WTF appt.

hootie123 · November 2011

My husband and I met with our RE this morning. After looking over everything from both IVFs he was pretty certain that we have a bigger sperm issue. He was adamant that there is nothing wrong with my eggs or that there were any implantation issues. He really thinks it the genetic make-up of the sperm that are the issue (even though everything else checks out fine with him - other than the low counts/morph). He could tell there is likely a sperm issue by the way that they develop great until day 3 and then the quality declines as it approaches blast stage (which is why we never have any to freeze). He recommended that we could definitely try a third IVF but he would recommend donor sperm 'backup' - I guess meaning using both my husbands sperm and donor sperm. He also mentioned taking a biopsy to get sperm - but that is not usually done with some who produces enough otherwise. Of course, there is no guarantee that it would work either - as apparently each failed IVF your chances of success decline. He also said we could just try donor sperm/IUI. He was clear to say that donor sperm is easier said than done - and he understands that its a hard decision - but he sees no other reason why I can't get pregnant. I also asked his thoughts on PGD - and he said he thinks its really a needle in the haystack for us since we don't have any known genetic issues - and he would only recommend if we go to a specific clinic in New Jersey.

I told him we were switching insurance and going to a new clinic with coverage - and he, of course, understood - and told us that he knows them well and he will help us in any way possible. He doesn't think we need any more tests of bloodwork done at this point. I'm not sure what to do now - I guess I need to hear what they say at the new RE and see if they agree.

My husband and I didn't really get to talk after the appt - since we both went back to work. So I don't know what we'll end up doing at this point.

katieworek · November 2011

Hopefully the new RE can help you guys move forward. It seems like this appt would have been hard to sit through. ((hugs))

Jezebell26 · November 2011

First off i want to send giant huge enormous hugs to you and DH!!!!!!!!!

I am sorry he didnt have many other answers for you. I def recommend a second opinion and a fresh pair of eyes to look over all of your testing and cycles and so on. I would also be interested to know the name of the clinic in NJ they recommended, as I am in a similar situation and have been referred a few places that do PGD but have been also told to go to other places, that also do it. I am not sure if insurance covers PGD or not but it is definitely something im bringing up.

I really hope your new drs provide some insight and that you and YH come to terms with what your next steps are. Wishing you the best dear!!! *hugs*

hootie123 · November 2011

Jezebell26:

First off i want to send giant huge enormous hugs to you and DH!!!!!!!!!

I am sorry he didnt have many other answers for you. I def recommend a second opinion and a fresh pair of eyes to look over all of your testing and cycles and so on. I would also be interested to know the name of the clinic in NJ they recommended, as I am in a similar situation and have been referred a few places that do PGD but have been also told to go to other places, that also do it. I am not sure if insurance covers PGD or not but it is definitely something im bringing up.

I really hope your new drs provide some insight and that you and YH come to terms with what your next steps are. Wishing you the best dear!!! *hugs*

Thanks Jezebell - I didn't write it down but I still remembered it - he told us St. Barnabas https://www.sbivf.com/

limpetfan · November 2011

WOW. That is a lot to digest in one appointment!

I am so surprised this RE is recommending donor sperm. What is your DH's morphology (if you don't mind me asking)? The idea about the 'donor sperm backup' is a suggestion my RE made after our first IVF failed, but she didn't mention it again after the second failure. Now I'm really curious about it again - might contact her to find out more.

I am so sorry you guys might have to make some really tough decisions coming up. ((HUGE HUGS))

TJ1979 · November 2011

I'm sorry they didn't have better news for you. I hope things go well with the new RE. GL.

hootie123 · November 2011

limpetfan:

WOW. That is a lot to digest in one appointment!

I am so surprised this RE is recommending donor sperm. What is your DH's morphology (if you don't mind me asking)? The idea about the 'donor sperm backup' is a suggestion my RE made after our first IVF failed, but she didn't mention it again after the second failure. Now I'm really curious about it again - might contact her to find out more.

I am so sorry you guys might have to make some really tough decisions coming up. ((HUGE HUGS))

I know on his SA's it was either 2 or 4% - I'm blanking right now. He did tell me that this time we had like 3.6mil sperm and 75% motility - but he didn't tell me morph. I know the last IVF we had 13 mil sperm - which was the most we've ever had. He did say that there are likely 'good' sperm in there - its just that you don't know which is the right one and they pick the sperm based on morph.

The support group that I go to is led by a therapist whose IF story is now so similar to mine - she did 3IVFs with her husbands sperm and then moved onto donor IUI and has gotten pregnant twice. I think I'm going to call her to talk individually with me and my husband, especially if my other clinic also tells us to try donor sperm. My initial thought is to try one more IVF with my husbands sperm though.

Also - I asked if I should still take metformin - and of course, he said yes - he thinks it has helped, ugh!

Jezebell26 · November 2011

hootie123:
Jezebell26:

First off i want to send giant huge enormous hugs to you and DH!!!!!!!!!

I am sorry he didnt have many other answers for you. I def recommend a second opinion and a fresh pair of eyes to look over all of your testing and cycles and so on. I would also be interested to know the name of the clinic in NJ they recommended, as I am in a similar situation and have been referred a few places that do PGD but have been also told to go to other places, that also do it. I am not sure if insurance covers PGD or not but it is definitely something im bringing up.

I really hope your new drs provide some insight and that you and YH come to terms with what your next steps are. Wishing you the best dear!!! *hugs*

Thanks Jezebell - I didn't write it down but I still remembered it - he told us St. Barnabas https://www.sbivf.com/

OMG Thats where im going!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This group will be my 2nd opinion!!! How far are you from any of their offices? Would you be able to see them? They have come highly recommended to me and I have read through their website with a fine tooth comb and I feel pretty confident they will be able to help me, and you!!!!!!!!!

genmalone · November 2011

Oh Hootie, I'm so sorry you didn't get better news at your appt. I can't imagine how you and your DH would feel about making the move to donor sperm. I know that would be a really tough decision. I really hope you get more information and options from your new RE and that you can move forward with something your both comfortable with.

((hugs))

hootie123 · November 2011

Jezebell26:
hootie123:
Jezebell26:

First off i want to send giant huge enormous hugs to you and DH!!!!!!!!!

I am sorry he didnt have many other answers for you. I def recommend a second opinion and a fresh pair of eyes to look over all of your testing and cycles and so on. I would also be interested to know the name of the clinic in NJ they recommended, as I am in a similar situation and have been referred a few places that do PGD but have been also told to go to other places, that also do it. I am not sure if insurance covers PGD or not but it is definitely something im bringing up.

I really hope your new drs provide some insight and that you and YH come to terms with what your next steps are. Wishing you the best dear!!! *hugs*

Thanks Jezebell - I didn't write it down but I still remembered it - he told us St. Barnabas https://www.sbivf.com/

OMG Thats where im going!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This group will be my 2nd opinion!!! How far are you from any of their offices? Would you be able to see them? They have come highly recommended to me and I have read through their website with a fine tooth comb and I feel pretty confident they will be able to help me, and you!!!!!!!!!

He told me they were the best!!! I'm in western New York - its a good 8-9 hrs away at least. I'm switching to a clinic in Rochester though. I really hope they work out for you!!

limpetfan · November 2011

hootie123:
limpetfan:

WOW. That is a lot to digest in one appointment!

I am so surprised this RE is recommending donor sperm. What is your DH's morphology (if you don't mind me asking)? The idea about the 'donor sperm backup' is a suggestion my RE made after our first IVF failed, but she didn't mention it again after the second failure. Now I'm really curious about it again - might contact her to find out more.

I am so sorry you guys might have to make some really tough decisions coming up. ((HUGE HUGS))

I know on his SA's it was either 2 or 4% - I'm blanking right now. He did tell me that this time we had like 3.6mil sperm and 75% motility - but he didn't tell me morph. I know the last IVF we had 13 mil sperm - which was the most we've ever had. He did say that there are likely 'good' sperm in there - its just that you don't know which is the right one and they pick the sperm based on morph.

The support group that I go to is led by a therapist whose IF story is now so similar to mine - she did 3IVFs with her husbands sperm and then moved onto donor IUI and has gotten pregnant twice. I think I'm going to call her to talk individually with me and my husband, especially if my other clinic also tells us to try donor sperm. My initial thought is to try one more IVF with my husbands sperm though.

Also - I asked if I should still take metformin - and of course, he said yes - he thinks it has helped, ugh!

Maybe the Metformin HAS helped though. Maybe you'd be dealing with a double whammy of egg and sperm issues if not for the Met, you know? Still sucks that you need to stay on it.

I think what bothers me most is that there's no way to be SURE. The scariest thing in the world to me is moving to donor sperm/egg and still having it not work because that wasn't the problem. I think it would be fair to try one more time with your husband's sperm. Donor seems like such a last resort.

Jezebell26 · November 2011

hootie123:
Jezebell26:
hootie123:
Jezebell26:

First off i want to send giant huge enormous hugs to you and DH!!!!!!!!!

I am sorry he didnt have many other answers for you. I def recommend a second opinion and a fresh pair of eyes to look over all of your testing and cycles and so on. I would also be interested to know the name of the clinic in NJ they recommended, as I am in a similar situation and have been referred a few places that do PGD but have been also told to go to other places, that also do it. I am not sure if insurance covers PGD or not but it is definitely something im bringing up.

I really hope your new drs provide some insight and that you and YH come to terms with what your next steps are. Wishing you the best dear!!! *hugs*

Thanks Jezebell - I didn't write it down but I still remembered it - he told us St. Barnabas https://www.sbivf.com/

OMG Thats where im going!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This group will be my 2nd opinion!!! How far are you from any of their offices? Would you be able to see them? They have come highly recommended to me and I have read through their website with a fine tooth comb and I feel pretty confident they will be able to help me, and you!!!!!!!!!

He told me they were the best!!! I'm in western New York - its a good 8-9 hrs away at least. I'm switching to a clinic in Rochester though. I really hope they work out for you!!

Wow, i am so excited to get this going now! And im so sorry they are so far away. But im wondering if you can do some phone conferences or something like that. I hope the new drs in Rochester do the trick! I wonder if this group would be willing to review your records and give their opinions? Do they do that lol

limpetfan · November 2011

hootie123:
Jezebell26:
hootie123:
Jezebell26:

First off i want to send giant huge enormous hugs to you and DH!!!!!!!!!

I am sorry he didnt have many other answers for you. I def recommend a second opinion and a fresh pair of eyes to look over all of your testing and cycles and so on. I would also be interested to know the name of the clinic in NJ they recommended, as I am in a similar situation and have been referred a few places that do PGD but have been also told to go to other places, that also do it. I am not sure if insurance covers PGD or not but it is definitely something im bringing up.

I really hope your new drs provide some insight and that you and YH come to terms with what your next steps are. Wishing you the best dear!!! *hugs*

Thanks Jezebell - I didn't write it down but I still remembered it - he told us St. Barnabas https://www.sbivf.com/

OMG Thats where im going!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This group will be my 2nd opinion!!! How far are you from any of their offices? Would you be able to see them? They have come highly recommended to me and I have read through their website with a fine tooth comb and I feel pretty confident they will be able to help me, and you!!!!!!!!!

He told me they were the best!!! I'm in western New York - its a good 8-9 hrs away at least. I'm switching to a clinic in Rochester though. I really hope they work out for you!!

This place is about an hour and a half for me... hmm.... I already drive 45 min-1 hour...

Mitzi Bishi · November 2011

What heavy news and then to go back to work?! I'm thinking of you guys. This is so difficult.

The bright side is your doc sounds like he genuinely is looking deeper and trying to find the cause of things. I hope your new clinic is able to find some answers for you and get you pregnant.

We're also thinking about changing REs. I'm impressed yours even got you in so soon. Our last WTF resulted in waiting a month for the appointment, an hour in the waiting room, and then being told 'these things happen.'

Hang in there, Hootie! I'm sending you lots of thoughts and hugs.

Jezebell26 · November 2011

limpetfan:
hootie123:
Jezebell26:
hootie123:
Jezebell26:

First off i want to send giant huge enormous hugs to you and DH!!!!!!!!!

I am sorry he didnt have many other answers for you. I def recommend a second opinion and a fresh pair of eyes to look over all of your testing and cycles and so on. I would also be interested to know the name of the clinic in NJ they recommended, as I am in a similar situation and have been referred a few places that do PGD but have been also told to go to other places, that also do it. I am not sure if insurance covers PGD or not but it is definitely something im bringing up.

I really hope your new drs provide some insight and that you and YH come to terms with what your next steps are. Wishing you the best dear!!! *hugs*

Thanks Jezebell - I didn't write it down but I still remembered it - he told us St. Barnabas https://www.sbivf.com/

OMG Thats where im going!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This group will be my 2nd opinion!!! How far are you from any of their offices? Would you be able to see them? They have come highly recommended to me and I have read through their website with a fine tooth comb and I feel pretty confident they will be able to help me, and you!!!!!!!!!

He told me they were the best!!! I'm in western New York - its a good 8-9 hrs away at least. I'm switching to a clinic in Rochester though. I really hope they work out for you!!

This place is about an hour and a half for me... hmm.... I already drive 45 min-1 hour...

Apparently it is worth looking in to!!! I am going to the Hoboken office because that is closest to me but they have i think 5 offices. Go through their website and see what you think. I was impressed by how much info is on there that I feel confident they will get me and keep me pregnant! Id love to know someone else going to the same clinic!

hootie123 · November 2011

Mitzi Bishi:

What heavy news and then to go back to work?! I'm thinking of you guys. This is so difficult.

The bright side is your doc sounds like he genuinely is looking deeper and trying to find the cause of things. I hope your new clinic is able to find some answers for you and get you pregnant.

We're also thinking about changing REs. I'm impressed yours even got you in so soon. Our last WTF resulted in waiting a month for the appointment, an hour in the waiting room, and then being told 'these things happen.'

Hang in there, Hootie! I'm sending you lots of thoughts and hugs.

Thanks Mitzi - thinking of you too! My office is very good about getting appts with the RE after a failed cycle - the nurse even said - they don't like to have you wait more than a week. Also - they keep the Dr. on such a schedule that we didn't even have to wait to see him. I actually really like him - so I'm sad to leave - but I really have no other choice at this point.

limpetfan · November 2011

Jezebell26:
limpetfan:
hootie123:
Jezebell26:
hootie123:
Jezebell26:

First off i want to send giant huge enormous hugs to you and DH!!!!!!!!!

I am sorry he didnt have many other answers for you. I def recommend a second opinion and a fresh pair of eyes to look over all of your testing and cycles and so on. I would also be interested to know the name of the clinic in NJ they recommended, as I am in a similar situation and have been referred a few places that do PGD but have been also told to go to other places, that also do it. I am not sure if insurance covers PGD or not but it is definitely something im bringing up.

I really hope your new drs provide some insight and that you and YH come to terms with what your next steps are. Wishing you the best dear!!! *hugs*

Thanks Jezebell - I didn't write it down but I still remembered it - he told us St. Barnabas https://www.sbivf.com/

OMG Thats where im going!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This group will be my 2nd opinion!!! How far are you from any of their offices? Would you be able to see them? They have come highly recommended to me and I have read through their website with a fine tooth comb and I feel pretty confident they will be able to help me, and you!!!!!!!!!

He told me they were the best!!! I'm in western New York - its a good 8-9 hrs away at least. I'm switching to a clinic in Rochester though. I really hope they work out for you!!

This place is about an hour and a half for me... hmm.... I already drive 45 min-1 hour...

Apparently it is worth looking in to!!! I am going to the Hoboken office because that is closest to me but they have i think 5 offices. Go through their website and see what you think. I was impressed by how much info is on there that I feel confident they will get me and keep me pregnant! Id love to know someone else going to the same clinic!

I think I'd have to be seen in Livingston, I just checked my insurance to see if these guys are covered. My DH is seeing a urologist tomorrow about his issues, so depending on how that goes, we just might consult with this place. The only other good recommendation I got was SIRM! It would definitely be nice to know someone at the same clinic

tst1998 · November 2011

Ah hootie, I'm so sorry that you didn't get better news at your WTF. I'm glad you are getting a second opinion. This is a lot of information to digest based on one guy's opinion. Medicine is so much more art than science, it's hard to know what to do with all the information that gets thrown at us. Hopefully your 2nd opinion RE helps you guys find a new plan that you are happy with.

Thinking of you.

kz's_girlygirl · November 2011

I'm so sorry that there aren't any real answers. I can imagine that making the choice to use donor sperm is a really difficult one to make.

FWIW, DH doesn't have anything wrong with his sperm (that we know of, he hasn't had any testing beyond the S/A) but, what you described as far as growing abnormalities after day 3 is one of the ways my particular genetic anomoly presents itself. If we can ever afford to do IVF, this is one of the ways our geneticist said we can tell whether or not the embryo has the same defect.

I hope your new RE has some good information for you, and maybe even some good news. A fresh pair of eyes can sometimes be a really good thing. Thinking of you and YH.

machole513 · November 2011

I'm so sorry to hear you didnt get too many helpful answers at your last appt. That sure is a lot of info in one appt! I believe we go to the same office..not sure if we have the same doctor though. He has mentioned to us if my DH MFI doesnt improve we will likely need to move on to IVF.....but I do have to say I have heard woderful things about the Rocheter clinic..one of my good friends went there and was able to achieve a pegnancy on a second IUI. She said she loved it there..just not the drive! You and your H will be in my thoughts and prayers and I'll be looking to wait and see what the new RE says. Good luck!

SMF&ADS091507 · November 2011

Wow, that's a lot of information and discussion. Hopefully your second opinion will go well and a great new plan is put in place. GL!!

kathrynlo · November 2011

Oh Hootie (((HUGE HUGS)))!! That is so much to take in all at once and then have to discuss. I really hope that your second opinion in Rochester goes really well and you get a great plan in place!

sbrowns08 · November 2011

Oh C. I am so sorry about the news. I hope that strong can make a great plan for you. I hope they are willing to try thinking out of the box. Are you going to have a sperm frag test? I apologize if you answered this in the responses, I'm on my phone and haven't read through them all yet. I'm thinking of you. Huge ((hugs))

hootie123 · November 2011

sbrowns08:
Oh C. I am so sorry about the news. I hope that strong can make a great plan for you. I hope they are willing to try thinking out of the box. Are you going to have a sperm frag test? I apologize if you answered this in the responses, I'm on my phone and haven't read through them all yet. I'm thinking of you. Huge ((hugs))

He didn't think we needed it! I'm not going to give up trying another IVF with our sperm unless Strong is adamantly against it. I'm even considering getting a third opinion at this point.

My husband is really upset about this - and doesn't even want to consider donor sperm right now.

sbrowns08 · November 2011

hootie123:
sbrowns08:
Oh C. I am so sorry about the news. I hope that strong can make a great plan for you. I hope they are willing to try thinking out of the box. Are you going to have a sperm frag test? I apologize if you answered this in the responses, I'm on my phone and haven't read through them all yet. I'm thinking of you. Huge ((hugs))
He didn't think we needed it! I'm not going to give up trying another IVF with our sperm unless Strong is adamantly against it. I'm even considering getting a third opinion at this point.
My husband is really upset about this - and doesn't even want to consider donor sperm right now.

We haven't had the frag test but my re expressed concerns about this based on our previous MFI issues. We have already decided we will do as many IVFs with DHs sperm as we can afford, even if sperm frag is an issue. Please keep me updated and I am thinking if you as you move forward with these tough decisions...

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