongly that we needed to go private I would obviously try to make it happen. That being said, frlcb, you make some excellent points in your post that I totally agree with. Class size is a huge factor. That makes such a difference in not just how much attention your child will get but also in how much of a workload and stress the teacher has and can handle. I can't tell you enough how much just having a few kids absent from my class makes the environment so much better. And I'm not talking "bad" kids being gone, just less kids are so much more managable. The lack of outside time is absolutely ridiculous. When I taught kindergarten, they told me I even had to have my students learning something or working on something during snack. I thought that was ridiculous. Everyone needs a break to just relax for a minute. I think you really hit the nail on the head with the pressure that is put on teachers in public school and the lack of resources as well. All very valid and true points.
Don't! Seriously. To me it all really depends on the child and the teachers no matter what school. My DH and his sister have "fabulous" private school educations and it is NOT impressive at all. They complain about the awful teachers they had all the time and neither one of them can have a conversation without using pathetically obvious grammatical errors. It's embarrassing.
I started to go back and edit my comment to say that this was my specific experience with our school system. But that bring up another good point, I think that most every school is going to have unique approaches to situations like this that you almost have to be willing to roll the dice and see if works out for your child. Reading back on my comments I think I'm coming across much more anti public school than I really am. I send my child to public school so clearly I think the benefits for us out weigh the cons. I just feel like it is sometimes more helpful to paint a picture of the struggles that you might have to deal with and see if those are things you can work around. For us, at least so far, it has been manageable.
Absolutely don't feel guilty! 2 years ago we had I think 11 family's (families?) transfer over from a local private school and most of the kids tested on a lower level. Our area has a big problem with rich parents wanting different rules for their kids and can basically pay for good grades. I wish someone with first hand experience with private schools would throw in some of the challenges they have had to deal with just to balance out the feedback on this post.
I agree on arts and PE or outside time. There should be more. But if you don't round hole square peg education and cram in all the learning time somebody gets pissed and sues. Which is not an answer I like or condone but its the answer. The testing is just ludicrous, too. Folks think its somebody else's job to make sure their kids are educated and get into college. Its time to realize your kid is not going to do anything they don't WANT to do. There are "wrong" crowds at private schools. And don't forget the pressure to "keep up" with the wealthy kids that is probably stress unimaginable for teenagers. So go ahead and spend the money on private, get the brand name education and if little Johnny is still a pot head with no ambition then you just wasted your money, time, and energy while some poor kid from Grady HS works his/her butt off and is warming up that chair at Harvard you thought your kid was going to get by going to Woodward.
And I would wager that many students in public schools also want to go ivy league. And for some, even the poor kids, it will be a realized dream. Although I am just not sure what the BFD is for an Ivy League education unless you pursue law or medicine - and even then the payout vs what you paid to get the brand name on your fancy paper is probably not worth it in a lot of cases. You ain't gonna live in Beverly Hills with a History degree from Harvard. In fact you might just be tied to paying for that albatross for the rest of your life. My degree from a public university has more than paid for itself and I don't even work anymore. When I tell people where I went to school they are visibly impressed before I even tell them what my degree was - and that was not even why I went. I went bc I was a legacy and they had the degree program I wanted. So maybe I am the snobby one with my nose in the air bc not only do I think my public school education is adequate, I think it was profitable considering the amount of money my parents and I spent to get it vs how much I get out of it. And that is what I call "getting the job done". In fact, I have never once had someone tell me, oh, your education is just not good enough bc you went to a bass ackwards rural public school in GA. But I have met a lot of private school kids (now adults) who make a lot less money than I did when I was working even though their education is so superior to mine and they are just bewildered that they are not as wealthy as their parents - in fact some still are supplemented by their parents in order to "keep up". This is definitely not how I want to raise my kids.
Ebear, you are incredibly defensive about your college education. You asked a question about public school vs private and while I mentioned the part about the Ivy League I didn't think this discussion was about college. If you want it to be a discussion about private vs public universities then by all means bring it on.
It is clear that you have a very defined opinion on private schools. That is fine, and I can see where that comes from. But perhaps you should open your mind a little more and realize that not all private school kids are cut from the same cloth, and I can promise you that I went to a public high school in E Cobb with many a kid who ended up a pot head with no ambition and an incredible urge to 'keep up' with the kids who got BMWs on their 16th birthdays. It isn't solely a private school issue by any means.
I laugh at the notion that you believe the only good degrees from an Ivy League school are law or medicine, but whatever, if you want to believe that so be it. I live in a realistic world where I can guarantee you if 2 applicants went for a history job (whatever that would be) and one had a Harvard degree and one didn't the Harvard candidate would get the first look. It is just reality.
At the end of the day if I want to push my kids to be the best at what they want to be - whether that is something in the science world, math world, business world, or, gasp, art world - then why shouldn't I do it? If I can send them to a private school where they have smaller class sizes and more individualized attention and more specialized classes, why shouldn't I do it? It isn't a slight on anyone who goes to public school (for like the 10th time, I went to public school in GA), but it is a choice for my family. What I think, personally, is the right thing may not be for another family.
I do think there are real problems in the public school system in GA. I don't think you can argue that. Are there ways around it? Absolutely. Parental involvement is one of them, and a huge one in my opinion.
Are you serious with this? Hello, it is someone else's job to educate my children. They are called teachers. If it was my job then I would homeschool. Can you supplement at home? Sure. Do kids have to want to be engaged and active in their own education? Absolutely. But at the end of they day I am sending my kids to school - any school, be it public or private - to be educated. By someone else, by a teacher.
Bewildered? Really? I am surprised you know how much money so many people make. It is pretty much considered uncouth in my circle of friends to discuss salaries, but perhaps we are not the norm.
Also please remember that not everyone pays for their college degree after they are gone. Some people get scholarships and some are lucky enough to be able to pay in full. I had no student loans when I left college. Phew, I would hate to be paying for that 'albatross' for the rest of my life.
Finally, I hope you used the word ain't facetiously. Because that isn't helping your argument at all if you didn't.
I feel this way because I have taught in my public school district and am well aware of what goes on behind the scenes. Everything is about test scores, principals and admins. do not support the staff on real teaching and encourage unethical practices.It is a whole "dog and pony show". They have teachers write these 20pg. lesson plans but don't care that they cannot be implemented etc.
Even if DD had not been offered another job this year, I would have left my current one because of how things were going and I did not feel comfortable with them. I was in special education and I think it is even worse in regular education when you have the parents pressuring you as well.
DeKalb also is top heavy admin. wise both on how many people are up there and how inflated their salaries are. Then on the bottom of the ladder, classrooms don't have the supplies they need and teachers and paras constantly are taking the brunt of salary reductions and other cuts which does nothing for their morale which in turn does affect their teaching.
Racism and reverse discrimination are also something I have experienced as both a former student and teacher in DeKalb and I do not want my child to have to go through that.