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2nd Trimester
Dog question (long, sorry, has background info)
Posts about animals can get very heated so (&flame if you must) I created a 2nd account to post this question under.
I have a child under 2 & am pregnant with our 2nd. We have a dog as well. My husband got him before we ever met.
-He bit my husband about a month after he got him (husband states it was his fault he got bit, he reached in the dogs kennel to take off his leash knowing the dog was upset since he had just been yelled at for growling at my father-in-law, & the dog bit his hand pretty bad). After that, there were not biting issues for my husband.
-However, a few months before we got married, the dog bit me bad enough to send me to the hospital for stitches on my wrist (again, husband takes majority of blame for it since I was disciplining the dog & then he stepped in causing the dog to react in biting me since my hand was right there).
-We talked about getting a trainer to come after the honeymoon but ended up not doing it (husband kept putting it off).
-Brought subject up again when I got pregnant but again, it didn't happen (I even wrote to Caesar Milan but never heard anything in reply). But, we agreed that if he ever bit again, we'd probably have to get rid of him.
-Dog has been great with DS. DS climbs on him (we do our best to keep him from doing so), chases him, plays with him, etc.
-Last night, I took the dog out. It was raining (he getting his paws wet) so he usually just stands there staring at you & does nothing (like he's incapable of going in the rain). This time, we had to go bad so he went right away. When we got to the door to go in, I told him "get in bed" & reached to take off his leash (same as every time we take him out). He bit my hand. Thankfully I was able to pull back fast enough that he didn't get a good enough bi to break skin & cause damage but it swelled up, I had some torn skin & it hurt so bad that I couldn't stop my hand from shaking in pain for almost an hour. My husband took the dogs kennel downstairs & had him sleep there for the night (usually sleeps in our room on my side of the bed). We talked a little about what to do but made no decision.
My question is, what would you do? Would you get rid of the dog since he's bit you twice, husband once & a friend as well (skipped that because friend was teasing dog in relation to food & friend still states this this day it was their fault for doing that; before I met husband as well)? Would you keep dog & "tighten the reins" (don't let him sleep upstairs, don't let him go over family's house, don't let him on furniture, etc)?
Husband has also mentioned before that if we ever get rid of the dog, he wouldn't want another one ever (& I love dogs, grew up with them & think it's very good for our child(ren) to grow up with them as well).
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Dog question (long, sorry, has background info)
Instinct or not, this is not an isolated incident and if he bites a stranger or a visitor you will be held liable for the attack. There have been cases on the news where dog owners got jail time because their dog attacked someone. If it were me I would get rid of the dog. You are not "dumping" it, you are protecting your family. It seems that at this point you have done everything you can and nothing has worked.
I would get a trainer and see what they have to say.
My personal first reaction being a dog lover is... get a dog trainer. Dogs are triggered to bite for various reasons. One of my dogs will growl/snip if you come up behind him unknowingly. He needs to see you, know your there, and THEN you can pick him up. He's an older dog and gets startled easily.
I don't believe in giving dogs away under most circumstances. One circumstance would be if an owner has exhausted all avenues and there is danger to one's children. In your circumstance, it sounds like typical dog behaivor. He hasn' snipped at your child and it's been a rarity that he's snipped at all. Training could go a long way. I'm not flaming, judging, or being snarky... but I think this defintely requires some more work and thought before giving him away is a real viable option.
Good luck
I think if you think about the biting damage he's done to you and imagine how that could look on a child, it should be pretty clear the dog is not safe around kids. He may just be using his animal instinct but I have never been bit by either of my dogs for any reason. Both of them are rescues coming from abusive backgrounds too. Some dogs just might be nippy but those dogs shouldn't be around kids.
I am a firm believer that when you get a pet, that pet is yours for life. Things like accidents in the house (over and over and over) are a reason to get a trainer. Bites that leave marks, cause swelling or bleeding, etc. are not. That is a reason to get rid of a dog, especially when children are involved. I am sure you are feeling more guilt than anything else. It may not be the dog's fault, but it also might not be resolved with a trainer either...and what if something happens before he is fully trained? (assuming you CAN eliminate this with a trainer).
Better safe than sorry.
I would start by taking the dog to a good trainer. I'd work out specifically what's triggering the dog (it appears that it's related to going towards the dog's neck, as well as a little bit of food aggression) and whether these triggers can be either 100% avoided or trained away. The reason why I'd do this before giving up the dog is because there's a very strong likelihood that the dog would be put down if you take it to a shelter. That said, there's clearly a safety issue here regarding the children and ensuring that the children don't trigger the dog's reactions. I absolutely wouldn't let this dog stay in the house with a newborn and a toddler without getting professional assistance - and even then, I'd be leery if I wasn't comfortable as a dog owner.
I will also say that I don't think negative reinforcement works particularly well with this particular dog, or with dogs in general. I think that one of the most important things that needs to happen is that you as a family needs to work on modifying your training/discipline techniques. Yelling, smacking, hitting, etc, are all aggressive techniques that seem to exacerbate the issue. Instead, your techniques ought to be focused on positive reinforcement (ie, treat the dog for allowing you to go near his food bowl. Give the dog attention when he's generally being good. Treat the dog every time you take off the leash - no matter what.) You still need to have a way to teach the dog that a particular noise or word means "stop that." But, the correct way to do that is to treat the concept of "stop that" as a command rather than a negative reinforcement. For example, if the dog growls, you can't yell at the dog for growling. That just reinforces the growling and makes it occur more often. Instead, a good option is to distract the dog with your "stop that" command, and then treat the dog when it stops growling. After a period of time, the dog simply learns to happily stop growling immediately when told not to, but is comfortable in that it's warned you of a particular danger (which is a better option than training the dog to never-ever growl because there are circumstances when you WANT the dog to growl. Like at an intruder.)
If they haven't taken the time to get the dog training then they certainly are dumping the dog off. When you get a dog, you take on all obligations... to feed it, to train it, to care for it. If the dog requires training... then get it. How has the OP tried everything if training is a route they haven't taken?
I'd post there and see what they can offer you. I'm sure they'd suggest a behaviorist. It's a lot cheaper than buying a new dog and it might help you guys keep your present animal (especially since the dog is great with your children -- you can't guarantee that with the future pet).
I would also look into NILIF -- Nothing in Life is Free. The pets board has a FAQ with training tips and there's even a blog with information on pets with children specifically.
NILIF is easy to use, it takes just seconds more in your day with interactions with your pet, and it worked 100% in our dog. She has completely lost her aggressive attitudes.
I will say that if I'd tried everything and could get rid of the animal following that, I would in a heartbeat. But not until I could have the clear conscience of knowing that I'd tried everything to keep my animal and create a co-existence that works for everyone.
If you surrendered that dog to a shelter, you'd have to give them the knowledge that it's a biter and the dog would likely be euthanized. You wouldn't just be getting rid of your dog. You'd be signing a death sentence for it. This sounds like a problem that can be corrected given your time and willingness to work with training.
I wish you and your family luck.
Hire a behaviorist/positive reward trainer. You can get names from your vet or local animal shelter/rescue.
I re-homed a dog with a history of biting this summer (not mine-an old fraternity brother of my husband's) because the owners were going to just euthanize him without trying a behaviorist or modifying their life to accommodate the dog (also adopted before the couple met). It took me 3 months at 20 hrs/week to find a no kill rescue that would take him and I had to drive him 4 states away to get him there on 24 hours notice for them to even take him. Everywhere else either refused him or was very honest with me ( I run a pet charity on the side) and explained that he would be euthanized immediately bc of his history.
As a PP noted it seems like there are specific triggers (neck and food) that bother your dog, a behaviorist can help you fix this issue. Just remember that the trainer/behaviorist is there to teach YOU. You will learn how to treat/interact with your dog to avoid negative behaviors and get the response you want from your dog, but you and your husband have to be on the same page and consistent with the dog at all times. It will take time, so don't get discouraged if the issues aren't fixed overnight. In the meantime (actually all the time regardless of the dog's history) never allow your child and the dog to be alone unsupervised, teach your child to stay away from the dog's face/food/bed, and remember that the dog is being a dog. He isn't trying to be 'mean" by biting, he's reacting. Maybe he is startled/threatened/etc. I would also utilize his crate when needed. Not as punishment-a crate should be a calming place for a dog, otherwise you are setting yourself up for aggressive behavior anytime you ask him to go in-but to give him a break and allow yourself to relax if youre in a position where you can't be right with dog and child, etc.
GOOD LUCK! I truly hope it all works out. I urge you to make all possible efforts (behaviorist, etc, even making the dog an outdoor dog if all else fails) to avoid giving him up. Sadly, that will more than likely be a death sentence for a pet that you and your husband obviously love and that your husband made a lifelong commitment to.
I said it seemed like she had.....geez! At any rate, jumping down my throat isn't going to solve her problem now is it? I'm not going to be baited into a flame war...bye! Have a GREAT Thanksgiving!
LOL, I didn't jump down your throat. I am not trying to have a flame war, either. I just didn't agree with your post... and I certainly don't see how you can say she's "done everything she can." Um, clearly since she admitted it herself, she hasn't. K, BYE.
Why have you not gotten a trainer for this dog? If my dog ever bit anyone I would get a trainer in ASAP. Most dogs bite out of fear. Where did your husband get him from? If he is from a shelter, then it is likely that he came from a bad situation and someone hurt him. You mention that he bites everytime you try to take his collar off. Someone probably hurt him around the collar area and now he is afraid and reacts by biting. We have a rescue dog who had some fear issues (never biting though. he would just cower in a corner). Luckily we got our dog as a puppy so we were able to mold his personality.
You mentioned that the dog had been yelled at for growling your father in law. A dog should never be yelled at for growling. This is how they communicate with people when they want to be left alone.
I really don't believe in giving up your pets. I believe there is a solution to every problem and that every dog can be trained. But you really need to work hard at it and get professional help NOW.
Sadly, this dog would probably be put down if you get rid of him.
She mentions that they kept putting off getting a trainer. She has not done everything she can.
First let me say that I'm a huge animal lover, but my response may not make some people happy. I would of course try to behaviorists and trainer first, but not everyone is Cesar Milan. Not only is your family in danger, but so is anyone that is around your dog. Thousands of dogs a year bite, mangle and kill people. Your first responsibility is to you, your family and other humans that maybe around your dog!
On the subject of your husband, this statement is not fair: ?Husband has also mentioned before that if we ever get rid of the dog, he wouldn't want another one ever.? It is a guilt trip, and the safety of your family should be first. Of course you never know how a new dog will act around children, but I?m sure you will work hard to make sure that the new dog is people friendly.
Please don?t feel bad or let anyone else make you feel bad if you need to re-home your dog, including taking it to the humane society. It sounds like you care for this animal and wouldn?t do anything rash.
Those of you that feel the need to flame have fun. I won't look at them.
I just want to say that I agree with you.
To the original post: Try the trainer/behaviorist but remember that family and other people who come into contact with the dog need to be of top concern.
DS1 born June 2008 | m/c at 9w March 2011 | DS2 born April 2012
I agree with this completely.
Thanks for replying.
1) The reason I haven't gotten a trainer is because my husband won't go for it. Why he's against it, I don't know. Both sides of the family & I have tried to tell him to do it, our friends have as well. He tells them he'll look into it. I end up doing all the research, I give him the info & he puts it off, puts it off & it never happens (mentioned this briefly in the OP)
2) When he was yelled at for going after my FIL, that was 1mo after DH got him & I wasn't in the picture. I can't prevent what happened before I was around.After talking with my FIL on T-day, I was informed that the dog wasn't only growling at him but had FIL's finger in his mouth (not biting to break skin, just holding his finger) while growling. This is why he was yelled at.
3) I didn't say he bites EVERY time I go for his collar. I said both times he has bit me, it's been when I was near his neck. I have taken him outside & for walks many times without him biting, growling or snarling. I have taken his collars off of him & even scratched his neck (a fav spot for him). This is why we don't know what caused him to bite me on the 22nd (the 1st time he bit & sent me to the hospital, we know why he did it; DH stepped in when I was already disciplining the dog & it caused the dog to react).
DH got the dog when we was 5mo old. He found him via PetFinder.com. When he went to the shelter, he was told the previous owners had to move out of state & couldn't take him with them. DH's fam & I believe that wasn't the real reason they gave him up but there's no way to prove it.
The dog has a dominant personality. Even with DH, he doesn't see him as the alpha, just as more of an "equal" (he challenges DH at times as well, but hasn't bit him since DH first got him).
I also found out that he has bit my FIL once & my SIL twice.
I have not had any interaction with the dog since this last time that he bit me. I don't trust him right now & want him no closer than arms length. That's very sad to me but I can't risk being bitten again, esp while pregnant, & having it be worse.
DH has been told again that we need to get a professional trainer. He has it in his mind that no one will know how to handle the dog except for him so he still won't go for it. The breed association for the type he is even told DH 3mo after he got him (he was going to get rid of him) that they wouldn't take him because of his aggressive behavior.