how best to handle a sensitive subject... kinda long

agemmell · December 2011

let me first start out by saying i have NO opposition to religious ceremonies or religion in general. however, my bf and i are not religious, or a part of any church or organization of that kind. he was raised in the unitarian church, but hasn't really been involved with it since high school. i come from a catholic family, but i have not been to church in close to 20 years, and neither has anyone in my immediate family.

however, there is an expectation among some people in my family for us to have a christening or baptism for my daughter. we really don't want to have one, because it holds no meaning for us... we're not part of any church like i said, and we are both woefully ignorant about catholicism, and it would just seem silly to undergo such an important, symbolic religious rite that we don't understand or really believe in. i did some background research and you have to take classes, and join a church and have all these requirements that we would have to go out of our way to meet.. it just seems like a lot, and then after all of that it's not like we'd suddenly be attending church on the weekends or suddenly become religious. i'm sure its not that cheap either, and we're trying to save up for both a house and a wedding, which are 2 things that ARE really important to us.

anyway, i guess my question is... how do i present this to my family without seeming disrespectful? most of the shippers are older folks like my gparents and some of my more religious aunts and uncles, and my stepmom in particular. i don't want them to feel offended or insulted because i don't want to take part in their beliefs. and i don't want them to think i don't think their beliefs are important either, because they are. religion is a very important part of many people's lives, just not mine or my boyfriend's. i'm just not prepared for this to turn into some kind of argument.. i have told one of my cousins that we're not doing one, and i was made to feel like a horrible parent, she said i was banishing my child to hell.. which i just don't believe. but they do!

has anyone been in this type of situation? what is the best way to handle this?

TIA for any advice, i really do appreciate it...

TanyaKM · December 2011

We are not having LO baptized, which is a point of contention among some in our family. I don't tiptoe around it -- if someone asks, I tell them we are not doing a baptism and I don't leave it open to discussion.

Frankly, I'm not really worried about offending my family members on this. They have their beliefs and I have mine. My husband and I will make decisions like this for OUR child, and they are free to agree or disagree, but I'm not going to have a debate over it. If someone gives you grief, say 'thanks for your input' and change the subject.

katie4253 · December 2011

This is a case of Big Girl Panties to the Rescue.

This is what you say:

"We aren't baptizing LO"

If they ask why, you can say:

"We don't believe in it" or "I'd rather not discuss it"

Sorry, there is no tiptoeing around this. You've just got to accept that people will be in a tizzy over this.

agemmell · December 2011

katie4253:

This is a case of Big Girl Panties to the Rescue.

This is what you say:

"We aren't baptizing LO"

If they ask why, you can say:

"We don't believe in it" or "I'd rather not discuss it"

Sorry, there is no tiptoeing around this. You've just got to accept that people will be in a tizzy over this.

i get that it will cause a fuss, what im asking is if there is any way to do it that could avoid or minimize the fuss... which is why i asked if anyone had successfully dealt with this kind of situation. obviously, just telling them bluntly is going to cause a problem, which i am trying to avoid.

SoxFan777 · December 2011

I'm pretty religious, and I baptized DS early (two months) because it was important to me. We used a protestant church where I am very active, anyway, and it was wonderful.

That said, if it's not important to you, why would you do it? Also, you should know that SOME Catholic churches won't baptize the baby if you guys aren't married. Sad but true... that's another issue.

If you feel like it, use a protestant (lutheran, episcopal, etc.) church where you wouldn't have to jump through hoops, pay money, or take classes. But if it's not in your heart, I'd just skip it. Have a big "First Birthday" party instead.... Christenings are huge parties in my family so we usually do one or the other.

laurakaz13 · December 2011

agemmell:
katie4253:

This is a case of Big Girl Panties to the Rescue.

This is what you say:

"We aren't baptizing LO"

If they ask why, you can say:

"We don't believe in it" or "I'd rather not discuss it"

Sorry, there is no tiptoeing around this. You've just got to accept that people will be in a tizzy over this.

i get that it will cause a fuss, what im asking is if there is any way to do it that could avoid or minimize the fuss... which is why i asked if anyone had successfully dealt with this kind of situation. obviously, just telling them bluntly is going to cause a problem, which i am trying to avoid.

Well, this is great advice. You have to be an adult and make a decision that jives with your family. No matter what, people who will be rude enough to push their religion on you, will get upset if you don't agree.

How can there be any other way to approach this than honestly? I don't get what you're asking for if you can't just be honest with them.

agemmell · December 2011

the problem isn't the decision. i'm not trying to be blunt and rude to my grandparents, i was hoping for any helpful suggestions to break it to them in a way that won't break their hearts or offend them. that's all.

katie4253 · December 2011

agemmell:
katie4253:

This is a case of Big Girl Panties to the Rescue.

This is what you say:

"We aren't baptizing LO"

If they ask why, you can say:

"We don't believe in it" or "I'd rather not discuss it"

Sorry, there is no tiptoeing around this. You've just got to accept that people will be in a tizzy over this.

i get that it will cause a fuss, what im asking is if there is any way to do it that could avoid or minimize the fuss... which is why i asked if anyone had successfully dealt with this kind of situation. obviously, just telling them bluntly is going to cause a problem, which i am trying to avoid.

No avoiding it. You are an adult with a child. You're going to just have to accept that this is going to cause problems. Sorry, if it isn't what you want to hear...but it is the truth.

katie4253 · December 2011

agemmell:
the problem isn't the decision. i'm not trying to be blunt and rude to my grandparents, i was hoping for any helpful suggestions to break it to them in a way that won't break their hearts or offend them. that's all.

I don't understand why you think telling your grandparents, "we aren't baptizing X" if they ask is rude.

agemmell · December 2011

they're super old, they take offense to this kind of thing. maybe you don't know any super old people who are religious. i want to tell them, and others obviously, in a way that doesn't seem disrespectful is all. so that they understand my position. apparently you hold the opinion that no such way exists. maybe it doesn't. im just trying to find a middle ground.

old_time_girl · December 2011

Just avoid the subject altogether. (I'm a wimp. That's what I would do) If they bring it up, just say "We haven't considered it because We don't believe in it"
If they put up a big fuss, that's when you have to be blunt and tell them it's not up for dicussion

katie4253 · December 2011

agemmell:
they're super old, they take offense to this kind of thing. maybe you don't know any super old people who are religious. i want to tell them, and others obviously, in a way that doesn't seem disrespectful is all. so that they understand my position. apparently you hold the opinion that no such way exists. maybe it doesn't. im just trying to find a middle ground.

Yes, I know super old people who are religious. Maybe you say things differently than I would. If they ask, then tell them (not in a rude tone or anything) that you aren't going to do it. If they ask why, which I am sure they will, nicely say, "well, we just don't believe in it".

Being honest doesn't = being a b*tch. You can be blunt and nice at the same time.

DeannaSue84 · December 2011

I don't think your decision of not wanting your child baptized is "rude". Your family is going to have to accept your decision and get over it. Your LO is YOUR child, not theirs. I get really annoyed with familly members adding in their 2cents on how you raise your child.

Just tell them everything you've told us as far as the reasons. Good luck!

agemmell · December 2011

old_time_girl:
Just avoid the subject altogether. (I'm a wimp. That's what I would do) If they bring it up, just say "We haven't considered it because We don't believe in it"
If they put up a big fuss, that's when you have to be blunt and tell them it's not up for dicussion

haha, avoidance has kinda been my best weapon so far. i was kinda hoping they would just forget about it altogether... lol but even at her advanced age my grandmother doesn't miss a thing. i just keep saying "ohhh well maybe in the springtime..." but then what do i do when spring comes haha. and we're not married.. a pp said that we probably can't do a baptism in the CC if we aren't. so maybe that can be the excuse. saves us a buck on a wedding too haha

old_time_girl · December 2011

See, I think you shot yourself in the foot by suggesting that you might do it later. That means it's up for discussion. (exact date, ect.)

I now change my answer to; you have to say that you will not be baptising your child at all. period. If you don't, they will nag you forever. Here in the baptist church, we don't do it until the child is old enough to understand what they are doing. It's the childs choice, not the parents. I guess if you want another excuse, you could try that one. "Not until she's ready to make the choice on her own"

mdotm0904 · December 2011

katie4253:

Being honest doesn't = being a b*tch. You can be blunt and nice at the same time.

*nods in agreement* It's been my experience that people take offense not to the words that are said, but the tone and meaning behind it. If you cop an attitude like "ughhh this is my kid and we just don't want to get her baptized, back off". Of course they're going to be offended. But if you have a soft tone and you're just honest with them, it'll soften the blow. But the bottom line is THEY ARE GOING TO BE OFFENDED REGARDLESS OF HOW YOU SAY IT! To them you are breaking custom/tradition. They don't care about your views/feelings on how you want to raise YOUR child...all they know is, you're going against something that THEY believe, and they're going to take it personal.

If you cause a stink, oh well, they have two options...get over it. or don't. And you have two options as well, be honest and get it over with, or conform to what your "family" wants you to do just so that you won't cause a stink.

agemmell · December 2011

i guess thats true... quick like a band aid... i guess it will have to just be a tone thing. i just hate to disappoint them, you know? especially since they are older i don't like to get them all riled up.

also, unrelated, but your daughter is adorable in that bear suit. i legitimately had a cute attack when i saw that picture.

itsmevkb · December 2011

So, are your older, religious relatives mad that you are unmarried and have a child? After that do you really think they will be surprised if you say you aren't going to baptize your child?

If you are trying to just let them down gently why not tell them that your child will be baptized once they are old enough to decide for themselves? That isn't how Catholics do baptism but that may appease some members of your family. For hardcore Catholics though really nothing is going to make them happy until you baptize. To them you could just say something along the lines of "I don't believe a loving God would condemn my baby to hell just because I choose not to baptize them."

And just an fyi, a Catholic baptism doesn't cost anything. Were you baptized Catholic because if so, then you are considered a Catholic and wouldn't have any issues joining a church. Not that you want to, but you said in your post that you looked into it and thought that there would be classes, etc.

memali26 · December 2011

Spin it so you are trying to show respect for their beliefs - you feel that because you don't believe it would be an empty gesture to baptize your LO, and that would be disrespectful to their beliefs. Be calm and respectful in how you say it, but like PP said, you're an adult now. You have to stand firm on your decisions whether others like them or not.

agemmell · December 2011

itsmevkb:

So, are your older, religious relatives mad that you are unmarried and have a child? After that do you really think they will be surprised if you say you aren't going to baptize your child?

If you are trying to just let them down gently why not tell them that your child will be baptized once they are old enough to decide for themselves? That isn't how Catholics do baptism but that may appease some members of your family. For hardcore Catholics though really nothing is going to make them happy until you baptize. To them you could just say something along the lines of "I don't believe a loving God would condemn my baby to hell just because I choose not to baptize them."

And just an fyi, a Catholic baptism doesn't cost anything. Were you baptized Catholic because if so, then you are considered a Catholic and wouldn't have any issues joining a church. Not that you want to, but you said in your post that you looked into it and thought that there would be classes, etc.

i did not know it didn't cost anything.. thats definitely good to know in case i cave or something. they were kind of upset about the unmarried/baby thing but we've been together for awhile and they know my bf very well (he works in the fam business) so they kind of looked past it, which was totally a shock to me.

also i agree more with the later baptism thing.. if my daughter ever came to me wanting to be baptised i would support her 100% you know? it just seems odd to do it to a baby if i don't believe in it.

i was baptised as a baby, but i have no clue what church it was at. in ny somewhere. so you're saying that any catholic church would do it then? i didn't know if i could just walk into one in my neighborhood and have that be ok.

agemmell · December 2011

memali26:
Spin it so you are trying to show respect for their beliefs - you feel that because you don't believe it would be an empty gesture to baptize your LO, and that would be disrespectful to their beliefs. Be calm and respectful in how you say it, but like PP said, you're an adult now. You have to stand firm on your decisions whether others like them or not.

Thank you.. EMPTY GESTURE... thats the perfect phrasology that i was searching for but that my numb working mommy brain couldn't conjure. i appreciate that. its just important to me to be respectful of them while being true to myself.

mdotm0904 · December 2011

agemmell:

i guess thats true... quick like a band aid... i guess it will have to just be a tone thing. i just hate to disappoint them, you know? especially since they are older i don't like to get them all riled up.

also, unrelated, but your daughter is adorable in that bear suit. i legitimately had a cute attack when i saw that picture.

Thank You!! Smile And i understand. i disappointed my family a little bit when i "broke tradition" by giving my daughter my last name as opposed to her dad's. It's frustrating feeling like you have to explain yourself and your decisions to so many people. Especially to your family, people who are supposed to support you no matter what. But it's definitely better to do it now, than to put it off.

JessandIgli · December 2011

katie4253:

This is a case of Big Girl Panties to the Rescue.

This is what you say:

"We aren't baptizing LO"

If they ask why, you can say:

"We don't believe in it" or "I'd rather not discuss it"

Sorry, there is no tiptoeing around this. You've just got to accept that people will be in a tizzy over this.

Totally agree with Katie. They aren't going to be happy, but you are the parent not them. I agree that it makes no sense to baptize only to please people, not because you believe in it.

FWIW about the banishing LO to hell arguement, the priest told us during our baptism class that Catholics used to believe babies not baptized would go to limbo, but recently the archdiocese changed this to all children go to heaven baptized or not because they are all God's treasures. Now, everyone has different beliefs but you might want to tell your relatives to do their research..that's an outdated thought of the Catholic church from ages ago.

agemmell · December 2011

JessandIgli:

FWIW about the banishing LO to hell arguement, the priest told us during our baptism class that Catholics used to believe babies not baptized would go to limbo, but recently the archdiocese changed this to all children go to heaven baptized or not because they are all God's treasures. Now, everyone has different beliefs but you might want to tell your relatives to do their research..that's an outdated thought of the Catholic church from ages ago.

thanks for the info... i'm glad to know that because i am sure thats the #1 argument im going to encounter. when my cousin said that to me i was like um... no she won't...? nice to know they don't even know what they are baptising for. it seems to me that its more of a welcoming into the faith and church community rather than a free pass out of hell, or limbo. which is what it should be anyway, imo. the unitarians do a "welcoming ceremony" in place of what would be a baptism, so maybe that would be a happy medium if i could sell my bf on it.

Matt Dvorak · December 2011

agemmell:
the problem isn't the decision. i'm not trying to be blunt and rude to my grandparents, i was hoping for any helpful suggestions to break it to them in a way that won't break their hearts or offend them. that's all.

I had this issue with my MIL, so I understand your concern. It's tough not wanting to insult their beliefs, but also being able to explain why you aren't baptizing if they ask (which they might). I told my MIL that we haven't been practicing and will not baptize, but we will be open to teaching our LO about different religions as he grows up and make decisions for himself about religion - so maybe he'll decide he does want to be baptized someday. Up to him.

I wanted to be as respectful as I could be about this b/c I do love my family and don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. Also, I understand that my relatives beliefs are such that they may really be concerned with the consequences of not baptizing - so they're not trying to be rude by suggesting baptism.

agemmell · December 2011

lincolngirl:

agemmell:
the problem isn't the decision. i'm not trying to be blunt and rude to my grandparents, i was hoping for any helpful suggestions to break it to them in a way that won't break their hearts or offend them. that's all.

I had this issue with my MIL, so I understand your concern. It's tough not wanting to insult their beliefs, but also being able to explain why you aren't baptizing if they ask (which they might). I told my MIL that we haven't been practicing and will not baptize, but we will be open to teaching our LO about different religions as he grows up and make decisions for himself about religion - so maybe he'll decide he does want to be baptized someday. Up to him.

I wanted to be as respectful as I could be about this b/c I do love my family and don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. Also, I understand that my relatives beliefs are such that they may really be concerned with the consequences of not baptizing - so they're not trying to be rude by suggesting baptism.

exactly...

itsmevkb · December 2011

agemmell:
itsmevkb:

So, are your older, religious relatives mad that you are unmarried and have a child? After that do you really think they will be surprised if you say you aren't going to baptize your child?

If you are trying to just let them down gently why not tell them that your child will be baptized once they are old enough to decide for themselves? That isn't how Catholics do baptism but that may appease some members of your family. For hardcore Catholics though really nothing is going to make them happy until you baptize. To them you could just say something along the lines of "I don't believe a loving God would condemn my baby to hell just because I choose not to baptize them."

And just an fyi, a Catholic baptism doesn't cost anything. Were you baptized Catholic because if so, then you are considered a Catholic and wouldn't have any issues joining a church. Not that you want to, but you said in your post that you looked into it and thought that there would be classes, etc.

i did not know it didn't cost anything.. thats definitely good to know in case i cave or something. they were kind of upset about the unmarried/baby thing but we've been together for awhile and they know my bf very well (he works in the fam business) so they kind of looked past it, which was totally a shock to me.

also i agree more with the later baptism thing.. if my daughter ever came to me wanting to be baptised i would support her 100% you know? it just seems odd to do it to a baby if i don't believe in it.

i was baptised as a baby, but i have no clue what church it was at. in ny somewhere. so you're saying that any catholic church would do it then? i didn't know if i could just walk into one in my neighborhood and have that be ok.

Most parishes want you to be a member in order to perform sacraments, of which baptism is one, but joining a parish doesn't cost anything, you just fill out a form. With the baptism of our first child we were expected to attend a class, it was about an hour and a half long, about the meaning of baptism but the class didn't cost anything, nor did the baptism itself.

For most Catholic churches, however, at least one of the Godparents needs to be a confirmed (not just baptized) Catholic and from the sounds of it you may not have someone close enough to you to ask to be a godparent who would also have been confirmed.

I also agree with the poster who said that you could make sure your older relatives aren't still thinking your baby would end up in limbo if for some horrible reason she died. Old school Catholics still believe that.

JessandIgli · December 2011

agemmell:

JessandIgli:

FWIW about the banishing LO to hell arguement, the priest told us during our baptism class that Catholics used to believe babies not baptized would go to limbo, but recently the archdiocese changed this to all children go to heaven baptized or not because they are all God's treasures. Now, everyone has different beliefs but you might want to tell your relatives to do their research..that's an outdated thought of the Catholic church from ages ago.

thanks for the info... i'm glad to know that because i am sure thats the #1 argument im going to encounter. when my cousin said that to me i was like um... no she won't...? nice to know they don't even know what they are baptising for. it seems to me that its more of a welcoming into the faith and church community rather than a free pass out of hell, or limbo. which is what it should be anyway, imo. the unitarians do a "welcoming ceremony" in place of what would be a baptism, so maybe that would be a happy medium if i could sell my bf on it.

I agree. I baptized her to welcome her to the Catholic faith, not because I think she won't go to heaven otherwise. Also, and I just thought of this, the priest told us that baptisms were orginally meant to be done as adults. (If you believe in Jesus, he was baptized as an adult.) This is because the adult is making his or her own decision to join the faith. Baptizing babies didn't start until the Black Plague when people were afraid their babies would die before they were baptized. (Could have been when the whole go to hell if you aren't baptized thing started too). After the Black plague was over, people just continued to baptize babies.

No matter what you tell your family, they probably still won't be happy...but wanted to share those facts with you, it can't hurt to mention how all this came to be.

agemmell · December 2011

seriously, thanks very much for all the facts/history.. its actually all really interesting. i tried to wikipedia/google it but there was SO much information it seemed overwhelming, and i wasn't sure how to pluck out what i needed. see with this kind of information that i've gotten here, i can actually open a dialogue with them and not just seem like im making some off the cuff decision, which i know some of them would take personally (whether they should or not). and that was what i was hoping for. so thank you.. and thanks to everyone for the input

carig63 · December 2011

We had an issue similar to yours. I was in favor of no baptism at all, as our family hasn't really been church-going ever. But my husband decided it was important to him, so we started going to church and had our son baptized. I was there, but not really a participant.

My advice is to not blare the news out around those people you are worried will be offended. If they ask, you should answer them honestly. If they want to argue with you or push the issue, respond with "Thank you, this topic is not up for discussion" and change the subject. If they continue to hound you about it, THEY are being rude, not you. And I'm enough of a tyrant that I would call them out for their rudeness in hounding you over your decision for your family.

My mom in particular wasn't extremely pleased when I told her we probably wouldn't baptize our son (which was the plan when I told her), but knew enough that he was MY and my husband's child and that we would be making the decisions. If your family members can't do the same, just refuse to discuss it with them. Good luck!

lissaholly · December 2011

Here's the deal, if they are old school and deeply religious, not baptizing WILL rock the boat. No matter how you say it and ESPECIALLY if you try to talk about why you feel this way. This is a baby with original sin whose eternal salvation is at risk. For them thinking of your precious baby in he'll because you didn't baptize is tragic. You can't sugarcoat this horror to them. I would simply say that you aren't baptizing because you don't believe in it. Then tell them they are free to pray for your child if they wish and trust in their God's will for his plan of your child's life. Again though, any room for discussion will lead them ro argue your choice because their way IS the only way with them.

magnoliablossom00 · December 2011

SoxFan777:
I'm pretty religious, and I baptized DS early (two months) because it was important to me. We used a protestant church where I am very active, anyway, and it was wonderful.

That said, if it's not important to you, why would you do it? Also, you should know that SOME Catholic churches won't baptize the baby if you guys aren't married. Sad but true... that's another issue.

If you feel like it, use a protestant (lutheran, episcopal, etc.) church where you wouldn't have to jump through hoops, pay money, or take classes. But if it's not in your heart, I'd just skip it. Have a big "First Birthday" party instead.... Christenings are huge parties in my family so we usually do one or the other.

I'm a "hardcore" Catholic and have never heard that you have to be a member of any church or be married- and my uncle is even a priest! Actually, at the Baptism class you need to take (yes, you need one class that is only 2hrs), the deacon said how they would NEVER turn down ANY baby to be Baptized because it wouldn't be right. There was even a Jewish woman in my class who was Baptizing her baby "just because" her husband wanted her to, and not necessarily because she believed in it.

Baptisms are FREE.

Why should she go to a protestant church if she isn't protestant? That doesn't make any sense....

I definitely wouldn't Baptize your daughter if you don't believe in God- that seems absurd. But if you do believe in God (regardless of being Catholic or any other Christian), then I would definitely do it. DH's father and SIL are not Baptized and have always regretted it. They feel too embarassed to do it now because they are 50 and 20. It isn't going to hurt TO baptize, but it could potentially bother your child to NOT. Just sayin' from experience....

Side note- not that I know your relationship, but if you decide TO baptize, I would do it in your church, not BFs. You will always be in your daughter's life and bf might not (not to be mean, just stating that he could leave- not that any husband couldn't leave any wife, just pointing it out).

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